Help me with my commitment phobe

[LadyJeanne]

*tap, tap, tap*

...is this thing on?

Ahem. My name is LJ, and my SO is a commitment phobe. For the past 20 years, his mantra has been, "forever is a very long time..."

Indeed, I agree. It's not as long as it used to be though! At 38, soon to be 39, and 40, neither of us is getting any younger. Neither of us has ever been married.

We have a long off and on history together - friends, FWB, friends, lovers, no contact, friends, lovers, back and forth we go across time and space. This time, things feel right - that whole love, in love, passion, sex, friendship, values, compatibility package is complete.

I know, I know, it's easier to move mountains than to get a commitment phobe to commit, and it would probably take less time. However, I'm afraid we could spend the next 20 years getting to know each other better before he starts considering commitment. And then maybe another 20 years before we actually get married. And you know, I'm sure a wedding at 78 would be awfully sweet, but I want to look really hot in my dress, and he might have a little trouble carrying me over the threshold at 80, so I'd like to nudge that up by a few decades.

Any ideas on how to make this wonderful man just a teeny bit more comfortable with the concept of marriage? Has anyone manged this feat?


Must get coffee. I'll be back in a bit.

 

[EJFan]

is it actually a phobia or is it just an institution that he doesn't believe in? i think your question, desire and concern are all valid but i also think there are various forms of commitment. where, exactly, do your paths part? marriage, cohabitation, monogamy?

my first thought is to identify where you two stop thinking alike, then consider the costs & benefits of whatever the next step up (where your philosophies begin to differ) is. that's about the best i can do off the top of my head (which is very little real estate i'm afraid).

 

[Guest]

 

[LadyJeanne]

is it actually a phobia or is it just an institution that he doesn't believe in? i think your question, desire and concern are all valid but i also think there are various forms of commitment. where, exactly, do your paths part? marriage, cohabitation, monogamy?

my first thought is to identify where you two stop thinking alike, then consider the costs & benefits of whatever the next step up (where your philosophies begin to differ) is. that's about the best i can do off the top of my head (which is very little real estate i'm afraid).

It's not a phobia in the clinical sense. He just doesn't want to end up with the wrong person and regret it once he's in a marriage. He wants to be absolutely sure.

My philosophy is similar, except that I believe there's no sure thing. At some point, you have to make a leap of faith. The more you know a person, of course, the smaller the leap feels.

We agree on monogomy, neither of us into cohabitation, and we both agree that marriage is the most committed commitment...meaning we take it seriously and are reluctant to enter into with rose-colored glasses, because we know people change. We've both been in other relationships where things haven't worked out though they seemed like they would, so that makes us extra cautious.

 

[Guest]

 

[LadyJeanne]

I think there are several different reasons why commitment phobes avoid commitment. Some of them are:

1. They want to keep their options open. This can be anything from career moves to location of residence to relationships. Basicly, if they don't like what's going on in their life, they have the power to change things without the acceptance of another.

2. They fear losing independence. Although somewhat related to #1, I think this is more related to what they do on a daily basis. It's me instead of we.

3. They strongly dislike failure, and with the divorce rate as high as it is, they feel the odds are against them and thus are more likely to fail than succeed. Any they just can't have failure.

4. That "til death do we part" phrase is just too daunting. To some, those words and similar promises are meaningless, but to others they mean a lot. I think that for people that have a strong commitment to keep their word, they take these words very serious, and even if these words are not part of a wedding ceremony, a wedding as we know it implies a "til death do we part" promise.

there are probably more, those those are the things that come to mind.

#1 and #2 are somewhat related because they have to do with a certain amount of selfishness. Are these people really ready to be part of a team?

#3 and #4 are somewhat related because they have to do with uncertainty of the future. But wouldn't it be more fun and exicting to make that journey together?

I think it's a little #2, but mostly #3 and #4.

 

[LadyJeanne]

That's the key. That's exactly what marriage is, a leap of faith. Otherwise, it would be too easy and predictable.

What would it take for him to make that leap of faith?

Catch 22 - he'd make the leap if it were easy and predictable!

 

[EJFan]

It's not a phobia in the clinical sense. He just doesn't want to end up with the wrong person and regret it once he's in a marriage. He wants to be absolutely sure.

My philosophy is similar, except that I believe there's no sure thing. At some point, you have to make a leap of faith. The more you know a person, of course, the smaller the leap feels.

We agree on monogomy, neither of us into cohabitation, and we both agree that marriage is the most committed commitment...meaning we take it seriously and are reluctant to enter into with rose-colored glasses, because we know people change. We've both been in other relationships where things haven't worked out though they seemed like they would, so that makes us extra cautious.

ok... i figured you were using the term in a metaphorical sense but wanted to be sure.

it really seems like you're both on the same page here. the only difference is that he needs more of a "guarantee"... which is the whole point of your question now that i think of it.

this is going to sound stupid but have you considered proposing to HIM?

edit to add: with the right kinda guy you could just drag his ass down to the courthouse and say, "sign this." really though... what does he want? he has to know there's no sure thing here and he has to know by now how he feels. he's got all the information (at least it sounds like it) to make a decision... if he's not deciding it sounds to me like he's not being honest with himself.

 

[LadyJeanne]

ok... i figured you were using the term in a metaphorical sense but wanted to be sure.

it really seems like you're both on the same page here. the only difference is that he needs more of a "guarantee"... which is the whole point of your question now that i think of it.

this is going to sound stupid but have you considered proposing to HIM?

Well, now this is going to sound stupid, but he's a Taurus, as are my dad and sister. A trait that Tauruses have in common is that they are not mutable, suggestible - it has to be their idea or they get stubborn about it. The trick is to get them to think it's their idea...

It's like that comment in big fat Greek wedding.

"I'm the head of the family!" hubby says.

"He may be the head, but I'm the neck," wife retorts.

 

[EJFan]

Well, now this is going to sound stupid, but he's a Taurus, as are my dad and sister. A trait that Tauruses have in common is that they are not mutable, suggestible - it has to be their idea or they get stubborn about it. The trick is to get them to think it's their idea...

well... if this doesn't work out for you, i have a friend who's into all sorts of zodiacal stuff. he's a gemini if that matters.

btw... edited my previous post if you haven't reread it yet.

 

[LadyJeanne]

edit to add: with the right kinda guy you could just drag his ass down to the courthouse and say, "sign this." really though... what does he want? he has to know there's no sure thing here and he has to know by now how he feels. he's got all the information (at least it sounds like it) to make a decision... if he's not deciding it sounds to me like he's not being honest with himself.

I really don't know, EJ. I know he's not into big changes...small, incremental ones are fine. But, for the most part, his life has been relatively the same for a long time...his job, his leisure activities, his friends, his home, his family and responsibilities. He's very stable.

As an example, do you remember that vacation we took to Mexico? Well, we went to the same island, same hotel, same scuba place, his favorite restaurants...it's a place he's been going to for years. He likes to go to new places to dive every now and then, but he keeps returning to Cozumel year after year. He finds a good thing and prefers to stick with it.

Marriage would be a huge change for him, I think. And for that, maybe he needs to see that 'we' would be a good thing to stick to. This could be a long process.

It's exactly what Scaly said - it needs to be easy and predictable.

 

[LadyJeanne]

well... if this doesn't work out for you, i have a friend who's into all sorts of zodiacal stuff. he's a gemini if that matters.

btw... edited my previous post if you haven't reread it yet.

It's not just that...I'm a girl. I want HIM to propose to me because he just can't imagine living without me!

 

[EJFan]

He finds a good thing and prefers to stick with it.

which would explain why he's sticking with you.

if he likes incremental changes, have there been any in your relationship? are there signs of any sort that he's moving forward toward your goal at all?

 

[LadyJeanne]

which would explain why he's sticking with you.

if he likes incremental changes, have there been any in your relationship? are there signs of any sort that he's moving forward toward your goal at all?

Yes. As I said earlier, it's taken us years to get to this point. Over the last year, we've kinda blown the doors off the sexual communication ( ), the emotional intimacy has deepened, and he's so incredibly affectionate and romantic with all the little touching and holding hands and kisses. He's generally reserved - strong, silent type - so I've seen how he's been opening up more and more, and relaxing into it more and more, as we go on.

 

[EJFan]

well... i guess the question really becomes about how patient you want to be. it sounds as though it's safe to assume he's not changing his core values/ways but there's evident progress you can hang your hat on. how long are you willing to wait to get to where you want to be and what can you do to expedite it?

in thinking about it, i'm beginning to wonder if his hangup might not be so much with the issue of marriage but with the issue of changing his daily routine and living space. someone who's a huge creature of habit (like myself) can bristle at the thought of having a permanent roomie... regardless of the amount of love floating around. i mean, there's someone in my shit all the time, their shit and habits get mixed with mine... that's a much bigger stumbling block than the emotional commitment.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

[LadyJeanne]

well... i guess the question really becomes about how patient you want to be. it sounds as though it's safe to assume he's not changing his core values/ways but there's evident progress you can hang your hat on. how long are you willing to wait to get to where you want to be and what can you do to expedite it?

in thinking about it, i'm beginning to wonder if his hangup might not be so much with the issue of marriage but with the issue of changing his daily routine and living space. someone who's a huge creature of habit (like myself) can bristle at the thought of having a permanent roomie... regardless of the amount of love floating around. i mean, there's someone in my shit all the time, their shit and habits get mixed with mine... that's a much bigger stumbling block than the emotional commitment.

You're onto something with the living space thing; that's where the huge change comes in for him. He's been in his house for 10 years or so. He needs to move as his commute takes forever, and he keeps talking about it, but he keeps delaying doing anything because he's got such a great financial thing going on there. Family things have kept him in his area, but those reasons have, one by one, also gone away.

He's also well aware that I wouldn't be happy living there for a number of reasons. Marriage would mean moving, and yes, that's an issue. Me in HIS space would be a problem for both of us, just as he in MY space would be a problem. We would need to move to OUR space, with no pre-exisiting claim of ownership to the space.

So...I talk real estate and property values and location location location and how, if I were buying a house, one of those really amazing showers I see on HGTV would be fantastic for some, ahem, water play ( )..all the things that would make him more amenable to a move...

 

[LadyJeanne]

seems to me like you need to mix up his world a bit. do some things that are unpredictable, not planned in advance.

would you consider this: you plan a weekend away somehwere for the two of you, but it's a surprise for him. make plans with him to stop by his place on a friday evening. when you get there, tell him he has 10 minutes to pack one suitcase (or as an alternative, you could buy him a few few pieces of clothing, the kind of things he likes to wear, and have it already packed) and then it's time to go. don't tell him anything. as long as you have a place to stay, everything else can and probably should come on a whim for the rest of the weekend.

seems his world is too secure, too cozy, and it's comfortable. you need to shake it up a bit and show him what he's missing.

Ahaha! Yes, he likes that about me...and probably scares him a bit. I'm not so predictable, and I'm all about change and diving into the deep end. Not a bad suggestion. Will have to wait until summer's over, though. This fall when he has fewer responsibilities, maybe around my birthday...hmm...

 

[Guest]

 

[LadyJeanne]

got to make sure the shower has more than one shower head. that's the first thing you tell the real estate agent.

Oh, absolutely! Multiple shower heads, a bench, lots and lots of space, and maybe even a mirror that doesn't fog up...dreaming about a skylight in there...

We would soooo be the types to appreciate it to its full potential!

I've told him I'd give up kitchen space for a huge shower and large soaking tub.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

[M's girl]

which would explain why he's sticking with you.

Haha, that's exactly what I was going to say

 

[LadyJeanne]

I think that's interesting. Do you get him to break from his normal pattern of scheduled and planned routine? To try new things? To take a chance?

I try...mostly, it's been me suggesting that he/we go to - fill in the blank place - that he's never been, though I did introduce him to erotic fiction (mine) and toys (which led to him making some suggestions of his own...).

In general, though, my presence in his life is a disruption to his world...slightly out of his comfort zone. I am emotional and he is laid back, and that in and of itself is the biggest thing.

He definitely has his patterns, particularly in summer, of things he does, and if it weren't for me, he wouldn't be likely to try some other options. Is it Thursday? Oh, of course, softball. Is it the weekend, oh, right, the summer cottage.

He's usually happy to do these things with me, but if I left it up to him, we'd be doing the same things over and over. Even something like trying new restaurants - he'd be content going to the favorites, while I like to try new places. I'm all about variety.

Since I've been back here, I'm seeing how we could easily fall into a routine together, but there's so much more out there, and I'm already wanting to mix it up a little. I've suggested a couple of places we can go for day trips or weekend trips this summer, an am running into the brick wall of: well, there's the summer cottage and he needs to go up there to do blah, blah, blah, so, trips are on hold until I can get him out of the familiar groove.