Honesty....

[ChocolateHarlot]

I dont really get here much these days but I was wondering something after chatting with a very close Lit friend about this the other night...

I have seen various threads started throughout the different boards on Lit asking for peoples honest opinions on all kinds of things, be it situations, or pic threads.

I'm aware that some people use these questions to blatantly slag people off but sometimes people give their honest opinions, even if its not what the poster wants to hear. They then end up being flamed for it.

So I guess im wondering if people are willing to really accept constructive criticism or if they post these threads for a confidence boost, as most of the replies are generally complimentary.

What do you class as polite criticism? Where do you draw the line?

I'm genuinely interested in peoples opinions on this.

Choc

 

[monique1971]

Interesting post!

Constructive criticism might be something like:

"Try experimenting with a few new angles beyond the basic cock shot."
"That shot looked good, but it could have been better with more contrast in the black and white."
"The clutter on the desk behind you was a little distracting."
"The red bra is pretty but I think another color might be more flattering."


Non-constructive criticism:

"You're fat."
"You're too old."
"You have a really ugly scar on your thigh, why do you show it?"
"There are so many hot chicks here, why do you waste your time?"
"Your cock is kinda weird looking."

I'm completely open to comments on my photography. I'm less open to comments about my personal appearance. I know I could stand to lose 35 pounds -- it's not news to me. I know I'm not young anymore. I don't need strangers on the internet to point out this fact. I suppose that someone reading this might say, "Well, if you KNOW you're fat and old, why do you inflict your pictures on people?" Um, but they don't have to look if they don't want to, right? It's not like I'm forcing anyone to look at me.

Is this thread obliquely referring to the "Hottest Girl" thread? I guess i don't really see that thread as "constructive criticism." I know that I don't look as good as Manda_K or Lorali. Pointing out that they are hotter than I am doesn't "construct" anything for me. True, I shouldn't let it bother me, and 99% of the time it doesn't! I'm only human, though, and of course no one likes to be told they are unattractive. True, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Folks are entitled to the opinion that Lorali is the hottest girl on Lit, and I'm entitled to my opinion that ranking people is BS. It's a draw, and eventually it becomes a sort of pointless debate and certainly not one getting all worked up about either way.

I'll admit that I began my thread for the ego boost, but nowadays I find that I enjoy the process of taking pictures. It's become a creative outlet for me. I'd love to learn more about photography but being told that I'm fat, plain, or too old wouldn't really help me do that, you know?

I've never, ever flamed anyone on my thread for constructive criticism. I will admit that I wasn't too nice to the person who offered a two-word comment: "you ugly." Do you think I should have engaged this person in a discussion about what makes me ugly and what I should do about it? I don't know, maybe, but I think life is too short.

Why do you post pictures, Chocolate Harlot? I'm not being argumentive; I'd like to know.

 

[Baucis]

I'm aware that some people use these questions to blatantly slag people off but sometimes people give their honest opinions, even if its not what the poster wants to hear. They then end up being flamed for it.

So I guess im wondering if people are willing to really accept constructive criticism or if they post these threads for a confidence boost, as most of the replies are generally complimentary.

What do you class as polite criticism? Where do you draw the line?

I'm genuinely interested in peoples opinions on this.

Choc

I'm an artist; constructive criticism, or a critique, is part of the work, however, the two terms have slightly differing meanings.

Constructive criticism is just that: Both strong and weak areas are pointed out, and suggestions are made for strengthening any weak areas, as the work is usually unfinished. Critique, on the otherhand, contains an element of constructive criticism, but also discusses the impact of the work as a whole upon the viewer, with a flavor of the work being complete.

It is often VERY difficult for someone to accept criticism of their work- be it literary or pics or paintings. A good critique or constructive criticism session should mention BOTH strengths and weaknesses or areas of improvement; if it doesn't, if it is all negative or all positive, it is not constructive criticism- it is deriding, or sychophantic.

A good critique starts with a generic positive: "Great lighting in this", and then moves into areas for improvement: "I think it could be even stronger if you'd used a bounce to throw some light back onto the model's left side", moves into discussion of the work's overall impact: "This sort of reminds me of a Vargas pin-up- cheesecake more than sensuous", and ends on an encouraging note: "I look forward to seeing more of your work."

On most Art sites, when work is displayed, members are encouraged to either ask for critique, or for comments. That way, atta-boys/girls can be given if that's all the poster wishes, and members who truly wish to improve their skills can receive the suggestions they need, too.

 

[ChocolateHarlot]

Interesting post!

Constructive criticism might be something like:

"Try experimenting with a few new angles beyond the basic cock shot."
"That shot looked good, but it could have been better with more contrast in the black and white."
"The clutter on the desk behind you was a little distracting."
"The red bra is pretty but I think another color might be more flattering."


Non-constructive criticism:

"You're fat."
"You're too old."
"You have a really ugly scar on your thigh, why do you show it?"
"There are so many hot chicks here, why do you waste your time?"
"Your cock is kinda weird looking."

I'm completely open to comments on my photography. I'm less open to comments about my personal appearance. I know I could stand to lose 35 pounds -- it's not news to me. I know I'm not young anymore. I don't need strangers on the internet to point out this fact. I suppose that someone reading this might say, "Well, if you KNOW you're fat and old, why do you inflict your pictures on people?" Um, but they don't have to look if they don't want to, right? It's not like I'm forcing anyone to look at me.

Is this thread obliquely referring to the "Hottest Girl" thread? I guess i don't really see that thread as "constructive criticism." I know that I don't look as good as Manda_K or Lorali. Pointing out that they are hotter than I am doesn't "construct" anything for me. True, I shouldn't let it bother me, and 99% of the time it doesn't! I'm only human, though, and of course no one likes to be told they are unattractive. True, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Folks are entitled to the opinion that Lorali is the hottest girl on Lit, and I'm entitled to my opinion that ranking people is BS. It's a draw, and eventually it becomes a sort of pointless debate and certainly not one getting all worked up about either way.

I'll admit that I began my thread for the ego boost, but nowadays I find that I enjoy the process of taking pictures. It's become a creative outlet for me. I'd love to learn more about photography but being told that I'm fat, plain, or too old wouldn't really help me do that, you know?

I've never, ever flamed anyone on my thread for constructive criticism. I will admit that I wasn't too nice to the person who offered a two-word comment: "you ugly." Do you think I should have engaged this person in a discussion about what makes me ugly and what I should do about it? I don't know, maybe, but I think life is too short.

Why do you post pictures, Chocolate Harlot? I'm not being argumentive; I'd like to know.

Hi. I actually wrote all this before I looked at the other thread, it was a conversation I was having a couple of days ago with a good friend who used to post here that inspired the question. We thought it would be interesting to hear other peoples opinions.

I totally agree with you about what you would class as constructive. And I too have always been open to hearing peoples thoughts. But, yes there are the people that post only with the intention of hurting peoples feelings. Thankfully, they are few and far between.

I guess what I really dont understand, is when someone posts a picture asking for feedback, why they get mad and upset when the feedback isnt what they want to hear. Whats the point in that??? Obviously, if its a comment thats deliberately hurtful (ie/you're fat/ugly etc) Then yes... I get it, I think anyone would get mad at that!!

I started posting pics originally for fun. I enjoyed having them taken and editing them and sure, it gave me a huge confidence boost, I also got to meet some really fantastic people. many of them, I'm still in touch with - in R/L as well as on the internet. I dont post pics as much these days though because I simply dont get the same enjoyment out of it anymore.

I dont think size is important either. As long as people enjoy what they do, it shouldnt matter.

I'm rambling today... I'm far too tired to try and make more sense LOL I should come back to this after I have slept!!

 

[ChocolateHarlot]

I'm an artist; constructive criticism, or a critique, is part of the work, however, the two terms have slightly differing meanings.

Constructive criticism is just that: Both strong and weak areas are pointed out, and suggestions are made for strengthening any weak areas, as the work is usually unfinished. Critique, on the otherhand, contains an element of constructive criticism, but also discusses the impact of the work as a whole upon the viewer, with a flavor of the work being complete.

It is often VERY difficult for someone to accept criticism of their work- be it literary or pics or paintings. A good critique or constructive criticism session should mention BOTH strengths and weaknesses or areas of improvement; if it doesn't, if it is all negative or all positive, it is not constructive criticism- it is deriding, or sychophantic.

A good critique starts with a generic positive: "Great lighting in this", and then moves into areas for improvement: "I think it could be even stronger if you'd used a bounce to throw some light back onto the model's left side", moves into discussion of the work's overall impact: "This sort of reminds me of a Vargas pin-up- cheesecake more than sensuous", and ends on an encouraging note: "I look forward to seeing more of your work."

On most Art sites, when work is displayed, members are encouraged to either ask for critique, or for comments. That way, atta-boys/girls can be given if that's all the poster wishes, and members who truly wish to improve their skills can receive the suggestions they need, too.

Hi there.

Again, I agree. Thats the kind of feedback I have had in the past and its not remotely hard to accept. Thanks for your reply

 

[red_flame]

i,like most people here, feel genuinly flatterd by all the great comments that i get in thread and luckily ive only had one comment that made me wince a little,even then i dont think it was meant to be nasty

i have,how ever recieved alot of genuinly helpful critique telling me to use more natural lighting what angles to try which of my pictures have worked and which havent.

i myself have encouraged others to try more adventurous thought out pics and most have thanked me after

i think if we wish to show our work/bodies in such a public way then we should accept peoples comments good or bad ( i dont mean the ones from the trolls with nothing better to do )

 

[pookies]

 

[Baucis]

I used to post pics on other sites back when I was younger, firmer and a bit slimmer, and what I discovered is this: Most women post pics because they want positive ego-strokes, and posting naked pics is an easy way to get them.

Understand, I'm not saying posting pics is bad or a sign of poor self-esteem; wanting positive ego-strokes is much more healthy than the opposite, certainly! But few women who post are considering a jump to professional photography or modeling; they may wish to improve their skills at both, but only to garner more positive ego-strokes.

Then we have the viewers of these pics. They are not Fine Art Photography critics or judges; they are, by and large, guys and gals looking for some titillation. This, too, is all well and good, natural and fun- might even be good, clean fun if stuff at least gets wiped up afterwards. And one thing I learned about the guys and gals who are looking for titillation is, it's like that old saying about a blow-job: Even the worst one is pretty good. Some viewers may know their stuff, and some may not, but all in all, they're here for the social and cyber-sexual intercourse.

The fact the pic is of a naked woman is usually enough to gain a positive remark. If said naked woman is not of freak-show appearance, that's another point in her favor. If said woman manages to pull off what is considered a "sexy" pose with comfortable ease, all the better. So it doesn't take much for a woman to get those positive ego-strokes she wants.

Conversely, there's always, on such a public board, going to be some sour unhappy crumudgeons who get their rocks off being insulting and starting crap. Best option there is ignore.

If someone wants serious critique on Fine Art Nude photography, they're in the wrong forum. If they want positive ego-strokes and some tips to get even more, they're right where they need to be.

 

[mrs.jeepman6]

I dont really get here much these days but I was wondering something after chatting with a very close Lit friend about this the other night...

I have seen various threads started throughout the different boards on Lit asking for peoples honest opinions on all kinds of things, be it situations, or pic threads.

I'm aware that some people use these questions to blatantly slag people off but sometimes people give their honest opinions, even if its not what the poster wants to hear. They then end up being flamed for it.

So I guess im wondering if people are willing to really accept constructive criticism or if they post these threads for a confidence boost, as most of the replies are generally complimentary.

What do you class as polite criticism? Where do you draw the line?

I'm genuinely interested in peoples opinions on this.

Choc

First off great topic and question. As you can probably tell from posts I have left to you I don't really have any problems saying anything that may be on my mind. I figure these type of sites are public and people are looking for other peoples opinions so if I feel the urge to say something on a topic I'll say it and if somebody is offended by what I say then I figure they shouldn't be on a public site but a private chat room. I realize my opinion is mine but if somebody is looking for opinions they have to take the bad with the good and sort it out for themselves. Thats my 2 cents on the subject. Take it or leave it but don't give me any crap about it

 

[Vandren]

I'm an artist; constructive criticism, or a critique, is part of the work, however, the two terms have slightly differing meanings.

Constructive criticism is just that: Both strong and weak areas are pointed out, and suggestions are made for strengthening any weak areas, as the work is usually unfinished. Critique, on the otherhand, contains an element of constructive criticism, but also discusses the impact of the work as a whole upon the viewer, with a flavor of the work being complete.

It is often VERY difficult for someone to accept criticism of their work- be it literary or pics or paintings. A good critique or constructive criticism session should mention BOTH strengths and weaknesses or areas of improvement; if it doesn't, if it is all negative or all positive, it is not constructive criticism- it is deriding, or sychophantic.

A good critique starts with a generic positive: "Great lighting in this", and then moves into areas for improvement: "I think it could be even stronger if you'd used a bounce to throw some light back onto the model's left side", moves into discussion of the work's overall impact: "This sort of reminds me of a Vargas pin-up- cheesecake more than sensuous", and ends on an encouraging note: "I look forward to seeing more of your work."

Speaking as a professional writer (mostly non-fiction these days), and part-time writing instructor, exactly!

Sadly, too many people these days seem to think that saying "I'm just being honest" means they can ignore simple things like common courtesy. Included in this is the old childhood "rule" - "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Applied to these threads, if the poster can't at least say one positive thing about the pics/posts/stories/poems, even if the othe r90% of the post is negative or an attempt to help, there's no point in saying anything.

On the other hand, there's not much point in simply being a "yes man" - those of us in the U.S. have had six years of seeing the negative effects of surrounding oneself with those sorts.

 

[red_flame]

Speaking as a professional writer (mostly non-fiction these days), and part-time writing instructor, exactly!

Sadly, too many people these days seem to think that saying "I'm just being honest" means they can ignore simple things like common courtesy. Included in this is the old childhood "rule" - "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Applied to these threads, if the poster can't at least say one positive thing about the pics/posts/stories/poems, even if the othe r90% of the post is negative or an attempt to help, there's no point in saying anything.

On the other hand, there's not much point in simply being a "yes man" - those of us in the U.S. have had six years of seeing the negative effects of surrounding oneself with those sorts.

i couldnt agree more,honesty can be given without being insulting

the only word i can think of to sum it up is TACT
i have at times opened a link and thought "oh dear" as im sure some have when viewing me but i simply close the link and move on
but if some one genuinly aks other views to pass judgment by poll or other means then we have to accept the opnions given but we dont have to accept rudeness

 

[pookies]

 

[Baucis]

Like Pratchett says, Vandren, "It seems some folks find it easier to say 'No offense intended' rather than to give no offense." (paraphrased)

Good word-choices, pookies and redflame: Tact and tactless wonders. Perfect.

 

[Vandren]

Like Pratchett says, Vandren, "It seems some folks find it easier to say 'No offense intended' rather than to give no offense." (paraphrased)

Speaking of which, time to read more Pratchett, then write about him.