How to Show I Care and I've Changed?

[Lion_Roar]

First off I would like to say that I have enjoyed reading and lurking on posts here for the past couple of months. I haven’t contributed as I am not very good with writing or words for that matter. But who knows maybe this can help me start to break out of my shell. I also used a different name on this site. The name I used is the same name that I used for every other website I go on, and since I’ve decided to post here now, I’ve created a new one (so I don’t have to worry about friends google-ing my usual handle, and then it popping up on here). That is why my post count will be so low.

Now on to my dilemma:

I had been dating this wonderful woman named Kasey for over three years. Our relationship was fantastic. We loved a lot of the same things but we were different enough that we were able to learn from one another. It was a playful, fun, and close relationship. We made it through some truly tough times that involved family sickness. Sure we fought every once in a while just like all couples in a long term relationship. But we were never angry at each other for more than a day or two. We both wanted to move away from the more rural area we were in and live by a giant city. She had wanted to move there all her life and I had originally been from there and wanted to move back. We had talked about moving in together, our futures, and our options.
I moved away because I got a job offer in that city because I needed the money to start paying back my truly hefty amount of student loans. She was going to finish up her last year of school and move up here to find a job as well. We started our long distance relationship. We understood it would be hard, but we tried to visit each other at least once a month. When we did get to see each other it was great and we had a blast. The distance sucked and I missed her like crazy and she would cry when I had to leave her after one of our weekends. She was extremely lonely at school and had very intense semesters of college so she could graduate ASAP. I wound up hating my new job and found myself wishing I had never left. But I needed money and I figured I would tough it out for a while and gain some experience.

After this situation for about 6 months things really took a turn for the worse. I developed a bit of a health problem. It wasn’t anything life threatening but it was extremely painful. I have a pretty high threshold of pain and have broken a few bones, but I never felt anything like this. There were nights I couldn’t sleep at all and I would just go for a walk to try and take my mind off the pain. I was in physical therapy and was taking 13 pills a day of 5 different types of drugs. The pain coupled with my hatred of my new job left me miserable. After I would get off of work, I would take my pain killers and was basically just in a haze for the rest of the night. I started to gain weight from the meds and lack of activity. I got out of touch with friends because I was either in pain or high on the drugs. Luckily for me I had two great friends that would come over and hangout with me and on a few occasions, literally made me get out of the house and do something. I am forever grateful for them.

Needless to say I was not the best boyfriend during this time period. Over the next four months things with me and Kasey started to deteriorate. One of my closest friends Dane kept telling me to dump her and let her go. He kept telling me how she was being a complete bitch to me. I always defended her and chalked everything up to the bad situation we were in. She was lonely and extremely stressed and I was in pain or loopy. We needed each other but we both were so unhappy that we were not able to deliver what the other person needed. When we would talk, all we would do is fight. Even our visits (that got longer and longer between each one) were full of arguments. Then one day she called to let me know she got an internship she had really been hoping for. But her taking this opportunity would mean we would have to be apart for three or four more months. I got really angry and was so upset that we would stay away for longer. She started crying and eventually yelled “Why can’t you just be happy for me?” and then she hung up. That was the exact moment when I realized how bad things had become. I was instantly sorry and I told her how proud I was of her, how sorry I was, and how I wanted to try and work on our relationship, but it was all no use. She dumped me two days later.

As you can guess, I was deeply hurt and the next couple of weeks were awful. I eventually found out that after two weeks she was dating someone new. She was dating Dane. Dane had been a mutual friend of ours. I thought he was one of my best ones and was hoping he would be a great lifelong friend. As Kasey got more and more lonely and I got more and more distant, she turned to Dane as a friend. During this time, Dane started to fall in love with her and that is why he started trying to get me to break up with her. He eventually started pushing her to break up with me, and after the entire internship fiasco, she finally listened to him. He went down to her graduation a week later and then helped her get ready for her new internship. He was there for her while I wasn’t able to be. And they started dating.

Fast forward to now:

Kasey and Dane are still dating. I had tried to talk to Dane for months but he just kept blowing me off, and insisting that he did nothing wrong. Honestly, I really hope he gets hit by a bus or something. It sucks that someone I cared about so much as a friend really doesn’t give a damn about me. I was really hoping that their relationship would be a rebound. The relationship started out long distance where he would come down and visit her all the time. I guess I hope that once she gets to really know him she will see what kind of a jackass he is. He was terrible to his ex-girlfriend that he “loved” so much. He would constantly lie to her all of the time. He promised to stop doing drugs and smoking but then as soon as she would leave he would start doing them. He always lied to her family. He was very manipulative and used people for what he wanted but I always assumed that I knew him so well he would never act that way towards me (how wrong I was). He is very catty and gossipy. Unknown to me, but he would always call Kasey dumb and would say awful things about her behind our backs. He is a complete messy slob and acts extremely childish when things don’t go his way.

Over the five months we’ve been broken up I’ve overall become much better. My medical issue is much better and I am happy to say I don’t have to take a bunch of pills every day. About a month after the breakup I decided I didn’t want to take the steroids, pain killers, etc. anymore. I worked twice as hard on all my physical therapy and slowly learned to deal with and get over the pain. It felt so wonderful to have a clear mind again and to not be drowsy all the time. I became active again and started working out; I’ve lost 15 pounds and becoming stronger than I have ever been. I’ve reconnected with many of my friends and even some that I haven’t seen in years. I have taken up other hobbies such as reading, playing music, learning to cook. I’m really working hard on looking for a new job and I bought a car. I started meeting new people and have gone on a handful of dates (even gotten lucky on a couple occasions). Overall I think I’ve become stronger, more confident and a better person over the past few months.

Kasey and I keep in touch, a couple texts a week, maybe a phone call. I’ve only seen her once since we broke up and that was before I had found out about her and Dane. When we do talk she stays clear of talking about Dane at all because she knows I loathe him so. She just started a new job up here and she texted me the other day to let me know that she lives here now. I found out that she and Dane moved in together (from what I understand it is because she couldn’t afford her own place). She texted me the other day letting me know that she lives here now. She also informed me that she wanted to meet up and hang out. I asked her if she was doing this just to be nice and polite (since I was so devastated by the breakup) but she insisted that she did actually want to see me. So we are going out to dinner one day next week. I am just really curious as to how I should act in this situation. All I know is that I really miss her and would love to be back with her. I really think that a new relationship could be even better than the last one now that we both have grown a little. I will base what I do on what I find out from this dinner. I know I am a much better man than Dane is and I want the opportunity to show her that. I would like her to see that I have changed and grown. I think now that she will have to see Dane every day that eventually his true colors will show. I realize there will be a honey moon phase now that she is up here, but I believe after the grind starts and she has to put up with his bullshit she may realize he is a loser. I know I can’t make her love me again, but I can try to open the door for comparisons and feelings that were some of the best I’ve ever had. I have ideas but I want to find out more information from her first and see what all you nice people think.

I know a lot of you will tell me to move on since she dumped me, but I think the situation we were in was just so awful and I blame that for how things turned out. I know I made mistakes in the relationship and became complacent but I absolutely know I would regret not trying at least a little bit. I was just wondering if you have any tips or ideas for me to put my best face forward when I finally see her for the first time in months. I wouldn’t even mind being put in the “friend zone” just so we can become close again. I just really hope everything goes well and I plan to keep you informed if you happen to be interested!!! Even if you all think I'm crazy, it feels good to write this all down and let some people know.

-P.S. Wow this turned out a lot longer than I thought. Sorry about that, but I’ve found that details are everything. My sincere appreciation to those who took the time to read.

 

[blulilacgrl]

First off I would like to say that I have enjoyed reading and lurking on posts here for the past couple of months. I haven’t contributed as I am not very good with writing or words for that matter. But who knows maybe this can help me start to break out of my shell. I also used a different name on this site. The name I used is the same name that I used for every other website I go on, and since I’ve decided to post here now, I’ve created a new one (so I don’t have to worry about friends google-ing my usual handle, and then it popping up on here). That is why my post count will be so low.

Now on to my dilemma:

I had been dating this wonderful woman named Kasey for over three years. Our relationship was fantastic. We loved a lot of the same things but we were different enough that we were able to learn from one another. It was a playful, fun, and close relationship. We made it through some truly tough times that involved family sickness. Sure we fought every once in a while just like all couples in a long term relationship. But we were never angry at each other for more than a day or two. We both wanted to move away from the more rural area we were in and live by a giant city. She had wanted to move there all her life and I had originally been from there and wanted to move back. We had talked about moving in together, our futures, and our options.
I moved away because I got a job offer in that city because I needed the money to start paying back my truly hefty amount of student loans. She was going to finish up her last year of school and move up here to find a job as well. We started our long distance relationship. We understood it would be hard, but we tried to visit each other at least once a month. When we did get to see each other it was great and we had a blast. The distance sucked and I missed her like crazy and she would cry when I had to leave her after one of our weekends. She was extremely lonely at school and had very intense semesters of college so she could graduate ASAP. I wound up hating my new job and found myself wishing I had never left. But I needed money and I figured I would tough it out for a while and gain some experience.

After this situation for about 6 months things really took a turn for the worse. I developed a bit of a health problem. It wasn’t anything life threatening but it was extremely painful. I have a pretty high threshold of pain and have broken a few bones, but I never felt anything like this. There were nights I couldn’t sleep at all and I would just go for a walk to try and take my mind off the pain. I was in physical therapy and was taking 13 pills a day of 5 different types of drugs. The pain coupled with my hatred of my new job left me miserable. After I would get off of work, I would take my pain killers and was basically just in a haze for the rest of the night. I started to gain weight from the meds and lack of activity. I got out of touch with friends because I was either in pain or high on the drugs. Luckily for me I had two great friends that would come over and hangout with me and on a few occasions, literally made me get out of the house and do something. I am forever grateful for them.

Needless to say I was not the best boyfriend during this time period. Over the next four months things with me and Kasey started to deteriorate. One of my closest friends Dane kept telling me to dump her and let her go. He kept telling me how she was being a complete bitch to me. I always defended her and chalked everything up to the bad situation we were in. She was lonely and extremely stressed and I was in pain or loopy. We needed each other but we both were so unhappy that we were not able to deliver what the other person needed. When we would talk, all we would do is fight. Even our visits (that got longer and longer between each one) were full of arguments. Then one day she called to let me know she got an internship she had really been hoping for. But her taking this opportunity would mean we would have to be apart for three or four more months. I got really angry and was so upset that we would stay away for longer. She started crying and eventually yelled “Why can’t you just be happy for me?” and then she hung up. That was the exact moment when I realized how bad things had become. I was instantly sorry and I told her how proud I was of her, how sorry I was, and how I wanted to try and work on our relationship, but it was all no use. She dumped me two days later.

As you can guess, I was deeply hurt and the next couple of weeks were awful. I eventually found out that after two weeks she was dating someone new. She was dating Dane. Dane had been a mutual friend of ours. I thought he was one of my best ones and was hoping he would be a great lifelong friend. As Kasey got more and more lonely and I got more and more distant, she turned to Dane as a friend. During this time, Dane started to fall in love with her and that is why he started trying to get me to break up with her. He eventually started pushing her to break up with me, and after the entire internship fiasco, she finally listened to him. He went down to her graduation a week later and then helped her get ready for her new internship. He was there for her while I wasn’t able to be. And they started dating.

Fast forward to now:

Kasey and Dane are still dating. I had tried to talk to Dane for months but he just kept blowing me off, and insisting that he did nothing wrong. Honestly, I really hope he gets hit by a bus or something. It sucks that someone I cared about so much as a friend really doesn’t give a damn about me. I was really hoping that their relationship would be a rebound. The relationship started out long distance where he would come down and visit her all the time. I guess I hope that once she gets to really know him she will see what kind of a jackass he is. He was terrible to his ex-girlfriend that he “loved” so much. He would constantly lie to her all of the time. He promised to stop doing drugs and smoking but then as soon as she would leave he would start doing them. He always lied to her family. He was very manipulative and used people for what he wanted but I always assumed that I knew him so well he would never act that way towards me (how wrong I was). He is very catty and gossipy. Unknown to me, but he would always call Kasey dumb and would say awful things about her behind our backs. He is a complete messy slob and acts extremely childish when things don’t go his way.

Over the five months we’ve been broken up I’ve overall become much better. My medical issue is much better and I am happy to say I don’t have to take a bunch of pills every day. About a month after the breakup I decided I didn’t want to take the steroids, pain killers, etc. anymore. I worked twice as hard on all my physical therapy and slowly learned to deal with and get over the pain. It felt so wonderful to have a clear mind again and to not be drowsy all the time. I became active again and started working out; I’ve lost 15 pounds and becoming stronger than I have ever been. I’ve reconnected with many of my friends and even some that I haven’t seen in years. I have taken up other hobbies such as reading, playing music, learning to cook. I’m really working hard on looking for a new job and I bought a car. I started meeting new people and have gone on a handful of dates (even gotten lucky on a couple occasions). Overall I think I’ve become stronger, more confident and a better person over the past few months.

Kasey and I keep in touch, a couple texts a week, maybe a phone call. I’ve only seen her once since we broke up and that was before I had found out about her and Dane. When we do talk she stays clear of talking about Dane at all because she knows I loathe him so. She just started a new job up here and she texted me the other day to let me know that she lives here now. I found out that she and Dane moved in together (from what I understand it is because she couldn’t afford her own place). She texted me the other day letting me know that she lives here now. She also informed me that she wanted to meet up and hang out. I asked her if she was doing this just to be nice and polite (since I was so devastated by the breakup) but she insisted that she did actually want to see me. So we are going out to dinner one day next week. I am just really curious as to how I should act in this situation. All I know is that I really miss her and would love to be back with her. I really think that a new relationship could be even better than the last one now that we both have grown a little. I will base what I do on what I find out from this dinner. I know I am a much better man than Dane is and I want the opportunity to show her that. I would like her to see that I have changed and grown. I think now that she will have to see Dane every day that eventually his true colors will show. I realize there will be a honey moon phase now that she is up here, but I believe after the grind starts and she has to put up with his bullshit she may realize he is a loser. I know I can’t make her love me again, but I can try to open the door for comparisons and feelings that were some of the best I’ve ever had. I have ideas but I want to find out more information from her first and see what all you nice people think.

I know a lot of you will tell me to move on since she dumped me, but I think the situation we were in was just so awful and I blame that for how things turned out. I know I made mistakes in the relationship and became complacent but I absolutely know I would regret not trying at least a little bit. I was just wondering if you have any tips or ideas for me to put my best face forward when I finally see her for the first time in months. I wouldn’t even mind being put in the “friend zone” just so we can become close again. I just really hope everything goes well and I plan to keep you informed if you happen to be interested!!! Even if you all think I'm crazy, it feels good to write this all down and let some people know.

-P.S. Wow this turned out a lot longer than I thought. Sorry about that, but I’ve found that details are everything. My sincere appreciation to those who took the time to read.

Honey if she's calling you up to "hang out" trust me the bloom is off the rose with Dane.

But you need to think carefully about this. While I understand that you care for her. Can you trust her? The fact is she was swayed by some other guy, messed around on you and dumped you. Are you sure this is the person you want to be with? You can blame the situation for causing you guys stress but there are always going to be situations in a relationship. There will always be stress. Do you really want to have the added stress of worrying about whether she will stick it out with you every time something difficult comes along?

You need to think carefully about that and about whether or not you now want to play the 'Dane' role. She is upset and unhappy and has come running to you.

These are just my thoughts. And I am sure others will disagree. So take them for what they are worth.

Good luck to you.

 

[sweetsoccermom]

Hey there,

Thank you for being brave enough to tell your situation here ... I came here looking for advice, but your post sucked me in.

Blulilacgrl is right on. Now reading your story, seems your subject line should be different. Sounds like she needs to prove herself to you, too.

If you really want to try to work it out, maybe couples counseling would help.
Good luck to you with whatever you decide, and you are not crazy, just a man in love ... Your situation gave me some needed perspective, too, so thank you.

Honey if she's calling you up to "hang out" trust me the bloom is off the rose with Dane.

But you need to think carefully about this. While I understand that you care for her. Can you trust her? The fact is she was swayed by some other guy, messed around on you and dumped you. Are you sure this is the person you want to be with? You can blame the situation for causing you guys stress but there are always going to be situations in a relationship. There will always be stress. Do you really want to have the added stress of worrying about whether she will stick it out with you every time something difficult comes along?

You need to think carefully about that and about whether or not you now want to play the 'Dane' role. She is upset and unhappy and has come running to you.

These are just my thoughts. And I am sure others will disagree. So take them for what they are worth.

Good luck to you.

 

[SweetErika]

Honey if she's calling you up to "hang out" trust me the bloom is off the rose with Dane.

But you need to think carefully about this. While I understand that you care for her. Can you trust her? The fact is she was swayed by some other guy, messed around on you and dumped you. Are you sure this is the person you want to be with? You can blame the situation for causing you guys stress but there are always going to be situations in a relationship. There will always be stress. Do you really want to have the added stress of worrying about whether she will stick it out with you every time something difficult comes along?

You need to think carefully about that and about whether or not you now want to play the 'Dane' role. She is upset and unhappy and has come running to you.

These are just my thoughts. And I am sure others will disagree. So take them for what they are worth.

Good luck to you.

I'm not going to disagree AT ALL!

Lion, have you considered why Dane would support Kasey in having dinner and rekindling any type of relationship with you, especially given that he's such a jerk? If he's not aware, or Kasey is seeing you against his wishes, then I'd say Kasey is putting up another red flag regarding her trustworthiness. I get the impression you value honesty very highly, so think about whether you want to get involved with someone who was OK with going behind your back with your friend and is possibly not being honest with her current partner.

I also think it'd be very wise to consider what Dane might be capable of if he thinks you might be going behind his back and/or making a move on his girlfriend. You said he has a history of drug abuse, right? That, plus his demonstrated lack of ethics, tells me he may very well fly off the handle, act irrationally and even seek to harm you if he feels you're doing wrong by him. Tread so, so carefully here, buddy!

I'm going to agree with Blu about how many extreme difficulties there are in a LTR/marriage. You need a partner who will communicate, seek solutions with you and commit to your relationship when the going gets tough, not someone who's prone to jumping over to where the grass seems greener. Everyone responds differently to stress and people do make mistakes, but the way Kasey behaved and ended your relationship is really concerning. Think about all of the extreme challenges you'll likely face in your lifetime: financial troubles, issues with family members, health crises, raising children, sexual problems, losses, maybe infidelity; you need a partner who's committed to working through the worst circumstances with you, not look to jump ship when the going gets tough or seems impossible.


At any rate, if/when you see Kasey, I'd suggest simply being yourself and maybe apologizing for how you treated her/dealt with the situation when you were under so much stress (if you feel you need to do that for your own peace of mind). Don't try to prove yourself to her or try to win her over/back at all. Healthy women don't like even a hint of desperation. We DO like confidence and genuineness. Be who you are now and let her make the next move. Do NOT try to make any moves while she's involved with Dane. She would need to deal with that situation first, on her own, before you even consider dating her again.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Good story. Honestly, these long posts often resort to rambling and boredom, but that whole thing was a good read.

First off, congrats on getting your stuff together. Good on you, mate. Pain pills are a hell of a habit to kick, so good job.

I agree that there may be a couple of red flags with the girl. Does she have a history if this sort of behaviour? Like, sort of seeking a new guy when things go badly? If so, that's something to consider.

However, if you love her and you can say that she is truly what you want, fight your hardest for her. People aren't perfect and maybe she made a big mistake. Maybe there is more to it. Maybe she legitimately waited until after you were broken up to see Dane. Feelings may have developed whilst you were still together, but that doesn't mean she did anything wrong. I suppose we don't have enough information regarding that.

Maybe she realizes she made a mistake with Dane. His name IS Dane. That just sounds like shitty boyfriend material. (sorry to any Danes here, except if Dane Cook is here- that unfunny asshole) Maybe this is her way of reaching out. I don't know. But you have to fight to save things sometimes. Don't let her slip away. If she's worth it, fight. Let her know what she means to you. Don't assume she knows it. Bad situations can cause foggy lenses.

So yeah.

 

[subwannabe]

I would see how the dinner goes. If she brings up the fact that she wants to leave him and rekindle your romance then maybe it's worth a try. I wouldn't bring it up with her though, I would keep the ball in her court. If she doesn't offer the above then I would move on with your life and put her in the past. Don't stick around for months and months or even years, hoping she will dump him. It's not worth it.

 

[Ellafun]

You have worked so hard to get yourself to where you are now. Let her see the confident, genuinely hard-working guy that you have become. Let her know that you are perfectly capable of surviving without all her drama in your life, that you have made new friends, that you are succesful, wish her luck...and move on. That's my two cents.

 

[Lion_Roar]

Thanks for all the responses and support! I've read all of your advice and you guys have made some really good points. I've been on here for a while reading a lot of the sticky threads to make sure I don't piss anyone off. I'll be sure to respond to the rest of you after I meet up with friends at the gym, and then watch the Bears kick the crap out of the Packers!!!!

Blulilacgrl is right on. Now reading your story, seems your subject line should be different. Sounds like she needs to prove herself to you, too.

Ya know, I've been thinking about how to show her I'm a better man than Dane, but I never used the word prove until you mentioned it. That is absolutely the correct word for what I keep thinking about. And after you put it that way... it feels pretty silly. I don't really have to prove anything.

This isn't going to be popular but love doesn't conquer all. Sadly, some relationships end for reasons it's easy to forgive over time, but that doesn't mean they didn't end for good reasons.

If it was me, I would say goodbye, heal, and give myself the chance to find someone worthy of me and my trust.

But that's just me...

Wait, love doesn't conquer all? What can I say, I'm young and naive.
No, but I understand completely what you are saying. I have been meeting new people. Not just for a romantic sense but for a friendship sense too. If I'm too worried about her and what is going on then I probably won't leave much room for growth with a different woman. I guess that is why I want to meet up. If I can feel there are a lot of loose ends and strong thoughts, then I may try to work it out. If she is truly happy with D-bag Dane, then she may not be right for me if she can fall for such a guy.

I'm not going to disagree AT ALL!

Lion, have you considered why Dane would support Kasey in having dinner and rekindling any type of relationship with you, especially given that he's such a jerk? If he's not aware, or Kasey is seeing you against his wishes, then I'd say Kasey is putting up another red flag regarding her trustworthiness.

I understand the concern right there. I'm 90% certain that Dane knows we keep in contact. When Kasey found out that he was refusing to meet with me to talk things out, she urged him to meet up with me (under the promise of me not provoking a physical altercation). From the conversations I've had with her she sounds sincere in wanting to maintain a friendly relationship. Actually I almost hope that Dane doesn't approve of us being friends. He would either freak out and act childish, whining and complaining all the time. OR he would "forbid" her to be friends with me, and well, knowing Kasey.... that would be an awful idea on his part.

Your analysis on me highly valuing honesty is spot on. You make good points about how there are various intense stressors in life. We even tackled a couple you had mentioned. I feel (or at least think) that the 500 miles in between us was the reason why we were unable to work past the problems we had. But if there is a true form of commitment, that shouldn't be an excuse. I figure we both made mistakes and that is why I still am open to the idea of a new relationship. There are times I like to think I'm a magnificent god, but I'm pretty sure I'm only human, as is she.

 

[njlauren]

I can understand your wanting to get back together and I can never fault someone going where their heart tells them. That said, I would be really careful with Kasey, if it was me it would be a long time before I even entertained thoughts of trying to get back together with her after what happened. You two were separated, you had a medical condition and weren't in good shape, and she dropped you for a sleaze who was supposed to be a friend, she did this knowingly. It would be different if she had said enough and somewhere down the road she later ended up with a friend, but to go with a guy, live with him, after finding out he basically was advising you to dump her all the while pursuing her, doesn't make her sound all that attractive as a girlfriend. It isn't all that different then stories on lit where a friend tells a wife her husband has been cheating to get her pissed, so he can get her into bed as 'revenge', and then the wife leaving the husband for the 'friend' even after finding out he was lying.......

To be honest, I don't think you are the one who has to show anything, if she is interested in getting back with you the burden is on her, and you need to protect yourself. I know I sound cynical, but I would be really protective...for example, could she be wanting to see you again because she wants to move out of Dane's place and maybe sees you as a place to stay?

By all means get together and see what she has to say, that isn't a problem IMO, and see where she is coming from. Remember, she dumped you when things got rough, when you were sick, and took up with a dbag who she had to know was something of one, if he made moves on her when you guys were having problems, no real friend would ever do it and quite frankly she showed not only a lack of judgement but quite frankly a lack of respect for you by allowing him near her like that...just my opinion, but if that happened in my circle of friends both of them would be considered lower then dirt, him for doing it and her for letting him do it. If you think you still love her, then my advice is to let her show you the feelings are returned, if they are. I would be worried she is playing you off one another, or wants to use you in some way for the things that Mr. Wonderful doesn't give her, it wouldn't surprise me. If it were me, she would have a lot of explaining to do and apologizing, and if when you meet she dumps it all on you, because of the way you were (and I am not saying you were blameless, but that still doesn't mean she acted right), makes excuses, rather then genuinely seems sorry, I would finish the night, pay the check and say "sweetheart, it was nice seeing you, enjoy the rest of your life" and walk away, because that will tell you a lot about the way she feels about you. On the other hand, if she seems genuinely apologetic and is willing to shoulder the blame (after all, she dumped you, prob was cheating with him before she did so) or at least the part she should be, then maybe.

I really wish you well, I know what love feels like, I also know what it means to struggle in a relationship and to take body blows, so believe me I am on your side, I really hope this works, but as a mentor who taught me how to survive a bar fight, never lead with your chin or your heart

 

[Lion_Roar]

Pmann,

Thanks for thinking my post was a good read. I was afraid that it was so long that it would be boring and drawn out.

As far as I know this is the first time Kasey has exhibited this type of behavior and I don't think she has a history of acting this way. I believe I am willing to fight hard to work towards a better relationship. I'm just unsure as to how to go about it.

Maybe she realizes she made a mistake with Dane. His name IS Dane. That just sounds like shitty boyfriend material. (sorry to any Danes here, except if Dane Cook is here- that unfunny asshole).

Hey I used to like Dane Cook.... but then again that was when I was in like 8th grade. Hmmm I guess that means I have matured over the years. Yeah, he's totally an unfunny dickhead.

Also, your avatar is one of the funniest I have ever seen. Kudos.

 

[Lion_Roar]

njlauren,

You are right. As far as my future with Kasey goes I'm going to take this situation pretty slow for a while. I've done a bit of thinking and I don't think I am going to go the route of talking about the failure of our past relationship. I know that if we do become involved again that we will have to talk about it. But at this moment I think talking about everything on our first meeting could be detrimental. I have seen many times where one friend has attacked the integrity of another's boyfriend. Many of these times, it can push the couple together even more, and give them the "us against the world mentality". No one likes to hear that their friends think they've made a bad choice of a partner. So I will stay away from that.

I don't think she has realized what kind of ass Dane is yet. She hasn't been in a relationship where they see each other much, and she hasn't lived with him long yet. She started a new job that she likes, and has just moved to a new city that she has always dreamed of living in, and at the moment she likes her boyfriend. She is extremely excited, that may not equate to happiness, but excitement is a huge feeling to have. So even if Dane isn't everything she thought at the moment, I gather that she can see past it for the moment because everything is so new to her.

I believe everyone deserves a second chance. That doesn't mean she will get one in the form of a romantic relationship. In order to find out what kind of person she exactly is now, I should be her friend. Maybe she is a much better friend than a lover.

So I think the route to go now at this dinner is to establish a friendship. This will allow me to see her intentions. It will also let me see how her relationship with Dane goes after all the new relationship glitz and glamor wears off, her job and commute becomes a grind, and how our cold and snowy winters affect her. Without all the new excitement she may see things differently. Dane's massive flaws may start to show their ugly heads.

The three of us do have a few mutual friends. But a lot of them loathe them both now. The ones she misses the most are immensely upset with her, and entirely condemn him. We were all really close. We were neighbors in college for 4 years actually and our group of friends saw each other daily. Our friends are very upset with this current situation.

Again, I can speculate all I want for now, but I really won't know until we meet up. Plus my mind loves to run with ideas so everything can change. Also, thanks a ton for the good wishes. I will make sure to start protecting myself a little more and not to lead with my heart or chin.

 

[njlauren]

Lion-

Wow, your last post really knocked me out, that has to be one of the best thought out game plans I have heard from someone in your situation, wow. You are dead spot on with how to handle it when you meet, her, stay away from Dane, I wouldn't even bring him up and if she does, nod your head and say 'that's nice' or whatever innocuous you come up with. If you knock him she will see that exactly as you say, as a jealous attempt by you to try and get her back, etc, just stay away from the subject of him.

I like that you are talking about being friends, it sounds like quite frankly she is going to need a friend if your current circle of friends is shunning her (she is lucky, if this is when I was young many years ago, Dane would have faced a lot more then ostracism from some of my friends that these days is prob a class a felony. If she has truly moved on then maybe you can get closure and know where you stand, and if it seems like she is doing this to dump on you or otherwise use you, you are in the place it seems to be able to recognize it and walk out.

I have a favor to ask (which obviously I have no basis to ask), but when you do meet it would be interesting to see how it goes, relationship stuff like this fascinates me (maybe because I haven't figured it out either, if you don't post an update on here, would love to have a PM about what happens.

One piece of advice, if this ever seems like it might turn into a romantic relationship again, use what happened in the past to make a new relationship, make it a reconciliation, which means making it a totally new relationship, formed on new terms rather then trying to patch the past back together. You had a relatively nasty break as far as such things go, and the basis for that relationship could only create a bad new one, rebuild it (ya know, the bionic relationship, reference to a tv show that prob predates you by more then 10 years

 

[Lion_Roar]

Njlauren-

Some days I think with my brain, other days I think with my heart. My last post was definitely my brain's game plan, haha. It is good to hear that someone else thinks I have a good idea as to how I'm going about this. I'm not going to lie, I wanted to knock all hell out of Dane when I found out. I'm fairly certain he knew and that is why he didn't want to meet with me. A few of my friends have mentioned things along those lines as well, but I would rather not deal with cops, law suits, and the like. Plus, I did promise Kasey I wouldn't, and I keep my promises.

I would be happy to keep you updated and in the know about my current situation. I've received good advice and support and therefore believe you have a pretty good basis for asking. I agree with your last piece of advice. If the relationship does become one of romantic intent, it will absolutely be started over from square one. Trust will not just be handed out now due to our past (see protecting myself ).

 

[Lord Pmann]

When is this dinner supposed to happen?

 

[njlauren]

Njlauren-

Some days I think with my brain, other days I think with my heart. My last post was definitely my brain's game plan, haha. It is good to hear that someone else thinks I have a good idea as to how I'm going about this. I'm not going to lie, I wanted to knock all hell out of Dane when I found out. I'm fairly certain he knew and that is why he didn't want to meet with me. A few of my friends have mentioned things along those lines as well, but I would rather not deal with cops, law suits, and the like. Plus, I did promise Kasey I wouldn't, and I keep my promises.

I would be happy to keep you updated and in the know about my current situation. I've received good advice and support and therefore believe you have a pretty good basis for asking. I agree with your last piece of advice. If the relationship does become one of romantic intent, it will absolutely be started over from square one. Trust will not just be handed out now due to our past (see protecting myself ).

Getting revenge always sounds attractive and being half Italian, well, it can come naturally, but in reality it doesn't always work out so well (among other things, it is not unlikely your ex would assume if something happened to Dane it was you, and women don't forgive revenge all that well IME, even if they later realize the guy was a scum ball)....). Thing about someone like Dane, someday he is going to mess with the wrong person, someone who really is in a position to make his life a living hell, and you will probably hear about it. As far as Kasey goes, if she really is into this guy and he is as slimey as you make him out to be (I kind of wonder if she has the idiotic bad-boy thing going on with him, that is one of the great mysteries I have observed with women, where they complain how fucked up men are, but they are attracted to the very men that will treat them like dirt....), she is going to take a hit as bad or worse then you did; and at that point if you are still interested in her, she will understand how stupid she was in going with him like that (and if she shows interest in this scenario, you will be in the drivers seat in terms of creating a new relationship, if she knows she fucked up).

 

[Lion_Roar]

When is this dinner supposed to happen?

We've made plans to meet up this Friday.

 

[Lion_Roar]

Njlauren-

I understand your natural want of revenge from being half Italian. I've got a lot of German in me and that is where my stubbornness comes from . I know one day he is going to piss off the wrong person. It just might be a person who doesn't know restraint or care about the consequences to their actions (too bad some day isn't tomorrow). And people will get tired of his manipulating qualities and he will continue to lose people that have had enough of his shit.

 

[Lion_Roar]

So I am meeting up with Kasey for dinner on Friday at 7:00. I am a little nervous about it all. I just don't want to come away from the dinner feeling like an idiot. I would like to exude confidence and seem attractive (not just physically). I am happy with the person that I am, but any tips would be appreciated.

Also, what should I talk about? I'll ask her about her move, new job and if she likes it up here. Should I bring up old inside jokes we used to have, or should I completely stay away from bringing any old memories back (even good ones)? If she brings up Dane, I'll just smile and pretend it doesn't bug me. I know she doesn't have any friends up here and misses a lot of mine dearly. Should I bring them up in conversation?

I know it could get a little awkward, and I'm prepared for her to seem entirely happy. I just don't want to leave with her thinking "Damn am I glad I left that guy".

 

[subwannabe]

You've got to be yourself. You need to be confidant but avoid selling yourself or trying to project an image where you are the winner and he is the loser. Let nature take it's course. If it is meant to be it is meant to be, if not, then it isn't. I've often seen that if you have to fight hard for a woman then it probably isn't going to work out, whether you win or lose.

 

[sweetsoccermom]

Sending you good wishes ...

Hope it goes well for you, LR!

If I were in your shoes, I would try (but probably fail) to NOT reminisce or bring up old inside jokes. Sounds like you are in a great place, show her where you are and where you are going. Keep convo light - pop culture/ current events are probably safe!
Good luck to you

 

[mwmnpa]

As someone else said, see how dinner goes. Talk about her job, location etc. And then bring up the changes in your life - new hobbies, friends, etc. No need to reminisce, you've both been through too many changes.

You may not feel the same about her afterwards.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Best of luck Mate. Don't let her slip away. Do all that you can.

 

[Lion_Roar]

Thanks all! Will put your advice to use tomorrow.

 

[Lion_Roar]

Hello, update time:

So Kasey and I went out to dinner last night, and overall I think it was a pretty good thing. It wasn't very awkward and I gained a lot of information. It was great to talk to her again, I really have missed her and I have such an easy time connecting with her.

I asked her about how her move went and how she likes her new job. She has been pretty happy with it so far, but she lives in a shady area (cheap rent). I asked her how her family was doing and talked about them for a little (I got the feeling that she liked that I remembered a bit about them). She noticed that I had gotten in better shape and lost a bit of weight and complimented me on that (that felt really good). We spoke about some other things, hobbies, books, how we don't fully understand our smart phones. We talked about politics a little, but only because I know we have similar views and we would easily agree on it.

I did learn something interesting. Dane and her split rent on the apartment, but I'm not sure that he lives there yet. Kasey told me how his parents don't know that he has an apartment and that they would literally freak out if he had one. I always knew his parents were very religious and very controlling. I imagine they would freak out even more if they knew it was a one bedroom and that his girlfriend lived there too. So I don't know if he just stays there during the day and then goes home at night, or if he sneaks out at night to stay there. She sounded very perturbed and frustrated about his family in general (they are pretty damn weird) and didn't like how they were a little controlling towards her too. I think she is a little disappointed that he won't stand up to them. One of the things she liked about him originally was that he was "mature". So being 26, living at home and having super controlling parents kind of knocks him down a peg in that area. So that made me smile on the inside a little, or a lot . She asked that I don't do anything mean and tell his parents. I said I wouldn't.

She also told me a few other personal things, and that led me to believe she still has a pretty decent amount of trust in me. I let her know what was happening with some of our good friends. There was a lot she had been kept out of the loop on and many of them had gotten new apartments and jobs. She expressed that she missed a few of them very much, but was afraid that they hated her. I told her that they didn't hate her, but that they were a little upset with how everything turned out. I told her she should come hang around with us when we get together, cook a ton of great food, and then drink a little. She said that she needed a couple weeks to finish getting situated with painting her apartment, getting furniture, just a bunch of errands that come with moving to a new city. Her best friend does live around here but is still about 40 minutes away. Other than that, she doesn't have any here. Dane has some friends and they are pretty nice people for the most part, but they are super socially awkward, and not the type of friends you want to see more than a couple times a month. I don't know if this is still the case, but they were always high all the time too. The friends she misses on the other hand are fantastic people. They are intelligent, outgoing, personable, love to try new things. They are overall much more enjoyable company. So I think after hanging out with Dane's friends all the time she will be thrilled to see these friends again.

If she does start hanging around with us, I could see Dane start to get annoyed very quickly. When he gets annoyed he starts to act unbelievably childish and can act passive aggressive. So I am excited to watch him act like a buffoon.

I found something very interesting. A few months ago when I started dating a little again, my friend told me to work on my eye contact since I often avoided it. So I worked on it and made sure to use it when talking to Kasey since it shows confidence. I wasn't over the top with it, staring her down or anything, but by the end of our dinner I noticed she was having a hard time keeping it with me. She would glance into it for a second and then break it. I found that kind of strange. After we finished eating, I walked her back to her car, she gave me a hug, told me to shoot her a text and to have a good night.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Hello, update time:

So Kasey and I went out to dinner last night, and overall I think it was a pretty good thing. It wasn't very awkward and I gained a lot of information. It was great to talk to her again, I really have missed her and I have such an easy time connecting with her.

I asked her about how her move went and how she likes her new job. She has been pretty happy with it so far, but she lives in a shady area (cheap rent). I asked her how her family was doing and talked about them for a little (I got the feeling that she liked that I remembered a bit about them). She noticed that I had gotten in better shape and lost a bit of weight and complimented me on that (that felt really good). We spoke about some other things, hobbies, books, how we don't fully understand our smart phones. We talked about politics a little, but only because I know we have similar views and we would easily agree on it.

I did learn something interesting. Dane and her split rent on the apartment, but I'm not sure that he lives there yet. Kasey told me how his parents don't know that he has an apartment and that they would literally freak out if he had one. I always knew his parents were very religious and very controlling. I imagine they would freak out even more if they knew it was a one bedroom and that his girlfriend lived there too. So I don't know if he just stays there during the day and then goes home at night, or if he sneaks out at night to stay there. She sounded very perturbed and frustrated about his family in general (they are pretty damn weird) and didn't like how they were a little controlling towards her too. I think she is a little disappointed that he won't stand up to them. One of the things she liked about him originally was that he was "mature". So being 26, living at home and having super controlling parents kind of knocks him down a peg in that area. So that made me smile on the inside a little, or a lot . She asked that I don't do anything mean and tell his parents. I said I wouldn't.

She also told me a few other personal things, and that led me to believe she still has a pretty decent amount of trust in me. I let her know what was happening with some of our good friends. There was a lot she had been kept out of the loop on and many of them had gotten new apartments and jobs. She expressed that she missed a few of them very much, but was afraid that they hated her. I told her that they didn't hate her, but that they were a little upset with how everything turned out. I told her she should come hang around with us when we get together, cook a ton of great food, and then drink a little. She said that she needed a couple weeks to finish getting situated with painting her apartment, getting furniture, just a bunch of errands that come with moving to a new city. Her best friend does live around here but is still about 40 minutes away. Other than that, she doesn't have any here. Dane has some friends and they are pretty nice people for the most part, but they are super socially awkward, and not the type of friends you want to see more than a couple times a month. I don't know if this is still the case, but they were always high all the time too. The friends she misses on the other hand are fantastic people. They are intelligent, outgoing, personable, love to try new things. They are overall much more enjoyable company. So I think after hanging out with Dane's friends all the time she will be thrilled to see these friends again.

If she does start hanging around with us, I could see Dane start to get annoyed very quickly. When he gets annoyed he starts to act unbelievably childish and can act passive aggressive. So I am excited to watch him act like a buffoon.

I found something very interesting. A few months ago when I started dating a little again, my friend told me to work on my eye contact since I often avoided it. So I worked on it and made sure to use it when talking to Kasey since it shows confidence. I wasn't over the top with it, staring her down or anything, but by the end of our dinner I noticed she was having a hard time keeping it with me. She would glance into it for a second and then break it. I found that kind of strange. After we finished eating, I walked her back to her car, she gave me a hug, told me to shoot her a text and to have a good night.

So glad to hear it. Seriously. Awesome. I hope the best for you.

As for the eye contact thing... Good on you. That does make a difference. A girl can tell a lot about how you feel about her by the way you look at her.