hopefully this willl work

[Mystical Avalon]

the idea of dark mystical sex and initiation rituals involving memebers of the Wiccan as well as Lycan and vampire communities on dark nights where the prey is human and the predators are not. Sexual conquest of the most horrifica and erotic kind.

 

[3113]

the idea of dark mystical sex and initiation rituals involving memebers of the Wiccan as well as Lycan and vampire communities on dark nights where the prey is human and the predators are not. Sexual conquest of the most horrifica and erotic kind.

Um. Not to be a killjoy, but I for one would take serious exception, and find it really insulting to see Wiccans involved with this. Wicca is a real religion and it doesn't avocate harming anyone or doing anything "horrific" to anyone during rituals and initiations. Quite the opposite.

I hope that there aren't other erotic stories that you've read on this site that have given you the idea that Wiccans would do any such thing? Because from my p.o.v. ou might as well have said "Dark mystical sex and initiation rituals involving members of the Jewish as well as Lycan and vampire communities...." That's how off-the-mark and disturbing it sounds.

I think a horror-sex initiation ritual can make for a very sexy, erotic tale. But you're going to have such a story, don't involve any real religion--like Catholics, Jews or Wiccans. If you do, then you're perpetuating some truely evil rumors and slander about those practicing said religion. And that's neither nice nor sexy.

 

[Sean Renaud]

All the rumors about the Catholics are true, if you believe the news anyway. I agree with you that it would be insulting to the Wiccans if this literature was meant to be taken seriously. But thanks in part to modern media, The Craft, Charmed, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And the early and still occasional ignorant maneuver of Wiccans publicly claiming that they are witches but neither good nor bad. I have limited knowledge on the religion. What I do know is that it is associated with witchcraft just like any other pagan religion. I'm personally an aetheist. But calling yourself a witch is begging for trouble and misinterpretation. Its like if the Boyscouts were to start calling themselves a gang. By definition they are a gang. But gang means Crips and Bloods and drive byes. Hell we even usually call the Mafia the Mafia or the Mob rather than a gang because their behavior is enough different that they don't fit under the public perception of this word.

The short is that people who don't know anything about the Wiccans won't be offended and people who do should just kind of ignore this as the writing of somebody who's entire knowledge of a religion is based off of the media.

 

[bisexplicit]

So, I think the story is quite feasible with a simple name change - make up your own religion that is loosely based on whatever you want.

Or, you could give a small warning at the beginning of the story that real life wiccans do not actually commit said acts that you will have them be doing in the story.


By the way, are you wanting someone to take on writing this story, or are you looking to develop the idea yourself?

 

[3113]

All the rumors about the Catholics are true, if you believe the news anyway. I agree with you that it would be insulting to the Wiccans if this literature was meant to be taken seriously. But thanks in part to modern media, The Craft, Charmed, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I take it as a step forward in a long, slow education process that some of these shows are trying to protray "Witches" as positive rather than involved in "horrific" sex rituals. It's still false advertising, but until Wicca ranks with Jews and Catholics in power, the religion won't be able to influence the media much farther than urging it to be kind to "witches" rather than slanderous.

In any case, I know that I can't, personally and by myself, sway the writers of Charmed into being more accurate if their portrayal of "witches" is going to be a "wiccan" portrayal. Here on Lit, however, where I can actually talk to the writer, I might be able to personally sway them.

calling yourself a witch is begging for trouble and misinterpretation.

Not if the word can be reclaimed. "Witch" didn't start off as negative--and if enough people portray it as postive (as in Charmed and Buffy and Glenda the Good), then you might find that it's suddenly no longer pejorative.

Words are funny like that. They can change. And people's use of them can change them. And your analogy blames the victim. "Witch" is an old word for a person who practices a certain pagan religion. You might as well say that Jews are asking for trouble by calling themselves Jews because there's pajoritive meanings attatched to the word, like "He jewed him out of his money."

Why should a Jewish person surrender the name just because bigioted people have deliberately turned the word into something bad?

The short is that people who don't know anything about the Wiccans won't be offended and people who do should just kind of ignore this as the writing of somebody who's entire knowledge of a religion is based off of the media.

The short is that people who don't know anything about Wiccans will read this and believe (or have their belief confirmed) that Wiccans engage in "horrific" sex iniations. And people who do know should never ignore educating people. Unless you don't mind if people go back to burning witches because they want to protect their kids from those horrific sex iniations? Maybe, while we're at it, we should allow stories on Lit about Jews killing Christian boys for their blood. That was a very popular misconception...and what harm can it do? Those who don't know won't be offended and those who do know it's all lies, well, they can just ignore this as the writing of somebody who's entire knowledge of a religion is based off old stories.

Hey, while we're at it, I've been re-watching Gone with the Wind, and Birth of a Nation. I think I'll write a story about how lazy blacks are, how they all want to rape white women...and I think I'll cast the KKK as the brave heroes. I mean, those wh don't know any black people won't be offended, and those who do know black folks, or are black, well, they can just ignore this as the writing of somebody who's entire knowledge of black folk is based on old movies.

Think that's a good idea? I mean, what harm can it do to write such stories? It's not like anyone's going to believe them or, if they do, do any kind of horrible thing like lynch them or put them in concentration camps or burn them or deny them their rights...right?

 

[Sean Renaud]

C'mon. Really. Are you going to tell me there aren't a lot of stories on Lit right now about how blacks only want to rape white women and take advantage of them and insult the size of their husband's penises? I think that is a negative way to protray my race. But I'm not offended, its just kinda funny.

I don't think the word Witch is reclaimable any more than the word Gang is reclaimable. Just like I don't think another religion will every come close to competeting with the big three Islam/Chrisianity/Jewish in the forseeable future. And Glenda the good was counteracted by the Wicked Witch so bad example. I won't go into Buffy trivia cus its stupid and pointless.

I don't believe that media controls how people think though. I think media reflects how society views something. Yes it does reinforce things. But Wiccans have a long way to go before they will be respected for anything. You do however make an excellent point about how you have a direct link to this author and it is something you can do. Because you can't really go and change how Lord of the Rings is written/directed.

I figure as long as you wouldn't read the story and give it a 1 and then blast him on the public comments for his misrepresentation of witches then I have no problem. As I'm sure you know there are a band of people, particularly the anti-cuckold/ extra-marital even willing and honestly sex that seem to read stories for the sole purpose of saying how evil it is and this shouldn't be written blady blady blah. I mean I would never write a cheating sotry for a contest cus you're begging to lose. Might as well stick to tried and true incest. Cus the scores are high and people who don't like that genre seem to politely avoid it. Either that or nobody doesn' tlike it. . .

 

[3113]

C'mon. Really. Are you going to tell me there aren't a lot of stories on Lit right now about how blacks only want to rape white women and take advantage of them and insult the size of their husband's penises?

Of course there are. Are you going to tell me that two wrongs make a right? There are all kinds of objectionable stories on Lit. And if Mystical wants to write another objectionable story, Mystical can. Lit will allow it and it will go up.

But there are so many other names Mystical could give the magic users other than one which SPECIFIES a PARTICULAR and very real religion practiced by real people. She could call them Sorcerers, enchanters, magicians, necromancers, magus...etc., etc., etc.

Frankly, I'm a bit tired of how people post ideas here and all anyone seems to say is: "Wow, sounds hot. Go for it." Sorry. No. I'm not going to urge Mystic to just "go for it" because I think this idea, as so many others, could do better. It doesn't HAVE to to perpetuate a negative stereotype in order to have its fun. Enough Wiccans lose their kids in court thanks to such negative stereotypes. They don't need one more. Especially not to satisfy a stroke story.

 

[BedtimeStories77]

Um. Not to be a killjoy, but I for one would take serious exception, and find it really insulting to see Wiccans involved with this. Wicca is a real religion and it doesn't avocate harming anyone or doing anything "horrific" to anyone during rituals and initiations. Quite the opposite.

Love you, 3113.

 

[3113]

Love you, 3113.

Thank you, Eve.

 

[Purple Sage]

Um. Not to be a killjoy, but I for one would take serious exception, and find it really insulting to see Wiccans involved with this. Wicca is a real religion and it doesn't avocate harming anyone or doing anything "horrific" to anyone during rituals and initiations. Quite the opposite.

Eh. "Real religion"? So what? Satanism is a real religion, too. One thing that distinguishes wiccans from most religions, however, is a lack of unified organization or doctrine. Beyond the wiccan rede, which is a pretty pleasant and harmless notion, it's hard to find much that any three wiccans will subscribe to. I know wiccans that are big on sex magic, and The Great Rite is a well established element of witchcraft and paganism. I know wiccans that devoutly believe in the physical reality of fairies. Why a person, wiccan or no, should be offended by the idea of wiccans having sex, with or without the help of 'mythical beings', is beyond me.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Because even if Wiccans do have sex rituals. I don't know much about the religion. I once heard about the rede and its pretty much a thou shall not hurt stuff if I recall. But its not a sacrifical or horrific.

And Satanism is not a real religion. Luciferian do not consider themselves Satanic and there is no evidence that there is or ever was an actual Church of Satan as described by the media.

 

[BedtimeStories77]

Thank you, Eve.

Anytime.

 

[BedtimeStories77]

And Satanism is not a real religion. Luciferian do not consider themselves Satanic and there is no evidence that there is or ever was an actual Church of Satan as described by the media.

So, LaVey's books are shit? His home in California (a home he purchased from his parents) never existed? And LaVey wasn't the founder of modern Satanists?

 

[Sean Renaud]

LaVey is an idiot. But I suppose him being an idiot doesn't actually mean he doesn't exist. It just means he shouldn't.

 

[BedtimeStories77]

lol

To each their own.

 

[pellso27]

Avolon

Just curious but feeling I know! Glad to see you around!

 

[Mystical Avalon]

Blown The Hell Out Of Proportion

In response to 3113 and Hallowed Eves repsonses on the fledgling thread:

To each of you with his or her own opinion, thank you. This was not an idea to offend and to those of you with so much wisdom thank you but its only fiction. If I were indeed intending to write a non fictional account of the Wiccan religion by no means would I involve violence nor blasphemy of the practices in which we partake. I am not an idiot nor am I blind to the community views of the religion itself. As a practicing member myself, the satirrical portrayal I was establishing was intended as a good natured sexual poke at the three things no one really knows that much about. Also, in turn to those of you whom have commented on my thread, I am in the early stages of developments on the story. if you do not intend to say something positive about the idea then please do not respond. For those who wish to in the future partake in this, please respond naturally. Again, I am not without understanding and knowledge of the Wiccan religion. This is one Mystic whom has a sense of what it really means to be and to honor the goddess that which she serves

 

[3113]

but its only fiction.

Some would say that the bible is "only fiction." Yet we can see what power such stories have historically had--wars have been fought over the interpetation of those stories. Fiction has an amazing amount of power. Abe Lincoln said of Uncle Tom's Cabin that it was partially responsible for the Civil War. I can't say if that's accurate, but there's no doubt that the story, fictional though it was, had an influence.

Never underestimate the power of fiction. It can start religons, wars, movements. It can change lives.

You didn't state that your story was going to be satirical. You merely mentioned that the sexual rite would be "horrific." If you meant it as a humorous laugh involving inside jokes that Wiccans would surely get, then that's fine. But the way you presented the idea did not make it seem so.

So I hope you can see where that led to a misunderstanding of your intentions. There was certainly no way for any of us to know how well you knew the religion, why you chose to use it in the story, or what you wanted (only positive feedback) when you posted the idea.

 

[3113]

I know wiccans that are big on sex magic, and The Great Rite is a well established element of witchcraft and paganism. I know wiccans that devoutly believe in the physical reality of fairies. Why a person, wiccan or no, should be offended by the idea of wiccans having sex, with or without the help of 'mythical beings', is beyond me.

The offence had nothing to do with Wiccans having sex. There are plenty of covens that use sex rituals and many that are pretty kinky about it. The original post, however, said sexual conquest of the most horrific kind.

If the post had read, "A humorous tale of sexual conquest among witches, vampires and werewolves," I wouldn't have given it a second glance. "Horrific" implies a horror story with the protagonists doing evil things. That's what troubled me.

 

[Texguy84]

Just a random thought on this "Wiccan Sex Ritual" thing...

How many Catholics here get really offended by stories involving sex-crazed Catholic school girls?




...




...



...


Anyone? Heloooo? Is this thing on?

 

[BedtimeStories77]

If you meant it as a humorous laugh involving inside jokes that Wiccans would surely get, then that's fine.

I must be a bad Pagan. It wasn't an obvious "joke" to me.

 

[BedtimeStories77]

Just a random thought on this "Wiccan Sex Ritual" thing...

How many Catholics here get really offended by stories involving sex-crazed Catholic school girls?




...




...



...


Anyone? Heloooo? Is this thing on?

lol Tex. You silly boy you.

 

[Sean Renaud]

honestly that's an unfair comparison. I know from personal experience that Private Catholic schools don't require you to be Catholic to attend. You just have to sit through religious classes. At least a few in Southern California aren't even primarily Catholic.

Besides the Catholic School girl fantasy is about the school girl. Just like the Japaness School girl thing is about her being a school girl. Being Japanesse doesn't hurt anything of course but I don't fel that is the primary focus.

As for the Bible being fiction the people who wrote it don't believe it to be fiction nor do the people who are Christian/Catholic/Jewish so on and so forth. Uncle Tom may have helped support for the war but I have a hard time swallowing that it started the war or even played a major part in it.

Call me when Jurrasic Park or Star Wars starts a war. Which considering this story will involve Vampires and Werewolves those examples are not that far fetched.

 

[Purple Sage]

The offence had nothing to do with Wiccans having sex. There are plenty of covens that use sex rituals and many that are pretty kinky about it. The original post, however, said sexual conquest of the most horrific kind.

If the post had read, "A humorous tale of sexual conquest among witches, vampires and werewolves," I wouldn't have given it a second glance. "Horrific" implies a horror story with the protagonists doing evil things. That's what troubled me.

Even so, I know wiccans who are pretty intensely into the whole BDSM thing- which many would consider 'horrific'. What horrifies one person fails to move another, so I just let the word go- after all, sex in church would have fried my grandmother's prudish little brain, and it's not even an interesting idea to me. De Sade has someone penetrated by a crucifix and communion wafer- the intent is obviously to horrify, and certainly has that effect on some people, but it just seems messy to me.

 

[3113]

Call me when Jurrasic Park or Star Wars starts a war.

How about Star Trek fans and what they've got going? Just because people know it's fiction, even out-there fiction, doesn't mean they don't invest the fiction with reality, emotion, time and belief. I know guys who saw Star Wars when they were kids and the character that influenced them from that movie (Luke in one case, Darth Vader in another), still causes them to act in certain ways. I know people who use comic book characters as their role models. It's not "what would Jesus" do it's "What would Batman do?"

And yeah, they KNOW these character's aren't real. They still base their lives, moral, ethics and behavior toward others on them.

And those are the people who know it's all fantasy. There are people who believe vampires exist because they read Anne Rice. Who believe we never went to the moon because a fiction book said so. Who believe in devils, miracles, magic, curses, charms, hexes, angels, demons, undead, fairies, elves. All because their favorite fiction books has such things in them.

Do not EVER underestimate the power of fiction or the gullability of human beings to want to believe what is untrue and fantastic rather than what is real. Voodoo, the religion, has been plagued for years by the curse of people's belief in aburd fictions. Every movie about Voodoo shows black folk creating Zombies. And while the viewers might not believe in Zombies, their impression of Voodoo is always the same: "Voodoo is an evil, black religion that tries to raise the dead."

If an author is going to be bold, be bold. If you want to shake thing ups, shake them up. If you want to offend, go for a really big and important offence--because as a writer, even a writer of the most absurd and fantastic story--you have an enormous amount of power. To write a "Voodoo" story about sex with Zombies, for example, does nothing but maintain a stereotype. And wasting the power of fiction to do that is what really offends me.