highly sadistic perpetrator who did all he could to have a slave

[Exogenous]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060825/ts_afp/austriacrimekidnap_060825123128

"a highly sadistic perpetrator who did all he could to have a slave".

What was this man’s purpose, to kidnap an innocent child to train and educate her to become what he may have considered to be his ideal slave? Why a child? Did he feel so inferior that he had to abduct a child, incapable of developing a relationship with an adult woman who knew and understood her will/need/desire to be a slave? Or did he have some strange idea he could take a "blank slate" and make her what he deemed to be a slave in his own understanding or belief of what a slave should be. Or was he simply, horribly derranged?

What does the press mean by “sadistic”? Did he inflict her with physical pain? Or do they mean sadistic in the sense of mental and emotional pain? Or sadistic in that it brought horrific pain to her parents, fraught by torment of what happened to their beloved child? I'm a parent, and I don't want to even try to imagine the agony she went through by having all she knew to be safe (parents/home/environment) stolen from her, as well as what her parents went through all those years she was missing.

This is a bizarre, troubling, story, yet one can’t help but wonder what was going on in the mind of the kidnapper.

It’s necessary for survival, isn’t it, to bond with one’s abductor…such a tenuous lifeline. I wonder how the rest of her life will play out…how she will recover her own sense of self as a separate and whole being, independent of a "provider". Wow, what will the psychological ramifications be from this experience?

 

[s_red830]

that's messed up. almost like a serial killer, but of the soul.

eeeeeeh.

 

[myinnerslut]

people like that make me sick

 

[Ebonyfire]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060825/ts_afp/austriacrimekidnap_060825123128

"a highly sadistic perpetrator who did all he could to have a slave".

What was this man’s purpose, to kidnap an innocent child to train and educate her to become what he may have considered to be his ideal slave? Why a child? Did he feel so inferior that he had to abduct a child, incapable of developing a relationship with an adult woman who knew and understood her will/need/desire to be a slave? Or did he have some strange idea he could take a "blank slate" and make her what he deemed to be a slave in his own understanding or belief of what a slave should be. Or was he simply, horribly derranged?

What does the press mean by “sadistic”? Did he inflict her with physical pain? Or do they mean sadistic in the sense of mental and emotional pain? Or sadistic in that it brought horrific pain to her parents, fraught by torment of what happened to their beloved child? I'm a parent, and I don't want to even try to imagine the agony she went through by having all she knew to be safe (parents/home/environment) stolen from her, as well as what her parents went through all those years she was missing.

This is a bizarre, troubling, story, yet one can’t help but wonder what was going on in the mind of the kidnapper.

It’s necessary for survival, isn’t it, to bond with one’s abductor…such a tenuous lifeline. I wonder how the rest of her life will play out…how she will recover her own sense of self as a separate and whole being, independent of a "provider". Wow, what will the psychological ramifications be from this experience?

He is a pedophile. Need I say more?

 

[callinectes]

He is nothing but a sick fuck. How on earth will that poor girl ever have anything resembling a normal life?

 

[lord_bob]

I do not wish to say much, since this is one of the things that angers me most in the world

it wrong

 

[gypziedoll]

this is unbelievable, i am so angry at reading this report. Truly destestible.

 

[O'Mac]

I do not wish to say much, since this is one of the things that angers me most in the world

it wrong

Same here. I don't care what people want to do in their own bedrooms. If it's between consenting and responsible adults, that's cool. I draw the line when children are inolved though. People need to let kids be kids.

 

[Marquis]

This guy doesn't strike me as particularly sadistic at all.

Oh yes, and the obligatory:

That was SO wrong!

 

[Aeroil]

She won't have a normal life if people continually obsess over it.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

This guy doesn't strike me as particularly sadistic at all.

Oh yes, and the obligatory:

That was SO wrong!

You do make me laugh Marquis. There's hope for me yet if you're a moderator.

Although she says he was kind to her, she also ran away at the first opportunity that presented itself.

She will have an awful job adjusting to living independently, even with her family's support. It would be interesting to know whether she will remain submissive in any future relationship or maybe go completely the other way and need to control.

I have a good friend who was abused by his dad as a child for some years. He is 19 now and he is gay, has never been attracted to women. I do wonder whether, had he not been abused, he would still be gay as an adult or not.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I imagine she has an opportunity of leading a meaningful and fulfilling life in time with the right care and therapy, especially given she sounds as if she has smarts and intelligence and has not lost her mind despite the ordeal she went through. It seems natural to me that a person would take the oportunity to escape if held against their will, even if they were treated like a pampered pet...it comes back to consent and being able to make a choice. No-one has to be a victim all their life because they once were forced to be one, but many in society expect them to. I think by escaping, she has already shown she is a survivor and not submissive or victim.

I also am not into buying into the idea someone has to be either Dominant or submissive in a relationship, especially just because of being placed in this type situation. As I have said before, sometimes people get immersed in the idea of D/s to the extent they categorise everyone, vanilla or otherwise into their idea of sub or Dom/me when those people might just not be either or even remotely interested in being either...not everyone is Dominant or submissive, some are just people. We make a choice to be involved in D/s, as should we allow others to make the same choice if it is what they want or don't want, not project our reality on them.

Catalina

 

[VelvetDarkness]

She will have an awful job adjusting to living independently, even with her family's support. It would be interesting to know whether she will remain submissive in any future relationship or maybe go completely the other way and need to control.

I also am not into buying into the idea someone has to be either Dominant or submissive in a relationship, especially just because of being placed in this type situation. As I have said before, sometimes people get immersed in the idea of D/s to the extent they categorise everyone, vanilla or otherwise into their idea of sub or Dom/me when those people might just not be either or even remotely interested in being either...not everyone is Dominant or submissive, some are just people. We make a choice to be involved in D/s, as should we allow others to make the same choice if it is what they want or don't want, not project our reality on them.

Catalina

Thankyou for your comment Catalina.

It was not my intention to suggest that a dominant or a submisive role were this young woman's only options in any future relationship and should have clarified that. I just thought it would be interesting to find out if any power play occured and what kind of partner she would choose in the future.

 

[Chicklet]

This guy doesn't strike me as particularly sadistic at all.

I don't think it really gave us enough information to make that assumption ... i'd sort of like to know more about it, just 'cause i'm one of those sick fucks who, while yes, believing it's wrong, also likes to read true crime and such.

this sort of kind of reminds me of the case a couple decades back in california... gah, what'd they call it? i think "the girl in the box" and what was her name... colleen something. anyone know what i'm talking about? chick was kidnapped hitch-hiking from my home town Eugene, Oregon on her way down to visit friends in California and kept as a sex slave to a couple for eight years?

 

[Marquis]

I think by escaping, she has already shown she is a survivor and not submissive or victim.

I totally agree.

 

[MorfeuV]

Morality is someone else's opinion.

He did nothing wrong.

 

[CutieMouse]

He did nothing wrong.

At the absolute minimum, this person kidnapped a child. How is that not wrong?

 

[cinnamonstick]

He did nothing wrong.

When did kidnapping not become a crime? Must have missed that newsbreak.

 

[MorfeuV]

When did kidnapping not become a crime? Must have missed that newsbreak.

I didn't say that it wasn't a crime. I just said it wasn't wrong.

At the absolute minimum, this person kidnapped a child. How is that not wrong?

How is it not right?

 

[CutieMouse]

How is it not right?

Sigh. I suspect you you are the sort who greatly delights in being contrary, just for the sake of debte.

I'm quite busy this evening, but will do my best to come back to the thread.

 

[Marquis]

Uh oh, I think we got a live one.

http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/troll/dolly-troll.jpg

 

[MorfeuV]

Notwithstanding.

Subjectivist Fallacies:
Appeal to Majority
This argument has the form:

The majority (of people, nations, etc.) believe p; therefore, p is true.
In this case, the subjective state of large numbers of people, not just a single person, is being used as evidence for the truth of a proposition. But the argument is still subjective--and still fallacious. We can see why, once again, by identifying the implicit assumption: namely, that whatever the majority believes to be true is true. Majority opinion is obviously not infallible.

If a 17 year old female were to have sex with an 18 year old male, the 18 year old male may be charged with statutory rape.

Depending on the situation it may or may not be looked down upon.

Let's say the female in this analogy is 1 month away from turning eighteen, & her 18 year old partner was only 1 month older than her.

Most people, will feel that nothing wrong happened.


Nevertheless, he did commit a crime [the crime of statutory rape] wether or not he had mal intentions or how it made her feel.

In this case why is it different?

Is it becuase the child was taken away from her home (making her & her parents feel a sense of loss)?

Aren't most people taken away from there homes anyway (college, marriage, military, maturity)?

Why is it that just becuase it was sooner rather than later does it make it WRONG?

Yes, it made them feel bad, but how is that WRONG?

I assume that when you read about the 17 year old female sleeping with the 18 year old male, the way you felt about them & the way you feel about this kidknapping is different.

The way we feel is not absolute.

The law is based off of the prevailing opinions of people.

Peoples opinions/morals are shaped off of their own biased beleifs, prejudices & values.

Subjectivist Fallacies:
Appeal to Emotion
(Argumentum ad Populum)
This fallacy is the attempt to persuade someone of a conclusion by an appeal to emotion instead of evidence. A person who commits this fallacy is hoping that his listeners will adopt a belief on the basis of a feeling he has instilled in them--outrage, hostility, fear, pity, guilt, or whatever.
More often, however, the appeal is less direct. It may take the form of rhetorical language that is heavily laden with emotive connotations, as in propaganda and other sorts of incendiary political speech.

The fallacy may also take the form of visual images that have a strong emotional impact.

Many people do not like what that man did becuase of how it made them feel.

I suspect that you do not like what he did because it made you feel angry & sad.

You must realize that what you feel is notwithstanding to what is.

Subjectivist Fallacies:
Appeal to Force
(Argumentum ad Baculum)
If I "persuade" you of something by means of threats, I have not given you a reason for thinking the proposition is true; I have simply scared you into thinking, or at least into saying, it is true.
The fallacy need not involve actual physical force or violence. It is committed whenever any sort of threat is used, and nonphysical threats are probably more common than physical ones.

The way we feel is not absolute.

The law is based off of the prevailing opinions of people.

Peoples opinions/morals are shaped off of their own biased beleifs, prejudices & values.



http://www.wwnorton.com/college/phil/logic3/ch6/subjvsm.htm

 

[MorfeuV]

Marquis:

Just becuase someone disagrees with you does not make them WRONG.

 

[Marquis]

Peoples opinions/morals are shaped off of their own biased beleifs, prejudices & values.

You're a genius!

I imagine if we were human traffickers we would likely see the foolishness in thinking that kidnapping a 10 year old girl and keeping her locked in a basement cell was wrong.

It's too bad we're so biased.

 

[CutieMouse]

Marquis, dear- that troll image is just creepy. Ew.

MorfeuV-

My opinion of why kidnapping is wrong, is because a child is unable to fully consent to going with the kidnapper, not because the case saddens or angers me.

At the time of the kidnapping the child was ten. My eldest daughter will be ten this fall- as bright and charming a girl as she is, she often has the good judgement of a toothpick. In general, a ten year old child is not experienced enough to make a well reasoned decision, to consent to leave her parent's home, to live with another. That is why kidnapping is wrong.

Yes- we all leave our parent's home at some point in Life. Some of us (myself, included) are forced to make a choice to leave it earlier, rather than later. However, this child was ten at the time of the kidnapping. She did not *choose* to leave her parent's home. She was forced through the act of kidnapping, to leave her parent's home. This is not the same as going off to college, or signing up for the military, or getting married, or turning that idioticly magical age of 18- most of which one can choose to participate in with full consent.

The kidnapping of a ten year old child simply can not be compared to the normal course of maturing that occurs as young people reach the age of majority.

Now- how about you prattle on a bit about why the kidnapping was right?