Historical events with political ramifications

[someoneyouknow]

For some time I have been working on a side project and in the process of adding to it I need a historical event which if shown to be true or false would have modern day political or other ramifications. By that I mean, an event described in history but which we don't know if it truly happened, or the events were embellished.

For example, history says a treaty was signed between kingdom A and kingdom B which set their boundaries. Today, those two kingdoms, now countries, still dispute those boundaries. Showing that the treaty exists would benefit one side or the other.

I will not go into detail about the truth or falsehood of the event. I will only mention the political situation because of the truth or falsehood.

The event can be from any time in human history, on any subject and any location. Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[yukonnights]

Would some manner of "religious" issue be too controversial? The thing that comes to mind is something in the vein of The Da Vinci Code, etc. It seems that some major archeological discovery could occur which literally changes "whatever" in a nation state or between nations. The use of an archeological discovery might eliminate an obvious fabrication in regard to "boundaries", "royalty", etc. since it literally comes out of the blue.

Or, maybe the same kind of discovery only it's the "real" original Constitution of the USA...hidden away and lost all the years but now fully vetted and scientifically verified.

Sort of a tough one you've taken on...but it sounds intriguing.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Well let's see...

They found the city of Troy just recently putting to bed the myth that Helen wasn't real.

There have been several like that one floating around...lately. The myths were dispelled do to finding the place the myth talked about. Don't remember them off hand but I think the History Channel was where I heard about them. You could look on their site.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Would some manner of "religious" issue be too controversial? The thing that comes to mind is something in the vein of The Da Vinci Code, etc. It seems that some major archeological discovery could occur which literally changes "whatever" in a nation state or between nations. The use of an archeological discovery might eliminate an obvious fabrication in regard to "boundaries", "royalty", etc. since it literally comes out of the blue.

Or, maybe the same kind of discovery only it's the "real" original Constitution of the USA...hidden away and lost all the years but now fully vetted and scientifically verified.

Sort of a tough one you've taken on...but it sounds intriguing.

No, nothing is off limits though I already have a religious historical event.

The only qualification is the event must be real. Nothing along the lines of "Jerod the Wolfman, who was the illegitimate child of Queen Victoria, was Jack the Ripper".

This will only be a mention. Two sentences total. All I want is something to put in to make people go, "Hmmm".

 

[NotWise]

No, nothing is off limits though I already have a religious historical event.

The only qualification is the event must be real. Nothing along the lines of "Jerod the Wolfman, who was the illegitimate child of Queen Victoria, was Jack the Ripper".

This will only be a mention. Two sentences total. All I want is something to put in to make people go, "Hmmm".

How about legal decisions that change history? The treaty that gave the US control of the Black Hills was found by the Supreme Court to be invalid. One point of view is that ownership of the entire region should have reverted to the Tribes. They had to settle for a cash payment instead, but history could have worked out differently.

 

[someoneyouknow]

How about legal decisions that change history? The treaty that gave the US control of the Black Hills was found by the Supreme Court to be invalid. One point of view is that ownership of the entire region should have reverted to the Tribes. They had to settle for a cash payment instead, but history could have worked out differently.

Nothing like that. I'm looking for events which we don't really know what happened, or the written texts are contradictory or something similar. I am not looking for alternate history.

 

[NotWise]

You've been given a couple ideas which you've rejected. You're the author, and the only one who knows what you want. Make it up yourself.

 

[Voboy]

I saw an art installation a couple years ago about the no-man’s land created at the Green Line, which demarcated the UN borders recognized for Israel in 1949.

The line was done, I think, by Moshe Dayan using a green grease pencil on a medium-scale map covered in acetate. As he worked, the point of the pencil got duller, and the line is wider in some parts than in others.

With the scale of the map, the width of the Green Line on the ground, as Dayan drew it, is variable: it’s a strip of stateless land that, where the grease pencil was really dull, is like 300 meters wide. Other places, it’s more like 20m. And yet it’s meant to be just a notional line on the ground, with no effective width.

So then what’s the status of the land beneath the green grease pencil? Who owns it?

Not sure if it’s quite what you’re after, but it’s all I got. I’ll try to look up the installation and find out more.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm not sure what you're getting at or if I can think of any historical events that fit your description of something where "we don't know what happened." The best thing I can think of in modern times would be events where alternative theories are believed by some groups of people even though they are not regarded as the official stories, i.e., JFK was killed by multiple people in a conspiracy, the moon landings were faked, 9/11 was a government plot, Obama wasn't born in the US, that sort of thing. All of those events, if proved not to happen the way most people think, could have historical consequences.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Let's try this. Suppose one of you read somewhere about a Chinese text dated to the 8th century which some believe records the landing on the West coast of the U.S. The text describes the land, the indigenous people and even gives one or two landmarks which could be found today.

The ramifications of this event would change how we know history and would minimize Columbus.

Another example, through various documents and stories, it was shown the Rothschilds (some peoples favorite bogeymen) are actually the remnants of the Knights Templar.

Anything which if shown to be true or false would reshape how we see history.

 

[oggbashan]

Clive Cussler has used several plots based on what if?

They include:

A treaty between Britain and the US that gave Canada to the US.

President Lincoln abducted by the Confederates.

Other alternative histories:

What if Nazi Germany successfully invaded the UK?

What if one of the 1930s assassination plots actually killed Hitler?

What if the White Russians in the 1920s successfully defeated the Communists?

 

[Kojak01]

The event can be from any time in human history, on any subject and any location. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Almost any event which is discussed as conspiracy... I do not say any of these listed below are true or false! They are selected from a list on Wikipedia.

- 9/11 was an inside job
- JFK
- Poisoning of wells by Jews
- Jack the Ripper's identity
- AIDS was a biological weapon gone astray/to fight gays
- Everything around Area 51 and Aliens
- Bilderberg conference seeks world government
- Moon landing
- Pearl Harbor
- The Philadelphia-Experiment
- Waco
- The death of Lady Di
- Russia connection of Trump-team
- Hillary's emails
- There are stories about inside-jobs for almost every terrorist attack in the western world
- Many plane crashes have conspiracy theories around them
- Malaysia Airlines 370
- Illuminati
- Freemasonry
- Global warming

The list can be extended almost at will. Anything you can use?

 

[Handley_Page]

Clive Cussler has used several plots based on what if?

Other alternative histories:

What if Nazi Germany successfully invaded the UK?

Len Deighton: SSGB [perhaps ?

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I think part of the problem in the real world is that treaties rarely (never?) last too long and certainly don’t last for really extended periods.

A prince marries and gains a province as dowry. (Consider the marriage of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine.)

A third party comes into play which pays no attention to any treaty or existing border. (Consider the rapid spread of Islam in the 600s, 700s and 800s or the Mongols conquering China.)

A monarch dies heirless (any number of examples) and a dynastic change brings boundary shifts. Or a monarch dies and divides the land among his offspring (endless examples).

Land is conquered in a war of aggression (Rome, for instance). The change lasts long enough to become settled in the minds of all concerned. As another example, consider the colonial division of Africa based on geographical vice ethnic boundaries; this still is causing problems.

There are many others, of course. Given time, any new reality becomes the only reality. Important at the time, what is the impact of the Treaty of Utrecht or the Treaty of Ghent in current North American law anymore?

 

[oggbashan]

A monarch dies heirless (any number of examples) and a dynastic change brings boundary shifts. Or a monarch dies and divides the land among his offspring (endless examples).

...

There are many others, of course. Given time, any new reality becomes the only reality. Important at the time, what is the impact of the Treaty of Utrecht or the Treaty of Ghent in current North American law anymore?

The War of the Spanish Succession was ended by the Treaty of Utrecht.

The Treaty of Utrecht is causing problems with Brexit now. The status of Gibraltar is defined by that Treaty. The Spanish government wants to change Gibraltar's status as part of the Brexit negotiations - against the will of the people of Gibraltar.

 

[SimonDoom]

Let's try this. Suppose one of you read somewhere about a Chinese text dated to the 8th century which some believe records the landing on the West coast of the U.S. The text describes the land, the indigenous people and even gives one or two landmarks which could be found today.

The ramifications of this event would change how we know history and would minimize Columbus.

Another example, through various documents and stories, it was shown the Rothschilds (some peoples favorite bogeymen) are actually the remnants of the Knights Templar.

Anything which if shown to be true or false would reshape how we see history.

What might be helpful would be having a better idea where you want to go with this. Are you planning to use this idea for a historical work? Speculative fiction? A thriller?

A good example, I suppose, of a novel of this sort would be Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code, which is based upon an alleged fact about Jesus Christ that fuels the actions of a shadowy conspiracy group and propels the plot of the story. That's a thriller, and it's based on the idea that some people want to protect the secret and don't want it to come out, and will use violence to stop it.

The kind of event you are looking for depends, in part, on the kind of story you want to write, if that's what you're getting at.

 

[yukonnights]

Let's try this. Suppose one of you read somewhere about a Chinese text dated to the 8th century which some believe records the landing on the West coast of the U.S. The text describes the land, the indigenous people and even gives one or two landmarks which could be found today.

The ramifications of this event would change how we know history and would minimize Columbus.

Another example, through various documents and stories, it was shown the Rothschilds (some peoples favorite bogeymen) are actually the remnants of the Knights Templar.

Anything which if shown to be true or false would reshape how we see history.

I don't think either of those two events would stir up much of a fuss. There's no impact on enough people who would care. I know i would't get stirred over it.

Perhaps you can elaborate on the magnitude of impact you're looking for?

 

[Hypoxia]

The biblical Exodus story and its divine promise justifies the modern existence of Israel. The head of the archaeology dept at Hebrew University said that zero evidence has been found supporting the story. If no actual Exodus, we certainly have political ramifications.

"The Donation of Constantine is a forged Roman imperial decree by which the 4th century emperor Constantine the Great supposedly transferred authority over Rome and the western part of the Roman Empire to the Pope. Composed probably in the 8th century, it was used, especially in the 13th century, in support of claims of political authority by the papacy." Suppose it was not a forgery, or its true nature was ambiguous? Does the Vatican lose its political status?

 

[NotWise]

Let's try this. Suppose one of you read somewhere about a Chinese text dated to the 8th century which some believe records the landing on the West coast of the U.S. The text describes the land, the indigenous people and even gives one or two landmarks which could be found today.

The ramifications of this event would change how we know history and would minimize Columbus.

We already know that the Vikings had settlements here long before Columbus. I don't think that discovery had any ramifications, and it didn't minimize Columbus. The discovery that the Chinese made it here wouldn't have any more effect.

 

[someoneyouknow]

To answer several of the questions, I'm trying to write a book which involves time travel which takes place 70 years in the future. At this point in the story the administrator (similar to the NASA administrator) is waiting for a video call with the president to explain the problem they have found with the device. The device is used to send scientists from all fields back into time where they do research or explore events, then are brought back. They are observers only. No changing time.

Because they don't want the world to know about this problem (it involves bad things happening) the call is using the highest available encryption technology. While waiting, the administrator thinks back to the two times he is aware of that this level of encryption was used.

One time was before the announcement about what really took place at the Crucifixion. The other I'm trying to come up with. It's not a requirement to have two such events, only that it makes it somewhat more realistic. These events will never be mentioned again and will only encompass three or four sentences.

So, no conspiracy theories, no what ifs. Events, writings, etc which are either known to have happened or thought to have happened, but no one is sure what really did or did not happen.

I do like Hypoxia's example. While it may be a forgery, that type of scenario is what I'm looking for.

 

[ElectricBlue]

One time was before the announcement about what really took place at the Crucifixion. The other I'm trying to come up with. It's not a requirement to have two such events, only that it makes it somewhat more realistic. These events will never be mentioned again and will only encompass three or four sentences

The time you've spent here, you could have made up any number of events, written thirty-four sentences, and moved on.

If it's so inconsequential in terms of plot, it could be any event at all.

Mind you, this is all butterfly wings in the forest, fifty million years ago. No event is trivial, every different action is a whole new time stream.

 

[Weird Harold]

One time was before the announcement about what really took place at the Crucifixion. The other I'm trying to come up with. It's not a requirement to have two such events, only that it makes it somewhat more realistic. These events will never be mentioned again and will only encompass three or four sentences.

...

I do like Hypoxia's example. While it may be a forgery, that type of scenario is what I'm looking for.

Are you looking for something other than a religious "incident?" Meeting Buddha in a bar fight, exposing a young Geo Washington as a compulsive liar, or Abraham Lincoln at any age as dishonest, all would serve your purpose of exposing a revered historical figure's "true nature."

Expose Sun Tzu as a fiction writer and "The Art Of War" as the fictional work of a fictional character.

Find out who actually wrote Shakespeare's plays -- mention someone totally unbelievable not mentioned in any other actual theory of who wrote them.

Basically, pick any historical figure and "find out" something embarrassing about them.

 

[Hypoxia]

I've been (slowly, lazily) cooking sequels to A Matter of Time wherein a clutzy current time-traveler aims for targets but mis-navigates. He seeks Eve but is raped by hominid Lucy. He hunts Jeanne d'Arc but ends in bed with Lucretia Borgia. He aims for Mary Magdalene but encounters Cleopatra, or vice-versa. He wants to check out the Library at Alexandria but gets a nice survey of Pompeii pr0n instead, maybe retrieves juicy manuscripts. No downtime changes, no paradoxes to be paradoctored, but implications can certainly play out... in a slapstick fashion. I like slapstick.

 

[yukonnights]

To answer several of the questions, I'm trying to write a book which involves time travel which takes place 70 years in the future. At this point in the story the administrator (similar to the NASA administrator) is waiting for a video call with the president to explain the problem they have found with the device. The device is used to send scientists from all fields back into time where they do research or explore events, then are brought back. They are observers only. No changing time.

Because they don't want the world to know about this problem (it involves bad things happening) the call is using the highest available encryption technology. While waiting, the administrator thinks back to the two times he is aware of that this level of encryption was used.

One time was before the announcement about what really took place at the Crucifixion. The other I'm trying to come up with. It's not a requirement to have two such events, only that it makes it somewhat more realistic. These events will never be mentioned again and will only encompass three or four sentences.

So, no conspiracy theories, no what ifs. Events, writings, etc which are either known to have happened or thought to have happened, but no one is sure what really did or did not happen.

I do like Hypoxia's example. While it may be a forgery, that type of scenario is what I'm looking for.

Sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the added input, so now I'm gonna plug my original suggestion: The real Constitution of the USA was never made public...all manner of underhanded double dealing, forged signatures and general skulduggery involved to produce a "revised" version, etc. If that were ever discovered.... (Of course, that assumes the good ole USA is still around in 70 years in your story)

IMO, so much of really ancient history just wouldn't move nations. Too many layers of civilization and societies built on top of something really ancient.