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[Kumquatqueen]

For every British movie and TV show I've seen, I understand almost everything that is said. Maybe Cockney would be a bit more difficult - does that even still exist?

In New York, a lot of Yiddish words were well understood by many people, Jewish or not. That is probably starting to fade.

The true Cockney accent and dialect is dying out - here's an example, captions available:
BBC 'Word of Mouth: Cockney'

Technically Cockneys were born within the sound of Bow Bells, but with more tall buildings that's hugely shrunk what was most of East, Southeast and Northeast London. And huge numbers of East Londoners were moved to new towns and estates in Essex (Northeast of London) after WWII, as what's now called Docklands was basically flattened.

It's now merged into what's called Estuary English, or dismissed as oiks and chavs from the eastern half of London and beyond in SE England, who pronounce th as f, drop h's and say 'innit' and 'we was like' a lot.

There's still differences between East London (more cockney) and South London (right geezer) Fatiha El-Gourri is a young Hackney comedienne (very E London), compared with say Dinesh Nathan (young south-southwest London, could call it MLE, Multicultural London English) or the older Mark Steel (traditional south London) - loads of videos online but you can't share links to YouTube or Insta etc without sharing your details.

 

[HordHolm]

The true Cockney accent and dialect is dying out - here's an example, captions available:
BBC 'Word of Mouth: Cockney'

Technically Cockneys were born within the sound of Bow Bells, but with more tall buildings that's hugely shrunk what was most of East, Southeast and Northeast London. And huge numbers of East Londoners were moved to new towns and estates in Essex (Northeast of London) after WWII, as what's now called Docklands was basically flattened.

It's now merged into what's called Estuary English, or dismissed as oiks and chavs from the eastern half of London and beyond in SE England, who pronounce th as f, drop h's and say 'innit' and 'we was like' a lot.

There's still differences between East London (more cockney) and South London (right geezer) Fatiha El-Gourri is a young Hackney comedienne (very E London), compared with say Dinesh Nathan (young south-southwest London, could call it MLE, Multicultural London English) or the older Mark Steel (traditional south London) - loads of videos online but you can't share links to YouTube or Insta etc without sharing your details.

Good summary. I'd also add Mockney, the attempt of someone outside the Cockney region to gain the street cred of actual Cockneys. My genuine Cockney mates define such folk as Ray Winstone and Jamie Oliver as very much Mockney.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Lots of Cockney phrases have been adopted across Britain. Even if someone didn't use such phrases themselves, I'd expect any Brit to understand "I'm not tellin' porkies, I'm brassic, can't go for a ruby tonight, let's scarper. Oi, have a butcher's at those nice Bristols on 'er!", in conversation or in writing

Maybe not: "so I was on the dog with the Dutch, saying 'ow me old china needed to use 'is loaf and take 'is titfer off in the theatre, even if 'e was wearin' a dodgy syrup, or he'd be left on his tod if not brown bread..." - most people could understand in writing.

Some phrases have died out: no-one's going to talk about their briny's lovely thrupp'nies any more.

 

[HordHolm]

Lots of Cockney phrases have been adopted across Britain. Even if someone didn't use such phrases themselves, I'd expect any Brit to understand "I'm not tellin' porkies, I'm brassic, can't go for a ruby tonight, let's scarper. Oi, have a butcher's at those nice Bristols on 'er!", in conversation or in writing

Maybe not: "so I was on the dog with the Dutch, saying 'ow me old china needed to use 'is loaf and take 'is titfer off in the theatre, even if 'e was wearin' a dodgy syrup, or he'd be left on his tod if not brown bread..." - most people could understand in writing.

Some phrases have died out: no-one's going to talk about their briny's lovely thrupp'nies any more.

I recently had to explain what calling someone a berk actually meant. Lovely jubbly! And this was to a fellow Londoner.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Good summary. I'd also add Mockney, the attempt of someone outside the Cockney region to gain the street cred of actual Cockneys. My genuine Cockney mates define such folk as Ray Winstone and Jamie Oliver as very much Mockney.

Winstone, yes. Jamie's just from Essex and was encouraged to be all laddish geezer for the cameras. I'm told he sounded the same as a teenager.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I recently had to explain what calling someone a berk actually meant. Lovely jubbly! And this was to a fellow Londoner.

Thing is, kids grow up thinking a berk is a bit stronger than a prat (bit more stupid?), as it's a word used in primary schools, children's books and by your mum.

Most people are shocked to find out it technically is calling someone a cunt (Berkshire Hunt), because it doesn't have any of the same taboo factor. Not sure it ever did?

 

[HordHolm]

Thing is, kids grow up thinking a berk is a bit stronger than a prat (bit more stupid?), as it's a word used in primary schools, children's books and by your mum.

Most people are shocked to find out it technically is calling someone a cunt (Berkshire Hunt), because it doesn't have any of the same taboo factor. Not sure it ever did?

Yep. My Dad (south London but from an East Ham family originally) used to call me a berk when I was a kid and I'd done something a bit daft. If he didn't get it (and he did national service, too, just after WW2 so he was exposed to army slang as well as both Cockney and south London), then it's hardly surprising that Home Counties folk don't know its actual meaning.

 

[Cali_Love]

I write like I talk, so my turn of phrase is going reflect that. Being a California native, my language will be different than an author from Texas, Wisconsin, or New York to name a few. I embrace the differences. I especially love to read stories penned from Britain, Australia, et. al. The difference in their turn of phrase adds so much fun to the story for me. Just love it. Who would be critical of that?!

The spelling/grammar thing, doh. I meant ‘butt’, it published ‘but’ and it got laser beam focused on. Never mind that I strung together 21,000 words for anonymous free pastime. A missing letter t makes me and the story stupid. Thanks, asshole.

 

[gunhilltrain]

The true Cockney accent and dialect is dying out - here's an example, captions available:
BBC 'Word of Mouth: Cockney'

Technically Cockneys were born within the sound of Bow Bells, but with more tall buildings that's hugely shrunk what was most of East, Southeast and Northeast London. And huge numbers of East Londoners were moved to new towns and estates in Essex (Northeast of London) after WWII, as what's now called Docklands was basically flattened.

It's now merged into what's called Estuary English, or dismissed as oiks and chavs from the eastern half of London and beyond in SE England, who pronounce th as f, drop h's and say 'innit' and 'we was like' a lot.

There's still differences between East London (more cockney) and South London (right geezer) Fatiha El-Gourri is a young Hackney comedienne (very E London), compared with say Dinesh Nathan (young south-southwest London, could call it MLE, Multicultural London English) or the older Mark Steel (traditional south London) - loads of videos online but you can't share links to YouTube or Insta etc without sharing your details.

Thank you, that was very informative. I have heard about the sound of Bow Bells.

The flattening of the Docklands: you must have heard the Mark Knopfler song about it. I know I mentioned it to someone on AH

 

[ElectricBlue]

Thank you, that was very informative. I have heard about the sound of Bow Bells.

I'm the son of a true Cockney. My dad was born within the sound of Bow Bells, and was evacuated during the Blitz to the Midlands, where he first saw my mum. It's not often one gets to thank Goering, but that's history for ya.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yep. My Dad (south London but from an East Ham family originally) used to call me a berk when I was a kid and I'd done something a bit daft. If he didn't get it (and he did national service, too, just after WW2 so he was exposed to army slang as well as both Cockney and south London), then it's hardly surprising that Home Counties folk don't know its actual meaning.

Similarly in US slang (occasionally shows up in Australian), "dork" started out meaning "penis" but has become very mild, and I think most who use it have no idea of that origin. Gary Larson (The Far Side) had to remove it from one of his strips because his editor was the one person in the world who still thought it too offensive for print.

 

[XerXesXu]

Berkshire

Pronounced Bark, as in dog, not berk, as in cunt. For our friends over the ocean.

 

[Bramblethorn]

For every British movie and TV show I've seen, I understand almost everything that is said. Maybe Cockney would be a bit more difficult - does that even still exist?

Not Cockney (though geographically close enough for some cross-pollination), but here's one to test you:

In New York, a lot of Yiddish words were well understood by many people, Jewish or not. That is probably starting to fade.

I remember a NY friend being very surprised that I used "schtick" in conversation, but I had some exposure to Yiddish via books and films, and I pick up words quickly.

Actually, speaking of Yiddish, "schmuck" is another of those penis-based insults.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'd say that whilst there was a time when that was true, parts of the world have probably caught up at the least if not overtaken at speed. When I travel around on the Metro in the central European capital where I live there's usually about one obvious book reader per carriage and everyone else has their phone out (which isn't to say they aren't reading a book, of course).

I think on smartphone usage it's pretty much even now, but as a generalisation (with many exceptions) I do find the USA still tends a little bit more insular than the rest of the English-speaking world. Not necessarily in a xenophobic way; sometimes it's just things like watching a bunch of expensively-educated folk talk about why it would make no sense to colour-code banknotes by value, with apparently no awareness that other countries have been happily doing this for decades.

 

[KeithD]

Xenophobia would require attention and effort. Americans are so insular and inward looking because they have nearly a whole continent to themselves (they don't see Canadians as any sort of threat or much different from them. Mexicans and central/south Americans are another matter). They simply don't give the world beyond their region much independent thought. It all comes to them.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Not Cockney (though geographically close enough for some cross-pollination), but here's one to test you:

I remember a NY friend being very surprised that I used "schtick" in conversation, but I had some exposure to Yiddish via books and films, and I pick up words quickly.

Actually, speaking of Yiddish, "schmuck" is another of those penis-based insults.

There was a whole book about Yiddish as used i the United States. The latest edition is already twenty years ago. The original writer Leo Rosten had a number of stories and jokes to illustrate the meanings. I believe one of the words was meh, "an expression of of indifference or of a judgment of mediocrity; a verbal shoulder shrug."

One story as I remember it: an American goes to visit the Tomb of the Unknown Israeli Soldier. The monument has the guy's name, where he born (Poland, think), his civilian occupation (he was a tailor) and other facts.

The American says to the guide, "This guy wasn't unknown; everything about him is on there."

The guide replies, "As a tailor he was known; as a soldier, meh."

https://www.amazon.com/New-Joys-Yiddish-Completely-Updated/dp/0609806920/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2SZ1I5B22J9TJ&keywords=the+joys+of+yiddish+leo+rosten&qid=1685926980&s=books&sprefix=The+Joy+of+Yiddish,stripbooks,84&sr=1-1

 

[HordHolm]

I think on smartphone usage it's pretty much even now, but as a generalisation (with many exceptions) I do find the USA still tends a little bit more insular than the rest of the English-speaking world. Not necessarily in a xenophobic way; sometimes it's just things like watching a bunch of expensively-educated folk talk about why it would make no sense to colour-code banknotes by value, with apparently no awareness that other countries have been happily doing this for decades.

The bank note thing was a real surprise to me on my first US visit. I went with a couple of friends and we would sit in motels wondering why the strongest nation on the planet didn't have the gumption to make different values immediately differentiated by colour, and size as well. It was my friend who spotted how blind people fold notes in a particular way so they can feel what value they have in their hand.

 

[Bramblethorn]

There was a whole book about Yiddish as used i the United States. The latest edition is already twenty years ago. The original writer Leo Rosten had a number of stories and jokes to illustrate the meanings. I believe one of the words was meh, "an expression of of indifference or of a judgment of mediocrity; a verbal shoulder shrug."

Huh. I've encountered that one quite widely online and I use it myself, didn't realise it was Yiddish.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Not Cockney (though geographically close enough for some cross-pollination), but here's one to test you:

How bona to viddy such dolly old eeks!

I followed pretty much all that, partly because lots of the words have been adopted into London dialects, others are still used by older men, but mostly thanks to Julian and Sandy from Round the Horne - classic radio which was turned into theatre shows some years back.

No-one was ever sure if all the polari and double entendres actually went over the heads of the BBC top brass, or if it just gave them plausible deniability for putting filth on radio.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Huh. I've encountered that one quite widely online and I use it myself, didn't realise it was Yiddish.

There probably was a time in New York (and maybe elsewhere) when various immigrant groups like the Irish, Italians, Jews, etc. were so close together that Yiddish spread quite easily. Then comics - Lenny Bruce? - used it in their acts, assuming that people would know what they were talking about.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Hello, i am new here have been publishing alot lately. But had some feedback on grammar and spelling. I use spellcheck and get high 90% but i get feedback particulary from americans is this because i speak/write english 'english'?

Anyone who criticizes you for writing in good British English (I know, it’s just English, I’m writing for a mixed ability audience) is - to borrow a lovely word I learned in London years ago - a wanker.

Just as anyone who criticizes someone for writing in good American English (that does need the qualifier) is an asshat.

Em

 

[HordHolm]

Anyone who criticizes you for writing in good British English (I know, it’s just English, I’m writing for a mixed ability audience) is - to borrow a lovely word I learned in London years ago - a wanker.

So close! It's stupid wanker to the cognoscenti...

 

[EmilyMiller]

So close! It's stupid wanker to the cognoscenti...

Difference between an amateur and a pro, hun .

Em

 

[HordHolm]

Difference between an amateur and a pro, hun .

Em

It's weird how often I fid myself muttering it under my breath on the Metro in the central European city where I now live, despite the fact that probably less than 1% understand it.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It's weird how often I fid myself muttering it under my breath on the Metro in the central European city where I now live, despite the fact that probably less than 1% understand it.

They probably think you are French and saying moins que .

Em