How obvious!!!!

[AG31]

For almost three years I've been wrestling with the notion that erotica without plot or character (simple erotica) can be deserving of artistic respect. More respect than is connoted by the term "stroker." Then it finally hit me!

Simple erotica stories aren't stories about people.

They are stories about the experience of eroticism. That's all.

It's no more appropriate to criticize simple erotica for lacking plot and character than it would be to levy the same criticism on a literary depiction of the Grand Canyon, or an essay on Bach's Goldberg Variations, or a paean to the physical sensations of yoga or surfing. Just because the human body is the locus for the writing doesn't mean the story has to be about a person in their wholeness. What about a book of jokes? Often (usually?) featuring people. It has its focus on evoking laughter instead of arousal. It would be ridiculous to criticize it for lacking plot or character.

Does this make sense?

Visit this thread if you're confused about the term "simple erotica."

 

[KeithD]

Yes, I've written works focused on the experience of the act. It didn't really mean anything who the characters were--where they'd come from or where they were going from here. They were here, now, working of becoming one melding machine.

 

[vagrantx]

There's beauty in simplicity.

Nothing in life needs to be complex to evoke feelings. Some people enjoy watching Embrace of the Vampire in its entirety, some people are content with a still frame of Alyssa Milano.

I believe leaving more things unsaid lets the reader fill in the blanks with their own imagery, and I think the readers imagination is the most powerful tool a writer has at their disposal; how to guide, without commanding.

 

[Paul_Chance]

For almost three years I've been wrestling with the notion that erotica without plot or character (simple erotica) can be deserving of artistic respect. More respect than is connoted by the term "stroker." Then it finally hit me!

Simple erotica stories aren't stories about people.

They are stories about the experience of eroticism. That's all.

It's no more appropriate to criticize simple erotica for lacking plot and character than it would be to levy the same criticism on a literary depiction of the Grand Canyon, or an essay on Bach's Goldberg Variations, or a paean to the physical sensations of yoga or surfing. Just because the human body is the locus for the writing doesn't mean the story has to be about a person in their wholeness.

Does this make sense?

Visit this thread if you're confused about the term "simple erotica."

It does.

What you're talking about is a classic vignette, in our case, an erotic vignette.

Here's a nice little article explaining what a vignette is, the rules (there are almost none), and some examples.

https://www.wikihow.com/Write-a-Vignette#Preparing to Write the Vignette

 

[AchtungNight]

I have never written the sort of story about simple erotic expression that you describe. It's more my style to describe the involved characters and their motivation for erotic acts as well as the acts themselves. But I do not see any reason to fault your tastes for the act itself. If I am familiar with a story enough to remember its circumstances, I have no problem skipping to the act of eroticism that story's plot includes. So I guess we share tastes somewhat.

 

[AG31]

It does.

What you're talking about is a classic vignette, in our case, an erotic vignette.

Here's a nice little article explaining what a vignette is, the rules (there are almost none), and some examples.

https://www.wikihow.com/Write-a-Vignette#Preparing to Write the Vignette

Thanks for this!

 

[ElectricBlue]

It does.

What you're talking about is a classic vignette, in our case, an erotic vignette.

Here's a nice little article explaining what a vignette is, the rules (there are almost none), and some examples.

https://www.wikihow.com/Write-a-Vignette#Preparing to Write the Vignette

This is why the 750 Word stories are such a good exercise - but even in a vignette, you can still have the character elements that @AG31 prefers not to see. Although, she'll admit it, she loves some of my sentences, and will even tolerate the women attached to them .

 

[TheRedChamber]

I'm reminded of how a lot of Science Fiction stories were criticized for having badly defined or wooden characters often by literary reviewers. Sci-Fi fans often don't care (or care less) because what they enjoy is the idea or the grand concept of the story.

I would describe myself as bisexual and heteroromantic and I think that shows in my (minority) gay stories against my (majority) straight ones. The gay stories are all about the act, whereas the straight ones are almost always more about the person. (My lesbian stories are 'straight' in this respect as again I like a woman with character). I've tried writing straight stories in the same direct stroker vein as my gay ones and I struggle with it. Similarly, in theory it should be easy to take an idea for a heterosexual story, flip one of the genders and write a more ambitious and emotional gay story, but I doubt I ever will.

 

[AG31]

The gay stories are all about the act, whereas the straight ones are almost always more about the person.

I think that's one reason I enjoy GM stories. That, and they're always about men, and I like men.

 

[StillStunned]

I don't think it's quite to straightforward. Take two of my strokers, for instance:

Lily in the Springtime: 2.7k words, and nearly all of it is sex or the build-up to sex.

The Code: 4.8k words, but the sex scene doesn't begin until after more than 2.5k. The first 500 words establish the FMC's background and personality, there's another 500 words before her future sex partner makes an appearance, and there's another 500 words after the sex scene. Even so, I wouldn't describe it as anything other than a stroker.

That said, I agree that strokers prioritise action over character or plot. I just don't think they necessarily preclude them, particularly character.

 

[AG31]

I just don't think they necessarily preclude them, particularly character.

Right. "Preclude" would be too strong. More "pay little or no attention to them." But for myself, the establishment of background and personality before the eroticism kicks in is a distraction. I say "eroticism," because there can be a lot of arousing narrative before the actual sex kicks in. But simply establishing background and personality usually is a sign for me to move on.

I've cited @ElectricBlue's simple erotica (some of his stories, not all) as being an exception in that for him intimacy is at the core of eroticism, and it's pretty hard to portray intimacy without telling us a little about character.

 

[AG31]

@StillStunned, @ElectricBlue,

I'm not sure this is in direct response to either one of you, but it just keeps rolling around in my mind. Here are four stories that I think are outstanding examples of praiseworthy simple erotica. All by EB.

Songs of Seduction - Water, The Floating World - Part 4, Tied up by a Mistress and Her Maid, The Ice Angel

Thoughts?

 

[samhasstories]

I think you have a point in that eroticism drives whatever plot there is, rather than the other way around. That's certainly true of my stories. I'll readily embrace the term 'stroker' for the erotica I've written. But I would be reluctant to say they aren't about people. I'm not trying to unearth some hidden insights into the human condition; but I find the erotica more erotic if I'm able to get to know the characters a little bit first, and develop some tension before the ultimate release. That's why I write erotic fiction instead of just watching blowjobs on pornhub or whatever. But the release (or releases) is what I'm working toward from the first sentence.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

There was a guy. He posted a lot of cock sucking short stories. About two dozen. I don't know his name. Maybe somebody knows it.
Nothing but anonymous cock sucking in his writing.
He wasn't a bad writer, either.
I read three or four of his stories, then got bored. Maybe sucking cock is just not my thing.

 

[ElectricBlue]

@StillStunned, @ElectricBlue,

I'm not sure this is in direct response to either one of you, but it just keeps rolling around in my mind. Here are four stories that I think are outstanding examples of praiseworthy simple erotica. All by EB.

Songs of Seduction - Water, The Floating World - Part 4, Tied up by a Mistress and Her Maid, The Ice Angel

Thoughts?

I'm intrigued that you cite these four as examples, because in my mind all but the last are story oriented, with characters established with personality, movement through a plot (although Tied up is minimalist plot wise, it's more like a staged event - which in effect it was, a bit of erotic theatre). The Ice Angel is a vignette, there is no story really, but there's intimacy and the woman's personality (as you observed, the MC is asleep through most of it, and it might in fact be his dream, just as much as it might be hers).

I've commented before to @SimonDoom that my stories are generally less "dramatic" or angst filled than many other writers'. There's rarely much Sturm und Drang. And ages ago, @AwkwardMD said of The Floating World - Part 1, there's not much plot, but lots of walking around - her point being, not much story in the more literary three or five arc sense. She's right - but they are short stories, albeit some longer than others.

I commented to both that my stories are more about mood than movement, a collection of small intimate moments whose only purpose on a page is to be "erotic", but always to be about people, not just their bodies. In that sense, they're "erotica", not "porn", to air that hoary old distinction.

There's rarely any other explicit or implicit "purpose" behind my stories other than to be erotic. Perhaps that's part of your hoped for definition, of simple erotica? Anais Nin, not Norman Mailer.

 

[AG31]

I'm intrigued that you cite these four as examples, because in my mind all but the last are story oriented, with characters established with personality, movement through a plot

Not really a plot, I'd say. Just enough stuff happening for the eroticism. Yes, as you note below, the "characters" are revealed through the intimacy.

I commented to both that my stories are more about mood than movement, a collection of small intimate moments whose only purpose on a page is to be "erotic", but always to be about people, not just their bodies. In that sense, they're "erotica", not "porn", to air that hoary old distinction.

They're about mood (arousal), and the arousal begins from the first paragraph. There's not a sentence that doesn't propel us into arousal. You don't distract us with "establish(ing) the FMC's background and personality."

There's rarely any other explicit or implicit "purpose" behind my stories other than to be erotic. Perhaps that's part of your hoped for definition, of simple erotica? Anais Nin, not Norman Mailer.

Yes. That pretty much nails it, with the caveat that you could say "behind my paragraphs" instead of "behind my stories."

Isn't it, like 4:30 in Australia??????

 

[M_K_Babalon]

For almost three years I've been wrestling with the notion that erotica without plot or character (simple erotica) can be deserving of artistic respect. More respect than is connoted by the term "stroker." Then it finally hit me!

Simple erotica stories aren't stories about people.

They are stories about the experience of eroticism. That's all.

It's no more appropriate to criticize simple erotica for lacking plot and character than it would be to levy the same criticism on a literary depiction of the Grand Canyon, or an essay on Bach's Goldberg Variations, or a paean to the physical sensations of yoga or surfing. Just because the human body is the locus for the writing doesn't mean the story has to be about a person in their wholeness.

Does this make sense?

Visit this thread if you're confused about the term "simple erotica."

I told you... simple eroticas plots are like most non-softcore(even those aren't always excused) porn plots; a contrived excuse for two people to fuck. Now you get it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Not really a plot, I'd say. Just enough stuff happening for the eroticism. Yes, as you note below, the "characters" are revealed through the intimacy.

They're about mood (arousal), and the arousal begins from the first paragraph. There's not a sentence that doesn't propel us into arousal. You don't distract us with "establish(ing) the FMC's background and personality."

Yes. That pretty much nails it, with the caveat that you could say "behind my paragraphs" instead of "behind my stories."

Isn't it, like 4:30 in Australia??????

No, it's about eight in the morning. You might be looking at Perth time.

What you're basically saying is that every paragraph is permeated with something erotic, and I don't start with back story and tedious infodumps - which is a fairly constant refrain in the Feedback Forum to new writers - don't do that.

As I said to AMD, my writing is more about mood than it is about plot, which is, I think, why it works. Maybe it is simple erotica, after all .

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I don't think it's quite to straightforward. Take two of my strokers, for instance:

Lily in the Springtime: 2.7k words, and nearly all of it is sex or the build-up to sex.

The Code: 4.8k words, but the sex scene doesn't begin until after more than 2.5k. The first 500 words establish the FMC's background and personality, there's another 500 words before her future sex partner makes an appearance, and there's another 500 words after the sex scene. Even so, I wouldn't describe it as anything other than a stroker.

That said, I agree that strokers prioritise action over character or plot. I just don't think they necessarily preclude them, particularly character.

I wouldn't consider the second one a true stroker, it kinda reminds me of the porn I've seen on Skinemax, where there's enough plot for a storyline. Unlike; "here's your pizza," and "here's your tip," drops robe, throws pizza to the floor and drags delivery driver to the couch with the door wide open. Something I was hoping for, but all I got was to see some guys huge Marilyn Monroe memrobilia collection.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I think that's one reason I enjoy GM stories. That, and they're always about men, and I like men.

One of my 750 submissions is all about sucking uncut dick. You could easily imagine it as two guys doing it. It's not specific on what's sucking and what has the dick to be sucked, intentionally. It's some of the simplest erotica, if I do say so, myself.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I think you have a point in that eroticism drives whatever plot there is, rather than the other way around. That's certainly true of my stories. I'll readily embrace the term 'stroker' for the erotica I've written. But I would be reluctant to say they aren't about people. I'm not trying to unearth some hidden insights into the human condition; but I find the erotica more erotic if I'm able to get to know the characters a little bit first, and develop some tension before the ultimate release. That's why I write erotic fiction instead of just watching blowjobs on pornhub or whatever. But the release (or releases) is what I'm working toward from the first sentence.

I've seen several writers interviewed, or writers youtubers say that characters are the plot, without them, there's no plot, thus no story. So whatever the characters are doing creates the story, it's not that eroticisn drives the plot, it's them being erotic that creates the plot, even if it seemingly is hardly there. This makes sense to me. Nobody's going to read about a empty bedroom.

I actually just had a good laugh, I was just reminded of a story I wrote years ago about a literal fly on the wall, watching two people have sex.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

No, it's about eight in the morning. You might be looking at Perth time.

What you're basically saying is that every paragraph is permeated with something erotic, and I don't start with back story and tedious infodumps - which is a fairly constant refrain in the Feedback Forum to new writers - don't do that.

As I said to AMD, my writing is more about mood than it is about plot, which is, I think, why it works. Maybe it is simple erotica, after all .

It's 5pm here in Kentucky. Time zones are weird. Is it still yesterday there?

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's 5pm here in Kentucky. Time zones are weird. Is it still yesterday there?

No. It's you guys who are always yesterday.

Oz is always in your future. Remember that .

 

[M_K_Babalon]

No. It's you guys who are always yesterday.

Oz is always in your future. Remember that .

Ah yes, we are the shadow of tomorrow, I suppose.

 

[AG31]

What you're basically saying is that every paragraph is permeated with something erotic, and I don't start with back story and tedious infodumps - which is a fairly constant refrain in the Feedback Forum to new writers - don't do that.

OK. On with refining my definition. Simple erotica's plots always are in direct service to eroticism (arousal? which is best?). How is that??? @StillStunned, I'm thinking that "establishing" character and personality are not in "direct service." Doesn't mean they're bad or wrong, just that they don't qualify as "simple erotica."

As I said to AMD, my writing is more about mood than it is about plot, which is, I think, why it works. Maybe it is simple erotica, after all .

Yeah... maybe it is!!!