Hip-hop

[Weevil]

I remember a thread a while back that was about Hip Hop and most of the posters decried hip hop for one of two things:

1) Being the death of proper English

2) Promoting the thug life

3) Being valueless musically

And well, I was listening to "Hip Hop" by Dead Prez today

Do you want a Lexus or Justice
A Dream or Some Substance
A beamer, A necklace or freedom
This is Real Hip Hop
and it don't stop
till we pull together and
get the poor folk off the block

Yikes. Good stuff.

You're fooling yourselves if you think rock or metal or punk has the juice nowadays. It's all here.

 

[Starfish]

more... more...... Enlighten me.

 

[Problem Child]

yeah.

Watch out, Beethoven and Lennon.

These guys got substance.

 

[Weevil]

yeah.

Watch out, Beethoven and Lennon.

These guys got substance.

I know they're no Foghat but they're the best my generation has to offer, old man!

And those are easily better lyrics than Beethoven ever wrote.

 

[*bratcat*]

good lord PC!

 

[Starfish]

Next he is going to tell us that House of Pain is all about the morals!!!!


Oh ya! No, but really, whatever floats your boat man...
If you knew what I was doing right now, you'd go????

Oh shit...... You're gonna find out here in a little bit... fuck.

 

[Weevil]

Re: good lord PC!

I am hoping you are being the wonderful SARCASTIC man that I know and love...

hip-hop?? yikes!

BC? You usually trust me when it comes to music, why not now?

Trust me folks. In ten years you'll all look like the people who were into Fabian when the Beatles were rocking.

 

[*bratcat*]

sweet EBW..

 

[Never]

Lennon,
Wasn't he the millionaire that said, 'Imagine no possessions.'?

I hate to say this but Lennon's 'messages' were to a group of well to do whites who wanted to change the world, not inter-city black youth who're just trying to survive. Do you realize that in some parts of America the average age of death for a black male is 25? 'Imagine no possessions'? Many people don't have to imagine. What message, of any substance is Lennon or Beethoven going to give to them?

 

[Weevil]

Re: sweet EBW..

that is SO true EXCEPT when it comes to hip-hop...
hip-hop = rap right? or maybe i am wrong here...

enlighten me oh EBWankanobie

Well, KRS-1 described the difference as being "Rap is the words, Hip-Hop is the culture" which to me says that when speaking about he music you'd be speaking about Hip Hop. Rap would just be discussing the lyrics and the lyricists method of delivering them.

 

[Weevil]

Lennon,
Wasn't he the millionaire that said, 'Imagine no possessions.'?

I hate to say this but Lennon's 'messages' were to a group of well to do whites who wanted to change the world, not inter-city black youth who're just trying to survive. Do you realize that in some parts of America the average age of death for a black male is 25? 'Imagine no possessions'? Many people don't have to imagine. What message, of any substance is Lennon or Beethoven going to give to them?

Hey, I don't mean to denigrate a master at what he did. Lennon's stuff often contained brilliant, Powerful messages. But the man's been dead for 20 years now. He doesn't translate well all the time and doesn't speak to current issues.

 

[Weevil]

Irregardless, what most people don't get is that the Rock out there now sucks . I mean really awful, contrived stuff. There are rare exceptions but people are listening to bottom of the barrel stuff when there are great tunes being made.

 

[*bratcat*]

sooooooo...

 

[Starfish]

Yoko was WHITE!!????!!! oh geeze I need some glasses.


No really Nevie kins..... You have a great point about the realities of poverty and ghetto life, but Johns heart was in it for the people. I am sure that greed hits everyone at somepoint, and sometimes that is why people die by the time they are 25... that or like every other death... of no fault of thier own. Shame all around.


Let's be happy for your birthday, sweetie!

*hugs never*

Okay, I'll back off and not snuggle you, but you need a smile.



here is one

 

[Weevil]

Re: sooooooo...

Puff Daddy et al are RAP artists...BUT live in a HIP-HOP culture?

No. They are rappers, but the music is Hip Hop. Much in the way that Paul Simon is a singer but you couldn't describe his music as "songs"

 

[Problem Child]

Lennon,
Wasn't he the millionaire that said, 'Imagine no possessions.'?

I hate to say this but Lennon's 'messages' were to a group of well to do whites who wanted to change the world, not inter-city black youth who're just trying to survive. Do you realize that in some parts of America the average age of death for a black male is 25? 'Imagine no possessions'? Many people don't have to imagine. What message, of any substance is Lennon or Beethoven going to give to them?

My dear Never...are you really going to base an argument for rap as an art form by criticizing John Lennon as an elitist? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I'm sure that there are some rappers that have a legitimate positive message. Perhaps you guys could enlighten me...I've heard KRS-1 is an example.

Too bad all the ones getting rich are the ones that glorify violence, drugs, illegitimacy, theft, murder, abuse...

nice message.

 

[Weevil]

I'm sure that there are some rappers that have a legitimate positive message. Perhaps you guys could enlighten me...I've heard KRS-1 is an example.

You're right PC. It's a shame in most musical genres that the poorly talented, commerically driven artists make it to the top instead of the real talents.

Want good Hip Hop? Look below the surface and check out Black Eyed Peas or KRS-1 or Public Enemy or Dead Prez or Mos Def or..............

 

[Problem Child]

You're right PC. It's a shame in most musical genres that the poorly talented, commerically driven artists make it to the top instead of the real talents.

Want good Hip Hop? Look below the surface and check out Black Eyed Peas or KRS-1 or Public Enemy or Dead Prez or Mos Def or..............

I'll do it. I know that in every genre there are artists and people that have something meaningful to say, just seems like rap is so driven to keep recycling the tired old worn out gangsta crap. And the kids buy it and look up to old gang-bangers like Snoop Dogg as heroes. Too bad.

 

[Never]

I wasn't arguing for rap.. in fact, I didn't mention rap at all.
You said (If I'm interpreting your words correctly) that Lennon and Beethoven had substance - I simply stated that the substance of a piece is dependent on who the listener is. I'm not arguing that Lennon wasn't good at what he did, but I find little of 'substance' in his work - and I doubt many of the people that rap is marketed to would find much 'substance' in his work either.

As for elitism, I'm not quite sure what you meant by that, but I'm guessing that I simply didn't make myself clear. I'm sorry, I'm not one to debate.

 

[KillerMuffin]

It's the BeeGees now. Don't we keep up with the latest? British studies at Oxford now include the BeeGees as a metaphor for Shakespeare. Hip hop has to wait its turn.

 

[Weevil]

I'll do it. I know that in every genre there are artists and people that have something meaningful to say, just seems like rap is so driven to keep recycling the tired old worn out gangsta crap. And the kids buy it and look up to old gang-bangers like Snoop Dogg as heroes. Too bad.

Maybe(Actually Snoops has a mean flow.) but I'm a much bigger fan of Snoop than I am of Limp Bizkit or Blink 182 or Green Day. Snoop occasionally does stuff with a message. Rarely, but it happens.

(Dre too. NWA stuff may not be the most positive but it sure contains a powerful message)

 

[lavender]

 

[Weevil]

EBW

Your taste in music sucks.

You know what I said in that Restaurant thread. Forget it.

Sorry, but with the exception of Laurel I have the coolest taste of music here. Were a snobby music critic to visit my house he'd be ridiculously impressed.

 

[lavender]

 

[Weevil]

I'm just giving you shit. I agree that you have good taste in music for the most part.

But, I'm not sure you truly understand the meaning of the world "music snob." I'm not sure I would put hip-hop and music snob in the same sentence.

Then you're living in 93 Lav. Fountains of Wayne are to Limp Bizkit what Black Eyed Peas are to Jay-Z in the eyes of a music critic. Like anything there is great stuff and bad stuff. As an aspiring music snob it's my job to know stuff other people don't.