How does one leave?

[eudaemonia]

In addition, I discovered that the romantic gestures and the "sweet things" I did were mocked and not appreciated.

[...]

I discovered shortly after we wed that she thought my romance and adorations to be quite amusing. She would laugh at the love letters and poems I used to send her. If that wasn't enough, she admitted that she would share them with her friends (before we were married and living in different cities) and they would all get quite the laugh. Since this discovery, I never wrote another poem nor love letter/note to her.

Quite simply, this is despicable behavior -- not only what she did but then later telling you about it. This woman does not have a righteous bone in her body.

Other than that burst of outrage on your behalf I have little else to offer by way of advice. You seem like a man with considerable capacity for self-reflection and rational judgment. Trust yourself, and that you'll do the right thing when it's time.

 

[Noor]

While I agree in general, there are some points here to consider that Bashfull has already raised. One, they have become both romantically AND sexually incompatible (e.g. she's withholding sex). Two, HOW she has expressed her lack of care for such things (i.e. laughing about it with her friends, deriding gentlemanly behaviors in front of their son, etc.) There are good and bad ways to say "that's not my thing."

(I am reminded of a very crass moment where I immediately turned to my sister to trade a tacky Xmas gift from Mom...while Mom was in earshot. Bad, Fennel. Bad!)

That they will not see eye-to-eye on this is clear. That Bashfull feels that he has been flexible in trying to meet her needs is also (his) fact.

I do not mean to rally to his defense here as I have just one side of the story, but I do believe that there is a point where one can say, "hey, why don't I find someone who appreciates the things I value most in a relationship."

She should have that too.

I doubt it is as cut and dry as all that. From what Bash has said they have always been romantically and sexually incompatible from his point of view.
She doesn't withhold sex very successfully as they already have one child and are now expecting another. If she really disliked him and his writing so much, why did she marry him? I suspect these things were said to hurt him, in response to something she felt hurt by, probably during their counselling

Bash opened this thread by asking how one leaves a pregnant wife, and still be thought of as a decent guy. Unfortunately for Bash, I doubt there is a way to do it. How many woman would want a man who left his wife when she was pregnant with their child?

 

[Fennel]

She doesn't withhold sex very successfully as they already have one child and are now expecting another.

Um, it doesn't take sex every day, every other day or even every few months to produce a child. Just one fertile night and some sperm.

If she really disliked him and his writing so much, why did she marry him?
I suspect these things were said to hurt him, in response to something she felt hurt by, probably during their counselling

At no point did Bashfull indicate that she disliked him, simply that she made fun of his romantic gestures in front of her friends. Let's say that you are right that she did not actually do it but just said she did to deliberately hurt his feelings, does that make it better?

And from your own footer: A person may cause evil to others not only by his actions but by his inaction, and in either case he is justly accountable to them for the injury.

Let us, at the very least, call this something to which she should be held accountable rather than excused.

Bash opened this thread by asking how one leaves a pregnant wife, and still be thought of as a decent guy. Unfortunately for Bash, I doubt there is a way to do it. How many woman would want a man who left his wife when she was pregnant with their child?

If this board is any indication, there are a number of women who are looking for a man who shows these kinds of romantic gestures. Sure, his decision may cast doubt among some women.

But he won't be looking for them.

 

[bashfull]

Um, it doesn't take sex every day, every other day or even every few months to produce a child. Just one fertile night and some sperm.



At no point did Bashfull indicate that she disliked him, simply that she made fun of his romantic gestures in front of her friends. Let's say that you are right that she did not actually do it but just said she did to deliberately hurt his feelings, does that make it better?

And from your own footer: A person may cause evil to others not only by his actions but by his inaction, and in either case he is justly accountable to them for the injury.

Let us, at the very least, call this something to which she should be held accountable rather than excused.



If this board is any indication, there are a number of women who are looking for a man who shows these kinds of romantic gestures. Sure, his decision may cast doubt among some women.

But he won't be looking for them.

Wow...I couldn't have replied better myself, darlin'. Wanna be my legal counsel?

 

[spiderider]

Ok, I admit I didn't get past the first page...

But in case someone hasn't mentioned it, children will base their behaviour and expectations of intimate relationships on how their parents example it.

So, if a lack of affection, partnership and intimacy is observed, this can have tremendous long-term negative implications for them.

As a former single mom, I can assure you that I would prefer to raise my kids as separated parent than to provide an innacurate example of an ideal relationship.

 

[Fennel]

Wow...I couldn't have replied better myself, darlin'. Wanna be my legal counsel?

Will I get paid in sexual favors?
Details please.

 

[bashfull]

Will I get paid in sexual favors?
Details please.

*perk*

 

[Noor]

Um, it doesn't take sex every day, every other day or even every few months to produce a child. Just one fertile night and some sperm.

At no point did Bashfull indicate that she disliked him, simply that she made fun of his romantic gestures in front of her friends. Let's say that you are right that she did not actually do it but just said she did to deliberately hurt his feelings, does that make it better?

And from your own footer: A person may cause evil to others not only by his actions but by his inaction, and in either case he is justly accountable to them for the injury.

Let us, at the very least, call this something to which she should be held accountable rather than excused.

If this board is any indication, there are a number of women who are looking for a man who shows these kinds of romantic gestures. Sure, his decision may cast doubt among some women.

But he won't be looking for them.

Romantic gestures outweighs knocking up one's wife after already having secretly decided to leave her and then abandoning her while she is pregnant? Oh, yes I imagine there are tons of women all over that. Though there are a surprising number of women who marry men who cheated on their former wives with them and somehow think it won't happen to them.

I only have Bash's words to go on here. He and his wife's accountablity to each other is theirs to fight over. People say things when they are hurt, we have no idea in what context she said it or even if she meant it as Bash took it. Once again it is perception.

What I might post as a footer has no bearing at all on how Bash should leave his pregnant wife and somehow be well thought of for it. He would not have started this thread if he really thought that it was acceptable for gentlemen to leave their wives when they are pregnant with their child. It is certainly not one of those gentlemanly manners that one would wish to install in ones children.

I would be remiss as a friend of Bash's if I said nothing. Ten years from now, will he be able to look his child in the face? Will he wonder how much long term damage the added stress of being left put on the pregnancy and his child?

 

[Noor]

Wow...I couldn't have replied better myself, darlin'. Wanna be my legal counsel?

Well, if you want to lose your shirt that badly...

 

[bashfull]

Noor,

As I have stated previously, my wife and I have tried counseling...several, including church counseling. After years of trying, I have finally admitted defeat. Though perhaps defeat isn't the correct word. Maybe I should say that I realize that we are not compatible in almost any sense of the word. As someone in r/l said, I am high energy, high sex, adventerous, idealistic, etc. She is low energy, low libido. There has to be someone for BOTH of us out there who can better compliment us. I believe that she would be happier with someone else, too.

As for leaving a pregnant woman, I would believe it acceptable if there was very high tension and hostility in the house. Especially with a child already in the home. But, as I've discussed, there isn't hostility. It is as if we are good roommates.

 

[Noor]

Noor,

As I have stated previously, my wife and I have tried counseling...several, including church counseling. After years of trying, I have finally admitted defeat. Though perhaps defeat isn't the correct word. Maybe I should say that I realize that we are not compatible in almost any sense of the word. As someone in r/l said, I am high energy, high sex, adventerous, idealistic, etc. She is low energy, low libido. There has to be someone for BOTH of us out there who can better compliment us. I believe that she would be happier with someone else, too.

As for leaving a pregnant woman, I would believe it acceptable if there was very high tension and hostility in the house. Especially with a child already in the home. But, as I've discussed, there isn't hostility. It is as if we are good roommates.

I understand. Perhaps you can stay good roommates until the new child is born?

You are still married, she is still your wife and mother of your children, and I find it disturbing that you allow yourself and others on this thread to talk her down, even encouraging them.
All relationships have moments when the participants get hurt, I am sure your wife has her own about you that could be presented in an equally bad light from her point of view. None of us are angels, we all do things that hurt the people, usually unintentionally.
How different is this from her laughing with her friends? How many friends does she have, compared to the 1700 plus views this thread has received so far or the more than 740,000 members of lit?

I don't particularly care what other posters say about me on this thread, but I do care what it does to you, because in the end its you who must live with yourself.

By the way, awhile back I recognized a guy I knew here on lit by just seeing a chest shot, and another from a cock shot that showed his hands and hair pattern going up his belly, you are showing a lot more than that... I suspect someone who has seen you without a shirt or in a swimsuit might be able to recognize you.

 

[Fennel]

Romantic gestures outweighs knocking up one's wife after already having secretly decided to leave her and then abandoning her while she is pregnant? Oh, yes I imagine there are tons of women all over that.

Figured him out, huh? You're right: Bashfull is vicious evil and he should never ever hope for happiness again, the bastard!

Though there are a surprising number of women who marry men who cheated on their former wives with them and somehow think it won't happen to them.

Hm. So maybe we should send all the cheaters off to a separate island where they can all identify each other.

I am sure the people who remain will be absolutely pure in thought and deed and totally compatible.

What I might post as a footer has no bearing at all on how Bash should leave his pregnant wife and somehow be well thought of for it.

Noor, it is hard to take you seriously here. You ignore the ideals you post. Then you want to boil down complex and painful situations to black and white absolutes. You make it easy to extend your arguments to their silly extremes.

You call Bash "a friend" but look at the picture you paint of him -- dumping him in with those who DO cheat, who DO abandon and who knock up and run.

I believe that you mean well here, that you value commitment and honor and that you are calling to Bash to hold on to his wife with those things in mind.

But what about caring that Bash lives -- beyond the role of gentleman -- in a place where honesty and love of oneself also has its rightful role.

I believe that Bash should tell his wife frankly of what he has been feeling so that she, as a responsible adult, can make the right decisions for herself. Whether that includes bringing the child into the world is her choice -- it always is, regardless of the demands and expectations of men. Let's encourage him to talk to her as directly as he has talked to us on this forum.

You ask, what of the long term damage?

Well, let me echo what others have already said in this thread: the long term damage of deep-seated marital unhappiness is one that no one -- Bash, wife and child -- should bear.