Heterosexuals, homosexuals and pedophilia

[Halo_n_horns]

Ok, my wife has gotten into a hell of a debate on another website where a guy has started a thread called, "Homosexuals more likely to be pedophiles (or worse)."

The guy has thrown in some stats that support the claim he's making about homsexuals and pedophilia. My wife (she's become a pitbull on this guy's ass) has done some digging and shown that there's definitely some holes in his claim, the worst of which was that some of the stats he used were generated in studies that were backed and/or affiliated with religious groups, or the studies were more "superficial" than well-detailed and scientific. She is also waiting on an e-mail from an unbiased source who works in this field every day, and will either prove this other guy to be correct or incorrect.

It seems to me, and my wife, that someone could only be starting a thread like this because he wants a legitimate reason to bash gays in a public forum.

Being that there are so many people here who are far better read and more intelligent than myself, my question to the community here is what do you think/know about this subject?

 

[Guest]

It seems to me, and my wife, that someone could only be starting a thread like this because he wants a legitimate reason to bash gays in a public forum.

Yep, that's the way it seems to me, too (without having even seen the thread in question).

I know nothing about this subject, but my common sense tells me that how on earth can someone's sexuality have any bearing on whether or not they are inclined towards the sickness that is paedophilia?

I am astounded that someone can spout such tripe. Good on your wife for being a pitbull on his ass.

Lou

 

[Halo_n_horns]

Yep, that's the way it seems to me, too (without having even seen the thread in question).

I know nothing about this subject, but my common sense tells me that how on earth can someone's sexuality have any bearing on whether or not they are inclined towards the sickness that is paedophilia?

I am astounded that someone can spout such tripe. Good on your wife for being a pitbull on his ass.

Lou

Thanks. I'll make sure she sees this.

 

[Guest]

That wouldn't be ole' amicus on that site, would it?

Good for your wife, and you too, for seeing through the bullshit.

I just did a quick search and you can find dozens of sites and reports that state very clearly that "Homosexuals Molest at a Higher Rate than Heterosexuals."

But it isn't accurate.

These sites have names such as the "Family Values Coalition," They put a slick spin on skewed research study results in an attempt to frighten the unwary reader with horror stories about homosexuals. Phooey.

All of this, in order to push their ultra-conservative agenda.

It's pretty sad when religion is used dishonestly in order to mislead, punish, and persecute.

 

[CharleyH]

Ok, my wife has gotten into a hell of a debate on another website where a guy has started a thread called, "Homosexuals more likely to be pedophiles (or worse)."

The guy has thrown in some stats that support the claim he's making about homsexuals and pedophilia. My wife (she's become a pitbull on this guy's ass) has done some digging and shown that there's definitely some holes in his claim, the worst of which was that some of the stats he used were generated in studies that were backed and/or affiliated with religious groups, or the studies were more "superficial" than well-detailed and scientific. She is also waiting on an e-mail from an unbiased source who works in this field every day, and will either prove this other guy to be correct or incorrect.

It seems to me, and my wife, that someone could only be starting a thread like this because he wants a legitimate reason to bash gays in a public forum.

Being that there are so many people here who are far better read and more intelligent than myself, my question to the community here is what do you think/know about this subject?

YEP. It has been a common argument since, god 25 years ago that I recall. The facts are, having working in lets say health and politics, is that straight, married men are the more likely suspects

 

[Halo_n_horns]

That wouldn't be ole' amicus on that site, would it?

Good for your wife, and you too, for seeing through the bullshit.

I just did a quick search and you can find dozens of sites and reports that state very clearly that "Homosexuals Molest at a Higher Rate than Heterosexuals."

But it isn't accurate.

These sites have names such as the "Family Values Coalition," They put a slick spin on skewed research study results in an attempt to frighten the unwary reader with horror stories about homosexuals. Phooey.

All of this, in order to push their ultra-conservative agenda.

It's pretty sad when religion is used dishonestly in order to mislead, punish, and persecute.

Had to ask my wife the guy's name. He's going by "watchman." Thanks for the input.

 

[Halo_n_horns]

YEP. It has been a common argument since, god 25 years ago that I recall. The facts are, having working in lets say health and politics, is that straight, married men are the more likely suspects

That's what I said. I think she's found proof to back that up and now she's just waiting to pounce.

Thanks.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I just did a quick search and you can find dozens of sites and reports that state very clearly that "Homosexuals Molest at a Higher Rate than Heterosexuals."

Any such studies, even if they were backed by factual data, would be severely biased against homosexuals for a very simple reason: if one were to take all known paedophiles and verify how many had engaged on heterosexual paedophile acts and how many had engaged on homosexual acts, one would still be forgetting that those acts of primarily of paedophilia. Whether they're inflicted upon boys or girls is most commonly a simple matter of proximity and availability, not of gender preferences.

 

[TheEarl]

Well, I would have thought it was obvious. Those gay people are obviously suffering from a mental illness; I mean, it's not as though they're normal, is it? And if they're mentally ill, then they might do all sorts of despicable things.

You should watch out when you go near them. I've heard they might be contagious.

The Earl

 

[Lauren Hynde]

YEP. It has been a common argument since, god 25 years ago that I recall. The facts are, having working in lets say health and politics, is that straight, married men are the more likely suspects

The most common occurrences of paedophilia by a huge margin are committed by fathers upon their daughters/sons.

 

[Guest]

Any such studies, even if they were backed by factual data, would be severely biased against homosexuals for a very simple reason: if one were to take all known paedophiles and verify how many had engaged on heterosexual paedophile acts and how many had engaged on homosexual acts, one would still be forgetting that those acts of primarily of paedophilia. Whether they're inflicted upon boys or girls is most commonly a simple matter of proximity and availability, not of gender preferences.

Exactly.

To compare homosexuality with child molestation is frightening because it enables the homophobic fool. It fills them with a sense of righteous indignation. They feel justified somehow when they denegrate or even physically attack homosexuals.

Ignorant fools.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

However, to ignore that something might be gained from analysis of sexual-preference with relation to incidents of pedophilia would be blind censorship, wouldn't it? Given that any group has a higher rate of something than another, doesn't that put us closer to correcting or preventing distasteful situations in the future?

I don't know of any conclusive study about in favor of a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia--I somehow doubt there is one; but to say that nothing positive could be gained from asking the question is precisely why I'm proud that tenure exists in academia.

I'd hate to have to pander to people who think that scary questions ought be ignored and unpleasant conclusions should be written off as ignorance or hatred.

 

[NoJo]

The most common occurrences of paedophilia by a huge margin are committed by fathers upon their daughters/sons.

Yes. Pedophilia is not a sickness, it's an abuse of power.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

An interesting tidbit we just covered in my Abnormal Psychology course:

Pedophilia is a mental disorder classified in the DSM-IV-TR which is used as the standard for any and all bonafide psychological abnormalities.

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder, according to the DSM-IV-TR. It used to be, but the last 20 or 30 years of study has changed that.

All the evidence I found of the two being linked together was supplied by political and/or religious groups.

Depending on how you view the court system, this case might be worth looking at. Equality Foundation of Greater Cincinnati, Inc. vs. City of Cincinnati

Highlights

• Sexual orientation bears no relation to an individual's ability to perform, contribute to, or participate in, society.
• There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia.
• Homosexuality is not indicative of a tendency towards child molestation.
• Homosexuality is not a mental illness.

~lucky

 

[Guest]

An interesting tidbit we just covered in my Abnormal Psychology course:

Pedophilia is a mental disorder classified in the DSM-IV-TR which is used as the standard for any and all bonafide psychological abnormalities.

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder, according to the DSM-IV-TR. It used to be, but the last 20 or 30 years of study has changed that.

All the evidence I found of the two being linked together was supplied by political and/or religious groups.

Depending on how you view the court system, this case might be worth looking at. Equality Foundation of Greater Cincinnati, Inc. vs. City of Cincinnati

Highlights

• Sexual orientation bears no relation to an individual's ability to perform, contribute to, or participate in, society.
• There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia.
• Homosexuality is not indicative of a tendency towards child molestation.
• Homosexuality is not a mental illness.

~lucky

You go, girl.

 

[NoJo]

That means pedophilia shouldn't be viewed as criminal. Whereas homosexuality can be. I don't trust psychologists.

 

[rgraham666]

A person can hear just about anything, if they listen long enough.

Sigh. Why can't people look at reality instead of just digging up 'facts' to support their a priori beliefs?

Oh wait. Narf! It's easier than thinking. If you thought, you might have to change your mind. If you changed your mind that would mean you are wrong. Since you can't be wrong no actual thought is allowed.

 

[Boxlicker101]

First, I agree that the thread was started as a way to bash gays.

Second, although I have no particularly knowledge of the subject, I believe this: If a straight widow with a ten year old daughter marries a straight man and a gay widower with a ten year old son marries, or the nearest equivalent, a gay man, the ten year old girl is at greater risk of being molested by the new person in the relationship.

 

[CharleyH]

However, to ignore that something might be gained from analysis of sexual-preference with relation to incidents of pedophilia would be blind censorship, wouldn't it? Given that any group has a higher rate of something than another, doesn't that put us closer to correcting or preventing distasteful situations in the future?

I don't know of any conclusive study about the correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia--I somehow doubt there is one; but to say that nothing positive could be gained from asking the question is precisely why I'm proud that tenure exists in academia.

I'd hate to have to pander to people who think that scary questions ought be ignored and unpleasant conclusions should be written off as ignorance or hatred.

Cudos - nothing is conclusive EVER. Ask away, Joe. what are those questions in this light, however flourescent it may seem?

 

[lucky-E-leven]

That means pedophilia shouldn't be viewed as criminal. Whereas homosexuality can be. I don't trust psychologists.

How does the psychology make something criminal or not?

Just because there's a criteria for what makes someone a pedophile doesn't mean they're not still outside the law.

~lucky

 

[NoJo]

To call pedophilia a psychological condition potentially allows people to plead diminished responsibility. I think it's almost as worrying as calling homosexuality criminal.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Cudos - nothing is conclusive EVER. Ask away, Joe. what are those questions in this light, however flourescent it may seem?

I can't agree that nothing is ever conclusive. Your statement that "nothing is ever conclusive" cannot be conclusive if nothing is ever conclusive (just for starters), and I think there are some conclusive things.

Beyond that, I don't understand the question you're asking.

 

[SadieRose]

First, I agree that the thread was started as a way to bash gays.

Second, although I have no particularly knowledge of the subject, I believe this: If a straight widow with a ten year old daughter marries a straight man and a gay widower with a ten year old son marries, or the nearest equivalent, a gay man, the ten year old girl is at greater risk of being molested by the new person in the relationship.

Sound analysis.

At the end of the day, Paedophilia is a disease, it is not a lifestyle choice. People molest because they thrive on the power it gives them. Power over someone weaker and more susceptible than themselves.

Psychological Profiling in the UK has already determined that the majority of abuse victims are molested by heterosexual family members or friends of the family. Please note that this includes male victims abused by "straight" male assailants.

People abuse because they believe they can get away with it. Sexual orientation has nothing at all to do with it.

xx.
Sadie

 

[lucky-E-leven]

To call pedophilia a psychological condition potentially allows people to plead diminished responsibility. I think it's almost as worrying as calling homosexuality criminal.

I understand now, but there isn't really a way to separate whether one views mental illness as fact or excuse. It's a double edged sword, it seems. The diagnosis must exist in order to treat/institutionalize, but that leaves room for it to be twisted into a disability possibly available for special consideration in future.



~lucky

 

[NoJo]

To call pedophilia a disease is pretty dangerous. They used to say that about homosexuals.

All it does is create pariahs and perpetuate ignorance.

I'll say it again, pedophilia is an abuse of power. That's the issue. Not what goes on in people's brains.

Self-mutilation can be viewed as a disease. But there's no debate about its criminal status. Why not?