Hostility or Fear?

[Norajane]

I ran across a website recently that has a big section on dating and relationship advice for men (askmen.com). After reading some of the articles and looking at the titles of others, it struck me how hostile much of the advice is:

8 Ways to Keep the Upper Hand with Women
Maintain Control in Your Relationship
How to Test Your Girlfriend
Are Women Feminizing Men?
How to Keep Her on Her Toes
What Do Women Want (apparently, money and control)
Top Ten Signs You're Whipped

and on and on... Basically, the site portrays women as these grasping, controlling creatures and it's the rare gem that doesn't nag, doesn't care about the size of your wallet, and is loving and caring without being controlling.

Is this hostility, or is it fear and insecurity? Is this male point of view on women, dating, and relationships common, or just a hook for this website to get readers? Are men really that afraid of women?

 

[Guest]

 

[silverwhisper]

well said, scaly. well said indeed.

ed

 

[Norajane]

It is my opinion that men are really not that afraid of women. I haven't been to that site in a long time (your posts pretty much states it all for me) because the content is just too macho and unrealistic.

I would put the writers (and most likely the readers too) of that site in the category of men that refer to their wife or SO as "the wife" or "the old lady". Sorry, but I don't have much repect for men that need to put down women in order to feel respected by their peers.

Thanks, Scaly.

I've been out in the dating world for a long time, and I see that some men and women do feel bitter or hostile if they've had bad experiences in the past. And I've seen some threads around here about nice guys finishing last - this site seems to egg those nice guys into being jerks to protect themselves.

 

[EJFan]

i think, like all such things, you have to temper it with your own knowledge and experience.

i've never been to the site, nor have i investigated it for what i'm about to suggest... but i'm inclined to think it's pretty much the polar opposite of what cosmo has recommended/suggested in some of its articles over the years. as i said, i have no foundation for that assessment. just a guess.

it's important to note that there ARE men who have been or are in relationships with real grasping, controlling, manipulative women. maybe they love them and maybe they don't. if they're going to try to make the relationship work (for whatever reason) then i think it's good to have a resource that'll help them deal with what they have.

 

[Guest]

 

[Norajane]

i think, like all such things, you have to temper it with your own knowledge and experience.

i've never been to the site, nor have i investigated it for what i'm about to suggest... but i'm inclined to think it's pretty much the polar opposite of what cosmo has recommended/suggested in some of its articles over the years. as i said, i have no foundation for that assessment. just a guess.

it's important to note that there ARE men who have been or are in relationships with real grasping, controlling, manipulative women. maybe they love them and maybe they don't. if they're going to try to make the relationship work (for whatever reason) then i think it's good to have a resource that'll help them deal with what they have.

I haven't read Cosmo in years, but I think you're right - How to tell if your man is cheating, how to get him to commit, 8 ways find out if he really loves you...

It's a shame that there's so much advice out there that puts the sexes in adversarial positions rather than in 'understanding' each other roles.

 

[Norajane]

BTW, I couldn't resist checking out the "Top 10 Signs You're whipped".

I qualified for 3 of the 10 signs, although one of them is a given since I'm married. (I'm pretty sure my wife would not like it if I walking into a bar with several women hanging onto me....like if I could actually find several women willing to do that. )

Plus, that article had 2 references to "the wife".

Care to share the other 2 signs...?

 

[EJFan]

It's a shame that there's so much advice out there that puts the sexes in adversarial positions rather than in 'understanding' each other roles.

i think if you take "men's health" and "cosmopolitan" and blended them together you'd have a publication that did just that.

 

[Guest]

 

[Norajane]

sure.

1. I don't go out with the guys. I do go to a few ball games with a friend or two each year, but most of the time if I go out, it's either with my wife, my kids, or both.

2. I do my share of the dishes and cooking, cleaning, animal care, and other domestic stuff. I'm actually proud of this.

There was one more that had something about a curfew....I felt it did not apply....if I do go out with a friend (like to a Red Sox game) I make it clear that I will be late with an ETA. It's about setting the right expectation and then adhering to my part of the responsibility, otherwise a call is in order.

Curfew? LOL!

I think expectations is a big area where people have relationship issues. Either their expectations aren't being met, or they feel they can never live up to the other's expectations, or there's no agreement or discussion on what they are.

Then the problems surface and become big when they don't have to be - a phone call to say you'll be late can be enough, but without understanding that beforehand, it can turn into "he doesn't care about me" and "she's never satisfied" or "she wants to control me".

 

[Eilan]

I was reading something recently (unfortunately, I can't recall what it was now) about how male-female interactions are often described in military language, hence "The Battle of the Sexes." It's often used as an attention-getting tactic.

It's too bad that sites like this (and their female counterparts) resort to generalizations/polarizations about the opposite sex in order to gain readership/sell magazines. Apparently it's not interesting enough to find/discuss common ground.

 

[Guest]

 

[Norajane]

I was reading something recently (unfortunately, I can't recall what it was now) about how male-female interactions are often described in military language, hence "The Battle of the Sexes." It's often used as an attention-getting tactic.

It's too bad that sites like this (and their female counterparts) resort to generalizations/polarizations about the opposite sex in order to gain readership/sell magazines. Apparently it's not interesting enough to find/discuss common ground.

We're all about fighting wars these days - war on drugs, war on terror - I'm tired just thinking about it - who has the energy to fight the battle of the sexes!?

Even sports metaphors are so warlike.

The thing is, even that can work IF you see you and your partner as fighting the battle together, or playing on the same team - it's you and me, baby, us against the world...

 

[Norajane]

I agree with you.

Even though I'm 1:15 drive from Fenway park, I might not get home until 2am from a 7pm game (that might also happen if my kids are with me too because we've been known to hang out at the players' entrance for hours to get autographs). Since I do this a couple times each year with a friend, it's not a big deal. Though I suspect it would be a big deal if I did this on a weekly basis. So I guess moderation is important too.

I usually will tell my wife something like...."I'll be home between 1 and 2am". If the game runs into extra innings, I usually call right after the game and let her know I'll be a little later.

I'm kind of a baseball freak. One time my son and I went to opening day (he's a baseball freak too)....a 1pm start. we left the house at 8:30 am and got home at 1am.

But my son got Curt Schilling, Ellis Burks, and Mark Bellhorn's autographs, so it was worth it.

I remember many an "afternoon Cubs game" that meant leaving work at 11 and not getting home til long past midnight...good times.

 

[Guest]

 

[EJFan]

It's too bad that sites like this (and their female counterparts) resort to generalizations/polarizations about the opposite sex in order to gain readership/sell magazines. Apparently it's not interesting enough to find/discuss common ground.

i think that's mostly because we're supposed to get that information in our upbringing and through trial and error. it's the stuff in the margin that make these magazines and initiatives successful/interesting.

a bit unfortunate but i don't suppose advertisers would pay for space in a magazine that attended to the mundane. besides... where would we HT-ers be if sound advice existed somewhere else?

 

[Guest]

 

[EJFan]

good point. it's not content that drives sales. it's sales that drives content.

i thought it was sails that drove boats.

 

[Guest]

 

[Eilan]

Are Women Feminizing Men?

I hope you won't hold it against me , but my hubby is a huge Rush Limbaugh fan, which means that I've spent more time than I'd prefer listening to his program. The things one does for love!

One afternoon, the "feminization of men" was the topic of the hour. I don't even remember the specifics now, but I was loudly disagreeing with Rush--and then this woman called in. She was bitching about how upset she was that her sons allowed their wives to be entirely too bossy and in control.

At that point, I pretty much lost it and started screaming at the radio.

My hubby said, "Will you get a grip?!"

I said, "Just listen to her!" Then I left the room because I knew I was taking things entirely too seriously.

A few minutes later, my hubby turned off the radio and said, "You were right. That woman was a nut job."

 

[EJFan]

all i can say is this:

i listed to rush limbaugh once... he said something to the effect that the reason there was so much child abuse in the US was because abortion is too accessible.

i guess there's a point in there somewhere but i don't speak republican and therefore can't figure out what it is.

 

[Eilan]

i listed to rush limbaugh once... he said something to the effect that the reason there was so much child abuse in the US was because abortion is too accessible.

Huh?

Shall I ask my hubby to translate?

 

[EJFan]

Huh?

Shall I ask my hubby to translate?

be my guest... when you figure out the logic be sure to let us know.

i know it sounds like an incredibly odd statement but i vividly remember it and that became the first and last 2 minutes of rush i ever listened to.

 

[Eilan]

be my guest... when you figure out the logic be sure to let us know.

i know it sounds like an incredibly odd statement but i vividly remember it and that became the first and last 2 minutes of rush i ever listened to.

My hubby's first thought was that it made no sense--until I told him who made the comment. Now he's trying to be loyal and say that it probably depends on context.

However, he and I can be listening at the same time and hear completely different things.