How important is cock description?

[FelixPick]

I suppose as people of sensuality and physicality, we want the best we can get. We want the full knowledge of a subject, an clear understanding. No fact undiscovered, no corner dusted for clues! But being subtle with erotica, I guess, less is more. I don't know?

Agree? Disagree?

Disagree, I think that the human imagination is a wonderful thing that doesn't absolutely need every nook and cranny spelled out for them. Allow their imaginations to fill in the details. I especially think this idea/practice is needed in the telling of an erotic tale, because you want your story to be good for as many people as possible and if your description of someone or something (something in this case) isn't what they find attractive, you might lose the interest of that reader. I think describing the looks of someone, or their appendages, should be handled with a bit of vagueness and in generalities rather than specifics, excepting, of course, the characters' defining or distinctive traits (eye color, hair color, scars, tattoos, etc.).

A side note: If you're writing your stories in the first person do you describe that character/narrator? If so, how, or better yet, when? I don't know about you guys, but I don't often think about exactly how I look outside of specific instances, so I don't tend to write specific descriptions unless that character is getting ready for a date, for example, and is looking at himself in the mirror.

 

[sr71plt]

Disagree, I think that the human imagination is a wonderful thing that doesn't absolutely need every nook and cranny spelled out for them. Allow their imaginations to fill in the details. I especially think this idea/practice is needed in the telling of an erotic tale, because you want your story to be good for as many people as possible and if your description of someone or something (something in this case) isn't what they find attractive, you might lose the interest of that reader. I think describing the looks of someone, or their appendages, should be handled with a bit of vagueness and in generalities rather than specifics, excepting, of course, the characters' defining or distinctive traits (eye color, hair color, scars, tattoos, etc.).

A side note: If you're writing your stories in the first person do you describe that character/narrator? If so, how, or better yet, when? I don't know about you guys, but I don't often think about exactly how I look outside of specific instances, so I don't tend to write specific descriptions unless that character is getting ready for a date, for example, and is looking at himself in the mirror.

Agree with your first paragraph.

I try not to use the old mirror chestnut. If I want any aspect of the narrator character spelled out in a first-person story, I have another character (subtiley, I hope) slip it in or have it identified through some sort of action (e.g., I went down on my knees and twitched as the head of my dick brushed against the nubby carpet. )

 

[FelixPick]

Agree with your first paragraph.

I try not to use the old mirror chestnut. If I want any aspect of the narrator character spelled out in a first-person story, I have another character (subtiley, I hope) slip it in or have it identified through some sort of action (e.g., I went down on my knees and twitched as the head of my dick brushed against the nubby carpet. )

Well, to be more clear, in the side note I was referring to those long paragraphs that detail the character in their entirety. I do describe the parts of the body that ARE visible to the narrator in a first person perspective story when he uses that part like: I rolled the roughly calloused thumb of my right hand over her hardening nipple. I know not exactly the most amazing bit of writing there, but it was just a quick example of how I'd slowly put together a general description of the character throughout the story, instead of just throwing it all together in one place. Even when I do write those sort of blocks of text describing a character I tend to reveal more as I write and not leave everything in one place. I hope most of this makes any sort of sense.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, that's that's the usual advice given on how to do it well. You're not doing anything different or revolutionary than many others are.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm with pilot-- if my character looks at themselves in a mirror, they are either vain-- which can be fun in itself-- or else checking out the bruises their lover left last night. And I tend to have my characters look at themselves critically. But even so, you can slip in a bit of description.

 

[FelixPick]

Yes, that's that's the usual advice given on how to do it well. You're not doing anything different or revolutionary than many others are.

oh im not suggesting that I am, rofl.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm with pilot-- if my character looks at themselves in a mirror, they are either vain-- which can be fun in itself-- or else checking out the bruises their lover left last night. And I tend to have my characters look at themselves critically. But even so, you can slip in a bit of description.

In the story I wrote last night, the main character looks in a mirror (on the wall behind a bar) to realize for the first time that's he's old, having just been hit to pay for it for the first time in his life.

 

[sr71plt]

oh im not suggesting that I am, rofl.

That's great. Your post gave me the impression that you thought I was suggesting some different approach.

 

[FelixPick]

In the story I wrote last night, the main character looks in a mirror (on the wall behind a bar) to realize for the first time that's he's old, having just been hit to pay for it for the first time in his life.

Interesting, have you submitted it to the Lit/are you going to?

That's great. Your post gave me the impression that you thought I was suggesting some different approach.

Nope, sorry if I gave that impression.

 

[sr71plt]

Interesting, have you submitted it to the Lit/are you going to?

Yes, but it first gets published in an anthology. And I'm backlogged a good six months in stories to post to Lit. anyway.

It's a GM story. A guy in his late thirties is thinking of breaking away from his live-in of about 15 years who is running down (tired from doing everything for the main character, although the main character doesn't seem to realize that) and getting old. He has a job prospect in the Keys and so adds on a wild weekend in Key West, driving his Jag down there from Miami. It takes him a while to realize that he also has gotten old and is out of the game. The first guy goes with him--but only to get a ride in the Jag. The second guy gives him a price. That's when he looks in the mirror. The third guy, who is from the local office the main character visits, gives him sex--but then hits him up for a promotion. It ends with the main character realizing that he has what he wants--and all he can handle/deserves--at home already.

 

[FelixPick]

Yes, but it first gets published in an anthology. And I'm backlogged a good six months in stories to post to Lit. anyway.

It's a GM story. A guy in his late thirties is thinking of breaking away from his live-in of about 15 years who is running down (tired from doing everything for the main character, although the main character doesn't seem to realize that) and getting old. He has a job prospect in the Keys and so adds on a wild weekend in Key West, driving his Jag down there from Miami. It takes him a while to realize that he also has gotten old and is out of the game. The first guy goes with him--but only to get a ride in the Jag. The second guy gives him a price. That's when he looks in the mirror. The third guy, who is from the local office the main character visits, gives him sex--but then hits him up for a promotion. It ends with the main character realizing that he has what he wants--and all he can handle/deserves--at home already.

Sounds like a great story, though not to my preferences, I'd read it and skip over the sexy bits lol.

 

[sr71plt]

Sounds like a great story, though not to my preferences, I'd read it and skip over the sexy bits lol.

I think it could just as easily be written up as a MF story.

 

[FelixPick]

I think it could just as easily be written up as a MF story.

I agree, but either way the story itself is interesting.

 

[JustaSCOUNDREL]

LOL

Actually, I read a story on Lit that used the (generic) soda can comparison. I don't remember enough about it to find it again. I think it was interracial, with a black woman and a white guy, but I can't be sure.

Great description, ben, but the problem is... I don't like beer.

Then my dear you have never tried PA's finest brew Yueng Ling in all of its many variations. Never drink beer from a can, it ruins the taste, always bottles.

O.K. Penn Lady just kidding I know if you don't like the taste of something a minor change in flavor will not change your mind but Yueng Ling really is a good beer and you should serve it at all of your soirees. (G) At least a some for those who indulge.

Mike

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I read a ton of M/M, and when there's a detailed physical description of a penis, I can often guess whether it's been written by a man or a woman.

Men tend to just describe the visual image. Women tend to include the feelings of the person looking at the dick.

As a female who writes gay male, you always make me feel a little guilty.

Is it bad if I look more at the feelings then the physical description?

I always wonder... 'Would Stella approve? Or is my cursed vagina-mind leaking through?'

 

[PennLady]

Then my dear you have never tried PA's finest brew Yueng Ling in all of its many variations. Never drink beer from a can, it ruins the taste, always bottles.

O.K. Penn Lady just kidding I know if you don't like the taste of something a minor change in flavor will not change your mind but Yueng Ling really is a good beer and you should serve it at all of your soirees. (G) At least a some for those who indulge.

Mike

LOL Thanks. I think this is just one of those things -- I just don't like beer, and for the same reason I don't like coffee. Generally, it's just too bitter for me. However, I've some lighter (not light/lite) beers that aren't too bad. Given a choice, though, I'd probably have some iced tea.

 

[ishtat]

LOL Thanks. I think this is just one of those things -- I just don't like beer, and for the same reason I don't like coffee. Generally, it's just too bitter for me. However, I've some lighter (not light/lite) beers that aren't too bad. Given a choice, though, I'd probably have some iced tea.

I used to visit a bank in Switzerland quite often, and one of my best memories of Zurich is that the coffee was so good and never bitter.

 

[Stella_Omega]

As a female who writes gay male, you always make me feel a little guilty.

Is it bad if I look more at the feelings then the physical description?

I always wonder... 'Would Stella approve? Or is my cursed vagina-mind leaking through?'

Yeah, I DO approve! I'm sorry I didn't make that clear!

The lack of emotional subtlety is where many men fall down in writing. (not all men, gentlemen, there are plenty of guys who Get It)

And actually, men seem to prefer women-written M/M to male-written. Women give a voice to the feelings they are often unable to express even though they do feel them... So yeah. I do approve.

Conversely, the point where many women fail is in forgetting that physical action exists-- also in investing their male characters with estrogen-driven emotions that men rarely have in such strength. It's embarrassing to read some male character bawling like a fountain over his love interest. That does happen in real life, but not with the ease that women do it.

 

[sr71plt]

And actually, men seem to prefer women-written M/M to male-written.

Hmmm. Where is that evidenced? Where is the evidenciary handle on the male/female reader divide?

My observation is that more females read GM than male readers do--but that's only anecdotal based on the apparent sex of readers contacting me on GM stories and/or favoriting them.

But that's no handle at all on what male readers of M/M prefer in the way of an author gender.

The only thing close to evidence I see is that I can observe from my own file that apparent male readers are favoriting the rough and tumble ones over the emotionally based ones and apparent female readers are doing the opposite.

 

[sr71plt]

Another "neither here nor there" Lit.-based statistic on (apparent/claimed) male vs. female authors of GM here:

Among GM Hall of Fame story authors, apparent female (7) authors outstrip apparent male (3) authors, with 2 who don't designate (although I'm pretty sure one of those is female).

I have a theory on this breakdown. I think male GM readers are, in general, hit-and-run readers and female GM readers are fan readers (again taken from observations on commenting/favoriting of my own GM stories). And fan readers is where the vote buildup is.

HOWEVER, on the current 30-day most popular GM author list, 5 are claimed male, 4 claimed female, and 1 claimed transsexual.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Hmmm. Where is that evidenced?

Just anecdotal --conversations with men. There have been some threads on the GLBT forum, too.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, there too, my observation is that GM men readers don't really talk that much about what they are reading (in contrast to women readers and "sensitive" male readers). I think you're missing out on a whole bunch of male readers of male-written "rough" trade storywriting simply because they come just to read it and get off on it, not to discuss it or react to it by voting or commenting. (When I hear from apparently male readers, it tends to be more in direct e-mails, not in comments on the story in the file--and sometimes it appears they haven't voted the story at all; they direct e-mail.)

So, I think the logic of your observation of who is talking about it is skewed on who actually reads what and prefers what type of author from the get go.

On strictly GM story sites (like Gaydemon), where's very little voting or comments on the stories at all. That doesn't mean they aren't being read.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Then let me restate:

Many men seem to enjoy woman-written M/M.

 

[sr71plt]

Then let me restate:

Many men seem to enjoy woman-written M/M.

Well, OK. We'll put that on the "Umm, maybe" shelf along with:

Many men seem to enjoy men-written M/M.

 

[PennLady]

Well, OK. We'll put that on the "Umm, maybe" shelf along with:

Many men seem to enjoy men-written M/M.

I don't think anyone was saying otherwise.