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CordeAmare
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RejectReality
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Non-con is a touchy category with a split readership. You have people who will complain about reluctance/blackmail because it's too soft, and people who will complain about any story where the victim doesn't surrender and have the most intense orgasm of her life.
It's one of the genres on Lit where the odds are strongly in favor of negative commentary.
It's one of the genres on Lit where the odds are strongly in favor of negative commentary.
Serafina1210
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I don't hang out in the NonConsent category, so I don't know its ways. But I'm not surprised if a story like yours was divisive. (I thought it was pretty hot, but then I know the difference between fantasy and reality.)
I notice that you've gotten more than ten thousand views in a day and thirteen favorites. Look on the bright side and give yourself a pat on the back!
I notice that you've gotten more than ten thousand views in a day and thirteen favorites. Look on the bright side and give yourself a pat on the back!
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JAMESBJOHNSON
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As I usta say to my patients: MOST OF THE SHIT WE LIKE HURTS OR KILLS US.
allamagione
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Good Lord! You got 5 stars from me. That's exactly what I enjoy in noncon stories. The menace, the violence, the desire yet total disregard for the victim.
But yeah, it's a contentious category. Expect vicious comments.
But yeah, it's a contentious category. Expect vicious comments.
dr_mabeuse
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I haven't posted in a while, but it was always my understanding that Lit didn't handle rape at all. The line between non-consent (which they do publish) and rape can be hard to define, but your story has a lot more violence than sex, so maybe that was a problem.
You also want to stay away from Second Person ("I-you") voice, which is a sign of the amateur or lazy or inept writer. Try first person ("I-he") or Third ("He-she"), which will make yu write more descriptively and sound more like a real writer.
You also want to stay away from Second Person ("I-you") voice, which is a sign of the amateur or lazy or inept writer. Try first person ("I-he") or Third ("He-she"), which will make yu write more descriptively and sound more like a real writer.
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CordeAmare
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lovecraft68
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The reason is simple. Mixing reluctance and non con is nothing short of idiotic. They are apples and oranges.
Of course reluctance fans will not like flat out rape they want some sleazy circumstance to force a person into sex, but eventually start to like it.
Rape fans will not like anything short of rape. If the person enjoys it, it defeats the sadistic pleasure of the rape so....
They should be two categories and that would help both "factions" read what they like and not have to pick and choose and read stuff that is not to their taste.
Also just so you know there is an alleged rule here that says the victim needs to enjoy it at some point, meaning your story broke that rule and that might also be why you are getting a little heat.
I'm not saying that to make you worry, the rule is a joke so write as you will, I ma just mentioning it as another reason you might get some crap.
Of course reluctance fans will not like flat out rape they want some sleazy circumstance to force a person into sex, but eventually start to like it.
Rape fans will not like anything short of rape. If the person enjoys it, it defeats the sadistic pleasure of the rape so....
They should be two categories and that would help both "factions" read what they like and not have to pick and choose and read stuff that is not to their taste.
Also just so you know there is an alleged rule here that says the victim needs to enjoy it at some point, meaning your story broke that rule and that might also be why you are getting a little heat.
I'm not saying that to make you worry, the rule is a joke so write as you will, I ma just mentioning it as another reason you might get some crap.
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allamagione
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lovecraft68
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By rights you are not supposed to.
The rule is here
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175666
last part
Added by Laurel for clarification: While we do accept submissions with graphic violence, we don't accept "snuff" - i.e. death & extreme torture with the aim of sexual titillation. We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and /or permanently physically harmed/abused.
So if the "victim" does not at some point get into it, it is flat out rape and supposedly not allowed here
But as I said, the rule is a freakin joke. You will find countless rape stories here so don't worry about it. The site made the rule as some CYA in case any trouble ever comes of site content, this way they can blame authors for being sneaky rather than their laziness to enforce anything.
lovecraft68
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RejectReality
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The problem with second person is you're assigning reactions to the reader that may run contrary to how they actually react. Every time someone hits one of those speed-bumps, you stand a chance of losing them.
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CordeAmare
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lovecraft68
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Something else to take into consideration is you are fairly new. This is your third story.
This is important because the longer you write here and the more stories you post the faster you get a fan base and a name for yourself
For example, the people who liked this story will continue to check out your new ones. Fav you, give you high marks and the more of those you have the better chance at a good score because they negate trolls.
Also on the flip side the people who did not like this one will most likely not look at your next one because your style is not for them. One less reader, but one less bad vote or nasty remark.
My first two stories here (a BDSM and a fetish) are my lowest and looking at some other author pages that seems a fairly common occurrence.
So stick with it and write what you want to. There is an audience for everything here and the more you put yourself out there the faster they will find you.
This is important because the longer you write here and the more stories you post the faster you get a fan base and a name for yourself
For example, the people who liked this story will continue to check out your new ones. Fav you, give you high marks and the more of those you have the better chance at a good score because they negate trolls.
Also on the flip side the people who did not like this one will most likely not look at your next one because your style is not for them. One less reader, but one less bad vote or nasty remark.
My first two stories here (a BDSM and a fetish) are my lowest and looking at some other author pages that seems a fairly common occurrence.
So stick with it and write what you want to. There is an audience for everything here and the more you put yourself out there the faster they will find you.
sr71plt
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Fuck the comments and any negative votes. I gave it a 5. I rarely see a story here that can actually do second person, let alone sustain it, and you did.
Also, is this meant to be unisex? If not, it seems to be, with just one questionable bit. If it was meant to be, kudos with managing it so well. I read it as being unisex. It has the protagonist wearing boxers and a shirt, which are generally thought of as male. While invoking the possibility of male (which is clever, if you meant it), however, you had explained why they could be on a female. But for me it signaled a possible "either way" study, which flipped it up the scale in my estimation. The only slip I see on unisex is that you had the protagonist getting wet. That's female. For unisex, you could have avoided it.
If not unisex, it could have been made hotter by use of unambiguous words and images, but would have value for me was the possibility that it was a study in "either/or."
As far as the nonconsent, I didn't see anything in it that closed out on the protagonist not consenting to this relationship. So, I think any that see either rape or nonconsent are reading more into it than is in it.
Since I wanted to take it as a unisex study and because it held second person faithfully, I gave it top marks.
Also, is this meant to be unisex? If not, it seems to be, with just one questionable bit. If it was meant to be, kudos with managing it so well. I read it as being unisex. It has the protagonist wearing boxers and a shirt, which are generally thought of as male. While invoking the possibility of male (which is clever, if you meant it), however, you had explained why they could be on a female. But for me it signaled a possible "either way" study, which flipped it up the scale in my estimation. The only slip I see on unisex is that you had the protagonist getting wet. That's female. For unisex, you could have avoided it.
If not unisex, it could have been made hotter by use of unambiguous words and images, but would have value for me was the possibility that it was a study in "either/or."
As far as the nonconsent, I didn't see anything in it that closed out on the protagonist not consenting to this relationship. So, I think any that see either rape or nonconsent are reading more into it than is in it.
Since I wanted to take it as a unisex study and because it held second person faithfully, I gave it top marks.
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JAMESBJOHNSON
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Seems lame and boring to me.
allamagione
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Agreed.
I'm not a fan of second person POV. But I'm also not a fan of hard-and-fast writing rules, and I thought you pulled it off well here, CordeAmare.
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CordeAmare
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sr71plt
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I'm looking at it as a literary effort/technique and content study, not a vote getter. All you needed to have done is not use the "wet" image (it's not significant to the story) in just one place, and you've got a study in "either/or." And it would be playing a major bisexual theme of sex is sex is sex. When you are talking literary exploration, who gives a flying fuck what the general level of the Literotica readership cares? Truth be told, you lost the general readership just by using second person.
(So, no, I wouldn't have had the concern you voice in the OP at all.)
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Addicted2Writing
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Don't let it get you down
Corde....I don't read reluctance/non-con simply for the reason of rape scenarios. It's not my thing. But I would read it if it were a reluctance story, which to me isn't exactly rape.
I've been on here for over 6 months, most in BDSM, and believe me, you are not the only one that gets negative comments. I've been chastised over the main male being a dickhead, and even more so because the main male had ONE drink after work. It was too funny when they referred me to an AA website! I've actually been harassed: having rec'd a comment, I replied, they in turn sent me a personal email.
Seriously, you have the option to delete nasty comments, but remember: sometimes nasty can be constructive.
What I've learned is I write because I need to get the story out. You have to remember you're writing because you enjoy it, right?
If you've gotten so many favorites, then continue writing. I've had to tell myself I'm writing for the ones that DO enjoy my story, not the douch bags who give me a -1- because they don't like the main character, or "check to see what others think even though I don't read it." Yep, actually had that comment.
So keep on doing your thing, and write for the readers that like and appreciate your writing!!
a fellow writer
Corde....I don't read reluctance/non-con simply for the reason of rape scenarios. It's not my thing. But I would read it if it were a reluctance story, which to me isn't exactly rape.
I've been on here for over 6 months, most in BDSM, and believe me, you are not the only one that gets negative comments. I've been chastised over the main male being a dickhead, and even more so because the main male had ONE drink after work. It was too funny when they referred me to an AA website! I've actually been harassed: having rec'd a comment, I replied, they in turn sent me a personal email.
Seriously, you have the option to delete nasty comments, but remember: sometimes nasty can be constructive.
What I've learned is I write because I need to get the story out. You have to remember you're writing because you enjoy it, right?
If you've gotten so many favorites, then continue writing. I've had to tell myself I'm writing for the ones that DO enjoy my story, not the douch bags who give me a -1- because they don't like the main character, or "check to see what others think even though I don't read it." Yep, actually had that comment.
So keep on doing your thing, and write for the readers that like and appreciate your writing!!
a fellow writer
Addicted2Writing
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Oh...and also...
...ignore JamesBJohnson's comments!! He is a mean rattlesnake, to be put kindly. I've gotten after him defending myself for something stupid he said...and trust me, he says a LOT of stupid things.
**Preparing for another battle of words**
...ignore JamesBJohnson's comments!! He is a mean rattlesnake, to be put kindly. I've gotten after him defending myself for something stupid he said...and trust me, he says a LOT of stupid things.
**Preparing for another battle of words**
TamLin01
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If you write edgy content there will always be a few people who get offended. Many great writers of the past considered the occasional offended reader a mark of pride and an indicator of quality. My advice: Best not to think much of it. If this is the material you want to write, it's bound to happen again.
As for the story itself I find it a compelling enough subject, but your prose is underdeveloped. I see you've only begun submitting material to the site in the last couple of weeks. I don't know if that means you're entirely new to writing in earnest or just new to this particular venue, but this story feels like the work of someone still unused to her own voice. Just to single out an example off the cuff, let's take this 'graph:
"The water is soothing against your skin, and you feel the come that's dried in between your legs slowly begin to be washed away. Your momentary peace is interrupted when you feel him come up behind you in the shower. He slides the door shut."
If I were your editor, I'd advise you to cut down on the "to be" verbs as much as possible, in this case "is." "Is" tends to create weak clauses and sentences. It's hard not to use it (look at how many times I've done it just writing this comment), but whenever you can use something else, you probably should. For example, we could say that the water "felt soothing." Really, that's what you're saying anyway, right? To say that "the water is soothing" is to describe a tactile sensation. So why not use the verb that means that specific thing: felt. Doesn't that just sound better? There are plenty of places in a story where you can't help but use the necessary evil "is," to to use "felt" or any other word in its place when you can adds variety, tangibility, and spice.
Similarly, to say that "Your momentary peace is interrupted when you feel him come up behind you" is wordy and passive (yes, I just used another "is" myself. Nobody said this would be easy). If we instead said, "He interrupts your peace by coming up behind you," that's both a more active sentence, a shorter one, and again puts the verb that matters up front where it belongs instead of the redundant "is." Honestly, it's still not a great sentence, but I would call it a better one.
Speaking of redundancy (sorry, I'll stop picking on you in a minute, I promise), several creeping redundancies pop up in just these couple of sentences. Do we really have to say, for example, that the water is "soothing against your skin"? Can't we just say "the water is soothing" (or better yet, "the water feels soothing")? After all, the reader knows that water contacts the skin in a shower and that the skin is the organ of touch. What else is the water even going to soothe? Our voice?
Now, this being an erotic story, perhaps we want to go out of our way to mention the naked skin, to put more emphasis on it. Fair enough, but I think that the shower as a setting does that very well all on its own, and that the events that will transpire in just a minute will put the reader in mind of it even more. If you trust your reader, you'll end up trusting your writing.
Another redundancy: "You feel him come up behind you in the shower." Well of course he's in the shower when he comes up behind the second-person character. "You" are in the shower already, so where the hell else is he going to be? We can just say, "You feel him come up behind you" (or better yet, "He comes up behind you,") and get the same job done in fewer words. And on top of that we have the business of closing the door in the very next sentence, which establishes the sense of place again, just in case there are any (very strange) people out there still unclear on where we were.
Whew, get all that? I know it seems like a lot, but these are all normal problems that every writer struggles with. The way to resolve them is to write more, read more, and listen more, all things you probably want to do anyway. Keep writing. Let us see more of your stuff. Good luck with everything. And don't let the critics get you down.
As for the story itself I find it a compelling enough subject, but your prose is underdeveloped. I see you've only begun submitting material to the site in the last couple of weeks. I don't know if that means you're entirely new to writing in earnest or just new to this particular venue, but this story feels like the work of someone still unused to her own voice. Just to single out an example off the cuff, let's take this 'graph:
"The water is soothing against your skin, and you feel the come that's dried in between your legs slowly begin to be washed away. Your momentary peace is interrupted when you feel him come up behind you in the shower. He slides the door shut."
If I were your editor, I'd advise you to cut down on the "to be" verbs as much as possible, in this case "is." "Is" tends to create weak clauses and sentences. It's hard not to use it (look at how many times I've done it just writing this comment), but whenever you can use something else, you probably should. For example, we could say that the water "felt soothing." Really, that's what you're saying anyway, right? To say that "the water is soothing" is to describe a tactile sensation. So why not use the verb that means that specific thing: felt. Doesn't that just sound better? There are plenty of places in a story where you can't help but use the necessary evil "is," to to use "felt" or any other word in its place when you can adds variety, tangibility, and spice.
Similarly, to say that "Your momentary peace is interrupted when you feel him come up behind you" is wordy and passive (yes, I just used another "is" myself. Nobody said this would be easy). If we instead said, "He interrupts your peace by coming up behind you," that's both a more active sentence, a shorter one, and again puts the verb that matters up front where it belongs instead of the redundant "is." Honestly, it's still not a great sentence, but I would call it a better one.
Speaking of redundancy (sorry, I'll stop picking on you in a minute, I promise), several creeping redundancies pop up in just these couple of sentences. Do we really have to say, for example, that the water is "soothing against your skin"? Can't we just say "the water is soothing" (or better yet, "the water feels soothing")? After all, the reader knows that water contacts the skin in a shower and that the skin is the organ of touch. What else is the water even going to soothe? Our voice?
Now, this being an erotic story, perhaps we want to go out of our way to mention the naked skin, to put more emphasis on it. Fair enough, but I think that the shower as a setting does that very well all on its own, and that the events that will transpire in just a minute will put the reader in mind of it even more. If you trust your reader, you'll end up trusting your writing.
Another redundancy: "You feel him come up behind you in the shower." Well of course he's in the shower when he comes up behind the second-person character. "You" are in the shower already, so where the hell else is he going to be? We can just say, "You feel him come up behind you" (or better yet, "He comes up behind you,") and get the same job done in fewer words. And on top of that we have the business of closing the door in the very next sentence, which establishes the sense of place again, just in case there are any (very strange) people out there still unclear on where we were.
Whew, get all that? I know it seems like a lot, but these are all normal problems that every writer struggles with. The way to resolve them is to write more, read more, and listen more, all things you probably want to do anyway. Keep writing. Let us see more of your stuff. Good luck with everything. And don't let the critics get you down.
sr71plt
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Unfortunately, leaning heavy on the "to be" construction goes with writing second person accurately. It's fine as a study POV, but it has more limitations than first or third voice and it makes the reader work harder than the other two. It gets tedious and "separating" very fast, so it's best to keep it short, which the OP did.
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