How far yould you go to "win"

[Saint_Sinner]

This is mostly for the Dommes, (I have a great lack of understanding in what and why a Domme is, and am trying to learn)

How far would you go in order to crush, break, disprove the commonly accepted male female gender roles? This world is a man's world, and I don't see it changing soon. Have you had any experience with a man that couldn't be controlled with sexual discipline (orgasm denial, feminising)? Would the physical punishment that it would eventually take to make an unsubmissive man submit eventually be too much? I am talking about actually taking a man's manhood unwillingly. Making him submit. I don't understand this, because I have no desire to submit......I can understand submissiveness in women but the reasons to me are still ethreal.

I'll try to make it simple in my POV.

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived. No law that I can think of is not supported by the threat of violence.

Men are genitically predisposed, and biologically more proficient at violence. Our creed.....When all else fails, start swinging.

As Dommes, is there a underlying need to break a man? To beat him, to make him admit his "lessness"? My own opinion as a Dom, is not wanting to break a sub, but to build her.

I really don't mean to disrespect, just to learn.

I can't get the thought out of my head......." Alright, it's funny now, isn't it? (But bitch, when you untie me the fun will really start.....) I don't know what a Domme could do to get me to change my mind about that. I have a high pain threshold, and would not be above saying "I submit" just to be free of my restraints. But once I got loose, she had better not be in arms reach.

I hope you all understand that I am not trying to bash, or be bashed.........just looking for understanding.

Anyone out there grok?

 

[SexyChele]

First, I am far from being a Domme. However, just as male Dominant have very little, if any, interest in forcing a female submissive to engage in acitivities that do not appeal to her, why would a Domme want to try to force a man to do something against his will? Yes, I am familiar with the idea that Dominants, both male and female, will often have their subs do things that make them uncomfortable. But overall, the relationship is consentual.

I've met men who wanted me to tie them up and use them - only to "get even" when they are finally let loose. To me, that is not what being a male submissive is truly about. It is about truly serving their mistress - just as a female submissive considers it a pleasure to serve her male Dominant.

 

[Mistress Tae]

Just my simple point of view here....

..I have no want, need, or desire to "break" my guy. His submission will come willingly or it won't come at all for us, and that's something I can live with. When we chose to go down this road it wasn't with the intention of making me (as the Mistress) more superior to him, or him (as my slave) less than what he is.

He is a strong man, with a very strong personality, I would never wish for that to change. That is the man I fell in love with and if he were to go away that would break me. We are in this to explore that side of our personalities/sexual nature that we are just at a time in our lives where we are ready to.

My personal philosophy ( and this applies to me alone ) is that if I cannot dominate him through my words and my actions without having to resort to physical "violence" (and I mean by that a true "beating" not just S&M play), then I shouldn't be his Mistress. If I am not dominant enough by myself then this is probably not for me.....

 

[Saint_Sinner]

I truly understand these things, and am really not trying to imply that anything different than that is the norm, but I do see IMHO that there tends to be more of a "man hating" motivation to a Domme than there is a "woman hating" motivation to a Dom.

 

[Mistress Tae]

There is a possiblility that that exists with some female dominants, but not all of us. I personally love men, and truly love my own man. I want for each of us to better people for having this experience rather than lowering him to make me "better", for IMHO that never works out as you would like it to.

 

[NCShin]

I truly understand these things, and am really not trying to imply that anything different than that is the norm, but I do see IMHO that there tends to be more of a "man hating" motivation to a Domme than there is a "woman hating" motivation to a Dom.

I agree with this.

I have the same perception of many female dominants.

 

[lark sparrow]

Consider that a good Domme will likely have 15 to 20 times the submissives you (a male Dominant) have vying for your attention at any given point in time.

Consider that a good Domme can easily charge money for Domination should she choose to, which would be unlikely in a male Dominant's case.

How many men do you really think a Domme has need to force, crush, break or disprove?

And why would you think a Domme would have any interest in doing any of the above to a male Dominant?

Even if your only exposure to Dominant women in BDSM is here on Lit, take a good look at the intelligence, class and leadership evident... but it seems you're going to have to use your eyes as there doesn't seem a lot of enthusiasm to justify themselves.

Your own argument seems a rather large contridiction.

Men are genitically predisposed, and biologically more proficient at violence. Our creed.....When all else fails, start swinging.

As Dommes, is there a underlying need to break a man? To beat him, to make him admit his "lessness"? My own opinion as a Dom, is not wanting to break a sub, but to build her.

Men's creed is violence. A female Dominant must want to break a man. You want to build a sub, not break her. Am I missing the logic?

I also have yet to see a Domme question male Dominants place or motives, but it seems rather popular in some instances for Doms to do the reverse regarding women's Dominace or submission. Keeping this in mind, I would suggest that fear and misunderstanding of women or "woman-hating" is more predominant.

P.S. I am neither a Domme, nor a heterosexual - this may make me merely a terrible figment of imagination, in your world.

 

[sunfox]

Lark.. I'm having deja vu! I remember this discussion. Isn't this the one about how all women are naturally submissive?

Wait.. no. That was a different absurdly sexist chest beating He-man Womun Haters Club thread.

My mistake.

Carry on, boys. I'm sure all Dommes are really man hating lesbians.

Do forgive the sarcasm, Shadowsdream... I'm sure you know I don't really think that.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Lark.. I'm having deja vu! I remember this discussion. Isn't this the one about how all women are naturally submissive?

Wait.. no. That was a different absurdly sexist chest beating He-man Womun Haters Club thread.

My mistake.

Carry on, boys. I'm sure all Dommes are really man hating lesbians.

Do forgive the sarcasm, Shadowsdream... I'm sure you know I don't really think that.

Hello sunfox...noted ~~smile~~~

 

[lark sparrow]

lol I must have missed a meeting! Suddenly BDSM is about traditional vanilla values and institutionalized sexism? Everything old is new again - welcome to "alternative" sexuality!

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Could it be that Saint-Sinner is sincerely confused, rather than trying to prove an offensive point?

S-S, it sounds like you are confusing those who like consensual bdsm with those who have a 'non-consent' bent. I used to read a non-consent board regularly, and there was one poor guy who was always trying to find women into raping men to play with him. He never did find anyone. All he could find were one or two who were willing to try 'switching' for a time or two before they went back to what they preferred.

It's interesting to me that non-consent seems to have so little appeal to most women. Especially when you consider how much women have to be mad at men in general about. (Latest statistic I heard is that close to half of all women have been abused at some point, virtually all by men.)

And for what it's worth, I think this is all about control, rather than violence. Violence is only a tool. Men are generally bigger and stronger, but then elephants and tigers are bigger and stronger than humans, yet look who took over the planet. It's our brains, not our brawn, that gives us that control. Women have no lack in that regard.

 

[sunfox]

It's interesting to me that non-consent seems to have so little appeal to most women. Especially when you consider how much women have to be mad at men in general about. (Latest statistic I heard is that close to half of all women have been abused at some point, virtually all by men.)

I think it is relatively safe to say that most women lack desire for non-consent play in the style Saint_Sinner is talking about exactly -because- women are abused so frequently. Having been badly treated several times myself, I would agree that I have zero interest in roughing up someone else, simply because I know how horrible it made me feel.

That said, non-consent that is -play- is fine by me, and in fact, very exciting... but that is in the nature of knowing that he will stop if it becomes too much for me. I have no desire to feel threatened, frightened, and unsafe, and I doubt any man does either, when it comes down to it.

 

[sunfox]

As a side note, I find it somewhat sad that the point of this thread is to make it seem that Dommes only want to seek out 'unsubmissive' males and force them to submit, as if as women, they should feel a need to validate themselves.

Most of the Dommes I've seen post here are clearly intelligent, experienced, strong people. (Not just women.. people. I don't feel there's a need to gender-classify on that. Anyone can be strong, anyone can be weak, regardless of what's under their clothes.) I don't think they feel a need to validate themselves by 'forcing' anyone to submit. Honestly, if I were into women, I'd so be beating down Shadowsdream's door.

I think the entire question is somewhat skewed by an unrealistic and prejudicial view of what makes up a Domme, and what she is looking for in a relationship.

But that's just me.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

I think the entire question is somewhat skewed by an unrealistic and prejudicial view of what makes up a Domme, and what she is looking for in a relationship.

But that's just me.

I agree with everything you've said in these last two posts.

Just got the impression that he may be actually trying to Change his view, rather than necessarily trying to perpetuate it. Possible?

 

[Netzach]

I see about five or six Doms motivated by fear and misogyny, for every man-hating lesbian Domme I've seen, but to say anything is highly politically suspect, trust me. Maybe we should be paying close attention to the motivation for ANY human who wants to beat, subjugate and OWN another. And maybe we need to look inward and own up to our "stuff" and clean house before we make any conclusions about others.

I have no qualms about admitting to a distrust and dislike of many men, based on continued negative interaction with men as a whole. I have no doubt that when I have a man willing to seek out humiliation and degredation in play I'm an even happier and hornier little piggie than him! I have no problem admitting that these are interconnected, and that having a powerful male under my feet feeds my personal sense of JUSTICE.
And righteous revenge makes me wet. It makes me wet in a movie when the bad guy gets his. I practically came in my pants at the end of Snatch.

The nuances I think you are missing:

I have no interest in forcing anyone to do anything, for real. I mean, I've fantasized about it, sure, but I have no interest in breaking a man down or making him be something he's just fundamentally NOT. Why would I bother when I have, as lark sparrow suggested, a whole handful of men at any given time who'd PAY for the chance to be under my feet, let alone get really grateful for it? I may have righteous indignation, but I don't have so much anger that I only want the ones I have to club over the head and cloroform.

I think we both probably have this in common, you probably prefer a woman who likes you, sees the special little flame of YOUR authority and wants to honor it! Rather than trying to force a non-submissive who would spit in your eye and kick you in the balls when you untied her, hard enough to put them out of commissison. Who the fuck needs that headache? The presupposition that ALL WOMEN WANT TO SUBMIT , ALL MEN DON"T is really limiting your ability to understand this.

Why would my having a vagina really create such a fundamental difference in outlook? Come on, dude.

Look, I'm not submissive, but it's really not so hard for me to see why someone would want to submit. Male or female. A freeing lack of having to decide everything and take care of everything. A deeper bond with the human whose dominance you want to feed. A chance to be yourself, and play out your desires, and be valued for what you are. Acceptance. Orgasms. Honor. Service. Wicked face-slaps. Sweet little scratches about the ears. Zen-like stoic personal development. Nasty slutty sexual excess...it goes on and on and on.

You expressed that these things aren't for you. Fine. That doesn't make you any finer better or more capable than a person who craves them.

I'm not saying you're doing this, but when a person acts like these things are icky and bad, so bad that they are totally BENEATH them, under any circumstance, ever, I question whether they honor those ideas, whether they value the humanity and dignity of their submissive. I see tremendous dignity in my subs, whatever undignified positions I might like them in at times. The willingness to go there, the altruism in doing something you're not so sure of just for my stupid little sake, is touching and admirable!

I also want to build my subs. (Men and women AND trans, which really gives the lie to any idea about who's inherently what...) Men are raised to be confident, take-charge, and less sensitive about the others around them. In general, the violence is certainly a socially sanctioned transmission. So when I allow a man to be sensitive, penetrable, UNselfish, humble around me, I'm building him. You may not see that, but I do. I do in the fulfilled relaxation and gratitude I get from my subs. I see it in their happiness and their increased generosity and mellowness toward other humans around them. When I can develop a man, he changes, for the better. He'd be the first to say it.

When I have a woman, I build her too. I work tirelessly on body image, assertion, and self-acceptance, things women are taught to go without from day one. I bet you have, too. I bet you have hit the same hurdles of fear, passive aggression, PMS, and insecurity.

ALL of the people I go into this with, are submissive and fulfilled by being dominated. They'd be as happy dominating me as you'd be being dominated BY me.

Bottom line, to be a Dominant, and to develop a person, be in an ongoing relationship is to deal with the most fundamental HUMAN issues we know. We're insecure, we want to be loved, we want to be liked, we want to find fulfilling work and relationships, we want to satifsy a neverending curiousity, we need to grow and change and have our self worth periodically reaffirmed by forces outside us. Dominants too.

There's a law as strong as violence, incidentally, which acknowledges no human law to quash it.

The Greeks encouraged love and sex among their soldiers, and came to take over half the world for longer than the US has been around.

Rationale: lovers are the quickest to die for one another.

There's a reason the most powerful biblical women were prophetic, usually. It speaks to the interiority of your experience...when you aren't fighting wars and DONT have to take over every enemy, you tend to see things over a longer haul, in the longer term. You begin to understand the incredible power that comes from bringing people around to your way of viewing things based on trust and wisdom, not hitting them over the head with things.


Edited to add:

I think the title of your post totally wraps in a nutshell why you don't get it.

If you think it's about "winning a contest" you're totally and sadly off the mark.

 

[SweetDommes]

Just my simple point of view here....

..I have no want, need, or desire to "break" my guy. His submission will come willingly or it won't come at all for us, and that's something I can live with. When we chose to go down this road it wasn't with the intention of making me (as the Mistress) more superior to him, or him (as my slave) less than what he is.

He is a strong man, with a very strong personality, I would never wish for that to change. That is the man I fell in love with and if he were to go away that would break me. We are in this to explore that side of our personalities/sexual nature that we are just at a time in our lives where we are ready to.

My personal philosophy ( and this applies to me alone ) is that if I cannot dominate him through my words and my actions without having to resort to physical "violence" (and I mean by that a true "beating" not just S&M play), then I shouldn't be his Mistress. If I am not dominant enough by myself then this is probably not for me.....

We agree w/ you Tae - we have no desire to "break" anyone. If it has to be forced, then it isn't worth it. I know that there are those out there who are man-haters, but I have recently had some experience with some major woman-haters ... it seems to me that the numbers are about equal (from my experience). We are definately not among the man-hater variety. We are both primarily straight (don't ask, it's too flippin complicated), and it would be kinda stupid to hate the gender that we are most attracted to...

Miss Karen
Miss Holly

 

[sunfox]

I agree with everything you've said in these last two posts.

Just got the impression that he may be actually trying to Change his view, rather than necessarily trying to perpetuate it. Possible?

Possible. But I also don't really see him as being very open to different views. As Netzach pointed out, the very title of the post makes it clear why he doesn't understand. If a woman is Dominating.. it must be to 'win'. Men do it because it is just and right for them to be Dominant. *grunting noise*

Maybe he'll surprise me. That'd be great. I love surprises! But I'm not holding my breath, either.

 

[Four_Inch_Heels]

I, also, have no desire to deal with someone who isn't willing to submit in the first place. It would be like you grabbing a random woman off of the street, and trying to control her. It would be possible, but not what D/s is all about.

Saint_Sinner wrote:
(I have a great lack of understanding in what and why a Domme is, and am trying to learn)

Dommes want the same thing Doms want! To mold someone to our vision of their best possible self, to stretch and explore their preconceived limits and boundaries, to "free" them to open
all sides of their personalities.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

... As Netzach pointed out, the very title of the post makes it clear why he doesn't understand. If a woman is Dominating.. it must be to 'win'. Men do it because it is just and right for them to be Dominant. *grunting noise*

LOL

Maybe he'll surprise me. That'd be great. I love surprises! But I'm not holding my breath, either. [/B]

:> I keep holding out hope....

And, granted, I don't know the players here, not having been on the board long, but I even had a different take on that title, though I must admit to having found it startling. May do a line-by-line Siskel to your collective Ebert, if he doesn't come back before I get to it.

In any case, the whole 'Man=Dom, Woman=Sub' attitude reminds me of something my husband said when he finally got it, after Much explaining, that I've got some subby tendencies. (It should tell you something about how Unobvious I am, that we've been married for 23 years.) Quote: "wow. That's forty-some years of feminist training out the window," which, btw, he didn't consider a Good thing. I should have countered with, 'if I were into watersports, it wouldn't mean that was forty-some years of toilet training out the window.'

 

[sunfox]

And, granted, I don't know the players here, not having been on the board long, but I even had a different take on that title, though I must admit to having found it startling. May do a line-by-line Siskel to your collective Ebert, if he doesn't come back before I get to it.

In any case, the whole 'Man=Dom, Woman=Sub' attitude reminds me of something my husband said when he finally got it, after Much explaining, that I've got some subby tendencies. (It should tell you something about how Unobvious I am, that we've been married for 23 years.) Quote: "wow. That's forty-some years of feminist training out the window," which, btw, he didn't consider a Good thing. I should have countered with, 'if I were into watersports, it wouldn't mean that was forty-some years of toilet training out the window.'

I'm all for a second opinion.. I tend to be a kneejerk reaction kinda girl, and I say what I'm thinking as soon as it comes to mind. Not always a good thing.

My partner in cri.. er, passion was rather surprised to discover I was of a submissive bent, as all he had known of me until our relationship was my public face, which is rather strongwilled. (Er, yes. I know some of you are snickering, cause I'm strongwilled here all the time, but shh.)

I think most men are more enlightened in their view of women than some of the posts you'll see. The one who lives with me certainly doesn't assume that a woman is ball-busting if she's dominant, anymore than he would want to crush my spirit in order to dominate me... not that he has to. Rowr.

And if someone said that watersports comment to me, I would have nearly died laughing. It would have required, in the very least, strong liquor to calm me.

 

[Saint_Sinner]

Could it be that Saint-Sinner is sincerely confused, rather than trying to prove an offensive point?

S-S, it sounds like you are confusing those who like consensual bdsm with those who have a 'non-consent' bent. I used to read a non-consent board regularly, and there was one poor guy who was always trying to find women into raping men to play with him. He never did find anyone. All he could find were one or two who were willing to try 'switching' for a time or two before they went back to what they preferred.

It's interesting to me that non-consent seems to have so little appeal to most women. Especially when you consider how much women have to be mad at men in general about. (Latest statistic I heard is that close to half of all women have been abused at some point, virtually all by men.)

And for what it's worth, I think this is all about control, rather than violence. Violence is only a tool. Men are generally bigger and stronger, but then elephants and tigers are bigger and stronger than humans, yet look who took over the planet. It's our brains, not our brawn, that gives us that control. Women have no lack in that regard.

I thought I phrased my questions as politely as possible, and did not intend to attack anything. I voiced a few questions about what I don't understand.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Your post was beautiful, in a adition to be an excellent answer. I would think that anyone would be honored to sub beneath you. Even though I love being submissive, sometimes Dom's freak me out around here when they air there thought processes. Yours left me thinking -if only for a moment- "where do I sign up?"

I see about five or six Doms motivated by fear and misogyny, for every man-hating lesbian Domme I've seen, but to say anything is highly politically suspect, trust me. Maybe we should be paying close attention to the motivation for ANY human who wants to beat, subjugate and OWN another. And maybe we need to look inward and own up to our "stuff" and clean house before we make any conclusions about others.

I have no qualms about admitting to a distrust and dislike of many men, based on continued negative interaction with men as a whole. I have no doubt that when I have a man willing to seek out humiliation and degredation in play I'm an even happier and hornier little piggie than him! I have no problem admitting that these are interconnected, and that having a powerful male under my feet feeds my personal sense of JUSTICE.
And righteous revenge makes me wet. It makes me wet in a movie when the bad guy gets his. I practically came in my pants at the end of Snatch.

The nuances I think you are missing:

I have no interest in forcing anyone to do anything, for real. I mean, I've fantasized about it, sure, but I have no interest in breaking a man down or making him be something he's just fundamentally NOT. Why would I bother when I have, as lark sparrow suggested, a whole handful of men at any given time who'd PAY for the chance to be under my feet, let alone get really grateful for it? I may have righteous indignation, but I don't have so much anger that I only want the ones I have to club over the head and cloroform.

I think we both probably have this in common, you probably prefer a woman who likes you, sees the special little flame of YOUR authority and wants to honor it! Rather than trying to force a non-submissive who would spit in your eye and kick you in the balls when you untied her, hard enough to put them out of commissison. Who the fuck needs that headache? The presupposition that ALL WOMEN WANT TO SUBMIT , ALL MEN DON"T is really limiting your ability to understand this.

Why would my having a vagina really create such a fundamental difference in outlook? Come on, dude.

Look, I'm not submissive, but it's really not so hard for me to see why someone would want to submit. Male or female. A freeing lack of having to decide everything and take care of everything. A deeper bond with the human whose dominance you want to feed. A chance to be yourself, and play out your desires, and be valued for what you are. Acceptance. Orgasms. Honor. Service. Wicked face-slaps. Sweet little scratches about the ears. Zen-like stoic personal development. Nasty slutty sexual excess...it goes on and on and on.

You expressed that these things aren't for you. Fine. That doesn't make you any finer better or more capable than a person who craves them.

I'm not saying you're doing this, but when a person acts like these things are icky and bad, so bad that they are totally BENEATH them, under any circumstance, ever, I question whether they honor those ideas, whether they value the humanity and dignity of their submissive. I see tremendous dignity in my subs, whatever undignified positions I might like them in at times. The willingness to go there, the altruism in doing something you're not so sure of just for my stupid little sake, is touching and admirable!

I also want to build my subs. (Men and women AND trans, which really gives the lie to any idea about who's inherently what...) Men are raised to be confident, take-charge, and less sensitive about the others around them. In general, the violence is certainly a socially sanctioned transmission. So when I allow a man to be sensitive, penetrable, UNselfish, humble around me, I'm building him. You may not see that, but I do. I do in the fulfilled relaxation and gratitude I get from my subs. I see it in their happiness and their increased generosity and mellowness toward other humans around them. When I can develop a man, he changes, for the better. He'd be the first to say it.

When I have a woman, I build her too. I work tirelessly on body image, assertion, and self-acceptance, things women are taught to go without from day one. I bet you have, too. I bet you have hit the same hurdles of fear, passive aggression, PMS, and insecurity.

ALL of the people I go into this with, are submissive and fulfilled by being dominated. They'd be as happy dominating me as you'd be being dominated BY me.

Bottom line, to be a Dominant, and to develop a person, be in an ongoing relationship is to deal with the most fundamental HUMAN issues we know. We're insecure, we want to be loved, we want to be liked, we want to find fulfilling work and relationships, we want to satifsy a neverending curiousity, we need to grow and change and have our self worth periodically reaffirmed by forces outside us. Dominants too.

There's a law as strong as violence, incidentally, which acknowledges no human law to quash it.

The Greeks encouraged love and sex among their soldiers, and came to take over half the world for longer than the US has been around.

Rationale: lovers are the quickest to die for one another.

There's a reason the most powerful biblical women were prophetic, usually. It speaks to the interiority of your experience...when you aren't fighting wars and DONT have to take over every enemy, you tend to see things over a longer haul, in the longer term. You begin to understand the incredible power that comes from bringing people around to your way of viewing things based on trust and wisdom, not hitting them over the head with things.


Edited to add:

I think the title of your post totally wraps in a nutshell why you don't get it.

If you think it's about "winning a contest" you're totally and sadly off the mark.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I think a big part of the problem, SS is that you've maybe only been exposed to a certain type of *fantasy* femdomme, as apposed to what actual domme is.

Secondly, I think you have an inacurate view of just what it means to be submissive, as well as some obviously formal ideas about gender rolls. (Confusious say If understanding is what you truly seek, you will have to begin to question many of the things you 'know'. [In regards to gender rolls, and in regards to BDSM]

I see on this board, a lot more thoughtfulness on what it means to be dominant from the females. Many of the male dommes seem to be less about building subs, or even caring for subs or responsibility, and more about power for themselves, control, and to be frank selfishness. There are a few doms that talk about loftier things like what I've mentioned above, but I've heard it much more from the dommes. Many doms even, I would venture, come across less as a "Master" and more as a Sadist, using the dominant roll to acheive there means. There's really nothing wrong with any of that, as long as a person knows what they are getting into. If I wanted BDSM as a way to grow as a person, I would more likely seek out a domme than a dom.

I thought I phrased my questions as politely as possible, and did not intend to attack anything. I voiced a few questions about what I don't understand.

 

[Saint_Sinner]

I truly regret that this line of questioning has pigeon-holed me into the chest thumping he man woman haters club. That was far from my intent. I have never met a Domme face to face (well, that I know of because I really am not under the impression of a leather catsuit clad uber-lesbian as the sum total of all Dommes).
I was asking an honest question. Looking back at how I phrased my question, I can realize how it left room for intrepretation.
I am trying to learn about the motivations, I have a hard time understanding submissiveness in general (male submissiveness especially) , because honestly I am not wired that way. But I am not passing judgement, I don't have the right.
I was asking about the essence of Dommeness, does it make you feel like a crusader? Radical feminist? What? I DON'T KNOW. I was looking for responses. And thank you to those who offered responses. Some helped, some attacked, supporting the context of my original question.
Just as not all Dommes fit into a nice neat category of who they are or what they want, not all men fit the category of woman-beating neanderthal.
I have never abused a woman, and don't think that I ever could. While I have my opinions about gender roles, I am honestly trying to learn about something I don't understand. I do my best not to generalize, but I did in my original question. I understand that there might be more of a social stigma to overcome in the situation of a Domme, but that is not of my doing. Some of you are probably sick and tired of being attacked in some way, shape, or form. But I am not here to do that.

I knew this thread was going to ruffle a few feathers, but my intent was not to offend. But as always, take it how you like.

 

[sunfox]

I am trying to learn about the motivations, I have a hard time understanding submissiveness in general (male submissiveness especially) , because honestly I am not wired that way. But I am not passing judgement, I don't have the right.

Honestly, I would be somewhat leery of trusting my well-being to a Dominant that has no understanding, however basic, of my submission and what it means.

I was asking about the essence of Dommeness, does it make you feel like a crusader? Radical feminist? What? I DON'T KNOW. I was looking for responses. And thank you to those who offered responses. Some helped, some attacked, supporting the context of my original question.

The essence of Dommeness, as far as I can see, is the same as Domness. To be the guiding force in the relationship. The Dominant to their submissive. To hone and enhance the nature of a BDSM pairing by their difference from a submissive's outlook.

I think if you see a disagreement as an 'attack'... you're being rather thin-skinned, and likely only looking for an excuse to say 'see? All you women are man-haters.' Which kinda stinks to me of someone digging for validation, not truth.

Just as not all Dommes fit into a nice neat category of who they are or what they want, not all men fit the category of woman-beating neanderthal.

I don't believe in any way that -anyone- fits into a category exclusively. I don't believe Dommes must desire solely to justify their 'superiority' by 'forcing' men to submit. I imagine that's a small portion of Dommes, or there wouldn't be such a high demand for them.

Most of the men I know have no trouble behaving respectfully towards women. Of course, most of them also know that women aren't naturally inclined to be submissive as some people seem to believe *cough* and can accept and appreciate the submission they recieve without wondering where it comes from, or assuming that a less submissive woman is the product of any sort of virulent hatred of men.

I have never abused a woman, and don't think that I ever could. While I have my opinions about gender roles, I am honestly trying to learn about something I don't understand. I do my best not to generalize, but I did in my original question. I understand that there might be more of a social stigma to overcome in the situation of a Domme, but that is not of my doing. Some of you are probably sick and tired of being attacked in some way, shape, or form. But I am not here to do that.

I knew this thread was going to ruffle a few feathers, but my intent was not to offend. But as always, take it how you like.

I don't imagine there's a lot of social stigma involved in being a strong woman in most countries. I've never had someone tell me I'm too opinionated, too outspoken, too competent to be feminine.

I have to say, if you didn't mean to generalize, starting out the thread on a "Dominant women must hate men and want to subjugate them all in a holy war to end in an Amazonian society" note probably wasn't the way to go. But that's just my opinion. *fluffs her feathers and struts away*