I hate being constantly reminded of people's ignorance: Help Needed

Azwed

Invading Poland
Joined
Apr 9, 2000
Posts
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First, I am going to show the article that this particular letter to the editor is in response to then I will show the letter itself. I can't link to this article because my university's paper only keeps the current days paper. I also plan to invite the person who wrote this letter to the editor to Lit and don't want to have his real name seen.

I had to manualy copy this from the hard copy of the newspaper since it is no longer avaliable online. All typos are my doing.

Bible urges tolerance, scholar says


The rev. Tricia Dykers Koenig presented views on the Bible's interpretation of homosexuality last night in McBryde Hall. Koenig is the national organizer for the Covenant Network of Presbyterians, a group working to make homosexuality more widely accepted in the Presbyterian Church.

The question that persists in the church is whether or not homosexuality can be a part of a Christian lifestyle, Koenig said. Contraty to the beliefs of many high-profile religious figures such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, Koenig said she believes the church ought to encourage long-terms comitted relationships for everyone, regardless of sexual orientation.

"I don't believe scripture condemns the topic we are dealing with,"she said. The negative views of prominent church officials like Falwell and Robertson are detrimental to the Convent Network's cause, Koneig said. "The presumption that homosexuality behavior is always wrong does extreme damage,"she said.

The way homosexuality is percevied in society is often very negative because people often fear what they do not understand, she said. Churches in other parts of the world, particularly in Western Europe, have made many advancements in accepting homosexuals into the church.

Many Audience members said Koenig's presentation provided a refreshing perspective on the controversial issue of homosexuality and Christanity. "It was certainly and interesting talk and I learned a lot about biblical perspectives and points of view that we may not hear everyday," said Rivers Lamba a senior areospace engineering major.

However, others believed that Koenig's arguments were incomplete and did not covera all of the spirtiual doctrines concerning homosexuality. "She talked about love but not the holiness," said Laura Carter Childress, a junior human services major. Koneig also said the Bible contains many lawas and codes, includings those about homosexuality, which may not be valid today.


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Here is the letter to the editor.

Church should not be tolerant of homosexuals


There are a few things in the Bible that urge against homosexuality, or even sin in general, that need to get brought up. Romans 1:25-27 says: “(They) exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions.

For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men
committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.”

Now, the Church needs to be mindful that sin is sin and everyone on earth is a sinner (Romans 3:23). It’s not our job to judge people, but it is our job — our calling — to teach people the truth.
The Church should open its doors to all people since we are all sinners, but once that person comes in the door we cannot accept the fact that he or she is not willing to give up their sin to live for God. That’s against everything the Bible teaches. Sin is simply not doing the will of God.

Jesus came to earth to save us because we do sin, we do “fall short of the glory of God.” We will never be perfect, without sin — that is what the grace of God is for. This does not, however,
encourage us to sin because the grace is there (Romans 6).

This is how the Church needs to view sin, which includes the topic at hand of homosexuality. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says: “Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor
sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”


To put it all in context, when it says “homosexuals,” it is referring to those who submit to, or tolerate, homosexuals; the word “sodomite” refers to male homosexuals. I think it’s clear from this verse that we should not tolerate Christians who are homosexual (just like we shouldn’t tolerate any kind of sin within the Church).

If you are not Christian and you are homosexual (sinner), the church does accept you. You have the opportunity to become a child of God. But once you become a Christian, you are a new
creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), which means that you in your life. Grace covers everything, but our faith in Christ is shown by our good works. The Bible makes it clear that homosexuality is not
a “good work” of God. Homosexuality is sexual immorality.

It is not normal by any standard. If you are a Christian and think that it is okay that you’re still a homosexual, I would start to question your faith. Christians should hate sin. It’s time that Christians have the courage to stick up for God and His word; we aren’t trying to please people, we’re pleasing God. Truth can hurt, but I’m not going to make it wishwashy just to please people.
 
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The letter writer appears to have selected the Homophobe Platter from the Bible Buffet.

I suggest you find him and sodomize him on the church steps, pronto.

Lance
 
I pretty much know what I would like to say in reply to this letter but I would like some Bible quotes to counter balance his.

I know the bible somewhat but I am not nearly familar enough to know where to look for the right quotes.
 
Az, some people believe so strongly in thier believes that nothing you say or do is going to change thier opinions. The letter writer is never going to be convinced that the Bible is any thing other than black and white LAW.
 
cybergirly1989 said:
Az, some people believe so strongly in thier believes that nothing you say or do is going to change thier opinions. The letter writer is never going to be convinced that the Bible is any thing other than black and white LAW.

I figure that is probably true but you can't let hate just stand like that without standing up to it. No, matter if the hate is merely implied, as it is for the most part in that letter, because there where always be some other ignorant fuck that will buy the hate hook, line and sinker.
 
I found this letter written to Dr. Laura. I would like to hear how the letter writer would answer the questions it presents.

It was originally published in The Catalyst (Salt Lake City) August 24, 2000

Dear Dr. Laura, Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding Gods law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how best to follow them. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Edxodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10) it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I dont agree. Can you settle this? Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that Gods word is eternal and unchanging.

-- Jd August 22, 2000
 
*giggles*

That may be the better response, rather than directly responding to the issue of homosexuality.
 
There was an epiosode of the West Wing a couple of seasons ago that borrowed heavily from that letter.

Very great speech given by Sheen.
 
Azwed said:
There was an epiosode of the West Wing a couple of seasons ago that borrowed heavily from that letter.

Very great speech given by Sheen.

I was actually thinking of that episode, when I went looking for the letter.
 
Azwed said:
Bump

Where is Todd, STG and co when you need them.

I can write you up or point you to verses for tolerance toward the homosexual {sinner} while not being tolerant of thier homosexuality {sin}

the old sad "love the sinner, but hate the sin " sermon I tried, to explain once or twice here but was often shot down with out even being read
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:
I can write you up or point you to verses for tolerance toward the homosexual {sinner} while not being tolerant of thier homosexuality {sin}

the old sad "love the sinner, but hate the sin " sermon I tried, to explain once or twice here but was often shot down with out even being read

That would be quiet helpful Todd.

I don't think I could ever get the that sermon though at least not when applied to homosexuality. Your sexuality goes along way to defining what you are and is not something that can just be changed. If you hate something that makes up a large part of that persons being then you hate them.
 
See what is difficult here Az, is that quoting the bible isn't going to help. The bible has loop holes in it for everything, simply based on the what is 'right' or 'natural', as described by the men who interpreted and translated it, and in my opinion practically re-wrote itthe bible.

See, the first biblical quote used by this letter writer deems homosexuality as unnatural, which science has proven to be very much the contrary. The aruguement that it is unnatural is total crap but it still floats. Why so, I wonder? There is clear evidence that it is very natural. So? They fail to see the real truth because they believe that some inapplicable bunch of ancient rhetoric is the only truth in life, and that is as narrow as it gets. That is where this mentality stems from. Narrow perspective= inapplicability to all of life's facets.


If they are committed to teaching the truth, they'll stop spreading lies and stop ignoring science.

But, good luck with that because that isn't going to happen anytime soon. People are blind to the truth if it suits thier beliefs to ignore reality, even if you have all the evidence in the world to show them. I can't say there is anything in the bible that will really help you with this though, but I am not versed in it to say so either way.

Science is your best bet.
 
I forgot to add that the newest biological evidence that homosexuals have different biological development of the brain than straight people, alone, is enough of a reason to these people to stop acting like it is something that can be changed in a person, and that it is supposedly unnatural.


Gotta stop. For a second there I felt like I was actually starting to rant.
 
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I too have seen the research you speak of oh wonderful Starfish and agree that it could probably help some.

I emailed this guy and invited him here but he has not shown up yet. I must say it is very rude of him not to at least reply back to me with a polite refusal.
 
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