How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[SEVERUSMAX]

Every one of them have to do with Jesus. Are you blind? Really?

How did Jesus have anything to do with a young mother and baby born in Isaiah's and Ahaz's time, exactly? Context matters.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Here are some of the details from Psalm 22.Show me where these are mentioned in the Gospels.

Not in the Gospels? Are you kidding? Of course not every word of it is in the Gospels, but much of it is and it's obvious what's being referred to...the crucifixion.

Ps 22:1 ¶ <<To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.>> My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? {Aijeleth...: or, the hind of the morning} {helping...: Heb. my salvation}

In the Gospels:

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mr 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
(KJV)


2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent. {am...: Heb. there is no silence to me}
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

That He would be despised is prophecied in Isaiah:

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Psalm 22:

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.


They laughed Him to scorn:

Mt 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Mr 5:40 And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.
Lu 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.\

Psalm 22:

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, {shoot...: Heb. open}

He Trusted in the Lord that He would deliver Him:

Mt 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Psalm 22:

8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. {He trusted...: Heb. He rolled himself on} {seeing...: or, if he delight in}


9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts. {didst...: or, kept me in safety}
10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
11 ¶ Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help. {none...:
12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

They bit on Him with their mouths:

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

All His bones were out of joint. When a person is crucified, they stretch their limbs out as far as they can go and nail them to the cross. Then they slam the cross into the ground and they joints have no where to go but out of joint.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. {out of...: or, sundered}

His tongue cleaves to His jaws because He was so thirsty:

Psalm 22:

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

When a person is dying of thirst, their tongue sticks to their jaws. They offered Him a sponge full of vinegar, but He wouldn't drink it.

Joh 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

They pierced my hands and my feet is a clear reference to the crucifixion. They nailed His hands and feet to the cross:

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

His bones stare at Him because they are out of joint:

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

They gambled for His clothes:

Pslam 22:

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Mt 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

Joh 19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.


I could keep going, but I have proven my point. This is all a prophecy of the crucifixion.





19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog. {my darling: Heb. my only one} {power: Heb. hand}
21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22 ¶ I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

I hope there's Asian women in Heaven.

Mt 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

Mr 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Lu 20:35 "But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Indian missionaries were critical in settling West

Read more at https://www.wnd.com/2018/08/indian-missionaries-were-critical-in-settling-west/#YxyvVzHcoIfVZWLW.99

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

 

[ishtat]

This song/hymn was written by a Norwegian Lutheran in collaboration with an Irish Catholic. First successfully performed by a Jew, in this instance it is performed by a Moslem, a black Baptist and with support from assorted, Confucians, Buddhists and Taoists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQvUwLSOyfA

All are singing the praises of God and I suspect he finds their devotion far more acceptable than that of fundamentalist buffoons.

 

[phrodeau]

Here are some of the details from Psalm 22.Show me where these are mentioned in the Gospels.

You neatly skipped over the verses I quoted. Where is the NT reference to the bulls, the lions and the dogs? When did they arrive at Calvary two by two?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

You neatly skipped over the verses I quoted. Where is the NT reference to the bulls, the lions and the dogs? When did they arrive at Calvary two by two?

That's because, as I told you, Jesus hates context. Didn't ya know that? He also hates being reminded that he didn't actually get left in a tomb for three days, develop rigor mortis, and then somehow, come back alive and be able to use his body, or that the accounts of his supposed resurrection conflict so badly as to be totally laughable.

1. There's no way that Pilate's gonna take that body down due to some friend or relative's request, or due to the Passover. This was the most brazen, insensitive, inconsiderate, ruthless, brutal, bloodthirsty governor Rome ever put in place. He was so awful that he was eventually dismissed unceremoniously by Tiberius and recalled to Italy in disgrace. Pilate didn't give two shits about the high holy days or Jewish customs and traditions. He proved that more than once.
2. There's no way that Pilate would take his wife with him to a dangerous backwater like Judea. It would endanger her life, she likely wouldn't want to go, as there would be no social life among her own peers (I mean the Romans had their virtues, but they could be such snobs toward provincials at times). Even if she did, she wouldn't give two shits about some half-drunk, rabble-rousing wannabe Messiah (yawn, another of those upstarts from among the great unwashed masses?), any more than Pilate would. Plus, it would make harder to enjoy a mistress or two or a few catamites in that case.
3. There's no secular source that even mentioned such a man as Barabbas or such a custom as releasing one prisoner during Passover. If any Roman governor did that, it wouldn't be Pilate, who definitely wouldn't wring his hands or lose sleep over crucify what was objectively a rebel against the established authority of a Temple cult or Sanhedrin that at least was willing to collaborate with Caesar. I mean, come on, the guy incited and used violence in the Temple during the most crowded time of the year! Pilate didn't even have to be physically there to command an execution with such damning evidence against this young upstart who was being hailed as Messiah.
4. The whole arrest and Sanhedrin trial were so tedious, drawn out, and against the Torah, that it was utterly laughable. They didn't arrest him the moment that he took a whip to the money changers and animal merchants, but gave him almost a week to get away and stir up more shit? He was caught, red-handed, using in the Temple, something that the worst tyrants in Judah seldom if ever did, but he wasn't clapped in irons and his disciples with him right then? They shouldn't have even had enough time to flee, let alone cut off part of a servant's ear! They even charged him at night.....why? As for finding perjured testimony, again not needed. The dude took a whip, knocked over tables and money, as well as animal cages....He claimed to be Messiah. That was all that they needed, as the last thing that the Sanhedrin needed was yet another Galilean yokel zealot claiming to be that!
5. Jesus knows that it's not fig season, but he gets upset when the tree doesn't bear fruit, anyway, and curses it to wither. Yeah, sure sounds like a loving, understanding Creator, doesn't it, blasting and ruining his own creation!
6. Jesus contradicts his previously pacifist teachings and starts speaking of swords, war, division, rejecting family, and uses a whip to attack merchants and bankers in the Temple......how is this not a seditionist? Sure, he'll be left to his own devices, allowed to get up to more mischief, incite people against the scribes and priests, and he does all of this, but doesn't object to paying Caesar the tribute? Give me a break! By this point, as noted above, he should already in prison, awaiting a trial to happen during daylight.
7. Why so many trials for a brazen rebel? What's even left to worry about? He used violence in the Temple and claimed to be Messiah, incited people against the Temple priests and Pharisees, rode into the city on a donkey in a deliberate attempt to fulfill a prophecy and thus claim to be Messiah, even spoke of turning people against their kith and kin, and there's still doubt somewhere as to his guilt? Also, his disciples should be arrested and tried with him. They're part of a dangerous, subversive faction, aren't they?

The whole thing stretches "suspending disbelief" a bit far, doesn't it? Lord of the Rings sounds more plausible than this! It rings false and convenient, even contradictory on nearly every point and just makes no sense......stirring up shit in the Temple twice and leaving unscathed just like that, his disciples able to flee, even after assaulting a guard? Peter at the very least should have been killed on the spot!

Headdesk moments galore. If this were a movie, critics would pan it for gross lack of realism. It's pathetic.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

You neatly skipped over the verses I quoted. Where is the NT reference to the bulls, the lions and the dogs? When did they arrive at Calvary two by two?

I didn't say that every word of that chapter was referenced in the Gospels. I am sure there is more that I didn't comment on. With that said, it's pretty obvious to anyone with eyes that it is referring to the crucifixion AND even the Gospels reference Pslam 22 as prophecy fulfilled. So, it should easy for you to understand that it is a prophecy of the crucifixion.

"They pierced my hands and my feet" are clearly a reference to it as well.

 

[phrodeau]

I didn't say that every word of that chapter was referenced in the Gospels. I am sure there is more that I didn't comment on. With that said, it's pretty obvious to anyone with eyes that it is referring to the crucifixion AND even the Gospels reference Pslam 22 as prophecy fulfilled. So, it should easy for you to understand that it is a prophecy of the crucifixion.

"They pierced my hands and my feet" are clearly a reference to it as well.

There is a term for a prophet whose prophecies aren't 100% accurate. It's Fake News.

Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.

21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

There is a term for a prophet whose prophecies aren't 100% accurate. It's Fake News.

No, the whole chapter isn't going to be quoted verbatim in the Gospels. There is plenty quoted and it references them as prophecy fulfilled.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

There is a term for a prophet whose prophecies aren't 100% accurate. It's Fake News.

See, he's completely opposed to contextual readings of any passages that might in some fashion be twisted and skewed to support his claims of "fulfilled" Messianic prophecies. Never mind that a Psalm isn't a prophecy at all.....it's venting the spleen, baring the soul, ranting, prayer, and praise, but it's not prophecy. Never has been. Never will be. It's a motherfucking Psalm, okay?

Again, context matters.

 

[Tryharder62]

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.


The history of Brisban is interesting. Check it out. Look in the book of Amos where the women were called Cows of Brisban - the lazy women

AMOS 4:1 Hear this word, cows of Brisban who are on the mountain of Samaria, who oppress the poor, who crush the needy, who say to your husbands, bring now, that we may Drink!

The bulls are the men who are evil.

13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.

Lions are used both good and bad in the bible. Jesus was described as the lion of Judah. Lions are more associated with high class.The "high class" people said vial things to the Lord. Spit on him.

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
Dogs in the Bible were not well loved. To be called a dog was to be associated with evil and low status.

From the top to the bottom of society all were surrounding Christ, tearing him apart and killing him.

David is writing a song. He is using pictures of his time.

We do the same thing. After all.....you ain't nothin' but a hound dog.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

See, he's completely opposed to contextual readings of any passages that might in some fashion be twisted and skewed to support his claims of "fulfilled" Messianic prophecies. Never mind that a Psalm isn't a prophecy at all.....it's venting the spleen, baring the soul, ranting, prayer, and praise, but it's not prophecy. Never has been. Never will be. It's a motherf@!#$ Psalm, okay?

Again, context matters.

I would love to give out all of the hundreds of prophecies fulfilled in the NT from the OT, but I am not allowed to via the forum rules.

 

[God_Above]

I would love to give out all of the hundreds of prophecies fulfilled in the NT from the OT, but I am not allowed to via the forum rules.

I'm watching you.


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3157/2623870690_e1827b792d_b.jpg



I'm not pleased.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

God is watching all of us, but you are not God.

 

[phrodeau]

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.


The history of Brisban is interesting. Check it out. Look in the book of Amos where the women were called Cows of Brisban - the lazy women

AMOS 4:1 Hear this word, cows of Brisban who are on the mountain of Samaria, who oppress the poor, who crush the needy, who say to your husbands, bring now, that we may Drink!

The bulls are the men who are evil.

13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.

Lions are used both good and bad in the bible. Jesus was described as the lion of Judah. Lions are more associated with high class.The "high class" people said vial things to the Lord. Spit on him.

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
Dogs in the Bible were not well loved. To be called a dog was to be associated with evil and low status.

From the top to the bottom of society all were surrounding Christ, tearing him apart and killing him.

David is writing a song. He is using pictures of his time.

We do the same thing. After all.....you ain't nothin' but a hound dog.

And all these were present at the Crucifixion, where exactly?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

And all these were present at the Crucifixion, where exactly?

Don't use logic. He'll get confused.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

It would have been fun to get Joseph on Maury Povich.

"Joseph, son (either Jacob or Heli, depending which book one believes), in the case of little Jesus, you are not the father."

 

[runsilent]

19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog. {my darling: Heb. my only one} {power: Heb. hand}
21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22 ¶ I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.[/QUOTE]

OK now you are just being silly. Do starving children in Africa not pray enough? What do their megar words not say enough to gain God's favor. They are children and apparently don't know how to pray better. Supplication from children that don't even know what the words mean? Your god is vindictive and cruel.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

And all these were present at the Crucifixion, where exactly?

Those are analogies in my opinion.

He uses them often:

Mt 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mt 10:16 ¶ Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. {harmless: or, simple}
Lu 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
Ac 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
(KJV)

 

[phrodeau]

Those are analogies in my opinion.

He uses them often:

Mt 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mt 10:16 ¶ Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. {harmless: or, simple}
Lu 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
Ac 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
(KJV)

Who, David? Your examples are all from the New Testament.

You want to claim that a prophet who's supposed to be 100% accurate, is actually filling his explicit prophecies with metaphors. And in this case, one of his most compelling prophecy songs, he used three different bestial metaphors in a row, but didn't make any of them clearly metaphors.

Look in David's other writing. When he means real lions, he writes lions. When he uses metaphor, he writes "like a lion."

If you use the measure of reliability for prophets and prophecies that the Bible says you should use, David clearly fails the test.

 

[Tryharder62]

And all these were present at the Crucifixion, where exactly?

It is my opinion that this is David's lyrical description of the people in the crowd that surrounded Jesus. Evil people from all classes who taunted him, scourge him, nailed him to a cross and killed him.

Don't use logic. He'll get confused.

I'm a chick! (oh...urban dictionary) a non-derogatory term used to mean female. Imagine -an animal description for a type of person. It happens

 

[Tryharder62]

OK now you are just being silly. Do starving children in Africa not pray enough? What do their megar words not say enough to gain God's favor. They are children and apparently don't know how to pray better. Supplication from children that don't even know what the words mean? Your god is vindictive and cruel - runsilent

Hurting children strike at my heart. Maybe because of my childhood. The thing is God allows choice. Evil that we choose causes consequences to others-even innocent others.
We want to chose our path in life. What happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not stopping the consequences.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

OK now you are just being silly. Do starving children in Africa not pray enough? What do their megar words not say enough to gain God's favor. They are children and apparently don't know how to pray better. Supplication from children that don't even know what the words mean? Your god is vindictive and cruel - runsilent

Hurting children strike at my heart. Maybe because of my childhood. The thing is God allows choice. Evil that we choose causes consequences to others-even innocent others.
We want to chose our path in life. What happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not stopping the consequences.

What evil did the children do or their parents, that they should have consequences or divine punishment, what would cause divine retribution against innocent kids? Oh, of course, this god of yours is a jealous god and punishes descendants of those who offend him......despite telling Moses not to do that in his laws.......hypocrite much?