How does one leave?

[bashfull]

*****Deep Breath****

Ok, I really need to get this out and Lit seems like the only place where I can talk freely and perhaps get some advice.

For those of you who have posted with me, for quite a few months now I've been blurting about "sorting some things out". Well, here's the "sorting out".

First, a little background. I have been married for 12 years. As soon as we wed, my wife literally lost interest in sex. This from a woman who couldn't keep her hands off me for the years we dated. In addition, I discovered that the romantic gestures and the "sweet things" I did were mocked and not appreciated. I've written quite a bit about this on my Romance vs. Raunch thread. In the ensuing years, we have developed completely different interests. The only thing we have in common any more is our child. We don't fight. As a matter of fact, she is a great woman and a good friend. However, there is no passion.

We have tried counseling several times and several couselors. Each time, she stops going, saying that the counselor is "siding" with me. For years, the only time she has reached out for me (emotionally and physically as a lover) is when I eventually become so frustrated and withdrawn that I am on the verge of leaving. This takes quite a bit for me as I am not a quitter. So, for about six weeks, she is the woman I intended to marry. But then she lapses back into her routine.

In addition to the immediate drop in sex, I discovered shortly after we wed that she thought my romance and adorations to be quite amusing. She would laugh at the love letters and poems I used to send her. If that wasn't enough, she admitted that she would share them with her friends (before we were married and living in different cities) and they would all get quite the laugh. Since this discovery, I never wrote another poem nor love letter/note to her.

I am committed to raising my son to be a southern gentleman. And to teach him that a man can be a stronger man by respecting women and treating them as ladies...to value romance and make a woman feel wanted, adored, and respected. When my wife would laugh at his comments (e.g. calling him Eddie Haskle when he would open her door and tell her how pretty she is), she and I had a heated discussion. I informed her that no matter what she thought of me doing these things, she would NOT discourage him.

I found and started posting on Lit as a way to express my desires (sexually and otherwise) and as an outlet. She has no knowledge of my writings, my fantasies, my musings.

About six months ago, I finally, emotionally, admitted defeat and decided that it would be best if we separated. It took another three to four months for me to finally build the courage to tell her, though she had to know it was comming. I decided that we would take a day to ourselves, have the grandparents watch our son, and discuss this.

About a week before this eventful day, however, she came into my room and woke me (75% of the time, we sleep in separate rooms). Guess what? She's pregnant! After almost a decade of no protection, she gets pregnant as I'm about to leave.

So here is the gist of it: I can't bring myself to leave a pregnant woman. It goes against everything instilled in my being.

The problem now is that after years of grappling with leaving, the decision to finally leave became a committment to me. Now, not being able to leave, I find myself often mired in depression. I am an aggressive, assertive, "take charge" person. In the past, when I've felt down, it's lasted but a few days. I work myself out of it by working out, deliberately seeking fun activities, hanging out with my son, etc. But now I can't seem to shake it. I've been dealing with this (not very well) for over a month now. It's made it so that I can't sleep more than an hour or two at time, I find myself lacking motivation to work, I can't get myself out of a funk. So what do I do?

 

[sereneone4u]

HUGS

Same thing happened to me...although sex is definitely not a problem....I was going to leave in 2003 and became pregnant with TWINS. I don't have any words of advice just yet....will PM you when I do. Just wanted you to know I feel for your predictament and commend you on always taking the high road despite harsh emotional abuse from your wife.

 

[bashfull]

HUGS

Same thing happened to me...although sex is definitely not a problem....I was going to leave in 2003 and became pregnant with TWINS. I don't have any words of advice just yet....will PM you when I do. Just wanted you to know I feel for your predictament and commend you on always taking the high road despite harsh emotional abuse from your wife.

Thank you, darlin'. Sorry to hear you are in the same predicament.

 

[bill1955]

Hi, bashfull,

I'm not good at the fluffy talk and sympathy. So please stop reading right here if that's what you need right now.

=======

The thing that snagged my attention in your long first post is how did your wife get pregnant? Obviously, you must be the father because the announcement didn't faze you. How could she have gotten pregnant if she's not having sex with you? So I have to discount your intimations that your wife has lost interest in sex...you've had sex enough to get her pregnant.

I gather you're very motivated by ethics--you say you want to stand by your wife during this pregnancy.

What I see (and this isn't a personal attack but an attempt to give a somewhat objective reaction to the facts you posted) is a man who at heart believes he is the victim of circumstances and a marriage with someone he's incompatible with. Can you turn that thinking around for a minute and see what are the things you can do while in the marriage to make it good for you? Line things up in your mind if you really believe you want to stick around through the pregnancy and perhaps the early years of the second child. Go into it with your all, without expecting your wife to be romantic or have increased interest in sex. Focus on what *you* can do and not on what she's not doing. My AA friends say, "Take your inventory, not someone else's." This makes a lot of sense to me.

Edited to add: I re-read the title of this thread. Are you looking for advice on how to justify leaving now?

 

[bashfull]

Hi, bashfull,

I'm not good at the fluffy talk and sympathy. So please stop reading right here if that's what you need right now.

=======

The thing that snagged my attention in your long first post is how did your wife get pregnant? Obviously, you must be the father because the announcement didn't faze you. How could she have gotten pregnant if she's not having sex with you? So I have to discount your intimations that your wife has lost interest in sex...you've had sex enough to get her pregnant.

I gather you're very motivated by ethics--you say you want to stand by your wife during this pregnancy.

What I see (and this isn't a personal attack but an attempt to give a somewhat objective reaction to the facts you posted) is a man who at heart believes he is the victim of circumstances and a marriage with someone he's incompatible with. Can you turn that thinking around for a minute and see what are the things you can do while in the marriage to make it good for you? Line things up in your mind if you really believe you want to stick around through the pregnancy and perhaps the early years of the second child. Go into it with your all, without expecting your wife to be romantic or have increased interest in sex. Focus on what *you* can do and not on what she's not doing. My AA friends say, "Take your inventory, not someone else's." This makes a lot of sense to me.

Edited to add: I re-read the title of this thread. Are you looking for advice on how to justify leaving now?

Bill,
Thanks for the comments. I didn't say that we never have sex...just extremely rarely. As for being the victim of circumstance, I tried for years to make it work. She literally had to be drunk on our honeymoon for us to sleep together. I am a romantic at heart. I've given her flowers for no reason...wisked her away for romantic weekend getaways...suprised her in such ways as buying and hiding roses till she went to bed then going out to her car...pulling off the petals and showering the inside of her car with them so she would start her day in a special way...etc., etc. (I've written about these things on my Romance vs. Raunch thread). I've also taken us to several couselors. For awhile, I even gave up the notion of sex...just wanted emotional intimacy...to little or no avail. The only thing that has ever worked is if I am ready to walk out the door and then it only lasts about six weeks. Finally after years of trying and see sawing back and forth, I threw in the towel. Only to get hit with this whammy.

 

[BeachGurl2]

When people talk about having babies, you're supposed to say congrats. But knowing the situation you're in, Bash, it's a little hard for me to say that to you today. I know how hard it was for you to finally come to the decision to leave. And the fact that she's now pregnant - if she really is? - will test your integrity and code of honor. I know how hard you've worked to try to make it work.

People here can give you advice, can bitch at you for even thinking of leaving while she's pregnant, and can say things like 'get out now'. But the bottom line is that you have to live with yourself. You have an incredible sense of honor about you that will keep you from doing anything you feel will harm her or your son, or even the child that isn't here yet.

But you also have to think about how your decision will affect your children. I've spent years studying the cognitive development of children - as a teacher, I wanted to know all I could know about how best to help them. And I've watched my own daughters as I lived in and left an emotionally/psychologically abusive marriage. It's been very hard to watch my 19yo choose boyfriends who are very much like my ex - controlling, emotionally abusive, angry, negative, selfish. She's been in her current relationship for a year now and it gets worse all the time - his need for control, I mean. She's finally starting to see it. I can only do so much to help her. The decision has to be hers. But the part of me that feels responsible for her choices cries about it all the time. If I had left him sooner . . . if I had never married him . . . if . . . The bottom line is that I made those choices and now I have to deal with the consequences. I have to help her through it until she finally believes she is deserving of better than what she's getting.

If you are unhappy in your marriage to the point that none of your needs are being met, your kids see that. And they learn from it. They learn what marriage is all about by watching their parents' marriage. Not by listening to what you say, but by watching what you do. And they believe that is what they deserve. So they end up seeking out similar relationships. That's why things like abuse and welfare a cyclical with people. You stick with what you know because the unknown is too frightening.

You deserve happiness. I agree that you are in a tough spot right now. Leaving while she's pregnant is a very tough call. So stay until she has the baby. Why people feel the need to tell you that it's your responsibility to stay forever, I don't get. Your decision to leave wasn't a selfish one. It was one of self preservation. It takes 2 people to work on a relationship. If only one is doing the work while the other just keeps on doing what they're doing, then it's not going to work. And you can't drive your self image into the ground while trying. Everyone deserves better than that. And no one here truly knows what's gone on in your marriage. So some will give you advice that works and some will tell you what a loser they think you are. Don't let them get to you. Take the good, leave out the rest.

I wish you well, my friend.

PS. You have a PM waiting.

 

[sereneone4u]

I was coming back to this post with so much to say, but BeachGurl2 said it all and so well....Best Wishes to you bashful, if you need to talk please PM.

 

[Ezzy]

If you have the facilities and the funds, and even if you still love her...move out!

Live your life and care for your son, and the new baby. Support your wife when she needs it with baby-sitting duties, or trips to the Doctors, etc. Keep up your support of the household, through thick and thin.

You may want to legally separate or even divorce, if she had some passion pre-marriage but lost it as soon as she was married, that sounds like commitment issues to me, divorce her an the person you loved when you met her has a chance to re- emerge.

Years ago I had friends who had been together, (unmarried), for 12 or 13 years, her grandma had always wanted to see her married before she died. The grandma had a bad fall and was hospitalized, believing that grandma did not have a lot of time left they got married, just a civil ceremony, and a feast with grandma in the hospital, then a reception late in the afternoon.

The only thing that had really changed for them, as a couple was they now had a piece of paper that said they were married, and two parties. They started to argue about the little things that had never bothered them before, the arguments got bigger after grandma died, and bigger still a few months afterwards. So they eventually divorced, without argument about who got what, and low and behold, they were friends again inside a month and went back to living and loving each other as they had done for 13 out of their 14 years together.

So I say move out, get on with your life, love your kids, but date and or even marry again.

It is a struggle to uphold two houses on a single salary, but it is better to struggle a little but be happy in yourself, who knows she may turn around on you again as my friends did, DON'T what ever you do marry her again, it will just return to the situation you are in at the moment.

 

[southernsky]

What would I do if I were you?

I would buy two EPT tests, take her into the bathroom, and have her take the tests in front of me. Assuming she was pregnant, I would have a paternity test after that baby was born so fast it would make her head spin. She does NOT sound like a NICE woman. She does NOT appear to CARE about you. Going behind your back with your intimate and personal letters? Feeling paranoid because the counselor most likely told her that you were right, and you most likely WERE? I would say this woman is manipulative, and I would leave. You can have custody of the child too, and you can make it work out. Put your happiness up there too. A child raised by one happy parent will do better than one raised by two unhappy parents.

I would also consider hiring a PI to find out why she has such a "low sex drive". Maybe i'm just in a bad mood today, but it sounds like this woman has got your number good and she is getting off on your unhappiness for some unknown reason.

 

[Monazwx]

*****Deep Breath****

As a matter of fact, she is a great woman and a good friend. However, there is no passion.

She would laugh at the love letters and poems I used to send her. If that wasn't enough, she admitted that she would share them with her friends (before we were married and living in different cities) and they would all get quite the laugh.

She doesn't sound like a great woman to me. Not at all.
Is she bipolar, or grapling with some mental disorder? (Just askin')

About a week before this eventful day, however, she came into my room and woke me (75% of the time, we sleep in separate rooms). Guess what? She's pregnant! After almost a decade of no protection, she gets pregnant as I'm about to leave.

So here is the gist of it: I can't bring myself to leave a pregnant woman. It goes against everything instilled in my being.

So what do I do?

Run, . . . and fast. She is a manipulative cow. The baby may not even be yours. If it is, take care of it, but from afar. She's already broken your spirit and critizes the way your raise your first child. Do you think that things would be better with your second? She baited and switched on the marriage and is using the baby to keep you because she knows you won't leave. Surprise the bitch.

 

[Monazwx]

What would I do if I were you?

I would buy two EPT tests, take her into the bathroom, and have her take the tests in front of me. Assuming she was pregnant, I would have a paternity test after that baby was born so fast it would make her head spin. She does NOT sound like a NICE woman. She does NOT appear to CARE about you. Going behind your back with your intimate and personal letters? Feeling paranoid because the counselor most likely told her that you were right, and you most likely WERE? I would say this woman is manipulative, and I would leave. You can have custody of the child too, and you can make it work out. Put your happiness up there too. A child raised by one happy parent will do better than one raised by two unhappy parents.

I would also consider hiring a PI to find out why she has such a "low sex drive". Maybe i'm just in a bad mood today, but it sounds like this woman has got your number good and she is getting off on your unhappiness for some unknown reason.

I wish I had read this before I typed out my stuff. Anyways, in addition, I say move out now, while you still have the gumption to do so. When the baby's born, so might think, "I'll stay until s/he's a little older" and things will drag on for as long as you allow them to.

Also, how was her parent's marriage, which may tell you alot more than you need to know. It sounds as if she doesn't respect your respect for her as a female in general, (as she has no issue with her son being respectful or disrespectful). As for the low sex drive, SouthernSky maybe on to something, as it seems that she can be 'sexy' at will. You might wanna do some checking.

 

[cele2flowers]

I must agree with a few things that have been said so far. BeachGurl2 said it best. Granted I don't have children, I've looked at what happens in unhappy marriages. I was raised in one...and they're still together. For many many years I've questioned my father's happiness. My mother is very manipulative of everyone in her life. No one is safe from her on that account. I've often wondered how my life would be different if they had split. The thing is, unless the mother is in prison or you're in good with the judge, she's going to get custody. In light of that, I'm glad they didn't split up.

I'm also divorced and thankfully never got pregnant while I was married. It was very very difficult for me to finally say "I've had enough, I'm out of here." For my own happiness and sanity, I had to do it. I understand where you're at though. I'd talked about divorce a time or two and was the proud recipient of what I came to call the "guilt bouquet."

I'm also going to agree with what southernsky said. Either go and get an EPT test or go with her to her next doctor's appointment. I'd also question the paternity. I've known someone in a slightly similar situation. Children were not involved, since he had a vasectomy, but sex dwindled and went to nothing after she had a female problem of somekind. Doctor couldn't find anything wrong with her and decided it was psychological. Turns out she'd been having an affair almost since day 1 of their marriage.

So, in the end, what would I do?
1. Go to your lawyer and discuss your options with him/her.
2. Get a pregnancy test and watch her take it in front of you OR go to her next ob/gyn appointment and have it confirmed to you by her doctor. Then do the paternity test after it's born.
3. Decide what you feel is going to be best for both you and your son. Remember, he is learning by your example, not just your words.

 

[human_male]

I'm with everyone who says walk. Definately still support her through her pregnancy (once it's established that she actually is pregnant) and support your children. But find someone who will appreciate what a good man you obviously are. I mean what's wrong with this woman? Seriously, sheesh.

I'm a cynic. So I don't know if it's just the cynic in me that's talking (and it's not like I have any real life experience so keep that in mind), but I've seen so many of these posts... the wife completely loses interest in sex immediately after marriage, and the only time they show signs of change is when the guy threatens to leave... I've come to believe that these men (and you) have been completely taken for a ride. The women pretend to be something they're not in order to hook you, and as soon as they get you and you're married their true self comes out. Who knows why they do this. Because they want someone to support them, and a companion I suppose. But it's wrong, and unfair. If it happened to me I'd be out the door in days rather than years. Because I've wasted half of my life being deprived of love, intimacy and sex, there's no fucking way I'd waste a minute more if I didn't have to. There's no way I'd burden myself supporting a woman who's basically just a con artist.

I say all this assuming that it's not the husband's fault that the wife has turned away from them (or that I'd done something wrong if I were married). I'm sure there are many cases like that, and that's equally sad. But I'm not talking about those cases I'm talking about marriages like yours. And the only question there is how bad will it have to get, and how miserable will you have to be before you finally get out?

 

[dcraz]

Bash,

I have seen your posts over the year and seen how so many respond to you enough to have a pretty good sense of the kind of man you are. A man filled with kindness and respect for others. A man with a gentle strength and appreciation for responsibility and integrity. Having said that, reading your story is difficult. Not difficult to understand, but painful to consider your situation.

Unlike some here, I would not begin to understand enough about your circumstances to offer any absolute advice. But BeachGirl had some wonderful thoughts on your situation. If my child were 16 or 17, I might consider staying for the sake of the children, until they got out of high school. But having said that, I do not believe ‘for the children’ is ever an acceptable excuse for staying. Children know what’s going on. They sense what is happening. And is there any greater disservice to a child than to raise them in a house devoid of love?

You say she is a great woman and a good friend. Although you have nothing in common (different interests) other than your child. I wonder just how she could be considered a good friend given how empty she has left you emotionally. I might assume this comment has as much to do with your view of women and your positive outlook on life in general. You strike me as someone that finds it difficult to say anything negative about her except for how she leaves you emotionally abandoned. Nothing wrong with being kind, but I wonder just how good a friend she really is for you given what you have shared here.

What ever you do, do not compromise your principles and the way you are raising your son. I often joke about being a simple man with simple values. Having been born and raised in Texas, I have a very stereotypical view of women. They are to be respected and cherished always. I will always open the door for them, reach out when I can offer help (whether it is requested or not). I say yes ma’am, no sir, thank you and please. And I demand that my son do the same. I for one believe these values are terribly lacking in today’s society and I commend you for your ideals and commitment to raise a fine young man molded after his father. When your wife makes fun of him or criticizes him for the ways you have taught him, wait till you have a private moment and explain to him why these ideals are important.

It seems obvious you are no quitter. And there may still be a time to try. But I think you need to take some time and take a measure of where you are in life. Is this a life you want to live for the next 30 years? The depression you are falling into can, and may already become debilitating. It will effect more than your marriage and home life. It can eat at you till it effects your work, your career, your other friendships and ultimately, even the relationship you have with your children.

I would think it might be time to move out. Just to separate for a while and let everyone catch their breath. You say you already sleep in different rooms. The kids see this already as a broken home. Sit your son down and explain it to him. Let him ask questions and be as honest as you can. Stay involved, continue to pay the bills, just move out for now. Take stock. If you decide to leave, understand what it will cost you. Financially and emotionally. You did not say if you were the sole bread winner or not. But it will be expensive. And that is before you get a divorce. Two households will cost a lot. Counseling, if you get to that step again will cost. Lawyers will cost you plenty. And child support will be more than you think. I would expect you to fight for custody of your son, or joint custody as a minimum. The same with the new born. But there is no reason you cannot be an active, involved father of the new baby even if you are separated or divorced. If she is a great woman and a good friend, this could be the best solution for both of you.

The only word of advice I can offer is one I doubt you need. Hold your ground, fight for what you believe in, be fair and always take the high road. No matter what happens, no one can take away your personal self respect but you.

Good luck to you my man.

 

[Cathleen]

Oh, sweet Bash, how difficult for you. I have not a thing to offer but my thoughts. I have no ideas or advice, I just wish you the best.

 

[Mitsouko]

Ramblings for the Iceman

Some of what I have to say may come off a bit strong and critical, but I am going to give it to you straight because I am fond of you and this is something that really matters. I also have not slept much for a long time so it may not be as coherent as I would like but here goes:

People who belittle other people often have serious self esteem issues. People who laugh with friends off anther's heart filled letters, are people who are scared and are looking for support of some sort. Your romantic gestures may feel fake or unreal to someone who doesn't really value themselves. It may make them feel uncomfortable because underneath they don't feel worth it. Another problem I have seen frequently is a partner looking at romantic gestures as pressure for sex and most women when pressured just shut down sexually. The one thing I am reading from what you are saying is she does not like or appreciate your romantic gestures, they may even be driving her further away from you, yet you continue to hold them up as evidence of your love.

From what little I know of you, and considering that she is pregnant now, I don't think this issue is a sexual one or even one of intimacy, I think it's one of power and acceptance. You are a very strong person, Bash, someone most people would have a hard time standing up to. I think she maybe doing this to retain some sense of power within the relationship. Neither of you seems to feel accepted by the other. Take for example the romantic gestures which she obviously is not comfortable with, you are unbending, it feels from what you say that you are right and she should appreciate them simply because you want her to without regard to her feelings. Your posts on this matter seem to ask for support that you are right and she is wrong, when there is no right or wrong about it, just what is comfortable to each person.

You need to know why this happened, why she changed, you may find that she thinks you have changed as well. You can only change yourself, but often changing yourself can causing a reaction of change in another. You both need to find a way to communicate to find a middle ground if you are to stay, which I get the feeling is what you would like, if possible.

I am not sure about therapists and talk therapy, I have been to couples counseling in the past and have found that standard solutions present are often dictated by the therapist's own culture. The therapist may indeed side with you, or her. In the past, I and my partner found a good therapist to be incredibly difficult to find because of our cultural backgrounds.
Their sense of family, loyalty and responsibility seemed skewed. There seemed to be a very superficial throw away ideal, one where people were right or wrong with ultimatums and absolutes. In my world, at times loyalty and absolute trust has meant the difference between life or death. When one experiences a lot of loss esp. early on in life, it crystallizes the petty from the superficial, and its very hard for those who have never experienced that to understand.

Regarding your son, you are both his parents, you must find a level of gentlemanliness that you both can support. For myself, I prefer men who are polite and considerate but I distrust adoring men. I prefer equality and respect, unearned adoration feels false to me as it does to many other women I have spoken with. At times, it can even feel very degrading. How I look is mainly due to an accident of birth, being told I am pretty can just remind me of my second class citizenship in this world where genetic beauty in a woman is considered more important than most anything else, being brought up with money is a woman's next most important asset, if you don't believe me , just ask a woman who has neither. I don't agree with her making fun of your son, frankly I don't think people should ever laugh at another person's expense, but I can understand her wanting to limit it for his own future.

Marriage vows usually include the words "for better or for worse" this is the worse part, you can leave your marriage but you will be connected to your wife forever by your children. Her being pregnant maybe a gift to you and your relationship in her mind, its definitely a very intimate action. It is clear you can not continue like this, but I am not sure leaving is the answer. If you were truly committed to leaving six months ago you would not have had sex with your wife and gotten her pregnant. If she really didn't want you, she would not have allowed it to happen either. Sometimes things like this happen because when one person checks out of a relationship on some level, they stop putting as much pressure on the relationship.

I think the easiest, best way to either leave or stay is to level with her. Not have secrets, share your writing, fantasizing and musings with her. Let her read what you posted at the beginning of the thread, so she knows what you are thinking. Try to find some common values together, the 10 commandments are a good place to start as it appears a few have been broken. See if you are both willing to let go of some things. See if you guys can find ways to show love, affection and intimacy you can both feel comfortable with.

You might also try focusing on what works with each other, what you both like about each other, why you got married in the first place. See if she is willing to try that. Maybe go on simple dates where you talk about nothing but your dreams. From what you say it does sound like she goes through periods of trying to work things out and you like what happens but then she stops trying, maybe you could think about why she stops, what happens, what isn't she getting in exchange for what you are. It could be something very simple. For myself in a relationship I know I need some consistent down time that I can count on, and also to know what is happening. To be on a consistent schedule of knowing when I am going to see my partner to just hang out with and do something fun together. I also need A LOT of uninterrupted sleep, if I do not get those things my relationship will suffer. You need to find out what each other needs and give each other that.

If this was a business partnership with a long term contract that would be disastrous to break, would you continue trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Try something different, get input from the other side, look for a win-win situation.
Don't make demands, negotiate, find out the real bottom line together, because as good negotiators know, the real bottom line is rarely what the parties are arguing about.

A question for you, does your irregular hours and travel schedule effect your sleeping arrangements? Would you be willing to give that up for your marriage?

I am not sure talking out problems is always the way to go for change, esp if you haven't been able to do it so far. There are a few books you might want to read that might help:
why talking is not enough-8 loving actions that will transform your marriage" by Susan Page
Doesn't Anyone Blush Anymore?: Reclaiming Intimacy, Modesty, and Sexuality by Manis Friedman
and
The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom

 

[KinkyDaisy]

You seem to be looking for something that you are not getting within your marriage. You seem to have given it enough time and effort, and whatever that missing piece is still has not appeared.

Now anything could happen, but the birth of a second child is probably not going to find it for you, if you stay.

It takes a lot of courage to leave a pregnant woman. Yes .. you read that right. COURAGE. When you KNOW (like you seem to) that it isnt right, why keep doing whats not working and prevent yourself from maybe finding something/someone that will? You can still love your child and be there for him in every way without being married to/living with his Mother. You had your mind made up that you were no longer going to live with your 1st childs Mother .. really how does the second child change things?

Is not being with her ideal? Of course not! But what is ultimately more important? Sanity and happiness or the "impression that everything is ok"?

All each of us can do is search for our own happiness, find and feed our own desires, and LIVE our own lives. Dont stop living because of this circumstance. Its just not healthy for any of you.

Things will be ok in the end. If they are not ok .. its not the end.

Take care.

 

[DeviantMarine]

Bash... Damn.
I have been in a similar situation and I just have to add my 2 cents in here..

Okay, the main thing I want to address is this. "I can't bring myself to leave a pregnant woman." Ask yourself why. Because if it's just the chivalrous 'she needs me' attitude that won't let you go, get the hell out. She doesn't need you. If she did, and you still needed her, you wouldn't even be on here asking 'how do i leave?'. You will be doing just as much to support her from a distance if you leave as you will be if you stay. In other words, you'll still be paying the bills as needed. Because lets face it, that's really the only thing she needs you for. Oh, and maybe to get something off the top shelf of the cabinet from time to time (which, btw, that's what a stepstool is for). (She obviously doesn't have any, or at least not very much of, an emotional or physical need for you.)

Lets look at why you don't want to leave for a second.. because of your son? Commendable, but you're not doing him any good, nor will you be doing your next child any good, by raising them in a home where their parents aren't happy with each other. Someone said in a previous post that you're just teaching your kids what is acceptable. One question you can ask yourself is...'what if my son were in this same situation when he gets to be my age? What if he came and asked me, "Dad, what do you think I should do?"' If you can honestly tell him that the best thing for him to do would be stay in his unhappy, unfulfilled, unloving marriage, teaching HIS kids that that kind of relationship is the norm, well then by all means... stay in your marriage, stick it out, teach your son to settle for something when he knows there has to be something better.

I know some may not agree, but a free country is what I fight for, so there's my two cents worth.
`DM

 

[KinkyDaisy]

I just have to say that neither Deviant Marine or i have ever been happier in a relationship. His leaving her directly resulted in that happiness.

It was SO worth it in the end. Good Luck, hon. Im sure you will do the right thing .. whatever that might be.

 

[bashfull]

Thank you all for your input and comments. I don't really have time right now to comment individually but I hope to later this week.

^5 fellas

's ladies


Bash

 

[Fennel]

I am so impressed by the thoughtfulness and care that many of you have given to Bash.

My advance apologies for what seems so cold to say:

I believe that you should be frank with your wife NOW about the decision you HAD made to leave and how troubling THIS news is in light of that decision. I know that no one wants to speak of abortion here, but your wife might determine that she does not want to have an additional child with a husband on the verge of leaving (or even strongly considering it).

My best wishes to you in this troubling time.

 

[an_angels_wings]

I've never seen you on the boards before and, hey, I'm brank spankin' new, so I hope it's all right that I add in my thoughts.

One of the first things that struck me was curiosity. I'm really itching to know why your wife suddenly lost interest in sex, etc., once you got married. It seems really, really strange to all of a sudden go from not being able to keep her hands off of you to being distant in the bedroom. You've probably brought this up within therapy sessions and whatnot, and maybe your wife is afraid that you're only looking at her as a piece of meat. Though, judging by the sweet things you say you've done for her, I have no idea how she can think that you want anything more from her than love (in which sex and sexual satisfaction plays a deep and interconnecting role, in my book). There's gotta' be something there. Had you not had sex beforehand? I mean, maybe when it did happen it wasn't what she expected? Maybe it hurt? Maybe it was great for you but sucked/sucks for her? Maybe see about what you can do in that area to make it more pleasurable for her. I am a firm believer in if you take care of your woman sexually and make sure she is pleased and is having/has had an excellent time, it'll come back to you tenfold, in the bedroom and elsewhere.

The other thing that I thought of, and I really hate to say this because I hate to be skeptical of another woman (though I hate to think a man is being wronged by a manipulative woman), is that she might be lying to you about the pregnancy because she knows that you're an honourable man and would want to stay. I'm incredibly sorry, I know that's not something that you want to think about or even consider (you know, you're a faithful, loyal husband and whatnot), but honestly, you even said that she's not the woman you fell in love with ... and that's a definite problem. I think it's awful that she's laughed about your letters and your poems; that shows me that she is deeply insecure and doesn't consider herself worthy of such actions and attentions (or, perhaps, she's just a bitch, but I have a hard time believing you'd love a malicious woman). My ex-boyfriend would send me little poems and even read one to me over the phone (we mostly shared a long-distance relationship) and the fact that he took the time to think and feel and write such things made me feel like gold. Men are told not to express themselves emotionally, and here was the exact opposite of that expectation ... it was beautiful. You mentioning of being far apart initially sparked another few questions in my mind ... how long had you known each other before getting together? Did you live together before getting married or were you mostly in an LDR? Not that you can change the past, but some of these answers may give you reasons for what's going on now. Those reasons may or may not be fixable. Who knows? I'm also wondering about regional differences. I grew up in New York and I currently attend university in the south (except for now, I'm in a different country all together), and while I'm a believer in fantasy and chivalry and romance, it's not taught and expected of men like it is in the south. I think it's quite fine that you're raising your child with manners, and if she scoffs at that, you're not presenting a united front to your son, and he is already aware of the divides between you (even with the fact that you sleep in separate bedrooms aside).

You're probably so torn up right now. If your wife is pregnant and it's your baby you have a duty as the father of that child FIRST (I'm putting husband second, because at this point, I consider you mentally divorced from the relationship) to take care of it and assure that it is loved and provided for. I think you need to talk this over with your wife ... I feel like your having tried to work things out for so long and coming to nothing has established a pattern and given you the answer that you're looking for. She may not have thought that you were incredibly serious about leaving her ... that you would entertain the idea but only as a manipulation yourself of her in order to get that closeness. There needs to be a serious discussion where she needs to realize your wants, desires, needs, and thoughts; she needs to not scoff or be defensive, because this is serious and not a time for High School games of drama, blame, and he-said/she-said. And if she does, then you know you're doing the right thing about getting out. And if she seriously looks like it wants to work, then maybe you should go with it. But the second it turns exactly as it was before, you deserve to be able to get out. Because you've given it a second chance, a third chance, and, hell, maybe even a fourteenth chance; but at least this time she was very well aware of what was at stake; you warned her, the ball's in her court. If she can't or doesn't return it, then walk away from the game, my friend.

Anyway, I'm really sorry that you're in this state. I can only imagine how it must be. Hope that things do work out, and I'd be more than happy to continue with this discussion.

~ Kay

 

[Noor]

There seem to be many issues here, but the most pressing one is leave now or leave later, if you actually end up leaving.

I can see why you wouldn't want to leave your pregnant wife, because the child she carries is yours, and innocent. Your leaving is going to put stress on her and thus the child. Your reasons for leaving seem to be no different than before, and you have stayed for so long, another 9 months seems like hardly any time compared to 12 yrs.

I have some other things but I will take them off the board.

 

[Noor]

you don't fight? and the only time she is passionate is when you do? fighting is part of relationships, if you don't have conflict you can't get stronger, it makes us re-evaluate our relationship over and over again, and strengthens it.

 

[Lady Raptor]

Bash...I have seen some of the pain in your marriage show through in other threads. It makes me want to take her by the shoulders and shake while screaming "don't you realize how lucky you are to have such a wonderful man?"

You asked for advice and there have many good points made here. You already decided what is best for you, you need to follow through with it. In the end, it will be the best decision for your family.