How to defeat Bush's SS plan, soak the rich and give it to the poor.

[*******]

Well, I am still going to write a letter...

I am pissed as hell now.

Be nice to Throb. Later.

 

[*******]

Someone needs to point out to the yahoos in DC (and in Jefferson City) that when people have more money to spend they will spend more. Gawd-damned zero-sum thinking!

Yeah, I know, one more hand, and THEN I'll go...

 

[Ishmael]

Someone needs to point out to the yahoos in DC (and in Jefferson City) that when people have more money to spend they will spend more. Gawd-damned zero-sum thinking!

Yeah, I know, one more hand, and THEN I'll go...

I don't disagree. I was merely pointing out that there are some down sides to HR 25. You can't do anything with any tax code that doesn't gore someones ox and sometimes you're going to take a little collateral damage yourself.

On the whole, it's the best idea to come down the pike in a while and wholly in keeping with the ideals and unamendment tenets of the Constitution.

Ishmael

 

[RobDownSouth]

Still playing parlor tricks Rob?

It doesn't matter what I call it Rob. The only thing that matters is what I pay at the checkout.

WHOA! Distortion shields on FULL POWER, eh Ish?

ANSWER THE QUESTION...it was very simple.

WHEN PEOPLE ASK YOU WHAT THE SALES TAX RATE IS IN FLORIDA, DO YOU TELL THEM "6%" or ""5.7% TAX INCLUSIVE"?

What's so hard about a simple either/or question?

The fact that you go to great lengths to avoid answering such a simple question should give people pause and wonder what it is you are hiding.

 

[Guest]

A discussion for Democrats.

How about a system where even the illegal immigrants who are so neccessary to our economy even pay their fair share of taxes? ...

Most illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. As I've posted quite a few times on the GB, the taxes are automatically taken out of their wages so that the companies they work for appear (on paper) as though they are hiring only legal workers. Most of those workers, if they were legal, would be able to reclaim what they had taken out of their pay at tax time because they don't make enough to have to pay taxes. But because they're not legal they don't have real SS numbers (or resident alien numbers), and so they cannot file tax returns and get the money back. To simplify: illegal people pay MORE than their fair share of taxes.

Hey, if you're going to make suggestions it's a good idea to get your info. right first.

Edited to add: Most illegal MIGRANTS don't stay here permanently, and are the ones getting taxes deducted out of their wages moreso than immigrants. So you might want to check the difference between what a migrant is and what an immigrant is.

 

[RobDownSouth]

UnFairTax would make the construction industry go BLOOEY!

Back in 2005, Frisco Slug_Esq (then posting as ********) agreed with me that the UnFairTax would give less money to home builders.

Lets look at some examples

Example 1: Current system

$40,000 Land cost (25%)
$48,000 Labor cost (30%)
$32,000 Material cost (20%)
$40,000 Misc overhead/compliance cost (25%)
===================================
$160,000 total cost of building house

The builder typically has gross profit margin of 20% :$40,000

The house would then be priced at $200,000

So Joe Homebuyer pays $200K, gets the homeowner deduction and builder gets $40K


Example 2: Flat tax

$40,000 Land cost (25%) (unchanged)
$33,600 Labor cost ($48,000 reduced by 30% flat tax)
$22,400 Material cost ($32,000 reduced by 30% flat tax)
$36,000 Misc overhead/compliance cost (compliance costs won't go away totally, I'll be generous and knock 10% of $40,000 due to flat tax)
===================================
$132,000 total cost of building house

The builder still has gross profit margin of 20% :$26,400
This makes the pre-tax price of the house $158,400
Add the 30% flat tax and you have a house priced at $205,920

So Joe Homebuyer pays $205K, gets NO homeowner deduction and builder gets $26K

So the homebuyer pays MORE, the builder makes LESS and the flat tax proponents claim this is a GOOD thing?

Must be something in the "mathmatical" sic calculations I am missing.

Throb, I would be for a flat tax too except for one thing.

That's how our present system started....

I don't dispute your math, I distrust the vehicle.

But I could go for it over what we have now. Agreed?

 

[jeninflorida]

and lets give the poor a base salary of $60,000 tax free! Oh, and we must well toss in a free car. Wait, can’t forget to add a house…nothing too big but a house with a value of $250,000 would be good. The car would stimulate GM, while the house would help dry up the foreclosures.

Then, we can tweak America to become the next great USSR. After twenty years of giving crap away for free, the government wakes up and realizes its out of cash! Once they sold all the cash from hard working American’s and redistributed wealth to the poor…no more money to give away

while looking around, the goverment realized that there wasn't a god damn soul working as everyone was sitting on his or her fat ass.

A new generation of Mob came into power, just like Russia! Go putin.


this is brilliant!

A discussion for Democrats.

A nice, neat tidy, no name-calling and no finger-pointing thread for those who lurk and are intimidated by the evil neo-conns.

Let's face it, the guy's a clown with the business acumen of Alfred E. Newman. Hell, you may even hate the guy and everything he stands for. So, instead of getting spitting MAD, how about offering an alternative other than Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No?"

Would you like to have a system where the poor pay no FICA, are fully invested in Social Security AND, AND, AND, the government gives them a check every single month out of the pockets of the rich? One that doesn't privatize Social Security? One that keeps ALL the power firmly in Washington where it rightfully belongs as per FDR? How about a system where even the illegal immigrants who are so neccessary to our economy even pay their fair share of taxes? A system that forces even the drug dealers to participate? How about a system that prevents "evil" corporate America from cheating the IRS with the help of Republicans? A plan endorsed by Alan Greenspan? A plan fully rooted in reality, one that doesn't benefit the rich in any way, shape, or form? In fact a plan that "targets" the rich to pay more taxes than the poor?

If your answer to these questions is a resounding oh, hell YES, then you are for a consumption tax, specifically House Resolution number 25 (not to be confused with Love Potion #9). The details of the plan are just a click away at Fairtax.org.

Benefit one: The poor pay no withholding tax.
Benefit two: The poor are fully vested in Social Security and it is fully funded.
Benefit three: The poor get a check from the IRS each and every month, just for being good Americans.
Benefit four: No more fear of the IRS.
Benefit five: No more being forced to tell the government how much money you make.
Benefit six: More money for social programs.
Benefit seven: Sending less money to China because the cost of manufacturing goods in the United States goes down by over 25%.
Benefit eight: More manufacturing jobs for those too st-st-st-stoopid (but inherently "good") to do anything else.
Benefit nine: It forces Washington to spend only what it has, and if Washington feels it needs to increase taxes, it cannot use divide and conquer methods, but must convince and get "ALL" of us to go along with it.

Benefit ten: It takes the initiative away from Bush and gives you an actual idea other than "I hate Bush, conservatives, and especially CHRISTIANS," and instead replaces it with a victory that leads you to "feel" very good about yourself.

[The Shits and Giggles benefit: It also forces Canada, Mexico, and French and German tourists to pay more taxes to Uncle Sam]






So what do you think? Was haben Sie gedenken? [Meinen grossmutti would be ashamed at how bad my Pennsylvania Dutch is! ]



Can't we all just get along?

 

[jeninflorida]

that is true, if they are not being paid in cash. And for those that get a check...wait who social security number is the illegal worker using? If the illegal doesn’t have papers then there is no way they have any form of government ID number.

Most illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. As I've posted quite a few times on the GB, the taxes are automatically taken out of their wages so that the companies they work for appear (on paper) as though they are hiring only legal workers. Most of those workers, if they were legal, would be able to reclaim what they had taken out of their pay at tax time because they don't make enough to have to pay taxes. But because they're not legal they don't have real SS numbers (or resident alien numbers), and so they cannot file tax returns and get the money back. To simplify: illegal people pay MORE than their fair share of taxes.

Hey, if you're going to make suggestions it's a good idea to get your info. right first.

Edited to add: Most illegal MIGRANTS don't stay here permanently, and are the ones getting taxes deducted out of their wages moreso than immigrants. So you might want to check the difference between what a migrant is and what an immigrant is.