Housing

[MajorRewrite]

Los Angeles building permits are 2% of value for the basic permit.
The plan check fee is about 1.4% of value.
Coastal Development Review starts in at $12,000 and can easily run into the hundreds of thousands for certain properties such as we see in Malibu after the fires.
CEQA review starts in around $25,000 not including additional legal fees.
If the house has an onsite-septic system or OWTS then that review alone can easily surpass $100,000.

You can also run into conflicting regulatory jurisdictions where one agency requires you to build certain things while another forbids you from doing them. Property owners caught in the middle bear the responsibility of sorting out the mess in court.

In LA the median home price is right now around $1.2 million.

Assuming the new construction home can be connected to a sewer line the cost runs out to $40,000 to $50,000 including street excavation. This is still cheaper than the OWTS would be.

So, based on the median price of $1.2m (for a new 3/2/2 home) the numbers work out like:

Building permit: $24,000
Plan Check Fee: $16,800
CDR: $12,000
CEQA: $25,000
Sewer connection: $40,000

In this case I chose the low end of the expense range and the total?

$117,800

Making up numbers is fun.

 

[Baztrachian]

Making up numbers is fun.

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[briancamdudetenger2018]

well housing in new york city back in the late 60s and in the 70s were pretty bad

 

[Baztrachian]

well housing in new york city back in the late 60s and in the 70s were pretty bad

The first problem in NYC was rent control. Landlords could not afford to perform repairs on their properties, the properties were impossible to sell, and the end result was hundreds and thousands of rental properties in NYC being abandoned and ultimately demolished.

And before some drooling fuckwit weighs in here to throw shade on my numbers here's the corroboration from Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_regulation_in_New_York

A 2025 report by the New York City Rent Guidelines Board found that the city had nearly 50,000 empty but unavailable units because their operating or renovation costs could not be recouped through legally allowable rents.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Basic facts about housing in New York City …

In the past five years, 136,000 new homes have been added to New York City’s housing supply. During this five-year period, the city added 70% of the 2010-2020 total, a significant increase. If this pace continues to 2030, the city could exceed 200,000 new units in a decade for the first time since the 1960s.

The 2023 NYC Housing and Vacancy Survey found the citywide net rental vacancy rate was just 1.4%–the lowest it has been since 1968.

 

[BoredDirtyCommie]

https://medium.com/@hrnews1/report-93-of-people-in-china-own-their-own-homes-3610ae104cc4

"China’s home ownership rate sits at an extraordinary 93%, according to data from the National Bureau of Statistics of China. This isn’t just a number — it’s a testament to what a government can achieve when it actually prioritizes the wellbeing of its citizens over corporate profits. Compare that to America’s pathetic 65%, and you start to understand why Western media works overtime to distract you with narratives about “authoritarianism” rather than discussing actual material outcomes for ordinary people."

The problem is capitalism.

 

[Chernosoth]

Urban planning and residential architecture went a long way down some dead end alleys. There will be more dead ends, but cities everywhere will be converging towards common practical solutions as the dead ends become too expensive.

One of the issues is lack of qualified maintenance and construction workers. Rebuilding a competent labor force could take as long as letting it disappear. When every five story rowhouse has a live in landlord or superintendent who can do basic repairs instead of an absentee landlord contracting a crew to maintain hundreds of units, housing conditions may improve.

The housing bubble of 2008 is now reinflating. It will pop again. One of these bubbles will be the last on the west coast, which is becoming the new rust belt as it loses its cut of global commerce and climate change burns a few more towns every year. With a permanently depressed economy, increasing drought, and cratering birthrate, west coast population will be falling a long way down. The stronger long term housing markets are in the regions with plenty of potable water, especially on a few major water routes, the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers, Great Lakes, and the Erie Canal.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Urban planning and residential architecture went a long way down some dead end alleys. There will be more dead ends, but cities everywhere will be converging towards common practical solutions as the dead ends become too expensive.

One of the issues is lack of qualified maintenance and construction workers. Rebuilding a competent labor force could take as long as letting it disappear. When every five story rowhouse has a live in landlord or superintendent who can do basic repairs instead of an absentee landlord contracting a crew to maintain hundreds of units, housing conditions may improve.

The housing bubble of 2008 is now reinflating. It will pop again. One of these bubbles will be the last on the west coast, which is becoming the new rust belt as it loses its cut of global commerce and climate change burns a few more towns every year. With a permanently depressed economy, increasing drought, and cratering birthrate, west coast population will be falling a long way down. The stronger long term housing markets are in the regions with plenty of potable water, especially on a few major water routes, the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers, Great Lakes, and the Erie Canal.

You’re not allowed to post your dystopian fantasy novel here in the forums.

 

[Chernosoth]

You’re not allowed to post your dystopian fantasy novel here in the forums.

People can't live in partisan talking points. They need actual homes, built with resources we are depleting and skills we will need decades to recover.

 

[MajorRewrite]

They need actual homes, built with resources we are depleting and skills we will need decades to recover.

The 1.4 million homes built annually in this country aren’t built with resources and skills?

Your dystopian fantasies are fucking bizarre.

 

[Chernosoth]

The 1.4 million homes built annually in this country aren’t built with resources and skills?

Your dystopian fantasies are fucking bizarre.

Most of them are very poorly built in assembly line work by barely trained workers. They learn how to use nail guns and not much else. The materials are crap. Those are not durable houses. Developers are stuck in that situation because they spend fortunes on permits, inspections, fees, etc. Since they are mostly suburban houses, they would still be abandoned later, but that's no comfort to someone watching a house become unlivable at 10 years with 20 years left on a mortgage.

One of the practical solutions is we restore old homes built decades to centuries ago, when homes were built more durably with higher material standards, especially in the current rust belt, the midwest, where homes are much cheaper than the west coast bubble. After decades of neglect, there is plenty of work for competent workers. First the roof leaks and windows break, so there is usually water damage, but replacing some wood is cheaper than building a new house. Upgrade insulation, wiring, and maybe the plumbing, some foundation repair, and that's generally a house restored.

Where entire states are unaffordable, just leave.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Most of them are very poorly built in assembly line work by barely trained workers. They learn how to use nail guns and not much else. The materials are crap. Those are not durable houses. Developers are stuck in that situation because they spend fortunes on permits, inspections, fees, etc. Since they are mostly suburban houses, they would still be abandoned later, but that's no comfort to someone watching a house become unlivable at 10 years with 20 years left on a mortgage.

You: There are no resources or skills to build homes.
Me: 1.4 million homes are built in the US annually.
You: Assemby line barely trained crap permits inspections abandoned 10 years!!! !! !

You win today’s Bat-Shit Crazy Award!

What is it like living in a dystopian lunacy bubble? Are you shocked when you go to the grocery store and see fully stocked shelves?

 

[Baztrachian]

https://medium.com/@hrnews1/report-93-of-people-in-china-own-their-own-homes-3610ae104cc4

"China’s home ownership rate sits at an extraordinary 93%, according to data from the National Bureau of Statistics of China. This isn’t just a number — it’s a testament to what a government can achieve when it actually prioritizes the wellbeing of its citizens over corporate profits. Compare that to America’s pathetic 65%, and you start to understand why Western media works overtime to distract you with narratives about “authoritarianism” rather than discussing actual material outcomes for ordinary people."

The problem is capitalism.

China's statistics are always suspect.

I say that because no one actually owns their homes in China. They typically get as much as a 70-year long revocable lease from the State as opposed to actual home ownership with a permanent title of deed.

Real estate investment in China is higher than elsewhere mostly because it is one of the few investment instruments that is the least risky. Stocks in China are notoriously volatile due to prohibitions on most foreign investment. They are also volatile due to so many Chinese investment firms leveraging into real estate (see the Ghost Cities and Tofu Dreg Construction). A lesser problem is arbitrary changes and political crackdowns on corporations in China that sometimes erase hundreds of billions (US$) in equity overnight.

That leaves real estate as the best haven for wealth in China and that has caused anomalies in their market such as the aforementioned Ghost Cities and Tofu Dreg Construction.

Their Land Requisition laws are unevenly enforced with urban dwellers typically enjoying higher levels of protection than rural homeowners. Even then reports of people being ordered out of their homes an hour or two before demolition are not uncommon. People who are forcibly evicted from their homes typically receive little to no compensation for their losses.

 

[eric_erosfan]

Most of them are very poorly built in assembly line work by barely trained workers. They learn how to use nail guns and not much else. The materials are crap. Those are not durable houses. Developers are stuck in that situation because they spend fortunes on permits, inspections, fees, etc. Since they are mostly suburban houses, they would still be abandoned later, but that's no comfort to someone watching a house become unlivable at 10 years with 20 years left on a mortgage.

One of the practical solutions is we restore old homes built decades to centuries ago, when homes were built more durably with higher material standards, especially in the current rust belt, the midwest, where homes are much cheaper than the west coast bubble. After decades of neglect, there is plenty of work for competent workers. First the roof leaks and windows break, so there is usually water damage, but replacing some wood is cheaper than building a new house. Upgrade insulation, wiring, and maybe the plumbing, some foundation repair, and that's generally a house restored.

Where entire states are unaffordable, just leave.

No matter where they are built the building code today is much more strict than 50-100 years ago. Even modern mobile homes require 2x6 exterior walls and roofs capable of heavy snow loads.

This ain't the 70's.

 

[Iluv17]

 

[eric_erosfan]

View attachment 2604870

That looks like proverbs for dumbasses.

 

[Iluv17]

That looks like proverbs for dumbasses.

Its just the TRUTH! The TRUTH is simply the TRUTH and NEVER changes and the TRUTH ALWAYS WINS, ALWAYS!

 

[Wilson23]

Its just the TRUTH! The TRUTH is simply the TRUTH and NEVER changes and the TRUTH ALWAYS WINS, ALWAYS!

History provides many contrary examples.

 

[Chernosoth]

Plaster lath walls are more fire resistant than drywall, but nearly all new homes have drywall because it's much cheaper in materials and labor. That is one of many examples of construction standards falling over decades.

Outside the internet circle jerks of shouting lalala, can't hear you, everything is fine, people on tight budgets are looking for well made older products in all types of merchandise: houses, cars, cookware, etc. There are advantages and disadvantages. An old house might have lead paint and asbestos. An old car could lack basic safety features. But a house still standing and car still running after decades, at affordable prices, will get some notice.

 

[Wilson23]

Plaster lath walls are more fire resistant than drywall, but nearly all new homes have drywall because it's much cheaper in materials and labor. That is one of many examples of construction standards falling over decades.

Outside the internet circle jerks of shouting lalala, can't hear you, everything is fine, people on tight budgets are looking for well made older products in all types of merchandise: houses, cars, cookware, etc. There are advantages and disadvantages. An old house might have lead paint and asbestos. An old car could lack basic safety features. But a house still standing and car still running after decades, at affordable prices, will get some notice.

We just need to figure out a way to BUILD them OLD.

 

[Wilson23]

Thus subject RELATES to housing and I never pass up a chance to call attention to it:
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/the-new-urbanism.1647545/

 

[eric_erosfan]

Plaster lath walls are more fire resistant than drywall, but nearly all new homes have drywall because it's much cheaper in materials and labor. That is one of many examples of construction standards falling over decades.

Outside the internet circle jerks of shouting lalala, can't hear you, everything is fine, people on tight budgets are looking for well made older products in all types of merchandise: houses, cars, cookware, etc. There are advantages and disadvantages. An old house might have lead paint and asbestos. An old car could lack basic safety features. But a house still standing and car still running after decades, at affordable prices, will get some notice.

Lol. Those plaster walls were probably in an old house with a balloon frame. So whatever fire resistance you think you are getting with those walls, the entire house will become a raging inferno quicker than you can say "plaster lathe".