How Evil Can BDSM Get

[Angelofsex]

Everything has a dark side. I was wondering how evil can BDSM be.
There is light bondage, heavy bondage, kinky but is there a darkside. Or is S/M the dark side? There might be more then some of us know.

 

[MissTaken]

I don't think that hte physical acts that occur between two people can be described as "evil" or "dark" , as long as it is consensual.

It is love making or simply fun, when two people get together and explore the different sensations of their bodies combined with power exchange.

Sex becomes "evil" or "dark" when it is non consensual. Then, it is called rape.

 

[Siren]

 

[Angelofsex]

I don't think that hte physical acts that occur between two people can be described as "evil" or "dark" , as long as it is consensual.

It is love making or simply fun, when two people get together and explore the different sensations of their bodies combined with power exchange.

Sex becomes "evil" or "dark" when it is non consensual. Then, it is called rape.

Thank you MissT, this is want I wanted to know. People are sometimes afraid of BDSM. Thinking it is very bad for you, the dark part of sex.

 

[Angelofsex]

I agree with MissTaken.

Evil can only enter into a scene or relationship if one side desires to take away or ignore; consent, safe zones, and safety words.

evil can only enter in if hard limits are cast aside and not respected.

Mutual pushing and extending of boundaries can never be evil.......no matter what it entails, when two parties consent.

Thank you too Siren, another wise woman like Miss T.

 

[Siren]

 

[MissTaken]

Thank you MissT, this is want I wanted to know. People are sometimes afraid of BDSM. Thinking it is very bad for you, the dark part of sex.

That is the problem.

The media and society's idea of what is normal and right considers some things taboo, ugly or evil.

Heck, there was a time and there are still places where gay people cannot admit to being gay as it is seen as unnatural.

BDSM brings to mind pictures of mean, angry men dressed in leather beating the shit out of helpless women. That is not what it should be, ever.

That is not what it is for anyone who consents or is informed enough to stay out of this sort of situation.

A minister's wife might like to be spanked behind closed doors.
A sub is judged because she says, "I like to be spanked."

 

[MissTaken]

Pssssst. I know about all this, than I let on.......

Why am I not surprised?

*smirks*

 

[Angelofsex]

Pssssst. I know more about all this, than I let on.......

I think you really do. *wink*

 

[A Desert Rose]

There is nothing evil or dark about any of this. I can not belive it is even being discussed.

Common sense alone dictates that if it is *consentual* then it is not evil or dark.

You might be wise to read and understand what safe, sane and consentual means.

 

[Angelofsex]

That is the problem.

The media and society's idea of what is normal and right considers some things taboo, ugly or evil.

Heck, there was a time and there are still places where gay people cannot admit to being gay as it is seen as unnatural.

BDSM brings to mind pictures of mean, angry men dressed in leather beating the shit out of helpless women. That is not what it should be, ever.

That is not what it is for anyone who consents or is informed enough to stay out of this sort of situation.

A minister's wife might like to be spanked behind closed doors.
A sub is judged because she says, "I like to be spanked."

The media and society always messes everything up. Media tells you more then you should know in a wrong way and society tells you, you can't do this, you can't do that. I do agreed with you.

 

[Angelofsex]

There is nothing evil or dark about any of this. I can not belive it is even being discussed.

Common sense alone dictates that if it is *consentual* then it is not evil or dark.

You might be wise to read and understand what safe, sane and consentual means.

This is how you feel, which you have every right. But there are people out there that have an all together different idea of BDSM. That have a total wrong idea about it.

 

[A Desert Rose]

It's called ignorance. Read. Read. Read.

 

[Angelofsex]

It's called ignorance. Read. Read. Read.

I sign out but came back in again. It could be ignorance, and people do have to read about it. But they could also go to the wrong place to do it. You know about it, I am leaning about it, there are people out there so against it, feeding the wrong things to the other ones. So to them it is evil--taboo, just like MissT posted the gays are still are today.

 

[lark sparrow]

Agrees with what has been said, however, some scenes and fantasies do touch on many taboos and this can be a big part of the eroticism. Playing with "darker" ideas, with someone you trust and are ultimately safe with occurs in some play, yes? Power/powerlessness, pain, humiliation... take your pick. Most with generally negative connotations outside the realm of SSC BDSM, and within it, hold pleasure, growth, intimacy, even pure and simple naughtiness.

I'm not sure what context AoS had in mind, just another possible take... and of course glad to see the red flags raised in discussions about evil or darkness and BDSM, as there are undeniably many misconceptions.

 

[MissTaken]

There is nothing evil or dark about any of this. I can not belive it is even being discussed.

Common sense alone dictates that if it is *consentual* then it is not evil or dark.

You might be wise to read and understand what safe, sane and consentual means.

Many newbies or non BDSMers don't have the same level of "common sense" you are referring to.

I think this is a good thread topic as it indicates the greatest and most dangerous fallacy we have to face.

Why not discuss it head on? Perhaps a few could be educated as we go.

Example? I was gong to join a munch group in Syracuse , but have it on good authority they are repeatedly broken up by the local PD for practicing the things they do.

Sounds silly...but it is misinformation at it's best.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Evil?

I think that BDSM is never evil within itself.

Abuse is abuse. Like love, and religion it can be used as a excuse for bad behaviour.

People can call it what they want, but it does not make it so.

Ebony

 

[Pure]

Angel of sex,

Of course there can be and is a 'dark side' to bdsm. I'm surprised--well not really-- that only larksparrow hints at it.

A favorite savvy and savage poster in my eyes is Eb, yet I do not agree with her statement.

[Ebony fire said:
I think that BDSM is never evil within itself.

Abuse is abuse. Like love, and religion it can be used as a excuse for bad behaviour.

People can call it what they want, but it does not make it so.[end]

This kind of approach results in a merely verbal 'resolution' to the problem. It's reminiscent of arguments like:
"Is religion ever bad?" "Well consider the witch burnings the church approved" "But that's not real religion."

"Is capitalism ever bad." "Well, kids used to perish in mineshafts, working 12 hours a day." "But that's not true capitalism."

All things sexual have a possible dark side, for one thing, because of problems of obsession. Ever see the old Dietrich movie, "The Blue Angel" [Der Blaue Engel, 1930]? or the more recent "Fatal Attraction"?

Read "9 1/2 weeks" which ends in a mental/physical breakdown.
(Not sure if this came through clearly in the movie.)

To merely say, "Well, it wasn't sane, then--hence it was not 'real' bdsm" simply avoids the issue. I'd maintain the story is clearly consensual.

OK Eb, I'll ready myself to the strap-on.

 

[artful]

Everything has a dark side. I was wondering how evil can BDSM be.
There is light bondage, heavy bondage, kinky but is there a darkside. Or is S/M the dark side? There might be more then some of us know.

How EVIL can BDSM get?

A great question Angel. First,...lets define EVIL! Once again, me an Webster's agree somewhat. In my opinion, evil is,...morally reprehensible. Now the question is,..."Reprehensible to whose morals?"

I think the general public, tends to go along with the "moral majority". The BDSM community, (as a whole), has established Safe, Sane, and Consensual, as the foundation and basis, for their participation in their individual, and collective expressions of sexuality and lifestyle.

In our community, we tend to have our own morals to guide us. Within this group, we each have our own individual morals. What some may find as entertaining and joyful participation, others may find as EVIL and DARK.

As one example:

Dream, (as with all of us), has offended many, but has done so in a burst of raw emotion, (NOT,...as a planned or calculated course). Her pain was splashed across Literotica, and not just at this Forum. Was she justified in doing so? In my opinion,...NO!

After she had made apologies that most never accepted, I forbade her to post in the BDSM Forum, for a time, (in order to let the flames die down).

Her emotional posting continued in other forums, and people from the BDSM Forum, copied and pasted her remarks, and brought her statements BACK to THIS Forum in other ways, to serve their own purpose,...to further their own agendas.

Out of MISPLACED sympathy for the plight she had only herself to blame,...her friends came to this Forum to defend her. In some cases, they made valid references to the problems that had developed, in some cases,...they were just plain rude.

How each of us deal with these issues, is a moral responsibility. How we deal with it, can be EVIL or GOOD. I ask each of you to look, not only at Dream's mistakes, but also within yourselves.

What moral justification do you have for prolonging a painful event. What justification do you have, as an individual, to continue raking her over the "coals"?

What justification do any of you have, in responding to a *troll*, (whether or not they are trolling with a valid ID)?

How many new FUNNY threads will you start, to covertly make fun of someone who has left the BDSM Forum? Two wrongs do not make a right, they never have, and they never will.

How many new FUNNY posts, will you make covertly as well as overtly, to ridicule one, who no longer posts in this Forum? How many new HATEFUL private messages, will each individual continue to send to Dream?

Is this the way to popularity? To jump on a wounded prey, to play with a mouse as a cat might? Dream has no defense, she was wrong in what she did, she attempted apology and, right or wrong, each of you had occasion to accept it, or reject it.

ALL of you who have participated in your own BRAND of FUN, (or vengeance), do so at the risk of your own respectability. You who have participated in raising yourselves to greater heights, by lowering or demeaning Dream, have erred mightily.

The bandwagon once again has been filled with piranhas, knashing their teeth over prey, which no longer posts in this Forum. Much the same as some did, after cymbidia and others left this Forum.

EVIL? Yes there is EVIL amongst us. EVIL? Yes there is EVIL within us. It is in ME also,...but I do my BEST to control it,...I try to not let it guide me in what I say and do. Thanks for the thread Angel.

(JMHO),...but it's mine,...and I own it.

 

[NemoAlia]

I'm with Pure. A smart cooky, that one.

All that I can add: Could BDSM not also be evil in an, um, evangelical sort of way? I've never seen this in real life, since my experience is limited to ... my experiences; but isn't it possible that a BDSM couple can, while keeping their BDSM to themselves, try to inflict evil on people outside their relationship?

Speculation and gray-areaness, but still, it's what I was thinking at the time.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Angel of sex,

Of course there can be and is a 'dark side' to bdsm. I'm surprised--well not really-- that only larksparrow hints at it.

A favorite savvy and savage poster in my eyes is Eb, yet I do not agree with her statement.

[Ebony fire said:
I think that BDSM is never evil within itself.

Abuse is abuse. Like love, and religion it can be used as a excuse for bad behaviour.

People can call it what they want, but it does not make it so.[end]

This kind of approach results in a merely verbal 'resolution' to the problem. It's reminiscent of arguments like:
"Is religion ever bad?" "Well consider the witch burnings the church approved" "But that's not real religion."

"Is capitalism ever bad." "Well, kids used to perish in mineshafts, working 12 hours a day." "But that's not true capitalism."

All things sexual have a possible dark side, for one thing, because of problems of obsession. Ever see the old Dietrich movie, "The Blue Angel" [Der Blaue Engel, 1930]? or the more recent "Fatal Attraction"?

Read "9 1/2 weeks" which ends in a mental/physical breakdown.
(Not sure if this came through clearly in the movie.)

To merely say, "Well, it wasn't sane, then--hence it was not 'real' bdsm" simply avoids the issue. I'd maintain the story is clearly consensual.

OK Eb, I'll ready myself to the strap-on.

Ah, but that is what opinions are for. It does not matter whether anyone agrees with Me or not. I do not care one way or another. I NEVER debate my own opinions with anyone. Disagree all you please.

If you are implying I am avoiding the issue cause I do not answer to your satisfaction, then too damn bad. Pick on someone else I ain't biting.

Eb

 

[Angelofsex]

Thank you for your comments everyone. Artful, I do thank you very much, people are evil playing on someone's problem. BDSM is not evil in our eyes, but the people who likes to harp on someone they make it evil.

There is alot to learn about BDSM for me, but the ones that don't know anything on it does not understand it.

Sure Dream speaks her feelings out loud, maybe it is her way of dealing with it. Does not give the people right to still go on about her, she isn't even posting here now, due to your wishes.
Is is a BDSM item to talk about. Evil comes in many ways, even in BDSM.

JMHO

What I speak has nothing to do just with anyone person.....I would have said it about anyone....

 

[Richard49]

I guess to answer your question
I would need to know your definition of evil

 

[Sandia]

Talk to your friends, Artful. Ones who are not Dream's friends also - or at least not her friends first - and see what they say about what she's posted here - especially about her son.

 

[Angelofsex]

I guess to answer your question
I would need to know your definition of evil

That people are not understanding BDSM. Other ones giving them wrong infornation on it, making it look worst. That the media making it wrong and society is saying you can't. So really it is the people that make it evil.