Hey all...

[MaeveoSliabh]

It's been a good long while since I've been here (in another guise), but I'm in need of some advice.

Some number of years ago I was trained to be a pet. One of the things I was taught is that, in the case of Master wanting to be undisturbed, I should lay on the floor at the foot of the bed. Especially if I was needing to be close because of some sort of emotional necessity for intimacy. I was always given something of his to hold onto. Even though it's been years since that relationship, this behaviour is something I tend to revert to doing.

Problem: I did that this morning. I went from my bedroom to that of the current man, took the shirt he had worn the day before, and curled up to sleep at the foot of his bed. He woke up and immediately chided me for being a childish person for coming in like a kid that had had a nightmare. He told me that it was absolutely neurotic behaviour that i would even think about sleeping there like a dog, and even worse that i felt the need to do so with something of his.

i tried to explain that this was something i was actually trained to do as an adult. That, as a child, i was taught to do other things like play games or read a book, but AS AN ADULT this was the behaviour preferred by those of higher rank.

i needed the proximity this morning. There have been too many stressors for me to deal with well lately. One of them being the sense that i'm about a half a hair from losing Him - and He is my will to keep going at the moment. This obviously didn't help the situation. So, a couple of questions.

How would you try to explain this?
What would you do to rectify the situation?
Do you have any advice on how to 'erase' this training?

Please, anything constructive would be greatly appreciated.

 

[FurryFury]

Do y'all have a D/s or BDSM relationship at all?

Clearly the behavior that you were doing to seek comfort weirds him out. It's possible that if you were able to communicate clearly about it, what it means to you, why you wanted or needed to do it this morning he could relax about it.

It's also possible he could still dislike it. In that case, perhaps he could explain to you what behavior he would be comfortable and hope to comfort you when you feel you need comfort in the future.

I'd personally leave the child/adult thing out of this. It's not about that. Other than trying to make it clear that is not what it's about for you or explaining how condescending and condemning his reaction made you feel, I don't see the point of that being a focus in this situation.

Good luck with this. That sounds like a difficult conflict to deal with.

 

[Chicklet]

i needed the proximity this morning. There have been too many stressors for me to deal with well lately. One of them being the sense that i'm about a half a hair from losing Him - and He is my will to keep going at the moment. This obviously didn't help the situation. So, a couple of questions.

I hate to be the bitch that suggests that perhaps if he's already feeling like he wants to leave the relationship, this might just be another excuse and small annoyance that's grinding on his nerves and giving him reason to lash out.

I think that if you're sensing that he wants out, it's perfectly reasonable that you might not have sought solace directly with him, instead taking a shirt and curling up near him. Even if you hadn't been trained with pet behavior, this would seem reasonable to me. It's something I could picture myself doing, and I probably have done before, with someone I loved who was feeling something different towards me.

It doesn't look like a good sign that he's not understanding. But I have to say, also, that if he's the kind of person that can't wrap his head around the fact that you have some modified behaviors from past relationships, then he's not accepting you for who you are right now. If he doesn't like it, he can either set it aside and deal with it, or try to help you get over it. It doesn't sound like he's willing to do either.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

FF: No, there is no semblance of any sort of D/s or BDSM in this relationship. At least none that he will recognise even though it's fairly obvious to anybody who's been in the lifestyle for any amount of time that there are definite D/s tendencies.

I'm hoping to be able to get him to sit and talk with me over the next couple of days. He's locked himself in his room and refuses to come out today, as a way of putting off anything to do with me. Hopefully, when the time comes, we'll be able to have an adult conversation. Thank you for your advice on how to approach things.

Chicklet: Feel free to be the bitch. I just hate thinking that you may be right... Do you think that he may be not understanding because I have changed quite a bit in the last year, year and a half? He has helped me become more confident and independant, which has actually rid me of many of the learned behaviours. It's still confusing being stuck between what I was and what I'm becoming, and knowing that I'm a half a step from failure. Which is why his support is needed right now. I want SO MUCH to do something useful, and to become a better person, but life keeps getting in the way, then things like this happen.

OK, feeling myself go down an emotional drain, so need to quit.

 

[FurryFury]

If there is no understanding of D/s and such in your relationship with him or in his mind what that is like, he is going to have a tough time understanding being "trained" as an adult.

Y'all are going to have to have a real talk about quite a few things IF he is willing. Honestly his behavior sounds very negative and estranging. I wouldn't be happy with it.

However, I will say, wearing a shirt of his, hugging his pillow and so on are behaviors I'd do when missing him no matter what kind (nilla or D/s) of relationship I was in.

 

[Recidiva]

You were seeking comfort in a way that makes sense to you, he condemns that.

I have any number of strange behaviors, but they're unique to me. If you feel anxious and you want a particular type of ice cream, or a book to read, or to cook a particular meal...all these little rituals mean something. When someone has no patience for your unique rituals, or the meaning behind them, then I lose faith in them caring about you other than in the appearance you provide. It's certainly not care about the way you tick.

Huge. Red. Flag. Waving.

I hope you find your way. I would suggest seeking comfort through some new ritual that symbolizes you being able to provide comfort to yourself. A new moment of time and a choice that means you can do things for yourself, on your own terms, and nobody needs to have an opinion about it, or even know you're doing it. Something to serve your soul and nobody else's. If he's symbolically shown you he does not wish to be approached and does not wish to understand, you are completely free to send the same message, and mean it.

 

[Chicklet]

Chicklet: Feel free to be the bitch. I just hate thinking that you may be right... Do you think that he may be not understanding because I have changed quite a bit in the last year, year and a half? He has helped me become more confident and independant, which has actually rid me of many of the learned behaviours. It's still confusing being stuck between what I was and what I'm becoming, and knowing that I'm a half a step from failure. Which is why his support is needed right now. I want SO MUCH to do something useful, and to become a better person, but life keeps getting in the way, then things like this happen.

it's all too easy to be the bad guy and point out people's problems from outside of the relationship. inside the relationship is a totally different story, because if you're not the optimist that keeps trying to succeed where you've 'failed' before, then you're probably going to go crazy.

do i think that he's not understanding because of the changes he's helped you make in the last year and a half? maybe. maybe he's having a hard time seeing something he's worked so hard at (i'm assuming) regress into past behaviors. but maybe he *ought* to see that as a sign that you need something more from him at that time. there could be a thousand reasons he reacted the way he did to your behavior. i'm just pointing out what it sounds like *to me* based on your description.

you can not beat yourself up over little slips. 'things like this happen'? was this really such a big deal? it's only as big a deal as the two of you make it. if it was me in your position, i'd be beating myself up over it even after he'd forgotten, because i've got very low self esteem and honestly i keep waiting for something terrible to happen to my relationships. i also always expect it to be my fault. so maybe you're looking to your own behavior, which might be very natural to you in a depressed state of mind, to be the thing that pushes him over the edge.

is he angry at you randomly? annoyed with you? are you two arguing or just cold to each other occasionally? when those kinds of things happen in my personal relationships, i become much more critical of my random behavior. even stupid little things i say. i attribute my boyfriends' behavior towards me as a reaction to a mistake *i* make, even if it's not true.

these are all things that i could see possibly going on here. maybe you two are just having some rocky times right now.

i can *say* that you just need to relax and have some confidence, but i could say that to myself a lot and it just makes me that much more critical of how i'm behaving

 

[FungiUg]

How would you try to explain this?
What would you do to rectify the situation?
Do you have any advice on how to 'erase' this training?

Please, anything constructive would be greatly appreciated.

Talk it through. Ask what you "should" have done. Then practice that. A learned behaivour is just that: learned. Nothing stopping you from learning a new behaivour. But find out what will work for the two of you now.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I'm hoping to be able to get him to sit and talk with me over the next couple of days. He's locked himself in his room and refuses to come out today, as a way of putting off anything to do with me. Hopefully, when the time comes, we'll be able to have an adult conversation.

This paragraph greatly disturbs me. Separating himself from you for a little while if he's upset about something, until he can find a way to address it in a constructive way, is one thing. "Locking himself in his room and refusing to come out," to avoid "having anything to do with you?" That's childish, immature, and disrespectful to both of you. The last sentence - "Hopefully, when the time comes, we'll be able to have an adult conversation." - is perhaps even more disturbing, because there is a fairly strong implication there that adult conversations are not the norm between the two of you, but an aberration. If I've drawn a correct inference there, I see little hope for him as a life partner for anyone who's not a co-dependent enabler.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

This paragraph greatly disturbs me. Separating himself from you for a little while if he's upset about something, until he can find a way to address it in a constructive way, is one thing. "Locking himself in his room and refusing to come out," to avoid "having anything to do with you?" That's childish, immature, and disrespectful to both of you. The last sentence - "Hopefully, when the time comes, we'll be able to have an adult conversation." - is perhaps even more disturbing, because there is a fairly strong implication there that adult conversations are not the norm between the two of you, but an aberration. If I've drawn a correct inference there, I see little hope for him as a life partner for anyone who's not a co-dependent enabler.

Maybe you're more correct than I want to admit. But, in his defense, he was also not feeling well at all (which I didn't know until about an hour ago).

Our conversations are not usually what I consider to be adult simply because it usually consists of his lecturing and my listening. It's a fairly rare thing for us both to be able to voice our opinions and concerns equally, or in a manner in which is not condescending to one or the other of us. We were able to sit down for a very few minutes a little bit earlier and he did listen a bit more. Hopefully what I told him will sink in... As it is, things are at least a little bit better this evening.

Let's hope they stay that way.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

Talk it through. Ask what you "should" have done. Then practice that. A learned behaivour is just that: learned. Nothing stopping you from learning a new behaivour. But find out what will work for the two of you now.

Hi Fungi! (I remember you from when the 'other' me was around)

We're working on that. Slowly. He told me that this behaviour would have been skimmed over six months ago, but that he was just so disappointed that I hadn't gotten further that he couldn't let it go.

We shall see where it goes from here.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

You were seeking comfort in a way that makes sense to you, he condemns that.

I have any number of strange behaviors, but they're unique to me. If you feel anxious and you want a particular type of ice cream, or a book to read, or to cook a particular meal...all these little rituals mean something. When someone has no patience for your unique rituals, or the meaning behind them, then I lose faith in them caring about you other than in the appearance you provide. It's certainly not care about the way you tick.

Huge. Red. Flag. Waving.

I hope you find your way. I would suggest seeking comfort through some new ritual that symbolizes you being able to provide comfort to yourself. A new moment of time and a choice that means you can do things for yourself, on your own terms, and nobody needs to have an opinion about it, or even know you're doing it. Something to serve your soul and nobody else's. If he's symbolically shown you he does not wish to be approached and does not wish to understand, you are completely free to send the same message, and mean it.

Hi Diva.

As I said, he was just disappointed and not feeling well. It got all blown out of proportion because of that. Usually he's pretty ok with my seeking comfort in my own way, even if he doesn't particularly care for the fact that it usually has to do with being clingy and cuddly.

Maybe, someday, I'll be able to do my own thing... but not yet. I haven't gotten that far just yet.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

FF, Chicklet: Thank you for your understanding. It seems you can empathise.

Especially you, Chicklet. You kind of hit it on the head with the whole low self esteem thing. And putting more on the self than what should be there. It's one of the things that he and I have been working on for so long. There's still a long way to go.

Usually we get along about half the time, maybe a little more. There's also another person in this relationship, which adds stress to the whole thing, and his favor swings back and forth between the two of us. It just seems as if the favor has been toward her more lately. Much of that has been due to financial stresses - my having been out of work has been... uh... less than pleasant for all of us. Even if it truly wasn't my fault and we all are well aware of that. The blame is still placed for my being unable to hold that particular job. Which is just something that happens.

But, again, we shall see what happens.

 

[Homburg]

Some number of years ago I was trained to be a pet. One of the things I was taught is that, in the case of Master wanting to be undisturbed, I should lay on the floor at the foot of the bed. Especially if I was needing to be close because of some sort of emotional necessity for intimacy. I was always given something of his to hold onto.

One of my former submissives had similar training, and similar ingrained behaviours as a result. Before I took her on, I gave her a shirt of mine simply because the idea of having a man's shirt comforted her so strongly. When she stayed over, she liked to sleep at the foot of the bed. Admittedly, I thought it odd, but I've done some odd things in the name of comfort.

I wish you luck in helping your SO to understand your motivations and needs.

 

[FurryFury]

I sing this in the shower sometimes . . .

Honey, honey, can i put on your clothes?
Because they feel so good
And they feel like you
Oh, won't you please let me
Because they get to me
They touch me and then move me
I get to thinking i won't be needin'
Anything more to keep me warm
I feel the feeling of you
Al1 the way through
No other feeling will ever do
Honey, honey,
Can i put on your clothes?
Because they feel so good
And they feel like you
They're just like old friends
When we're together
They comfort me and soothe me
They're not brand new
They're a little worn through,
But they're comfy and roomy
They do something to me
And when i stay at home
And you're far away
I won' t be lonely all through the day
Honey, honey,
Can i put on your clothes?
Because they feel so good
And they feel like you
I feel the feeling of you
All the day through
No other feeling will ever do
Honey, honey,
Can i put on your clothes?
Because they feel so good
And they feel like you...
Honey, honey, honey. . .hum...

Barbra Streisand - Honey Can I Put On Your Clothes?

Or this one:

Alanis Morissette - Your House Lyrics




I went to your house
Walked up the stairs
I opened your door without ringing the bell
I walked down the hall
Into your room
Where I could smell you
And I shouldn't be here, without permission
I shouldn't be here

Would you forgive me love
If I danced in your shower
Would you forgive me love
If I laid in your bed
Would you forgive me love
If I stay all afternoon

I took off my clothes
Put on your robe
I went through your drawers
And found your cologne
I went down to the den
I found your cd's
And I played your Joni
And I shouldn't stay long, you might be home soon
I shouldn't stay long

Would you forgive me love
If I danced in your shower
Would you forgive me love
If I laid in your bed
Would you forgive me love
If I stay all afternoon

I burned your incense
I ran a bath
And I noticed a letter that sat on your desk
It said "Hello love, I love you so love, meet me at midnight"
And no, it wasn't my writing
I'd better go soon
It wasn't my writing

So forgive me love
If I cry in your shower
So forgive me love
For the salt in your bed
So forgive me love
If I cry all afternoon

And there are other songs like these. It's not just a strange thing that no one does, believe me trained as a pet or not.

I like what was said about him not seeming to care about your feelings and needs. That is simply not good partnering in my book. We all have quirks but when you care about each other, it's not that big a deal to say, that's just how s/he is IMO.

 

[ms.read]

FF: No, there is no semblance of any sort of D/s or BDSM in this relationship. At least none that he will recognise even though it's fairly obvious to anybody who's been in the lifestyle for any amount of time that there are definite D/s tendencies.

I'm hoping to be able to get him to sit and talk with me over the next couple of days. He's locked himself in his room and refuses to come out today, as a way of putting off anything to do with me. Hopefully, when the time comes, we'll be able to have an adult conversation. Thank you for your advice on how to approach things.

Chicklet: Feel free to be the bitch. I just hate thinking that you may be right... Do you think that he may be not understanding because I have changed quite a bit in the last year, year and a half? He has helped me become more confident and independant, which has actually rid me of many of the learned behaviours. It's still confusing being stuck between what I was and what I'm becoming, and knowing that I'm a half a step from failure. Which is why his support is needed right now. I want SO MUCH to do something useful, and to become a better person, but life keeps getting in the way, then things like this happen.

OK, feeling myself go down an emotional drain, so need to quit.

If you like being a pet, or subbie, then do what is right for you. He is the one acting like a child by locking himself in the bedroom and giving you silent treatment.

Also, when you got into the relationship with him, did you explain your needs? A good "master" will listen to you. he sounds like a peice of trash, but thats only my opinion. why did you let him train you out of some of those behaviors i would understand if it those behaviors made you like a walking carpet, you should not have to put up with that.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Once again we seem to be condemning someone who is not here to speak for themselves, while getting some fairly mixed messages from the messenger. On the one hand you say there is no D/s etc., in this relationship on his part, though it is clear you want to believe there is because that is what you want (or at least you believe it could be)....lesson number one is value a person for who they are, don't try and make them over to suit what you want. Then you say that equal conversations don't normally take place in this relationship....if you wanted D/s and given your previous training, I would think this would be something you were used to...and yet I'm not sure equal discussions don't take place as much as they do not go your way and so are seen as unequal or childish. And if you want a D/s relationship, or know you still carry behaviours from that lifestyle, why get involved with a vanilla/mainstream partner and then feel slighted it is not as you wish?

I'm sorry to be so blunt, and admit I may be way off given we have limited information, but it just seems if the relationship is in trouble, that is way more important to discuss than whether you can curl up at the end of his bed with his shirt. Obviously you sleep seperately, or were on this occasion as you said you went from your room into his room to do this...is it possible what upset him more was an invasion of his personal space while he was not awake to have a choice....could it be he felt you overstepped your position or trampled his privacy and rights? In vanilla days I could see myself having a similar reaction to that situation. If you sleep separate it could very well be he felt you had intruded or violated his trust.

As to closing himself in his room....I have been in relationships where the other person was fairly clingy, to the point of pushing and pushing to get what they want or try and wear me down to their wishes, where going into another room and shutting them out was a very sane option...given he wasn't feeling well he likely wanted a little space and quiet. Perhaps this was further signal he felt you had already invaded his space and he was taking it back in a very obvious way....perhaps these are ways he has found which make you stop, or perhaps listen to what he feels, wants etc., as opposed to what you want and expect to be OK. I'm sorry if I am off base but I am just not so cool with people always jumping to conclusions from carefully presented postings by someone other than the person being judged....and why do you keep emphasising you are known to us but by another name? This most of all says perhaps all is not as you present, but in a way which will work in your favour (why do you feel a need for deception and hiding who you are if you are known here?)...and just how does that really help you in a RL situation I don't know unless you plan to tell him how many people think he is childish etc., in an effort to win youself points, which to me is the one acting childish. I wish you luck but I am not convinced he is the one totally at fault here.

Catalina

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

FF: Thank you! I'll be looking up a song or two here shortly...

Homburg: That's kind of what we've worked out to do. He did admit that it made him wonder about my mental stability when it happened, but after what little explanation we could afford (hard to find private time to talk in this house) he could kind of see where I was coming from with the need for it. We've worked out that, instead of doing something like that, he will spray my one stuffed animal - my children got it for me with some of his cologne. Hopefully it will work as well.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

If you like being a pet, or subbie, then do what is right for you. He is the one acting like a child by locking himself in the bedroom and giving you silent treatment.

Actually, I'm the one that asked him to help me get out of that particular mindset. And, in his defense, he really was not feeling well and just wanted to rest.

Also, when you got into the relationship with him, did you explain your needs? A good "master" will listen to you. he sounds like a peice of trash, but thats only my opinion. why did you let him train you out of some of those behaviors i would understand if it those behaviors made you like a walking carpet, you should not have to put up with that.

I did explain my needs fully. We had months worth of hours-long discussions before deciding that it would be a good thing for me to move in with him and his other girl. Granted, many things have changed since then, which has thrown a huge monkey wrench into the workings of the original plans, but we've been trying to work around it.

As I said, I actually asked him to help me rid myself of many of these behaviours. We've both been working on it for almost a year and a half now. Which, I guess, is why it's so frustrating and disappointing when these behaviour patterns slip through again.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

Once again we seem to be condemning someone who is not here to speak for themselves, while getting some fairly mixed messages from the messenger. On the one hand you say there is no D/s etc., in this relationship on his part, though it is clear you want to believe there is because that is what you want (or at least you believe it could be)....lesson number one is value a person for who they are, don't try and make them over to suit what you want.

There is, in every relationship, a very mild sense of D/s. This is no different. We have both known since the beginning that he is a slightly more dominant person. That being said, there is a sense of more equality than in any other relationship that I've been a part of. My wants and needs are taken into consideration more than with any other person. Usually.

As for making him over... there are two things that I would change at this moment. The first would be that things had happened slightly differently, in such a way that we could have continued with our original plans. That was just life getting in the way and there's nothing to be done about it. The second would be that his hair would grow back. He had me shave his head this morning. Other than that, he's about as good as he's going to get. I was originally asking for help in explaining myself, advice on how you would handle the problem that arose, and how I could change MYSELF to help this along.

Then you say that equal conversations don't normally take place in this relationship....if you wanted D/s and given your previous training, I would think this would be something you were used to...and yet I'm not sure equal discussions don't take place as much as they do not go your way and so are seen as unequal or childish. And if you want a D/s relationship, or know you still carry behaviours from that lifestyle, why get involved with a vanilla/mainstream partner and then feel slighted it is not as you wish?

As I said, I've asked to be un-trained. I don't WANT a D/s relationship. Not anymore. I want to be my own individual, and have become confused on how to do this. He agreed to help me, and has done a pretty decent job of it so far.

I think you're seeing things wrong as far as the conversations go. I can take a conversation that doesn't go my way. Usually it just ends up being laughed off. I'll even admit when I'm wrong. However, asking to have a conversation about something, getting it started, then ending up sitting for an hour or more listening to a lecture about whatever the subject is would not be considered a good conversation. Having to ask to make a comment, ask a question, or add to my side of the talk can get to be... um... less than pleasant at times. Especially when he's not understanding what exactly I feel needs to be talked about.

There are times, when I ask specifically that he curb himself and let me talk, that we will sit down together and have a good conversation. They just don't happen too often. When they do, they usually end up being mutually beneficial. We both understand more where the other is coming from.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, and admit I may be way off given we have limited information, but it just seems if the relationship is in trouble, that is way more important to discuss than whether you can curl up at the end of his bed with his shirt. Obviously you sleep seperately, or were on this occasion as you said you went from your room into his room to do this...is it possible what upset him more was an invasion of his personal space while he was not awake to have a choice....could it be he felt you overstepped your position or trampled his privacy and rights? In vanilla days I could see myself having a similar reaction to that situation. If you sleep separate it could very well be he felt you had intruded or violated his trust.

This is actually something we talked about. We do sleep in separate rooms, as I'm the second girl in the relationship and she claims the right to sleep with him, but usually I'm given the option to come into his bed after she leaves for work. I had been asked not to sleep with him, to let him rest. Unfortunately, he woke me up at about 3 am to tell me this and I missed the part about not coming into his room... which is where the main mistake was made. He knows that's what happened and is ok with it now.

As to closing himself in his room....I have been in relationships where the other person was fairly clingy, to the point of pushing and pushing to get what they want or try and wear me down to their wishes, where going into another room and shutting them out was a very sane option...given he wasn't feeling well he likely wanted a little space and quiet. Perhaps this was further signal he felt you had already invaded his space and he was taking it back in a very obvious way....perhaps these are ways he has found which make you stop, or perhaps listen to what he feels, wants etc., as opposed to what you want and expect to be OK.

Usually he just tells me to back it off. Tells me if I'm becoming clingy. And that's enough. This was really odd behaviour for him.

I'm sorry if I am off base but I am just not so cool with people always jumping to conclusions from carefully presented postings by someone other than the person being judged....and why do you keep emphasising you are known to us but by another name? This most of all says perhaps all is not as you present, but in a way which will work in your favour (why do you feel a need for deception and hiding who you are if you are known here?)...and just how does that really help you in a RL situation I don't know unless you plan to tell him how many people think he is childish etc., in an effort to win youself points, which to me is the one acting childish. I wish you luck but I am not convinced he is the one totally at fault here.

Catalina

If you must know, I had to create 'this' me because of a less than pleasant divorce involving children. It's still not too well know who the 'other' me is. I used to post all over these boards as entitled. Unfortunately, the ex knows that, and found out what my password was. It was enough to make me lose my kids.

As for telling the current how many people think he's childish, you're way off base. He knows I post here, but doesn't visit the site. He doesn't know what I post about, and doesn't care. He just knows that it makes me happy, so encourages it. It gives me something to do, and a way to get creative juices flowing. Honestly, he doesn't even know this thread has been started. He probably never will. The Gods know I'll never mention it.

I know he's not totally at fault here. That's been admitted. And this has been a true plea for help. I WANT to change, to become better, and just don't know how.

 

[Homburg]

That's kind of what we've worked out to do. He did admit that it made him wonder about my mental stability when it happened, but after what little explanation we could afford (hard to find private time to talk in this house) he could kind of see where I was coming from with the need for it. We've worked out that, instead of doing something like that, he will spray my one stuffed animal - my children got it for me with some of his cologne. Hopefully it will work as well.

Smell is endlessly important to some people. I still miss the scent of the submissive I mentioned, and have often thought about asking her what perfume she used, or finding her tanning lotion, just to get that scent back. For others, it is meanignless, and they are unlikely to understand.

I am glad to hear that you two are communicating, and it sounds like he is willing to make concessions. I wish you both the best.

And don't be so hard on yourself about old behaviours slipping through. Times of stress bring out old habits. This is why people that quit smoking pick up the habit again when something brutally stressful happens in their lives. The body and mind remember the comfort of old habits, and seek out those familiar patterns to attain a sense of consistency in a world that has gotten altogether too inconsistent.

 

[catalina_francisco]

There is, in every relationship, a very mild sense of D/s. This is no different. We have both known since the beginning that he is a slightly more dominant person. That being said, there is a sense of more equality than in any other relationship that I've been a part of. My wants and needs are taken into consideration more than with any other person. Usually.

As for making him over... there are two things that I would change at this moment. The first would be that things had happened slightly differently, in such a way that we could have continued with our original plans. That was just life getting in the way and there's nothing to be done about it. The second would be that his hair would grow back. He had me shave his head this morning. Other than that, he's about as good as he's going to get. I was originally asking for help in explaining myself, advice on how you would handle the problem that arose, and how I could change MYSELF to help this along.

As I said, I've asked to be un-trained. I don't WANT a D/s relationship. Not anymore. I want to be my own individual, and have become confused on how to do this. He agreed to help me, and has done a pretty decent job of it so far.

I think you're seeing things wrong as far as the conversations go. I can take a conversation that doesn't go my way. Usually it just ends up being laughed off. I'll even admit when I'm wrong. However, asking to have a conversation about something, getting it started, then ending up sitting for an hour or more listening to a lecture about whatever the subject is would not be considered a good conversation. Having to ask to make a comment, ask a question, or add to my side of the talk can get to be... um... less than pleasant at times. Especially when he's not understanding what exactly I feel needs to be talked about.

There are times, when I ask specifically that he curb himself and let me talk, that we will sit down together and have a good conversation. They just don't happen too often. When they do, they usually end up being mutually beneficial. We both understand more where the other is coming from.

This is actually something we talked about. We do sleep in separate rooms, as I'm the second girl in the relationship and she claims the right to sleep with him, but usually I'm given the option to come into his bed after she leaves for work. I had been asked not to sleep with him, to let him rest. Unfortunately, he woke me up at about 3 am to tell me this and I missed the part about not coming into his room... which is where the main mistake was made. He knows that's what happened and is ok with it now.

Usually he just tells me to back it off. Tells me if I'm becoming clingy. And that's enough. This was really odd behaviour for him.If you must know, I had to create 'this' me because of a less than pleasant divorce involving children. It's still not too well know who the 'other' me is. I used to post all over these boards as entitled. Unfortunately, the ex knows that, and found out what my password was. It was enough to make me lose my kids.

As for telling the current how many people think he's childish, you're way off base. He knows I post here, but doesn't visit the site. He doesn't know what I post about, and doesn't care. He just knows that it makes me happy, so encourages it. It gives me something to do, and a way to get creative juices flowing. Honestly, he doesn't even know this thread has been started. He probably never will. The Gods know I'll never mention it.

I know he's not totally at fault here. That's been admitted. And this has been a true plea for help. I WANT to change, to become better, and just don't know how.

I will come back to this when time permits, but I have to say I do not agree that all relationships have an element of D/s...that is at best wishful thinking, at worst deluding oneself toperhaps try and make up for what doesn't exist. Even though I am very heavily involved in this lifestyle, I would find it highly offensive to be told I had D/s in my relationship if I were a mainstream person, particularly if I was a mainstream person who either didn't want to be associated with this lifestyle, or worked hard to maintain an equal relationship.

Catalina

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

I will come back to this when time permits, but I have to say I do not agree that all relationships have an element of D/s...that is at best wishful thinking, at worst deluding oneself toperhaps try and make up for what doesn't exist. Even though I am very heavily involved in this lifestyle, I would find it highly offensive to be told I had D/s in my relationship if I were a mainstream person, particularly if I was a mainstream person who either didn't want to be associated with this lifestyle, or worked hard to maintain an equal relationship.

Catalina

You don't have to agree. That's not what this is about. However, there is always a person that is slightly dominant to the other, no matter what the relationship. Therefore, there is always an element of dominance and one of submission. It may not necessarily be what the entire relationship is about, and may be extremely mild and subtle, but it is there.

Now can we get off of this rabbit trail and back to the main subject?

 

[FungiUg]

Two comments.

Firstly, you can't "un-train". What you can do is train new responses and behaivours. To do that, you need to work out what those behaivours should be and then practice them. Of course, the hard bit is generally working out what you want them to be, and that will involve a fair amount of honest communication between the two of you. So best of luck there!

Secondly, I have been known to use the "silent treatment" myself. Not because I am ignoring or punishing, but because I need time to chill out, calm down and think through what I want and how to get there. Having said that, it's really not the best way of doing this because it really does leave your partner feeling left out (as you no doubt have felt yourself.) But I thought it would be fair to explain that it's not necessarily a "childish" behaivour, but can be done for constructive reasons.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

Two comments.

Firstly, you can't "un-train". What you can do is train new responses and behaivours. To do that, you need to work out what those behaivours should be and then practice them. Of course, the hard bit is generally working out what you want them to be, and that will involve a fair amount of honest communication between the two of you. So best of luck there!

That's what I meant by un-training. If that makes sense. It's more a re-training in a more vanilla, more dominant manner, which would take away or cover over the uber submissive stuff.

Secondly, I have been known to use the "silent treatment" myself. Not because I am ignoring or punishing, but because I need time to chill out, calm down and think through what I want and how to get there. Having said that, it's really not the best way of doing this because it really does leave your partner feeling left out (as you no doubt have felt yourself.) But I thought it would be fair to explain that it's not necessarily a "childish" behaivour, but can be done for constructive reasons.

Which is what he was doing. He was trying to relax, trying to get himself together, and getting a little quiet time and rest. Which, as you said, left me feeling shut out and pushed away - but it's what he needed, so that's ok.