Honesty and Integrity = Good Sportsmanship

[WildHoney]

Good morning, Everyone!

This might not be my usual type of posting.....but something happened during my son's soccer game last night that disturbed me quite a bit. So much so, that I did file a complaint, which is something I've never done before. Yes, I know you need to show the respect that is due them for taking on such a huge task of trying to coach a bunch of 12 and 13 year old boys, but......I felt strongly enough on this matter that it did warrant some kind of action.

Before we played our game last night we knew we didn't stand a chance of winning this game. I want to make that perfectly clear to all of you so that you understand it's not about winning on my part. It's being fair and playing the game the correct way that concerns me.

It came to our attention during the 3rd quarter that the other team had been playing with an extra boy on the field throughout the entire part of the game that was played already. When the coach of our team presented him with that statement, the other coach didn't deny it at all. His response was that the Ref hadn't noticed it so it was okay. As long as the Ref didn't call it, he kept the boy in. After telling the Ref, he made the boy come out and our team decided to keep on playing, we didn't have the game stopped because of that. It was a play-off game and this team had been undefeated all year long. Now I know why! Apparently, this isn't the first time he's done that this season. When I found that out, I decided to do something about it because he will keep doing it as long as he doesn't get caught. I talked with our coach and we decided that if it was that important for him to win this thing, we wouldn't make any waves and let it go without incidence, otherwise the game would have had to be played over again. The complaint I filed after the game was just to make someone aware of what was happening.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is - what's happened to honesty and integrity? The fact being that the coach of the other team knew he was wrong and shouldn't have been doing this. It kind of disappointed me, but I guess it will be chalked up as a "life lesson" to the boys on our team. That's the approach we used in dealing with this. Regardless of what happened, the boys still had fun and we ended up having pizza after the game to celebrate the end of the season.

Anyway.....hope this didn't bother anyone, I just wanted to share this with you.

Have a great day!

WildHoney

 

[Andra_Jenny]

A thread a while ago talk about such things and my stand is that we are no longer a nation of morals (honesty and integrity) but rather one of laws. Laws are an impermanent, flexible thing that can be used to gain benefit. If you break a moral rule, you answer to God because you are in effect, caught. If you break a law, you must be caught.

From years of sport experience, I will add,

The games would be great if you could get rid of the fucking parents!

 

[WildHoney]

Andra_Jenny,

I guess this got to me because the parents on our team are so nice as are all of the parents in this league. I fully believe it was just the coach doing his own thing. The parents on his team were not aware of what was happening as none of us were really paying close attention. Most of these parents are friends of mine as I've watched their children mature since I've worked with some of them as well as their siblings.

I'm the kind of mom who always has something nice to say about every child on the team as well as the opposing team. After all, I know most of the boys. Even in baseball, the boys all tell their parents they can't call to them when they're playing.....only (me) can cheer for them. That is the highest compliment any one of those boys can give to me. I don't take that lightly.

At soccer practice, I'm the mom who comes all of the time and helps out. I run with the boys and help them with their passing. I enjoy being able to take part in my son's sporting life. There will be one day soon that he won't want me there and that could very well be this next season. This is the first season I'm not coaching a base in baseball, which is kind of nice as now I can sit and watch the game. But, my point is, I believe, for the most part, that parents and coaches are good and honest. Just that this one took it a bit too seriously.

Have a great Wednesday!
WildHoney

 

[Andra_Jenny]

WildHoney,
I have had to physically separate parents at sporting events. When I was 13, I was an umpire and was assaulted by a parent. I have to deal with it every single day, and no parent is a good coach because they will not be objective. No knock on you. Hey, I stay out of my daughters sporting activities other than just to watch and protect her from the other parents. Sorry to be negative, do not take it personally, I can just do without them!

 

[TonyG]

Hmmmm

I have been a coach for the past 12 years I have seen both 'good and bad' coaches. I have also heard many horror stories about coaches and parents getting too out of hand when it comes to the morality of play. No one can determine what makes a coach want to 'cheat' but as you have stated it is a life lesson and those boys will be better for it when the crucial elements of life are facing them down the road. There have been many times when my team members have asked me why they can't do something and the other team can (knowing it is cheating). I tell them simply because it is wrong to knowingly cheat and no victory garnered in that manner will be satisfying to them.

I feel you did the right thing to complain but I also feel that a complaint should be made to the ref association. The ref officiating at your game should have noticed the extra boy much earlier and I question his/her ability to officiate fairly.

Andra_Jenny, you sound bitter toward parents and that is fine but you are wrong about parents being coaches. The best coaches I know in my capacity have all been parents with kids that were taught the game correctly. Don't let a few sour ones spoil the whole pot for you.

 

[WildHoney]

Andra_Jenny,

Please don't worry....I haven't taken anything you've written personally. We are all different in our opinions. That's what makes the "world go 'round". After all, weren't the Boards invented for this exact purpose? I completely understand your reasonings, though.

Tony kind of summed it all up for me. There are so many good people out there, which, yes, includes the parents.

It was nice meeting you. Have a good rest of the day.

WildHoney

 

[unusuallyconfused]

I think in anything and everything there are a few bad eggs that can ruin credibility of the entire group. Some parents re-live their youth through their children, sad but true. I hear some of the same things here from my friends.

 

[Coggie]

WildHoney

Hi There

Firstly, I'm appalled. Nobody is a bigger fan of football (soccer - opps - UK here) than me but it does indeed take all sorts. Although I'm not in this group there are people who are happy to win at all costs.

Please don't let the minority spoil you and your family's enjoyment of the greatest game on earth.

Now, if you have made an official complaint to the organisers they will have no option other than to take action. Depending on their rules that could mean almost anything but if I were you I would prepare myself to be asked to replay, or, take the place of your opposition. If you have no wish to prosper in this way then I would suggest you make this clear before the question is asked.

Even at a fairly junior level organisers and governing bodies consider cheating to be a very serious misdemeanour.

Finally I was interested to see you refer to the third quarter, soccer is in my experience a game of two halves. did you just mean the last quarter of time?

 

[WildHoney]

Coggie,

In our Recreation Soccer League at this age level, 12 and 13 year olds, we play 4 quarters in a game. I'm not sure what the next age level will be, though, as this is all new to me. When we go to watch professional soccer matches like the Cleveland Crunch and such, they do play halves like you mentioned.

At the end of each quarter, which is 15 minutes, the Ref blows the whistle and the boys have a few minutes of rest. During the half, though, the rest is a bit longer and the boys have oranges to give them some potassium and liquid.

To be quite honest with you, Coggie, I don't think I'll want to pursue this because I do believe the point has been made already with this coach. He knows how we feel and, hopefully, he'll adjust his game playing accordingly. I'll let it drop as I don't want to take anything away from his team because they are a wonderfully skilled, hard playing team. They shouldn't suffer because of him.

By the way, nice to meet you and thank you for your response. And, thank you, too, Unusuallyconfused.

WildHoney

 

[unusuallyconfused]

Coggie,


By the way, nice to meet you and thank you for your response. And, thank you, too, Unusuallyconfused.

WildHoney

I do what I can to help the masses

 

[Weird Harold]

To be quite honest with you, Coggie, I don't think I'll want to pursue this because I do believe the point has been made already with this coach. He knows how we feel and, hopefully, he'll adjust his game playing accordingly. I'll let it drop as I don't want to take anything away from his team because they are a wonderfully skilled, hard playing team. They shouldn't suffer because of him.

I think you should press the point, and get the coach banned.

First, the coach made it very apparent that he doesn't consider cheating illegal unless you get caught. He's teaching his players that cheating is OK. You and the other parents who are willing to let this slide are teaching them that even if they get caught, nothing bad will happen.

Second, I think it would be better for his players to have their wins overturned and learn that cheating does have consequences than it will be for them to take their coaches lesson's into later life. They may be "a wonderfully skilled, hard playing team," but they are also learning that cheating wins more games than hard work from this coach.

 

[Morden]

Well I think you were right to complain. There is no reason for someone to go such lengths just to win a simple game. I find sometimes that the cost and lengths people go to for organised sports is quite daunting. On top of that to have such a blatant slap in the face is rediculous.
Though I do not think the team should suffer. Not in a kids league. It could be devastating and cause a very large amount of damage to the players and thier families if this happened. I think they should be disqualified for further games in the play offs but not have thier wins overturned. This is an acceptable compromise due to the nature of the play offs I would think.
Personally WildHoney GOOD for you!!!!!

 

[ChaoticLil]

My oldest was in t-ball for one summer only. What I noticed (here anyway) was that it wasn't really for the children, it was for the parent's to relive their youth. That wasn't what I wanted for my son.

The thing is nowdays is that there is no responsiblility in anything. You do something wrong, instead of admitting and taking your punishment, you look for a way to get out of it (like the coach saying that no one else noticed so he's keeping him in). This is teaching children very bad morals.

My oldest is 22. He's grown up now, and I can just hope that some of the teachings have made an impression on him. My other children are 12 (girl) and 10 (boy). I try to teach them that you treat people like you want to be treated. Cheating and conning are not acceptable; and alot of times it will come back on you.

What this coach is teaching his charges is unacceptable in my opinion and he should be banned from coaching ANY team.

 

[Coggie]

WildHoney

By the way, nice to meet you and thank you for your response.

All clear now, nice to meet you too )

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Tony,

I will try to talk to you one more time if you promise nort to try and track me down!


Parents can be great coaches. I am a great parent and a great coach having trained many National Champions. Having said that, I would never coach my own kid. I think one has to draw the line and be a parent and a teacher and a mentor. My father was my coach at everything and probably the main reason that I have come to this conclusion. With a coach, shit stays on the field. With a parent, it comes home, thus taking a bit of the pure fun of it away. Plus, it is good for them to learn from others in your field that they do not get locked into your methods too early, but can be plastic and coachable for others.

eh?

 

[ericred50]

Having read everybodies comments I blame the referee, isnt it his job to make sure the game is played to the rules. He should have his eyes tested, or he should learn to count.

 

[Bitch_Goddess]

Having read everybodies comments I blame the referee, isnt it his job to make sure the game is played to the rules. He should have his eyes tested, or he should learn to count.

I agree that serious action should be taken aganist the referee who was officiaitng the game. As a youth soccer ref. myself, it is the responsibility of the center ref. and the line judges to count the children on the field occasionally, and especially after substitutions. If there were two line ref. that is 3 people who should be keeping track. These are the kinds of things that give refs a bad name. The referee was seriously "on his knees, blowing the game"

 

[Xantham]

Hi there - just my two cents for the (possibly) poor ref.

I was a youth soccer/football(for the UK fans) ref for many years and while I admit that the ref should have caught what was going there are many limitations. Many youth referees, umpires, linesman, name your own sports official here, are undertrained, overabused, but do it out of love for the game. I cannot express how much I feel that they need far more thanks and recognition than they ever get. However, with that in mind...

First, most recreational leagues use older kids to ref younger kids games. I started refereeing under-10 and under-12 when I was playing at the high school level. Not that teens are bad refs, I myself thought I was a pretty good ref, but parents and coaches used to try to bully me, because they thought at my age, what did I know (besides all the rules!) I didn't take any crap from them, but I knew friends of mine that were not as strong.

Second, linesman are great, but many rec leagues can't afford linesmen for all youth games and when they do, it's often people that are working on being ref's and are less experienced. Although, I would hope in a playoff game that they had a full team of refs on the field, even during playoff games at the really young levels, we often used 2 refs who acted as linesman each for one half of the field(2 of the 4 lines) and shared the general duties.

Lastly, I know I only intentionally counted fielded players on kickoffs because of the fluid nature of the game, it is tough to count them any time else. Especially at young levels where they don't exactly play a great position game. I would guess that the coach would slip the player in from the sidelines during play and not during a stoppage. If there were 12 on the field at a kickoff, then I would blame the ref more.

Well, that turned out longer than I intended, but I just wanted to say a few words on the part of volunteer refs (yes, I was paid $5 a game, but I hardly ref'ed for the money.)

 

[april-wine]

i have to say wildhoney, i agree with weird harold here....all session long these young players have learned that cheating is ok as long as you don't get caught....wonder where our morals have gone in society today, this is a prime example....the undefeated team has been cheating all along, makes you wonder if they would have been undefeated....i think letting it drop is a mistake, yes the players will be disappointed, but they also need to see the consequences of bad sportsmanship, and not playing by the rules....

 

[TonyG]

AJ

Originally posted by Andra_Jenny
I will try to talk to you one more time if you promise nort to try and track me down!

I believe I have lived up to the promise I made you when last we broached this topic. I intend to keep it.

Parents can be great coaches. I am a great parent and a great coach having trained many National Champions. Having said that, I would never coach my own kid. I think one has to draw the line and be a parent and a teacher and a mentor. My father was my coach at everything and probably the main reason that I have come to this conclusion. With a coach, shit stays on the field. With a parent, it comes home, thus taking a bit of the pure fun of it away. Plus, it is good for them to learn from others in your field that they do not get locked into your methods too early, but can be plastic and coachable for others.
eh?

Well, I agree that it is hard to separate the 'coach' parent from the 'dad/mom' parent when they are one and the same to an athlete. Rules have to be established and it can be rewarding if, as they say, business is not brought home.

I also agree that particularly in a parent-coach/child case the child must be exposed to more than one coaching philosophy. The parent must learn to truly relinquish the child in this situation. Even when they do 'turn' their child over to me I have sometimes still had to endure the parent-coach underlying my coaching tactics. Shame, because the child loses in that situation the most.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Xantham - most excellent point.

thank you Tony.