How OnlyFans, Fansly and other pay sites have ruined everything...

[tnhardon]

Like much of the online world, the fact that anybody can create and post content now has led to an explosion of variety. We are no longer constrained to what certain magazines choose to show us. This circumstance seems to show some interesting aspects of male (or female) preferences. Many women would be hard pressed to compete with "conventional" models and porn stars based solely on looks, but those traditional mediums also present content that was rote, unimaginative and obviously fake.

Obviously some OF content suffers from the same dynamics, but it leaves room for creativity and ownership of one's content. That allows more niche content and the ability to explore different themes rather than just pumping out images/videos to feed a distribution channel. And it seems to engage a lot of women who wouldn't indulge this sort of thing at all if they had to do it under the control of someone else.

In a way it is a bit like the impact of streaming services. For decades we were fed whatever programming network television wanted to feed us. Most of it was and is absolute garbage. Part of that is the business model and their focus on getting to the widest generic audience to optimize ad revenues and not offend anybody. But part of it is a by-product of the networks' own myopathy and the fact that many creative people do not want to work in that environment.

When we think of any look or theme in erotica or porn, if it is left to the traditional porn industry all we will ever see is drool inducing fluff for the knuckle dragging crowd. Nothing wrong with that. I jerk off to that stuff too. But there is no need to be limited to that.

It definitely opens opportunities to more people. I personally like that it provided more opportunities for more “natural” women. A lot of porn in the past had overly made up women with breast implants and other plastic surgery. I love that we can see a 50 year old mom or a 19 year old college student explore this space and we can appreciate their bodies and sexuality for what they are.

 

[ouchfeelsgood]

I'm actually glad there's a safe way online for women to use their bodies to show off and make money, while not putting themselves in any physical danger. There will always be women (and men of course) who will be willing to offer their "services" in person, for money, but at least there's a safer option now, thanks to technology.

 

[SlutAddicted]

I'm actually glad there's a safe way online for women to use their bodies to show off and make money, while not putting themselves in any physical danger. There will always be women (and men of course) who will be willing to offer their "services" in person, for money, but at least there's a safer option now, thanks to technology.

I think it has drawn some women who never would have participated otherwise and helped them expand their sexual experience/perspective.

 

[Plasmaball]

Womendon’t existjusttoappealtomen

On the basic level yes they do.
Just like on the basic level men exist to appeal to women.

 

[eric_erosfan]

On the basic level yes they do.
Just like on the basic level men exist to appeal to women.

A lot of women have checked out of that game bro. Many have such terrible experiences with men they don't even want to bother anymore. And the incel population increases.

 

[KatieDoes]

On the basic level yes they do.
Just like on the basic level men exist to appeal to women.

If only

No… they’ll insist that I’m wrong. That we can’t possibly know what women think or how women feel without them explaining it to us.

Because they know a disproportionate number of women that place male approval as a top priority.

And they lack the self awareness to grasp that it’s because women that know their worth don’t fuck with dudes like them

Thanks, exhibit A.

 

[Plasmaball]

A lot of women have checked out of that game bro. Many have such terrible experiences with men they don't even want to bother anymore. And the incel population increases.

Incels are a huge problem, but the internet has created a way for everyone to become bullies.

 

[Plasmaball]

Thanks, exhibit A.

Lol..no its a deeper context than your silly statement.

On the basic level women are Here for men, and men for women.

This idea that there is more to a woman is a modern concept that is unique to humans.

It's a societal thing more than a natural-nature thing that requires a little more in depth than your simple statement. But you didn't do that because you wanted to bait certain types of men into responding to you so you could do this nonsense.

But instead of actually thinking about what I said you will come back with some weak feminist crap or something.

On the whole ( and this is the part you will skip) the idea that there more to a woman is correct. There is. You think it's coming from the idea that I'm a man telling a woman what to say and think..nope. that chip on your shoulder is the problem.

 

[KatieDoes]

Lol..no its a deeper context than your silly statement.

On the basic level women are Here for men, and men for women.

This idea that there is more to a woman is a modern concept that is unique to humans.

It's a societal thing more than a natural-nature thing that requires a little more in depth than your simple statement. But you didn't do that because you wanted to bait certain types of men into responding to you so you could do this nonsense.

But instead of actually thinking about what I said you will come back with some weak feminist crap or something.

On the whole ( and this is the part you will skip) the idea that there more to a woman is correct. There is. You think it's coming from the idea that I'm a man telling a woman what to say and think..nope. that chip on your shoulder is the problem.

Except that I’m here for women, and I find amazing, strong, sexy, captivating women when I post here.

I found the one man on lit that I‘m into. I don’t need any more. I’m strictly here for women.


The way you keep embarrassing yourself with your inept posting leads me to suspect that you have a bit of a humiliation kink. I wish you well, but I’m not interested in giving you material for that. So I’ll not be engaging you further. I hope you find what youre looking for. Good luck.

 

[Escierto]

Whenever someone says something like “weak feminist crap” I know exactly what we are dealing with. Life must be rough for these guys today. All those uppity women to get their blood pressure up.

 

[stickygirl]

...weak feminist crap
just wow

 

[Plasmaball]

Except that I’m here for women, and I find amazing, strong, sexy, captivating women when I post here.

I found the one man on lit that I‘m into. I don’t need any more. I’m strictly here for women.

Irrelevant

The way you keep embarrassing yourself with your inept posting leads me to suspect that you have a bit of a humiliation kink. I wish you well, but I’m not interested in giving you material for that. So I’ll not be engaging you further. I hope you find what youre looking for. Good luck.

Your suspect is wrong. I figured you would skip the main point for some sort of nonsense.

My posting is fine. You are the issue. You just aren't a smart person which had nothing to do with your gender because we both know you'll try to use that as a crutch on here.

 

[Plasmaball]

...weak feminist crap
just wow

She trying to use it as a hammer to bash men with it.
There is nothing wrong with feminism unless it gets used in a certain way.
Just like everything else you will have more extreme people using it in ways that make the cause look less appealing. That's how I view her opinions.

You can disagree if you want, but that's how I see her.

 

[KatieDoes]

Whenever someone says something like “weak feminist crap” I know exactly what we are dealing with. Life must be rough for these guys today. All those uppity women to get their blood pressure up.

It’s only weak men that get all
emotional and in their feelings when dealing with strong women. Good, strong, genuine men dig women with opinions that know their worth.

Weeding out the riffraff

 

[stickygirl]

She trying to use it as a hammer to bash men with it.
There is nothing wrong with feminism unless it gets used in a certain way.
Just like everything else you will have more extreme people using it in ways that make the cause look less appealing. That's how I view her opinions.

You can disagree if you want, but that's how I see her.

But all you do is react with vitriol and anger. If you take a swing at feminist 'crap' you don't put yourself in a favourable light. Respond to the argument, not the emotion.
I've largely been a bystander to this and I'm sure there are numerous other people lurking to witness the thread. As for the OP, who one might think had the balls to respond, there's nothing to be seen. I still think, as I posted elsewhere, he's a troll throw grenades for fun. It worked.

 

[Plasmaball]

But all you do is react with vitriol and anger. If you take a swing at feminist 'crap' you don't put yourself in a favourable light. Respond to the argument, not the emotion.
I've largely been a bystander to this and I'm sure there are numerous other people lurking to witness the thread. As for the OP, who one might think had the balls to respond, there's nothing to be seen. I still think, as I posted elsewhere, he's a troll throw grenades for fun. It worked.

Yeah I'm agreeing with you on the op. Shit stirrer it seems that wants to get i think the more hard-core pro women feminists to go crazy.

Ah...that's the issue with message boards. You don't know me so you have to imply how my words come across. Instead of just asking you assume it's anger.

It's not. I'm just blunt and to the point. You may disagree with my point but it's not anger. When I'm mad I seem to drop a lot of fucks in my text because it's like how fucking stupid can one be to constantly lie about a topic.( not directed at you, just am example)


Just like the op has an agenda I feel Katie does as well. She is trying to do the same crap as the op by going all harder feminist than it needs to be.

 

[Nicola32]

There was a time when some of the stunning women, or women with incredible bodies or huge breasts were available for personal appointments, because that's how they made their living. As soon as OnlyFans and the other pay sites came along, all those most gorgeous and sexually exciting women became unavailable to men--and I don't blame them, why meet strange men for sex when you can make just as much money or more by posting pics and videos of yourself. Amouranth, the queen of all these women, has so far made $30M on OnlyFans. Yep. The money is insane because men are stupid and in a fit of pre-orgasm fervor will punch in their credit card number to get at those videos they then cum to.
The point I'm trying to make though is, what do we do about it? Is it still possible to meet some of these women? If so, how?

There are plenty of dating websites.

 

[policywank]

The idea that women are here for men generally is flawed. Our lives are integrated, but that isn't the same thing. My life is also integrated with trees, insects and air. But co-existing with those things does not put me in service to them or them to me. Nor does it make either of us the other's raison d'être.

Men wish women were here for them and have worked very hard to construct a framework through which they can imagine that to be true because they want to possess us. If and when that doesn't work they resort to derogatory references to feminism and the proposition that we are actually mutually dependent as an alternative to dominance based female dependency.

Feminism is easy to poke holes in if you disregard individuality. I regard myself as a feminist yet I disagree with some things that other feminists say on the subject. That statement is not in conflict with itself because feminism isn't some definition and text etched in stone to which we must all subscribe. It is simply a perspective on standing up for one's rights as a woman. It doesn't oblige us all to agree about what that means to us personally. It is human nature to see the diversity in one's own group - even misogynist men don't all subscribe to the same brand of misogyny - and imagine other groups to be homogenous. But it is also an indicator of someone who sees the "other" group primarily through the lens of their own wants and desires. Anyone who ascribes specific views to me because I am a feminist is choosing to not see me as an individual and thereby misunderstands me and my gender.

To the extent that some men recognize that women don't need them in the traditional sense of being weaker or wanting to be dominated, those men need to find a fall back position to assert their necessity and equality. They need to find a version of mutual dependence. If nothing else they will revert to the necessity of sperm for procreation.

The reality is that men and women are part of one another's lives. We are at least integrated if not dependent. But when it comes to sexual dynamics in a modern world (the subject of this thread) women hold the upper hand. When guys pull out all the tired old tropes about gender roles and the intrinsic nature of each gender that is just the manifestation of their insecurity. It usually comes from the guys who know that in a world where women have choice those men won't be chosen. Unfortunately for those guys men are not a cohesive group committed to the universal oppression of women. A large portion of men have broken away from that tired old way of thinking.

Whether or not there is a mutual dependency between genders is an interesting question. On some level there is, but that is sort of beside the point. In the modern world, women are not more dependent on men than vice versa. Having a penis doesn't qualify you for anything other than being a dick. And I have the latitude to choose to be here for the men that I want to be here for and there are plenty of men willing to engage such a relationship on terms acceptable to me.

The issue highlight in this thread isn't whether women can do without men, it is whether we can do without men who wish to control us. The former is an anthropological question to which the ultimate answer is no. The latter is a practical question to which the answer is clearly yes.

 

[butters]

i'm here for the poetry, the political forum, and the occasional GB thread. definitely not here "just to appeal to men," lol, even "on a basic level," as plasmaball suggests all women are. If people like me, whatever their sex and gender, all well and good... but it's not my reason for being here.

 

[Sean]

Yeah I'm agreeing with you on the op. Shit stirrer it seems that wants to get i think the more hard-core pro women feminists to go crazy.

As opposed to those notorious anti-women feminists.

 

[Plasmaball]

As opposed to those notorious anti-women feminists.

What about them?

 

[Dionysian Beast]

https://i.imgur.com/sozBi1b.gif

 

[Domwoolf]

What people refuse to admit is that we are all here basically for ourselves. Very few truly have altruistic motives. To deny that is lying to ourselves, which most people are very good at.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

The idea that women are here for men generally is flawed. Our lives are integrated, but that isn't the same thing. My life is also integrated with trees, insects and air. But co-existing with those things does not put me in service to them or them to me. Nor does it make either of us the other's raison d'être.

Men wish women were here for them and have worked very hard to construct a framework through which they can imagine that to be true because they want to possess us. If and when that doesn't work they resort to derogatory references to feminism and the proposition that we are actually mutually dependent as an alternative to dominance based female dependency.

Feminism is easy to poke holes in if you disregard individuality. I regard myself as a feminist yet I disagree with some things that other feminists say on the subject. That statement is not in conflict with itself because feminism isn't some definition and text etched in stone to which we must all subscribe. It is simply a perspective on standing up for one's rights as a woman. It doesn't oblige us all to agree about what that means to us personally. It is human nature to see the diversity in one's own group - even misogynist men don't all subscribe to the same brand of misogyny - and imagine other groups to be homogenous. But it is also an indicator of someone who sees the "other" group primarily through the lens of their own wants and desires. Anyone who ascribes specific views to me because I am a feminist is choosing to not see me as an individual and thereby misunderstands me and my gender.

To the extent that some men recognize that women don't need them in the traditional sense of being weaker or wanting to be dominated, those men need to find a fall back position to assert their necessity and equality. They need to find a version of mutual dependence. If nothing else they will revert to the necessity of sperm for procreation.

The reality is that men and women are part of one another's lives. We are at least integrated if not dependent. But when it comes to sexual dynamics in a modern world (the subject of this thread) women hold the upper hand. When guys pull out all the tired old tropes about gender roles and the intrinsic nature of each gender that is just the manifestation of their insecurity. It usually comes from the guys who know that in a world where women have choice those men won't be chosen. Unfortunately for those guys men are not a cohesive group committed to the universal oppression of women. A large portion of men have broken away from that tired old way of thinking.

Whether or not there is a mutual dependency between genders is an interesting question. On some level there is, but that is sort of beside the point. In the modern world, women are not more dependent on men than vice versa. Having a penis doesn't qualify you for anything other than being a dick. And I have the latitude to choose to be here for the men that I want to be here for and there are plenty of men willing to engage such a relationship on terms acceptable to me.

The issue highlight in this thread isn't whether women can do without men, it is whether we can do without men who wish to control us. The former is an anthropological question to which the ultimate answer is no. The latter is a practical question to which the answer is clearly yes.

Maybe I haven't read through this entire thread closely enough, or maybe I have a blind spot because I have a dick, but that is not the way I understood the OP's original point. I thought he was making a point about the economics of sex work. He has a fantasy of having sex with a woman he finds to be unattainably beautiful and desirable. I looked at a few of his other posts, and this fantasy seems to be driven by his own insecurities exacerbated by what he sees as his advancing age. He seems to be willing to pay and, presumably, pay well, to have such an experience.

His complaint is that women who might otherwise be willing to provide in-person sexual services are unavailable because they can make a good living by providing virtual services and therefore will not take his money to do things with his dick. While he does not show any particular insight or interest in the motivations of the women who provide such services, his complaint is directed at the male market. He finds virtual sex services to be unsatisfying and a waste of money, and complains that the men who partake of such services are cutting into the market of available IRL sex workers. If there is a group that he is dismissing based on a stereotype, it is more the male customers for OF.

I would challenge his underlying assumption that OF is cutting into the market for IRL sexual services. There are ample resources for finding the type of woman he seems to want. The market may be more difficult to access because of FOSTA and lingering fears generated by the pandemic, but OF is at most a minor factor.

 

[policywank]

Maybe I haven't read through this entire thread closely enough, or maybe I have a blind spot because I have a dick, but that is not the way I understood the OP's original point. I thought he was making a point about the economics of sex work. He has a fantasy of having sex with a woman he finds to be unattainably beautiful and desirable. I looked at a few of his other posts, and this fantasy seems to be driven by his own insecurities exacerbated by what he sees as his advancing age. He seems to be willing to pay and, presumably, pay well, to have such an experience.

His complaint is that women who might otherwise be willing to provide in-person sexual services are unavailable because they can make a good living by providing virtual services and therefore will not take his money to do things with his dick. While he does not show any particular insight or interest in the motivations of the women who provide such services, his complaint is directed at the male market. He finds virtual sex services to be unsatisfying and a waste of money, and complains that the men who partake of such services are cutting into the market of available IRL sex workers. If there is a group that he is dismissing based on a stereotype, it is more the male customers for OF.

I would challenge his underlying assumption that OF is cutting into the market for IRL sexual services. There are ample resources for finding the type of woman he seems to want. The market may be more difficult to access because of FOSTA and lingering fears generated by the pandemic, but OF is at most a minor factor.

My post that you are responding to with this comment was geared to part of the ongoing discussion more so than the OP.

As you say the OP is more focussed on the economics of sex work and how they have been affected by OF. The issue many of us have identified is that he clearly recognizes that the women he desires do not want to be with him unless he pays them and they have no viable alternative to make similar amounts of money. By lamenting the existence of OF as an alternative and asking "what is to be done" he is in essence lamenting the fact that women have choice/alternatives and seeking to curtail those choices or otherwise encourage women to give him what he wants.

That isn't just a point about the economics of sex work. It is about how to control women by limiting their choices which has been part of the formula for female oppression for much of history.