How to act at a wake.

[sweetnpetite]

Some of us (apparently) do not wholly subscribe to the point of view that dictates that nothing bad be said at a "wake" or "memorial." Certain discretion is advisable, but there is no reason why we should hold our tongues, particularly if we feel that the tributes are way over the top.

PS Would the same rule (if you don't have anything good to say, hold your peace) apply to the death of any human "monster"? (Think Hitler or Stalin or Pinochet or Saddam memorial thread)

Never was it said that nothing bad could be said. An attitude of respectfulness for those in mourning must be cultivated, and that is all. Call R.R. any name in the book, I doubt he will be hurt by it at this point. However, behaving in a rude, obnoxious manner will alientate your community. In this case, lit is that comunity.

 

[destinie21]

HS

I don't get this if you have nothing kind to say or if you dislike the deceased that much what would you be doing at the damn wake in the first place. A wake is a place to pay last respects it's moot to attend if there was no respect in the first place.

 

[cloudy]

HS

I don't get this if you have nothing kind to say or if you dislike the deceased that much what would you be doing at the damn wake in the first place. A wake is a place to pay last respects it's moot to attend if there was no respect in the first place.

My thoughts exactly.

I was astonished at the rude comments posted.

 

[sweetnpetite]

HS

I don't get this if you have nothing kind to say or if you dislike the deceased that much what would you be doing at the damn wake in the first place. A wake is a place to pay last respects it's moot to attend if there was no respect in the first place.

Exactly.

That was one of the points I meant to make, but forgot to mention. Thanks dest.

 

[sweetnpetite]

for myself, as a matter of respect for a solomn occasion, I purposly removed my sigline on that particular thread. [It's not polite to wear red to a funeral] (I usually do it on threads about children too)

Not everything is appropriate in all contexts. Even though there is nothing wrong with it per se.

 

[destinie21]

I'll never understand why some people have no decorum. I wouldn't mourn the death of the grandmaster of the KKK but I certainly wouldn't deny those who wanted to the peace to do so.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I'll never understand why some people have no decorum. I wouldn't mourn the death of the grandmaster of the KKK but I certainly wouldn't deny those who wanted to the peace to do so.

You mean you wouldn't walze in wearing a red dress and yell, "Hallilujia and praise the Lord! Ding, dong, the grand ol' wizard is dead?"

Oh yeah, and then tell everyone there that they are hypocrites for saying nice things about him and that you have a first amendment right to say anything you please?

?What kind of American are you?

 

[destinie21]

You mean you wouldn't walze in wearing a red dress and yell, "Hallilujia and praise the Lord! Ding, dong, the grand ol' wizard is dead?"

Oh yeah, and then tell everyone there that they are hypocrites for saying nice things about him and that you have a first amendment right to say anything you please?

?What kind of American are you?

Waltz no, Tango maybe is there an option for the foxtrot

 

[cantdog]

We could write some occasional music:

Tangos for the Wake
arranged for oompah band and mouth harp

and march the band and Studebaker John in first...

 

[Svenskaflicka]

You mean you wouldn't walze in wearing a red dress and yell, "Hallilujia and praise the Lord! Ding, dong, the grand ol' wizard is dead?"

Oh yeah, and then tell everyone there that they are hypocrites for saying nice things about him and that you have a first amendment right to say anything you please?

?What kind of American are you?

But isn't that what was done to the Reagan thread? People using the freedom of speech to openly say "I never liked him, and I'm not mourning him."

 

[gauchecritic]

I was never impressed by Reagan, he was a president who surrounded himself with bean counters and an easy target for so called subversive comedy. The main reason I wasn't impressed was the effect he had on my country and my neighbourhood in the form of The Thatch and I hate her with a vengeance. So I didn't even visit the 'Poor Ronnie' thread.

OK you want to mourn his passing, that's fine. But the problem, as I see it from a quick scan, is that he was being talked up as the best thing since sliced bread. Is it any wonder then that someone will put in their two penn'orth about how he harmed the US and millions of families with his policies and reaganomics?

As has been said, it's a public forum, not a private room in someone's home. You can't eject hecklers from speaker's corner, the best that you can do is ignore them, which, it seems to me is exactly what should have happened.

Gauche

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Gauche: It's about class, decorum and respect. It doesn't really matter is the person was favorable in ones eyes or not.

You may not have liked Reagan, that's okay. There were many great things about him just like there were many great and not great things about every other person that has held that office.

Nixon and Carter both had great accomplishments to go with their failures as well.

When Carter or Clinton dies, I hope that "conservatives" will have the same respect that is being shown for Reagan and his admirers on this board by 99% of the people here.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Theoretically you have the right to say whatever you want, on any thread you want. I started that thread and in deference to the many here who did not like Regan, I did not eulogize him. But I do feel grief at his passing and many of the people here who I know didn't like him went out of their way to find something nice to say. And I appreciated that, because it wasn't just about RR passing, it was about personal grief to me.

If you wanted to call him a rat bastard, you had that option. Had those who disliked him opened a thread and gone off, I wouldn't have cared. But some chose to go off in the thread I posted and per your advice I promptly put them on ignore.

There is a certain decorum to human relations. Trouncing all over someone's feelings when they are already suffring pain is about the lowest, most shitty thing you can do, in my humble opinion.

-Colly

 

[sweetnpetite]

Theoretically you have the right to say whatever you want, on any thread you want. I started that thread and in deference to the many here who did not like Regan, I did not eulogize him. But I do feel grief at his passing and many of the people here who I know didn't like him went out of their way to find something nice to say. And I appreciated that, because it wasn't just about RR passing, it was about personal grief to me.

If you wanted to call him a rat bastard, you had that option. Had those who disliked him opened a thread and gone off, I wouldn't have cared. But some chose to go off in the thread I posted and per your advice I promptly put them on ignore.

There is a certain decorum to human relations. Trouncing all over someone's feelings when they are already suffring pain is about the lowest, most shitty thing you can do, in my humble opinion.

-Colly

Exactly. Thank you CT. (Even if you do happen to see them out in public discusing their loss)

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Exactly. Thank you CT. (Even if you do happen to see them out in public discusing their loss)

Because of my myriad of mental & physical problems, this community is in the truest sense my home, family, circle of freinds, what have you.

In times of trouble, without fail someone here has had advice, a comforting word, or just listened. I have done my best to be there for anyone who needed me.

When you are hurting and you put it out there, you always run the risk of people ridiculing you, or making it worse. You also know some will say a kind word and help lessen the pain, by sharing of themselves.

The payoff, in most every case is worth the callousness of the few. For me, the thread helped immensly. Good friends do that for you, and some of those here, are good people of the finest sort.

-Colly

 

[cloudy]

Because of my myriad of mental & physical problems, this community is in the truest sense my home, family, circle of freinds, what have you.

In times of trouble, without fail someone here has had advice, a comforting word, or just listened. I have done my best to be there for anyone who needed me.

When you are hurting and you put it out there, you always run the risk of people ridiculing you, or making it worse. You also know some will say a kind word and help lessen the pain, by sharing of themselves.

The payoff, in most every case is worth the callousness of the few. For me, the thread helped immensly. Good friends do that for you, and some of those here, are good people of the finest sort.

-Colly

'cause we love you, Colly.

 

[RenzaJones]

I was never impressed by Reagan, he was a president who surrounded himself with bean counters and an easy target for so called subversive comedy. The main reason I wasn't impressed was the effect he had on my country and my neighbourhood in the form of The Thatch and I hate her with a vengeance. So I didn't even visit the 'Poor Ronnie' thread.

OK you want to mourn his passing, that's fine. But the problem, as I see it from a quick scan, is that he was being talked up as the best thing since sliced bread. Is it any wonder then that someone will put in their two penn'orth about how he harmed the US and millions of families with his policies and reaganomics?

As has been said, it's a public forum, not a private room in someone's home. You can't eject hecklers from speaker's corner, the best that you can do is ignore them, which, it seems to me is exactly what should have happened.

Gauche

Like you said you didn't even post or visit the thread, it's not such a hard thing. Yes this is a public forum but that doesn't mean it's all well and good to walk all over peoples emotions free speech or not.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... OK you want to mourn his passing, that's fine. But the problem, as I see it from a quick scan, is that he was being talked up as the best thing since sliced bread...

I have never heard that there was much etiquette involved in an Irish wake.

(Perhaps, that is why this problem arises.)

Sounds like “lace curtain Irish”,* it does, too! And, Ronald Reagan definitely did not come from that stock!

It is important to realize that the wake is a celebration of a life just passed — a sort of "send-off" to the next life, at the time of their death.

In the 19th and early 20th centuries, it also extended to cover departures from Ireland. As a practical matter, the emigrants would not see their neighbors, at least, and often times members of their families during their lifetimes. It became traditional to have a wake-like party on the evening before the emigrant left his home community. The scene, therefor, is one of gaiety mixed with sadness.

Keep in mind the old Irish Proverb:

May you be in heaven a half hour before the Devil knows you're dead!”

* = "Lace curtain Irish" could be as poor as shanty Irish but were notional about being more respectable. They were so called because they would put up lace curtains for appearances sake, even in a shanty town.

 

[gauchecritic]

Sounds like “lace curtain Irish”,*
* = "Lace curtain Irish" could be as poor as shanty Irish but were notional about being more respectable. They were so called because they would put up lace curtains for appearances sake, even in a shanty town.

The version I heard is that they were the ones that would pull the lace curtain aside before they pissed in the sink.

Gauche

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... I heard ... they ... would pull the lace curtain aside before they pissed in the sink...

‘Twas a dirty English lie, to be sure!

 

[Lukie]

been going through this..

I have just lost a best friend...and at the wake...I appreciate hearing the good about him. The fun stories and the good things he's done in life. If you don't feel you can do this at a wake...then don't go!
But I found at lunch or after having drinks..to be the best to help because...people loosen up after the wake...and some really great things come out...people aren't as "formal" - I have found the people who go out after to be still wanting to remember him!
I have to thank all the friends I have had help me during this...

 

[NoJo]

The "respect for the dead" thing is not completely applicable here.

Ronald Reagan was at one point one of the most powerful people in the world, responsible (depending on your point of view) for the well-being or suffering of millions of people.

What he represented, and the position he held, are way, way, more important than what he was like as a human being. Like Ghandi, Kennedy, Stalin, De Gaulle, Churchill or Hitler (compared to which Raegan was obviously pretty small potatoes) it's the death of a world leader that people mourn or celebrate, not just a man.


Edited to add: John Cleese at his good friend Graham Chapman's funeral:

I guess that we're all thinking how sad it is that a man of such talent, such capability and kindness, of such intelligence should now be so suddenly spirited away at the age of only forty-eight, before he'd achieved many of the things of which he was capable, and before he'd had enough fun.

Well, I feel that I should say, "Nonsense. Good riddance to him, the freeloading bastard! I hope he fries. "

 

[hiddenself]

I am so gratified that all of you have such a profound sense of decorum and tact and sensitivity. Some of us that prefer the truth over hollow form and etiquette try a different path. The forum is public, the threads are public (except for closed ones) and if you don't like it hold your pretentious and lying eulogies at your own homes.

I have no doubt that the hundreds of thousands of killed and displaced in Nicaragua would put their misery aside, just to humor your sense of propriety and etiquette. Ditto for the other victims of Reagan's misguided aggression (Grenada, Libya, Iran/Iraq). After all, what matters is to be proper and respectful for a deceased, no?

I am also sure that the millions of black South Africans who suffered needlessly under apartheid because of Reagan's "constriuctive engagement" (= don't rock the boat) policy would be thrilled to hear that he was such a lover of freedom and democracy and that he gave them to Eastern Europe. After all, what mattes is to respect the man and his family, no?

Likewise, I am sure that all the AIDS victims that died because of Reagan's moralizing and his refusal to even acknowledge the problem (much less give money for HIV research) would be ecstatic by all the glorious words heaped on him. After all, what matters is to be sensitive to the solemn moment and the pain of the feelings of the fans, no?

So, sure, let's muzzle those who died, those who suffered, those who paid a price because of wonderful Mr. Reagan's vision and deeds. What matters is that we preserve a perfect decorum for the funeral. And to let the fans bask in the glory of a lie. Sure.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I am so gratified that all of you have such a profound sense of decorum and tact and sensitivity. Some of us that prefer the truth over hollow form and etiquette try a different path. The forum is public, the threads are public (except for closed ones) and if you don't like it hold your pretentious and lying eulogies at your own homes.

I have no doubt that the hundreds of thousands of killed and displaced in Nicaragua would put their misery aside, just to humor your sense of propriety and etiquette. Ditto for the other victims of Reagan's misguided aggression (Grenada, Libya, Iran/Iraq). After all, what matters is to be proper and respectful for a deceased, no?

I am also sure that the millions of black South Africans who suffered needlessly under apartheid because of Reagan's "constriuctive engagement" (= don't rock the boat) policy would be thrilled to hear that he was such a lover of freedom and democracy and that he gave them to Eastern Europe. After all, what mattes is to respect the man and his family, no?

Likewise, I am sure that all the AIDS victims that died because of Reagan's moralizing and his refusal to even acknowledge the problem (much less give money for HIV research) would be ecstatic by all the glorious words heaped on him. After all, what matters is to be sensitive to the solemn moment and the pain of the feelings of the fans, no?

So, sure, let's muzzle those who died, those who suffered, those who paid a price because of wonderful Mr. Reagan's vision and deeds. What matters is that we preserve a perfect decorum for the funeral. And to let the fans bask in the glory of a lie. Sure.

Bullshit. You want to rip the man, open a thread and rip away. Not a damned thing to stop you. No question of decorum. Nothing. No censorship. Open a thread like Pure and let her rip.

In a thread opened by someone who is grieving there is no reason to go off except to be a prick. None. It isn't about censoring your right to bitch and moan, it's about simple courtesy. You can ignore it, that's your right. Most people have the class to either be respectful or just avoid the thread.

Ripping him a thread where someone is hurting serves no purpose at all except to cause pain. That's the only purpose. It's mean, mean spirited and downright trashy. No excuse for it. It's basically gloating and those who do it are taking pleasure inthe wounds they are inflicting. It's sadistic.

-Colly

 

[hiddenself]

You are proper. But a liar in the process.
I am truthful. But improper and insensitive.
Enjoy the comparison.
I have said all I have to say.