Historical Settings

[sweetnpetite]

I think you're just lusting after Rideme Cowboy. You can't tell she's female until it's too late.

That could be it.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Lady pirate stories are fun

For a WWi story, the best place to start is to decide when you want to set it during the war years. The tides of battle and perceptions on the varius home fronts changed radically as the war progressed. I'm no expert, but if you need some info, I'd be glad to help.

Thanks Colly, I'll be sure to come find you if I ever tackle it.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thanks Colly, I'll be sure to come find you if I ever tackle it.

Always glad to help out when I can

 

[dr_mabeuse]

someday I want to write a story about a female outlaw/bank-robber in the old west.

But I don't really know anything about the old west, i don't even read westerns

I just have this picture of a sexy raven haired beauty ridding bareback on a brown horse. She's wearing a stetson, a loose blouse, a red bandana on her face and a pair of tight jeans. You can't really tell she's female until it's too late

Where is this picture- in my head

You ever see what women looked like back them? Gagghh! And men weren't any better. It's a good thing electric lights hadn't been invented yet, otherwise no one would have had any kids.

In fact, one of the biggest problems I have with historical stuff is finding some era where the looks of the people don't immediately turn me off. When I read medieval stuff, all I can think about it how the people stink and have sores all over from not bathing.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

You ever see what women looked like back them? Gagghh! And men weren't any better. It's a good thing electric lights hadn't been invented yet, otherwise no one would have had any kids.

In fact, one of the biggest problems I have with historical stuff is finding some era where the looks of the people don't immediately turn me off. When I read medieval stuff, all I can think about it how the people stink and have sores all over from not bathing.

LOL,

Suspencion of disbelief is supposed to make you forget that stuff, as well as roaches living in their hairdos and smallpox scars.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

You ever see what women looked like back them? Gagghh! And men weren't any better. It's a good thing electric lights hadn't been invented yet, otherwise no one would have had any kids.

In fact, one of the biggest problems I have with historical stuff is finding some era where the looks of the people don't immediately turn me off. When I read medieval stuff, all I can think about it how the people stink and have sores all over from not bathing.

This was a huge problem for me. I only solved this problem by giving my 15th century characters a lot of opportunities to bathe. Not that in real life they would've taken all of them unless they were obsessive compulsive. In Germany at that time there were many public baths to frequent, but as I understand it, people didn't go there so much for bathing.

 

[Weird Harold]

someday I want to write a story about a female outlaw/bank-robber in the old west.

But I don't really know anything about the old west, i don't even read westerns

Reading Westerns -- especially "Classic Westerns" by the likes of Louis L'mour and Zane Grey -- isn't the way to research an accurate historical novel about the time period.

Of Course if you just want to write a "Horseshit and Holsters" epic with an anachronistic female lead, the formulae western genere would be a big help -- except for the Sex scenes; horses get kissed more than school-marms do in that genre.


Qeurstion: If a conventional Pirate story is a "Bodice Ripper," Would a Lady Pirate story be a "Codpiece Ripper?"

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Reading Westerns -- especially "Classic Westerns" by the likes of Louis L'mour and Zane Grey -- isn't the way to research an accurate historical novel about the time period.

Of Course if you just want to write a "Horseshit and Holsters" epic with an anachronistic female lead, the formulae western genere would be a big help -- except for the Sex scenes; horses get kissed more than school-marms do in that genre.


Qeurstion: If a conventional Pirate story is a "Bodice Ripper," Would a Lady Pirate story be a "Codpiece Ripper?"

Not in mine


Actually, Louis L'amour did a lot of research for his pieces, in the form of places, weapons etc. He is also a fine storyteller. At least he is in my opinion.

 

[Weird Harold]

Actually, Louis L'amour did a lot of research for his pieces, in the form of places, weapons etc. He is also a fine storyteller. At least he is in my opinion.

True, as far as locations and hardware are concerned, LL is considered among the best at being realistic, but very few Western Genre Writers, includiing LL, get the sociology correct -- they write about the whitebread hollywood version of the the "Old West" with very few exceptions.

Of course, I'm talking about "Classic Westerns" and the "Westerns Genre" which is distinct from more modern "Historical Western Fiction." I haven't read "Westerns" in years, but I do read a lot of "Historical Western Fiction."

 

[BigAndTall]

I'm not sure I understand the question, though.

A tricky way for me to find stories that I might want to read (if they are posted here )

I have a serious love of histroy and was curious to see how it might be used by the writers here.

 

[BigAndTall]

A lot of historic Japan didn't survive WWII. The fire bombing raids destroyed 31 square miles of Jpanese cities in a week. Tokyo, Nogoya, Kobe, etc lost their historic centers in the flames.

The earliest capital for Japan was rather spared: Nara.

 

[BigAndTall]

This was a huge problem for me. I only solved this problem by giving my 15th century characters a lot of opportunities to bathe. Not that in real life they would've taken all of them unless they were obsessive compulsive. In Germany at that time there were many public baths to frequent, but as I understand it, people didn't go there so much for bathing.

As I understand, the human body gets to the point where it can't smell any worse and the oil and dirt form something of a protective coating (think "rhino").

 

[Colleen Thomas]

The earliest capital for Japan was rather spared: Nara.

Few cities of any size were. Not that I disagree with the tactics, but it pains me always to see how much history we have lost to wars, natural disasters and christians. It's heart breaking really.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

You ever see what women looked like back them? Gagghh! And men weren't any better. . . .

I think I know what you mean, Doc.

http://www.1wayinfo.com/Women_of_the_Old_West/WomenImages/BelleStarrW_BlueDuckResized.jpg

Here is that 'Flamboyant Bandit Queen' the beautiful Belle Starr with the equally ravishing Blue Duck.

 

[Weird Harold]

I think I know what you mean, Doc.

http://www.1wayinfo.com/Women_of_the_Old_West/WomenImages/BelleStarrW_BlueDuckResized.jpg

Here is that 'Flamboyant Bandit Queen' the beautiful Belle Starr with the equally ravishing Blue Duck.

He should have let her wear the dress and got her to shave her mustache.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Reading Westerns -- especially "Classic Westerns" by the likes of Louis L'mour and Zane Grey -- isn't the way to research an accurate historical novel about the time period.

not really concernrd with "acuracy" so much as atmosphere. Its just a smut storry- probably not even to the level of "Spur"

 

[sweetnpetite]

Blue Duck's not so bad looking.

I'm sure they had *some* good looking young girls. Maybe that's why they married so young.

 

[Weird Harold]

not really concernrd with "acuracy" so much as atmosphere. Its just a smut storry- probably not even to the level of "Spur"

"Just a smut story" is one of my pet peeves -- every story of every genre is first and foremost a story, with the same requirements for "accuracy" and "quality" as any other story in any other genre. [/rant]

The point about Classic Westerns is still valid whether you're looking for historical accuracy or just "atmosphere" -- Especially since "smut" is almost totally foreign to the classic western genre. The only reason there are two genders in that genre at all is because somebody has to be helpless and require rescuing. (Note much of Golden Age Science Fiction -- especially the so-called B.E.M. sub-genre -- suffers from the same mysogynism/sexism)

If you introduce smut into the classic western formula, you're changing the "atmosphere" to the point of converting from "Classic Western" to "Historical Western."

 

[dr_mabeuse]

True, as far as locations and hardware are concerned, LL is considered among the best at being realistic, but very few Western Genre Writers, includiing LL, get the sociology correct -- they write about the whitebread hollywood version of the the "Old West" with very few exceptions.

That's where most historical fictions fails, in my opinion. Not just in the sociology, but in presenting us with characters who actually think and operate the way people really did back in any given period. I don't know how many historical novels I've thrown at the wall because the characters were just modern people in costume.

Two exceptions: James Clavell's Shogun and Patrick O'Brian's Aubry-Maturin novels. The latter especially show you exactly what it was like to live in the Napoleonic era, what people knew and what they assumed, and the way they interacted. It's just fascinating stuff.

 

[shereads]

LOL,

Suspencion of disbelief is supposed to make you forget that stuff, as well as roaches living in their hairdos and smallpox scars.

And the fact that those tiny little dogs they carried weren't just there to be cute; they were there to attract fleas away from the human host.

I have a theory that historical settings are increasingly popular in the romance-novel business not only because the bodices were easier to rip before the invention of the sewing machine, but because women readers can enjoy the erotic aspects of all those ravishing pirates, cruel overlords and randy rakes without the nagging discomfort of enjoying something so politically incorrect.

If a woman in a contemporary novel is kidnapped, raped (or has implicitly non-consentual sex, if you prefer) forced into marriage by a man who wants her fortune, and then falls in love with him, there's something wrong with her (and with the female reader who wonders why she finds that behavior so titillating). But throughout most of history, female submission was a fact of life and even written into law. A medieval or Victorian heroine might be irate about having to contstantly mend her torn bodices, but it's not as if she has a choice. It's okay to identify with her, because she's not a wimp in the context of her time. In fact, if she slaps her pirate before he has his way with her, we can even pretend that she's spunky.

If our hero happens to have a lot of chains and ropes and leg shackles around, what else would you expect in a castle? It doesn't make him a bad person; just misunderstood and in need of a woman's understanding.

 

[shereads]

This was a huge problem for me. I only solved this problem by giving my 15th century characters a lot of opportunities to bathe. Not that in real life they would've taken all of them unless they were obsessive compulsive. In Germany at that time there were many public baths to frequent, but as I understand it, people didn't go there so much for bathing.

Is it true that in feudal Europe, one of the duties that came with being married to the lord of the castle was assisting with the baths of the host's honored male guests? Or did I dream that?



The only historical period that I really have a tough time finding erotic is the oddly popular Regency period. It's hard to appreciate a rake when he's wearing lace and high heels. And there's something downright creepy about powdered hair.

You can't beat the Victorians for sheer naughtiness. They did invent the word "pornography," after all.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I have a theory that historical settings are increasingly popular in the romance-novel business not only because the bodices were easier to rip before the invention of the sewing machine, but because women readers can enjoy the erotic aspects of all those ravishing pirates, cruel overlords and randy rakes without the nagging discomfort of enjoying something so politically incorrect.

No doubt. But the erotic fantasy aspects of being ravished are nothing to sneeze at. Both ravisher and ravishee are overwhelmed and swept away by their passions, which is something both men and women dream about: the transformative power of lust and desire, which knows no barriers.

Also, a little ravishment is awfully refreshing in the age of the sexual consent contract.

 

[Weird Harold]

The latter especially show you exactly what it was like to live in the Napoleonic era, what people knew and what they assumed, and the way they interacted. It's just fascinating stuff.

Have you read the Sharpe novels by by Bernard Cornwell? I enjoyed them lot, and the scholars of the Napoleonic era seem to think they're the bee's knees in historic accuracy. (there's a hint of "costume drama" in a couple of them, but very little as compared to a lot of the hisorical fiction I read.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

"Just a smut story" is one of my pet peeves -- every story of every genre is first and foremost a story, with the same requirements for "accuracy" and "quality" as any other story in any other genre. [/rant]

The point about Classic Westerns is still valid whether you're looking for historical accuracy or just "atmosphere" -- Especially since "smut" is almost totally foreign to the classic western genre. The only reason there are two genders in that genre at all is because somebody has to be helpless and require rescuing. (Note much of Golden Age Science Fiction -- especially the so-called B.E.M. sub-genre -- suffers from the same mysogynism/sexism)

If you introduce smut into the classic western formula, you're changing the "atmosphere" to the point of converting from "Classic Western" to "Historical Western."

LOL,

try lonestar WH, or six gun samurai, or any of the other gunsmoke & sex westerns. some aren't half bad for entertainment

 

[cloudy]

someday I want to write a story about a female outlaw/bank-robber in the old west.

But I don't really know anything about the old west, i don't even read westerns

I just have this picture of a sexy raven haired beauty ridding bareback on a brown horse. She's wearing a stetson, a loose blouse, a red bandana on her face and a pair of tight jeans. You can't really tell she's female until it's too late

Where is this picture- in my head

You might want to reconsider the "riding bareback" part.

As someone that's been riding almost as long as I've known how to walk, I can tell you, she's not gonna ride bareback all day like that, and then be able to walk once she gets off that horse. When you ride without a saddle, the only thing keeping you on your horse is the muscles in your legs.

Plus, no saddlebags to hold the money, etc.