Homophobia

[dirtylover]

The whole SanFran gay marriage thing brought up gayness in general at work today.

My superior is obviously homophobic; previously she has said she found the idea of women kissing disgusting. Today she equated straight, traditional marriage with going to toilet in the bathroom and gay, non-traditional marriage as going to the toilet in the kitchen.

Now, aside from some fairly conservative views, she's a nice person. I personally am not gay, but my mum is, as are several of my friends. I'm finding her comments are niggling away at me, in fact I'm pretty pissed-off about them.

Now, what should I do, if anything?

 

[Guest]

Now, what should I do, if anything?

Kiss a man when she's nearby. Aw, dl, she's obviously not truly your superior.

P.

 

[kellycummings]

The whole SanFran gay marriage thing brought up gayness in general at work today.

My superior is obviously homophobic; previously she has said she found the idea of women kissing disgusting. Today she equated straight, traditional marriage with going to toilet in the bathroom and gay, non-traditional marriage as going to the toilet in the kitchen.

Now, aside from some fairly conservative views, she's a nice person. I personally am not gay, but my mum is, as are several of my friends. I'm finding her comments are niggling away at me, in fact I'm pretty pissed-off about them.

Now, what should I do, if anything?

Ask when she's coming out of the closet because, as we all know, homophobic is just another word for homosexual.
Well, don't really do that, I'm just being a smartass.

 

[gauchecritic]

It's often espoused that all a lesbian needs to "straighten her out" is a good fucking by a stud so;

Get one of your girlfriends to fuck her with a strap on that'll straighten her out.

But seriously. When I'm confronted by sexual inadequacy in the form of homophobia or more recently by a racist spouting his dislike I manage to convey by my facial expression my dislike of the subject, and by not commenting at all if asked directly.

If you're in a discussion then there's nothing to stop you giving vent to your dislike of that persons dislike. Having said that you must also consider and concede their right to free speech. They can say what they like.

Personally I'd go with smug. Then you're one up and the next time you have a personal appraisal session you're in front before you start.

Gauche

 

[Colleen Thomas]

If you know her email I would suggest hopping online when you are home and signing her up for a few lesbian ezines and mailing lists.

It probably won't do anything to sweeten her disposition, but I have found it to be immensly satisfying, especially if you have her work email and it's on the network

-Colly

 

[Edward Teach]

Today she equated straight, traditional marriage with going to toilet in the bathroom and gay, non-traditional marriage as going to the toilet in the kitchen.

Now, what should I do, if anything?

Equating marriage to going to the toilet sounds like she is one really fucked up woman to me, lol.

Seriously, you aren't going to change her mind and she will hold anything you say against you. I think you should very calmly and politely tell her that you disagree and then refrain from arguing with her.

That is what I think you should do. I would probably get into an argument with her, call her a homophobic bitch and get my ass fired, but then I am much better at giving advice than I am at practicing it.

Ed

 

[Guest]

If I were you, I'd invite her for a night out with your mates. Only go to the best gay bars in town, and watch her squirm. It won't stop her being an ignorant bigot, but she'd see what she's missing.

Lou

 

[mismused]

The whole SanFran gay marriage thing brought up gayness in general at work today.

My superior is obviously homophobic; previously she has said she found the idea of women kissing disgusting. Today she equated straight, traditional marriage with going to toilet in the bathroom and gay, non-traditional marriage as going to the toilet in the kitchen.

Now, aside from some fairly conservative views, she's a nice person. I personally am not gay, but my mum is, as are several of my friends. I'm finding her comments are niggling away at me, in fact I'm pretty pissed-off about them.

Now, what should I do, if anything?

===========================

Since you mentioned your mum, I'm not sure I should suggest this, since you didn't say if she was "out," or not, but then again, you can look at this or not.

I recently read one of the most eye-opening books on the subject of married women who love women. In fact, that is the title of it: "Married Women Who Love Women. It is one of the easiest to read books I've ever read, and opens up an area that I'd begun to suspect was totally hidden, but potentially huge in scope. Now I'm convinced of it.

There are many interviews with Married Women in the book, and it is easy to see that this book couldn't have been made up -- it's too honestly written. Anyway, it may contain some useable quotes for that supervisor. BTW, it's written by Carren Strock, who has a most unusual story to tell herself.

I'm not related to her, nor have any interest in the book other than that it seemed fascinating to me, and it turned out to be just that.

Good luck,

m

 

[dirtylover]

re

Thanks for all the comments everybody! Don't feel so annoyed about it now. I just find it odd that an adult, who is very nice in all other respects, can have such prejudices.

I guess I used to be homophobic in my early teens, but then grew up and realised gay people are just people. There's no need for the extra tag.

M - yeah, my mum is openly gay, she's had a long-term girlfriend for some time. Your book sounds interesting, does it say anything about women 'becoming' lesbian at a certain age? I think it might be quite common for women in their forties and fifities to discover another side to themselves...

 

[mismused]

Re: re

Thanks for all the comments everybody! Don't feel so annoyed about it now. I just find it odd that an adult, who is very nice in all other respects, can have such prejudices.

I guess I used to be homophobic in my early teens, but then grew up and realised gay people are just people. There's no need for the extra tag.

M - yeah, my mum is openly gay, she's had a long-term girlfriend for some time. Your book sounds interesting, does it say anything about women 'becoming' lesbian at a certain age? I think it might be quite common for women in their forties and fifities to discover another side to themselves...

===========================

Actually, it does. As I said, it is totally fascinating to read. There are quotes from many women of all ages. Some came out, some didn't.

Several things hit me as unusual about their stories, one of which was that many lesbians literally shun women who are married, and discover that they like women, but remain married (whether temporary or permanently).

The other thing was that there was a common denominator, as far as I'm concerned, but not surprised at, that the women who suddenly discover that the love women, and act on it, find the comfort in the "Softness" of women.

How the women find that they are lesbians is eclectic, and runs the gamut of all ages, including very young, and often older women like the author, but afraid that it is wrong, and marry "as expected," but lead miserable lives, those that don't accept their leaning.

There are also many little observations made by the author that more than hint at the misery that many women face, and from many fronts. As I said, it is quite varied, and rather impossible to fake.

If you or your mum are interested, I do strongly suggest that you get the book. Shockingly, it was printed in 1998. I say shockingly, because as far as I know, it wasn't a big hit. It seems we are afraid to admit that there is something very real in the "naturalness" of a woman's ability to love with another woman.

Most women quoted in the book site a lack of information on this subject, not to mention the shame that they feel in broaching it anywhere. That is a shame.

When published, it had a price of U.S. $23.95. It is ISBN #: 0-385-48825-4.

I hope this is of use to you, your mum, or anyone else who may need it. Personally, I've grown to have a deep hatred of ignorance, though that means I have a growing hatred of myself (*grin*).

m

 

[CharleyH]

The whole SanFran gay marriage thing brought up gayness in general at work today.

My superior is obviously homophobic; previously she has said she found the idea of women kissing disgusting. Today she equated straight, traditional marriage with going to toilet in the bathroom and gay, non-traditional marriage as going to the toilet in the kitchen.

Now, aside from some fairly conservative views, she's a nice person. I personally am not gay, but my mum is, as are several of my friends. I'm finding her comments are niggling away at me, in fact I'm pretty pissed-off about them.

Now, what should I do, if anything?

Hm, well some people just don't understand. Like my Gran for instance - my poor old gran - lol see another thread - Believe it or not, I have talked to many women who just can't imagine what two women do, even some younger women, but they understand gay males better? Sheltered, they have never heard the words dildo or strap-on or fisting. (Now, of course I would never use these terms to my Gran for fear of having to explain ).

Nonetheless, just because people don't understand, doesn't make them homophobic. Ignorance does.

Now, then again, a good friend of mine was exceptionally homophobic in first year U, she couldn't say enough bad things about me LOL joking. . . but then a moment came where she kissed a girl. It took her a couple of years to reconcile her beliefs and feelings, but she has been happily with women ever since

As for work. Well, funny how people will openly bash gay people but no other groups . . . and they get away with it because everyone lets them.

Personally, I always either give the look Gauche referred to earlier, or open my mouth with sarcasm. Don't forget she is equating all marriage with going to the toilet I think she has more of an issue with marriage. Divorced perhaps? LOL And well, isn't there something more upper class and kinky about having sex in the kitchen, all those fruits and . . . ? She's a dyke for sure!!!

 

[KarenAM]

Here's a thought: use the current sexaphobic climate against her. Tell her that you find that her talking about sexual matters, including homosexuality, is making you uncomfortable and to please stop. By lumping homosexuality in with sex in general, you keep her from knowing that you are sympathetic to gays (and thus avoid retaliation) but you shut her up and probably embarass her.

The only drawback is that you will then not be able to talk about sex yourself while at work, or even off work, if she's around. For me that would be a big problem.

I'd say what you should do depends on just how uncomfortable she is making you.

I also like Colly's idea, but I'm the sort who appreciates a good evil plan.

 

[Guest]

dl, I was being silly above. Next time, or you might choose a time, simply tell the woman that your mother is gay and you would rather she keep any disparaging remarks to herself. It's possible to say that without meaning any disparagement against her (though of course that would be implied and silent). It would be no different than having someone joke about an ethnicity if a parent or spouse was same.

best, Perdita

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Now, what should I do, if anything?

The best argument for tolerance is to introduce her to some nice people who happen to be gay, and don't tell her until she gets to know them. In fact, I think that's the only thing that works, is to see them as human beings first, and then as gays or vegetarians or Moslems or whatever.

On the radio the other day I heard, of all people, Tammy Faye Baker. Remember her? I always thought she and Jim got screwed, but that's neither here nor there. What was interesting was to hear about her relationship with the gay community, She's always been a gay icon, but it was sweet to hear how there's now a real mutual regard between her and gays. She still doesn't approve--her religion won't allow it--but she's certainly tolerant and even affectionate towards them. I guess she got a lot of support from them when she was going through all that legal stuff, and she claimed that it opened her eyes to the fact that they're people first and foremost.

---dr.M.

 

[CharleyH]

Re: Re: Homophobia

The best argument for tolerance is to introduce her to some nice people who happen to be gay, and don't tell her until she gets to know them. In fact, I think that's the only thing that works, is to see them as human beings first, and then as gays or vegetarians or Moslems or whatever.

On the radio the other day I heard, of all people, Tammy Faye Baker. Remember her? I always thought she and Jim got screwed, but that's neither here nor there. What was interesting was to hear about her relationship with the gay community, She's always been a gay icon, but it was sweet to hear how there's now a real mutual regard between her and gays. She still doesn't approve--her religion won't allow it--but she's certainly tolerant and even affectionate towards them. I guess she got a lot of support from them when she was going through all that legal stuff, and she claimed that it opened her eyes to the fact that they're people first and foremost.

---dr.M.

Tammy Faye Baker . . . lol - now there's an icon from the past, just don't bring up Anita Bryant - ok?

 

[pop_54]

It's been said by others here, but I'll have my say on it:

Aggressive homophobia is usually the result of someone fighting to keep their queer side in check. Shouting to the world that they hate homo's is their way of proving to themselves that they are not one such. Should this woman ever suffer a few drinks and a bit of horse play with a pretty young dyke, I'll put money on it she'll fall big time.

All this about taking her out and introducing her to gay types won't, as we know, be on the cards, first you've got to know some regular gay types, then of course you've got to persuade your boss to go out with you and meet them, the latter probably being the most difficult to achieve.

As for the toilet analogy, well she's just a bit twisted up if she can't think of anything more original, how the fuck did she make boss with a childlike mind of that ilk.

I know many queers and dykes, and I make no appologies for calling them by those old fashioned terms, they prefer it that way, most hate and detest being called gay, (that's just a PC term, hoisted on us by non-gay people). My mate Terry says it makes him sound so fucking poofy.

As for the book on lesbo's, well we all know, like hetro's they fall in different ways and at different times of life. A bi-sexual woman and her dyke friend who I know very well started when they were 14 at school, they're still at it now at 45, one happily married, one happily divorced, both doing it with men as well.

Nothing wrong with gay types, some of them can be very pretty, the guys that is, some of the birds are right dogs, hehe!! *Ducks and Runs*

pops

 

[NoJo]

I've never worked out how gay women can enjoy sex. I always thought you needed a penis for proper sex.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I've never worked out how gay women can enjoy sex. I always thought you needed a penis for proper sex.

Dito.

That's the reason why I remain straight, no matter how irritating men can be sometimes. I've never liked guys with small dicks, and seeing that women don't have dicks at all...

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I've never worked out how gay women can enjoy sex. I always thought you needed a penis for proper sex.

It's all in the tongue

-Colly

 

[Guest]

 

[minsue]

You are deliciously wicked.

Lime - Once again the last to know.

Yes, she is. Shocking, ain't it?

 

[Guest]

 

[minsue]

Don't pull that Miss Oh So Innocent stuff with me. I heard what you and P and Katie were doing next door.

"I..I ..I am appalled" Eulele McKenknie Shin

Lime

Lil ol' me? *blinks*

 

[CharleyH]

It's all in the tongue

-Colly

I heard you were a pro? Expert even?

 

[sweetnpetite]

The other day I picked up the paper and read about how here in Michigan, the proposal failed to go through to strengthen the ban on gay marriage. So I turn to my boyfriend and say, "why do they need to strengthen a "ban"? And he said, what we want to do is make it a Constitutional Amendment so that judges can't overrule it." ANd I looked at him funny and said, "we?" and he said, "yeah" and I just gave him an ugly look and quite talking to him. I've pretty much been pissed off at him ever since. there's no use arguing, cause I'll just get more pissed- so I just try not to think about it.

(We already had a discussion were he tried to tell me that marriage has *always* been between a man and a woman, and I said, just because they've always been that way isn't any reason to keep them that way. Not to mentiont the fallacy of what marriage has 'always' been. He sais he believes in Civil Unions though, so I guess that makes him a moderate. :eyeroll:

So my point is- I know what your going through. It sucks.

Before they put a hold on SanFransico performing gay marriage, I was daydreaming about doing it myself- even though I'm straight- just to protest the stupidity.

The whole SanFran gay marriage thing brought up gayness in general at work today.

My superior is obviously homophobic; previously she has said she found the idea of women kissing disgusting. Today she equated straight, traditional marriage with going to toilet in the bathroom and gay, non-traditional marriage as going to the toilet in the kitchen.

Now, aside from some fairly conservative views, she's a nice person. I personally am not gay, but my mum is, as are several of my friends. I'm finding her comments are niggling away at me, in fact I'm pretty pissed-off about them.

Now, what should I do, if anything?