How to continue

[johnwasdoe]

I have lurked around here for quite a while and I finally decided to see what people think I should do with my current life in terms of relationships. I am a virgin in my early twenties and I have never so much as had a female friend in my whole life. The way to meet women when I was younger was through parties, but I have something personal against alcohol and drug consumption of pretty much any kind, so I always felt uncomfortable being in situations like that. I don't believe I am unattractive and I lift and exercise quite a lot, but no woman have ever approached me with any real interest.
I don't really have any close friends and the people I sometimes hang out with, maybe once or twice a month, are fairly exclusive with their girlfriends so they don't know many other people. I am a student (still) and have had it pretty easy my whole life living off my parents, but now I find myself spending 20 hours a day on average in my house with no reason to even go outside.
Finally, I guess one of the biggest problems I have is that I don't really know if even having a relationship with someone is fair. I absolutely do not want children. I want a simple life where I can do what I want and where I am not tied completely down. However, I find myself more depressed not having someone I can share a deep emotional bond with and I do not want to use women for my emotional and sexual needs and then dump them when children become an issue. Am I better off alone?

If you spend the time reading this then I thank you for your time and I would like to hear your thoughts even if it is just to criticize me in some way.

 

[Ezzy]

Get a job, get a hobby, and get a girl!

If you stay in the rut you're in and you'll never have a chance to find her, who ever she is. Get out of your rut, get out of your house, get a life and start living.

Part of having a successful life is overcoming adversity, and I don't just mean, finding something in the fridge or the pantry to eat when your folks cook something you don't like, though with parents who are as accommodating as yours sound like, the fact that they cook something you don’t like, is probably not going to happen very often.

 

[PertPerth]

I'm not trying to be rude, you asked, so I'm going to answer. Ezzy has a point. If you DO things, you're more likely to find the people you're looking for (as well as a huge number of people you'd probably rather not have met along the way! But hey, odd people always give you stories to tell!)

Move out as soon as you can. Independence is SO good for your self esteem (and both independence and high self esteem is great for getting girls). I think you might surprise yourself at how able you are. You don't need your parents now that you're an adult. They are always there for "back up", but don't lean on them. I'm still trying to get that through to my older brother. He's so coddled by my parents - even to the point where they own 2/3 of his house. Both my brother and my parents THINK they're helping my brother, but really...they're making things too easy for him...so yes, he's got no hobbies, no friends and he's single. And that leads to depression --> and the cycle continues. Depressed often = doesn't want to get out of the house.

Try joining group activities. Get a job with a large company - they often have social clubs. Even if you're still studying full-time...get part time work - not necessarily for the $$, but for GETTING OUT of the house. Being needed is a wonderful feeling.

As for not wanting kids - I know many people, but male and female...so don't stress about it. Be honest about what you're looking for - and get out there! You'll never find her if you're not really looking.

Making any life changes is always going to be stressful and difficult. Having said that, if you're really wanting that happy life and girl, you're going to have to make that extra effort.
Life doesn't come to you and land in your lap. You have to hunt it down!

Good luck
~Pert

 

[SweetErika]

I have lurked around here for quite a while and I finally decided to see what people think I should do with my current life in terms of relationships.

Welcome to posting!

As you likely know from lurking, HT'ers aren't likely to be mean-spirited, or overly critical; we are likely to give you honest opinions, even if they may not be what you want to hear.

I am a virgin in my early twenties and I have never so much as had a female friend in my whole life.

I know you said you're not into the party scene, but why haven't you met and tried to befriend women in other arenas, like school, hobbies and extracurriculars? Or have you tried unsuccessfully?

I don't believe I am unattractive and I lift and exercise quite a lot, but no woman have ever approached me with any real interest.

For many of us, a good personality and mind trumps a good body or looks any day of the week.

And, is it possible they HAVE approached you, but you misread their signals?

Perhaps more importantly, have YOU approached women who seem interesting? Do you currently make a habit of approaching every woman who sparks your interest in some way, whether it's for practice or your goal is to get a date?

I don't really have any close friends and the people I sometimes hang out with, maybe once or twice a month,...

Why don't you have close friends and why do you only hang out with others a couple of times a month? Would you like more friends and/or social interaction?

I am a student (still) and have had it pretty easy my whole life living off my parents, but now I find myself spending 20 hours a day on average in my house with no reason to even go outside.

Like Ezzy said, it sounds like it's time for you to get a job and/or activities that provide interaction. If you have a problem with that, you're going to need to look into why, whether it's a matter of depression, being too dependent on your parents, difficulty relating to others or something else.

It's great to not have to worry about paying the bills, but you're going to have to leave the nest at some point and you don't want to be really unstable then because you've never learned to take care of yourself.

Plus, women generally like guys who can take care of things and socialize.

Finally, I guess one of the biggest problems I have is that I don't really know if even having a relationship with someone is fair. I absolutely do not want children. I want a simple life where I can do what I want and where I am not tied completely down.

I don't think the not wanting kids thing is such a huge deal. There are women who don't ever want kids, and you're not anywhere close to the point of it being an issue, anyway, since you're just trying to learn how to connect with women on a basic level.

The bigger issue, IMO, is your goal of wanting to do what you want and not be tied down. That's not compatible with wanting a relationship with a deep emotional connection, Buddy.

Deep connections require deep commitment, giving and compromising a lot. You simply can not just do what you want; the best you can hope for is finding someone who wants similar things so you can both do what you want together, and supports you in doing a lot of what you want (just as you will support her in doing what she loves). But you're still going to end up NOT being as free as you are as a single person, and giving up stuff for the higher good of your partner and the relationship. That's what love is about.

I'd caution you against getting set in your current mentality and ways before you experience what life and relationships have to offer. What you think you want now may not be the case in a few years or decades, and by settling on a self-centered mindset, you may end up excluding people and things that will truly make you happy. Basically, you need to be completely open to your wants, needs and lifestyle changing in ways you never would have imagined, or you're going to find yourself very conflicted and/or lonely long-term.

 

[smotherman]

Welcome to Lit!

Seems like you're not ready for any emotional ties, so yes being alone will be better for you. Possibly the reason why women are not approaching you is because you lack confidence. Women can sense that right away. There are other ways to mingle and meet women beside going to parties. I'm not into the drug scene either, I meet women at malls, stores, at the library etc.

Like everyone else said, stay active take up hobbies to take your mind off not being in a relationship. And please don't get involved in an relationship until you're ready emotionally.

Best of luck to you!

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Hi johnwasdoe,

Just a few random thoughts I had after reading your post.

First off, I don't want children. I have medical issues that would make it complicated, maybe risky. Added to that, I have never had a burning desire to have kids. My friends have kids and I love them, I can even spend a whole day with them if I'm in the right frame of mind. As for having my own - forget it. My Master does not want kids but it didn't stop him seeking a relationship. If you are honest about what you are looking for you will find that there are more women like me out there.

We do sometimes keep a low profile because to some women, saying 'I don't ever want kids' is like saying 'I am a callous, heartless bitch, probably a militant feminist dyke, who thinks that your progeny are evil spawn. I am an insult to God and Darwin. I frown on your way of life and mine will always be that bit more exciting. I have no stretch marks. Villify me.'

I wouldn't suggest that you spend time with people you have nothing in common with but your limited circle of friends and introverted lifestyle probably give people the impression that you are not looking for friends or a girlfriend. Personally, and please don't be offended. If I knew of an attractive guy who was in his 20s, never had a girlfriend, didn't socialise, worked out and generally kept to himself I would wonder if he was gay. I'm not saying that everybody must think this of you. I'm offering it as a possibility.

Women are notoriously crap at making the first move on a guy. If you give away so little of yourself, women will be even less confident about approaching you.

You sound quite down about your lifestyle and I wonder if your isolation is making you a little depressed. There are other places to meet people, you don't have to go to boozy parties. Join a club or something that interests you, get a dog and go walking in the park every day, do something that gets you out of the house.

I think maybe you need to work on appearing approachable. You don't have to suck up to people you don't like but be pleasant to people, take an interest in anyone who chats with you, even if it's just for 5 minutes. Some of your peers may interpret your dislike of parties as criticism of themselves and their lifestyle. They may think you something of a killjoy. They may even assume you're religious and puritanical in your dislike of alcohol. It's up to you to communicate to people that you're basically a regular guy and that you do enjoy having a laugh. If you don't they'll fill in the blanks with assumption.

I hope that you can integrate a bit more. It'll feel forced and awkward to start with but practice will make perfect.

 

[EjAcKuLaToR]

johnwasdoe

I think you were fairly honest in your approach. I'll be the same.

1) You are conflicted...you don't know what you want. You want a relationship, but you don't want to be tied down. Women don't want someone who doesn't know what they want. They want someone conclusive and self-assured. Work through your issues and really think about what you want. If you really want a relationship, then you need to want the things that come along with it. Otherwise, you really just don't want the relationship.

2) When I was your age, I knew guys and girls who like yourself were "undecided". People considered them "asexual" (that's not intended to be an insult). The reason people considered them to be asexual is just that. Because they never expressed any interest in anything having to do with the opposite sex.

3) You basically said that everything in life has been handed to you on a silver platter by your parents. Well, it's time you do something for yourself. Women don't hand themselves to you. You have to go out and get one. A woman can be a lifelong partner (obviously you know that), but the point is that if someone is seeking a lifelong partner, it's going to be with someone who is at least expressing some interest in THEM.

4) It's not all about you. Remember, if you decide you want a partner, YOU have to go get one. You have to stop being engaged in the pleasing activity of having everything given to you and you have to begin the results-oriented activity of going out and getting it for yourself.

The good news (I think) is that you're not alone in the world. There are lots of kids out there who have been coddled by mommy and daddy all their lives who are in your same shoes. You just have to decide when you've had enough of that and you want to be a man. Then go be a man.

Don't be a whiner.

Sorry if my words sound a little harsh, I don't mean them to be, but I intended to be honest with what I think is your problem.
Jack

 

[johnwasdoe]

Thanks

Thank you for responding to my current situation and feelings with honest opinions. I didn't want anyone to hold back on what they thought and I will not be offended.
First off, I realize that the consensus is along the line that I have to become independent from my parents, but there is no way that would be financially possible until I finish school and then find an appropriate job. That entire process could well take another year or two, and I already find myself becoming angry at others who have relationships like what I would want.
I agree I am conflicted. I guess I am trying to feel loved and needed by someone without having to pay for it. I had a job for two years prior, but it was an overnight manual labor job. The hours eventually hurt my health and I couldn't keep working there. It also seems that the longer I am exposed to other men, the more I hate them in their general views of others. How they talk about women as if they are only good for sex, or how many women they got to sleep with. I could do without ever having a male friend ever again.
Lastly, and honestly, I feel scared. If I left my parents to live on my own and I still failed miserably and ended up alone, I don't know if I could go on living. I don't handle stressing situations very well and frankly I never had to.

Anyway, thanks for listening to me. I have felt like dumping my feelings onto someone for a long time. I apologize if this has been long winded and I am sorry if it sounds like all I am doing is whining. Thank You.

 

[Camilleon]

Johnwasdoe,

I have read your comments several times and I see a strong pattern in the things you say and how you say them. Let me explain.

I have an autistic son. As a result, I have had to educate myself in autism and something related called Asperger's syndrome. I'm no psychologist, but I must say that you definitely display several characteristics of an Asperger's person.

I urge you to read about Asperger's Syndrome and decide for yourself if you MIGHT have that condition. If you suspect it, please see a psychologist who specializes in this area. If you do have Asperger's, you can deal with it - if you know.

If you think I can help further in this effort, please feel free to PM me.

Camilleon

 

[alaskabibear]

Johnwasdoe,

I don't have much more to add than the good advice that you have already received here, but I just want to stress to you that you are in a serious and potentially dangerous place mentally. I only say "dangerous" because what you are doing is setting a pattern of living that can be very destructive to your long-term happiness. It is good to come here and talk about this so that you might get some ideas as to how to "turn your ship" (however, just coming here and chatting is not the end all solution! Don't let the computer become your social life).

Just a few random thoughts;
Could you not move into dorms or a shared apartment on campus? It would be really good to get you out of your house ASAP! (even if your folks were to pay for it - perhaps you should even be honest with them about your need to get out of the house and the damage the isolation is doing to you) Maybe you could help with a "work/study job" at school. You also said you are spending about 20 hours a day in the house? Could you not find a part time job for some of those hours? (but, something you need to be honest with yourself about is; do you really want to leave the house, or are you just making excuses for yourself. Because if you think about it, we all ultimately do the things we truly want to do - if you REALLY wanted to leave you would have already done so. That's not meant to be critical - just a wake-up call to help you be honest with yourself.)

The early to mid 20's are a time to discover yourself and the world. These years will never come again. I encourage you to think about what you would do "if you could anything you wanted" - and then figure out a way to do it! Not later, but now.(e.g. travel to Europe, study art, bum around the country for a summer, etc.). Jobs and success will come along in due time - don't stress over that. Just try to remember that you will probably live into your mid 80's - that means you have about 3/4 of your life left in front of you. Believe me, you have time to be happy. And, you need to look long and hard at whether or not you want to live the rest of those years in the way you are currently doing. I know you don't, so the thing to do is FORCE yourself to change the way you are approaching life. You're the driver buddy, only you can turn the wheel!

You have a leg up because of your choice to avoid drugs/alcohol - these are robbers of true happiness. But, your isolation and depression is an equally dangerous robber of happiness - you just need to get the same mindset about this being something you don't want- just like you did about the drugs. (and don't be shy about seeking some professional counsel - there should be something available to you at the college you are attending.)

Finally, some words that I try to live by; "thoughts lead to actions - actions lead to habits - habits lead to character - and character is who we are..." (please note that what and who we become starts with own own thoughts - you are either your own savior or your own executer) - Good Luck and do know that you are among friends here.

 

[PublicAffection]

Many many students live on thier own while seeking a degree. It is challenging, yes, but also very rewarding. I think you would be surprised at how much more confident and content you would feel if you were on your own.

I would like to add to the fantastic advice above with a personal experience.

I was with a guy who lived with his parents (they were so accomodating that they gave him his own section of the house). He also was in school, but never left the house for any reason - he didn't feel the need to as his parents provided him with everything a person could want. He constantly complained about not having any friends, being depressed, feeling insignificant, and wishing he had a "better" life. Amazingly, I stayed with him for three years - all the while trying to get him off his duff. I lived with him in his parent's house for the last year that we were together.

His depression cycle got to the point where he quit school, stopped interacting completely with anyone other than me, and spent his entire day/night playing Xbox and games online.

Meanwhile, I was working full time and trying to grow up and spread my wings. I finally felt so held back by him that I moved out and got my own apartment & moved on.

If you do not find direction and independence in your life NOW - you run a very high risk of worsening the cycle to the point that you forfeit all of your independance and future aspirations. Case in point - it has been 5 years since I left the man mentioned above. I have a great career, a house, a very fulfilling life as a whole. He (the ex mentioned) is now 28, still lives in his parent's basement, and to my knowledge still isn't working or finishing his education, and probably never will.

Please don't go down the same road as he did.

 

[Mansa Musa]

Here´s my flippant answer: Fuck a prostitute.
Here´s my real answer: Join a club and meet a woman who shares your personal intersts. Friendship lasts longer than love, and your female friend will be willing to introduce you to other women if your relationship doesn´t work out.

 

[johnwasdoe]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I didn't expect to receive this much attention and it is appreciated.

Does anyone agree about me doing things in the following manner?

I complete school first since I have no means of living on my own and my family isn't exactly rich enough to afford separate housing here. While still going to school I will make an effort to talk to women as often as I can, whenever we are waiting outside a classroom or during breaks and stuff. I guess the way anyone will ever be interested in me is if I expose myself as much as possible (not literally of course). If I can find someone who would be willing to be a roommate at least then it will be a lot easier for me to transition into living away from my parents because, as I have explained, I have basically had to do nothing other than school my entire life and even then I have been doing it slowly. As long as I keep it fair, I don't see why a roommate scenario or something similar wouldn't work.

The entire process may still take me to my mid-twenties and ruin that self exploration time for me, but at least it is a shot for me to become my own person correct? My parents are slowly killing me and they still treat me like a little kid, but I am just lacking motivation to stop them I think.

 

[Tyr51]

Hon,

You sound like you're dealing with a lot of issues right now, and if you're never leaving the house you could very well be suffering from clinical depression or something else. You talk about having a negative self image, yet you work out a lot. You talk about wanting a relationship, but not wanting one. You talk about being fortunate about living with your parents, and being unfortunate. You're a young man going through a difficult time and you have a lot to sort out. You're not going to find your answers in this forum, but I think you already know that.

You say you're in college? That's fantastic. You have a lot of resources there you should look at taking advantage of. Have you looked into dorm housing? You might need to take a bit more in loans, but it will throw you into a social circle of some sort, and it will get you out of the house. It's a great half way point for getting on your own. Also, most colleges will have some dorms that have different focuses. There may be a "clean living" dorm (i.e. no alcohal), or dorms for people who are in certain academic programs or have specific interests. You need to talk with your school and find out what these resources are.

You also, very likely, have access to free counseling through your school. Almost all of them answer it. Talk to them for a bit, they can be there (in person), listen, help you to find some of your own answers. They can also refer you to a psychiatrist if they feel you are not just dealing with outside factors in regards to your depression.


The most difficult thing about depression, and yes I do speak from first hand experience, is that you really *can't* do anything about it when you're in the middle of it. The dispair is so overwhelming, some days it is all you can do to breathe. No outlook looks remotely possible or achievable. You can know that socializing will take you out of it, but you can't concieve of making the effort to try and be social.

This is when social and support networks come very much in handy.... people close to us can recognize when we might need to be pulled out of the house. Our doctor can prescribe something to help us get over the worst of it, or a therapist can help us find our own solutions and make a plan.

If you don't drink/do drugs for religious reasons, or have a particular religious leaning, those institutions can also be very helpful in providing counseling, friends, and support.

But if you can only do one thing.... when you're done with class in the next week, go to your student health center. Make an appointment for counseling, and go talk with someone face to face who will not judge you.

I wish you hope and all the best!

 

[Tyr51]

P.S. You wrote:

"The entire process may still take me to my mid-twenties and ruin that self exploration time for me, but at least it is a shot for me to become my own person correct? "

You wont ruin your "self exploration" time. Trust me. Self exploration never stops. You're exploring even now. It sounds like you have the start of a plan, and that's good.

 

[mjl2010]

Well. We certainly covered this thread in good time.

Lots of good advice given.

<takes his know it all badge and heads off to another thread>

MJL

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I think that your suggestions to chat more outside your classes and 'expose yourself more' are very positive ones. It's always daunting to try changing your personality and learned approach to things, especially when you've been studying for so long and everyone knows you as johnwasdoe, the quiet guy.

I was wondering whether you could turn the 'moving out' advice on its head. If your parent have space and aren't exactly rich, would they entertain the idea of renting a room to another student? That way you'd get a roomate without moving out. You clearly have issues with your parents and like all parents I'm sure they think that they're being loving and supportive and keeping you in line when in fact they're driving you nuts. It's as hard for them to stop treating you like a sulky 5 year old as it is for you to stop reverting to one when you disagree with them. It's frustrating to be ready for your independence but not in a position to spread your wings.

In my opinion, your issues with your parents are a very good reason to find some activities and interests outside the house. Yes, you have to study but other students make their grades and still have a social life. It may even be time to sit your parents down (if you haven't done so) and explain how their behaviour is making you feel. If there are parental restrictions you feel you've outgrown it might be time to re-negotiate them. You have shown that you are a responsible young man and a good student, this means that you've earned their trust. It's not ungrateful or disrespectful to ask to be cut a little slack and permitted a little more autonomy. They have to start letting go sometime.