Help for a new Sub

[Aeroil]

And no it's not me, it's a friend who wishes to stay anomyous. She's very new to D/s, and she has been seeing a dom whose been showing her some things, but from some of the descriptions she's been giving me sound very disconcerning, (and yes she is reading the thread). Today, she described how she was not feeling well, and requested that they not do anything. Apparently his responce was to yell at her until she cried, then pick her up anyway, where she again requested not to have a session, which was ignored. Afterwards, he dropped her back off, and drove off without a word, so she's now pretty upset.

*ahem* the question is, is this acceptable behavior? it doesn't sound like it is to me, but I really don't wanna go around giving out relationship advice.

 

[chris9]

For me: no, it isn't!
I don't know if such behaviour becomes acceptable when you are longer into the relationship, but my senses are screaming that this is hardly consense to do something one person doesn't want. Again, I don't know if it would be accepted of the sub to ignore her own well-feeling to serve the dom if he wants a session. But if the sub is new at all this as you said your friend is, some damage can be done and I would expect of a Dom who takes on an inexperienced sub to respect this and not force her.
So, to the anonymous friend: Good luck, I hope you feel better soon!

 

[Seduce]

Not that I am much experienced, but I would suggest she leaves the brute immediately.
He seems to be just inconsiderate sadist and she may get in even worse jam with that sort.
You better tell her to run away while she still can.

 

[chris9]

Not that I am much experienced, but I would suggest she leaves the brute immediately.
He seems to be just inconsiderate sadist and she may get in even worse jam with that sort.
You better tell her to run away while she still can.

Exactly my thinking.

 

[onceburned]

requested that they not do anything. Apparently his responce was to yell at her until she cried, then pick her up anyway, where she again requested not to have a session, which was ignored.

The way you describe it makes it sound as if the session was non-consentual. That is a big red flag, to me. Does she feel as if she consented? Or was she bullied into unwilling acquiesence?

I am wordering about aftercare, as well. Did he simply 'use' her and then leave her on her own? Did he help her to feel safe? Was he touch with her later that day or the next?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Just from what you posted it is difficult to give an answer that I would say is 100% correct. My feelings on it would be that if it were a casual relationship, normally I would think it was pushing it a bit, but then again it is about dominance and control and there has to be a point at which that takes effect and also points where the Dominant uses common sense to gauge a situation. It may be he has had subs tell him they are unwell in the past when really they just didn't feel like it....so to then let it slide sets up a precedence for future behaviour and topping from the bottom.

Most times it is acceptable for the sub to request a raincheck on grounds of not feeling well, then it is the decision of the Dominant as to whether they allow it or push on. Most Dominants who are concerned with the safety and health, and I suspect happiness of their sub, will make another time....but not if they feel it is not necessary. That is not saying your friend was not genuine or that this is the reason he pushed on, just it can be how things are. Add to that Dominants are like the rest of us, human, and can make a bad judgement call from time to time...or maybe he is as the post appears, just a misguided Dominant who could be dangerous because he doesn't care for the welfare of his sub, just his own jollies. Either way, your friend has to decide if this was acceptable and safe for her and act accordingly.

Catalina

 

[Marquis]

Pushover subs. Ruthless Doms.

Somebody pass the vaseline.

 

[YinandYang]

I might be wrong but I am guessing this relationship is in its early days? If that is the case then I would say it is unacceptable behaviour. It takes time and alot of communication to get to a point where the Dom would know the Sub inside out and therefore be able to make overriding decisions. It sounds like she made it pretty clear she didn't want to enter into a BDSM scene, he should have been able to see whether she meant it or not.

Another worrying aspect is, if it is the early days for them, how will his behaviour alter as they get to know one another. In any relationship, in the beginning we all make allowances and perhaps tread carefully into unknown waters so to speak. If he can display his selfishness at the beginning, god knows how he will dispaly it when they are more familiar with each other.

I would be very wary of a Dom that displayed such selfish attitudes, after all D/s relationships are not one sided, if anything more careful consideration and communication is needed than a 'normal' relationship.

My advice? RUN AWAY! (or at the very least establish some very real and concrete ground rules.)

 

[Seduce]

Pushover subs. Ruthless Doms.

Somebody pass the vaseline.

If that story describes what Dom is about, then I am not a tiny little bit submissive at all.
I would get into my car, ran over the brute and drive away without looking back......... only maybe I would stop to cut his dick off and take it as a trophy.
I mean it.

 

[His_pita]

I can't imagine my Dom ever treating me in such a way. We are in a new relationship and he is so sensitive to me and my needs. Never pushing me more then I can take. Always checking on my moods. Right now I have a lot of stress in my life and his support is everything to me.

This girl should get out now. She deserves much better then that.

 

[h_i_s]

For many D/s relationships, judgements can not be based on the amount of time a Dom & sub have known each other, or interacted with each other. For some it's not at all about the 'age' of the relationship. In many cases it all comes down to that couple's definition of the relationship, and the agreements which exist between the two. Many times we run across others whose perceptions and definitions regarding their relationships do not quite match our own guidleines in respect of what is acceptable and what is not. Who can say what is best for any Dom & sub in THEIR relationship, other than either of the two who are actually IN that relationship?

Within a week after meeting, i gave a one time, full acknowledgement of submission and consent to my Dom (now Husband/Master). He was very sweet and far from selfish then, and is still to this day. That is not to be misunderstood though, there have been times when i have felt He has acted a bit selfishly. i submit to Him even when i am not in the mood for play, not in the mood to serve Him, not feeling quite submissive, not feeling 100% well, and am tired. He IS the Master, and as His submissive my role is ALL ABOUT pleasing Him, His wants & desires, & His needs. In our D/s relationship He does have the final say in everything (within reason of course, and barring silly notions such as death etc ... im saying this before someone else decides i need them to point this out to me). He has the final say because i entrusted Him with the power not to abuse this trust. In giving that trust, it was with full acceptance of His ability to make sound decisions. He's a wonderful Master, and from day one, i've had no regrets at all. Submitting to a Dominant to exactly this extent may not be for everyone, it works for some of us though, obviously.

Catalina's thoughts on this pretty much mirror my own. We don't know what the agreement is between Aeroil's freind and their Dom. We don't know what their definitions, guidelines, and dynamics are regarding their D/s relationship.

There's not enough information provided for anyone to offer warranted & fitting advise for your sub friend, Aeroil.

P.S. In the beginning stages of the relationship between my Husband and myself, if i were this sub friend whom Aeroil is seeking advice for, and had acted on some of the advice offered by those ....... (and i'm certain that they all 'mean well' in their opinions expressed) ........... who have posted so far on this thread, ... i'd have missed out on the most stable, responsible, and loving relationships i have ever taken part in. Simply put, i'd have missed out on the most forfilling & happiest times of my life so far, and would have walked out on the only man who has ever shown me endless amounts of care, love, adoration, and what respect is all about.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I agree with cat and sin. There are two sides to this and we dont see the other side. How do we know if said friend doesnt often make excuses for not wanting to submit, or if there are or arent other problems in the relationship. Sounds like just another Dom-bashing thread to me.

 

[rosco rathbone]

There's a time to make people do things they don't want to do. This may or may not have been one of those times.

 

[Aeroil]

I agree with cat and sin. There are two sides to this and we dont see the other side. How do we know if said friend doesnt often make excuses for not wanting to submit, or if there are or arent other problems in the relationship. Sounds like just another Dom-bashing thread to me.

I disagree, it looks like there's some valid advice in here as well.
edit
*ahem* sorry for the initial lack of elaboration, I started this thread because I want to help her, she is a very sweet girl, and I don't want to see her hurt or off-put from exploring submissiveness in case she gets a bad dominant. This wouldn't be the first time she managed to get herself into an abusive relationship, so I'm watching for that.

 

[Softouch911]

We don't know what the agreement is between Aeroil's freind and their Dom. We don't know what their definitions, guidelines, and dynamics are regarding their D/s relationship.

There's not enough information provided for anyone to offer warranted & fitting advise for your sub friend, Aeroil.

QUOTE]

I'm even wondering if the sub and Dom have made their limits clear.

If not, as she wants to stay in the relationship, then they are late in this step.

If so, and he realizes that she means it when she speaks, then he is clearly in the wrong in a most flagrant manner .... I wouldn't think it would make sense to stay in that case.

Finally, nothing is mentioned about a safe word. If they have one, why didn't she use it? If they don't have one, and the relationship is as new as we think, why the hell not?

 

[Shadowsdream]

And no it's not me, it's a friend who wishes to stay anomyous. She's very new to D/s, and she has been seeing a dom whose been showing her some things, but from some of the descriptions she's been giving me sound very disconcerning, (and yes she is reading the thread). Today, she described how she was not feeling well, and requested that they not do anything. Apparently his responce was to yell at her until she cried, then pick her up anyway, where she again requested not to have a session, which was ignored. Afterwards, he dropped her back off, and drove off without a word, so she's now pretty upset.

*ahem* the question is, is this acceptable behavior? it doesn't sound like it is to me, but I really don't wanna go around giving out relationship advice.

"yelling til she cried"? etc. Need more info as to the depth of this relationship before having an opinion that would hold value BUT I do think it is too easy to fall back on she is the sub He is the Dom...submit...when the message begins with She's very new to D/s...and His lack of regard. If any sub came to Me that I "know" with this scenerio My advice would not be suck it up...it would be rethink your choice.

 

[chris9]

...Afterwards, he dropped her back off, and drove off without a word, so she's now pretty upset.

If he was trying to push her limits, stop any topping from the bottom or such as some have proposed, in my opinion this line contradicts it. I agree that when a sub says something on the lines of not feeling well, not wanting... it may be just for a dom to push it and make her submit, but then to drive "off without a word" and leaving her upset doesn't seem the right thing and doesn't seem like he cares for her well-being. And then she should walk out of this relationship, because a dom who doesn't care for the sub should not be trusted.

 

[SweetDommes]

I'm torn on this - we don't know the whole dynamics, as we haven't heard anything but this one story about the relationship ... but cautiously, I would have to say that she definitely needs to say "ok, we have to have a talk about this relationship equal to equal, not sub to Dom ..." and they need to set ground rules that don't seem to be there (as others have said). I also agree with chris that the line about dropping her off without a word shows that he is not concerned with her welfare.

 

[snowy ciara]

*ahem* sorry for the initial lack of elaboration, I started this thread because I want to help her, she is a very sweet girl, and I don't want to see her hurt or off-put from exploring submissiveness in case she gets a bad dominant. This wouldn't be the first time she managed to get herself into an abusive relationship, so I'm watching for that.

Here's my big old red flag right here.

This is going of what you've told us so far, Aeroil, and again, we only know her side so I could be way off here. But...

I don't think the the man is a responsible caring sort of Dominant. You know that the Evil Ex was abusive to me. He was also not a PYL. Your first post could have been written by me shortly after we started having sex. There were times when I didn't want to and begged not to and he did it anyway. Usually in a manner meant to punish me. He also did a lot of guilt tripping, telling me that "you would if you loved me." Apply this to submission and you get a line I got quite often when I was on collarme. I wasn't a "real" or "true submissive" cause I didn't go belly up for the first man who capitalized his name.

I could be reading this totally wrong, of course, not having heard his side of it. But the little voice inside that my shrink has labeled as my good sense is saying something is wrong here, and she needs to (at the very least) have a public meeting with him, in a coffee shop or something, and sit down and have a very serious serious discussion about boundaries and limitations. My good sense is actually screaming "run like hell!!!) here; but I'm not your friend. I know Sinn was able to give her heart and soul to her Master very shortly in the relationship; but it doesn't always work this way. Most relationships seem to take time to get to that point, and he (your friend's Dom, not Sinn's) is really pushing things here.

 

[kerker_miester]

red flag

I by no means am an authority on any subject in bdsm, I can see both sides of the equation as put forth by all. The thing that gives me the red flag is his aparent not caring after the session. I feel it is wrong for a Dom if he feels the need to push his sub's limits to just walk away without caring words of comfort and time for her to know he cares and did what he felt was needed. I do not in any way think it is right to take anyone against their will, but if she consented to be his sub she concented to a certin amount of pushing by him. That in no way gives him right to abuse her either. Well I don't know if I have made my meaning clear but thats the best I can do. I would say watch this guy for he does not seem to care. She may be just another notch on the wall (sad but there are that type out there). thats the gospel acording to kerker_miester

good luck to your friend hope she gets through this with her self in tact.

 

[graceanne]

I agree with cat and sin. There are two sides to this and we dont see the other side. How do we know if said friend doesnt often make excuses for not wanting to submit, or if there are or arent other problems in the relationship. Sounds like just another Dom-bashing thread to me.

But, but, but . . . why can't we bad the dom/me's? It's so much fun! *pouts*

I wish we could ask her some questions, but . . . from what little we know I agree. Sounds abusive. On the other hand, that just might be the kind of dom he is, and they're just not compatable. She might just need someone who's a bit more sensitive. I dunno. I know she's watching this thread, but I have to say this. When people again and again and again find themselves in an abusive relationship, they need some help, because somewhere in they subconsious they're looking for that relatioship. There are tons and tons of reasons why people do that, and I'm sure that catalina could go more into than me. But it normally boils down to low self esteem and that people are creatures of habit. I'd suggest she take a break from relationships for a bit, and get some counseling.

 

[catalina_francisco]

If he was trying to push her limits, stop any topping from the bottom or such as some have proposed, in my opinion this line contradicts it. I agree that when a sub says something on the lines of not feeling well, not wanting... it may be just for a dom to push it and make her submit, but then to drive "off without a word" and leaving her upset doesn't seem the right thing and doesn't seem like he cares for her well-being. And then she should walk out of this relationship, because a dom who doesn't care for the sub should not be trusted.

Once again, we don't have all the facts so it is difficult to assess the situation, but if it were a case of pushing her because he believed she was up to it, finding she actually was (and some Dom/mes would say she obviously was physically okay and the emotional was a reaction to being dominated and not let off), then leaving as he did may just be a means of punishment and emphasising what he expects in terms of submission. As we know, everyone has their own slant on it, and for some it is a matter of submitting only when they want and to things they find easy....if he wants the opposite of this it is not going to work. He may intend giving her time to think and then contacting her to discuss what happened and why. His actions may be kind in that they remind her what she wants or warns her she may be getting in over her head. And yes, he just may be hardassed and arrogant. The key is communication on what both expect and are willing to commit to. It always seems to come down to that in difficult moments.

Catalina

 

[serijules]

I know Sinn was able to give her heart and soul to her Master very shortly in the relationship; but it doesn't always work this way. Most relationships seem to take time to get to that point, and he (your friend's Dom, not Sinn's) is really pushing things here.

Thank you for mentioning this. There are always exceptions for every situation, but meeting someone and submitting to them in the first week and having the relationship actually continue as a healthy, safe one is rather rare. Sinn may be an exception to that, which is wonderful, but I definately would not use that single instance as a basis for saying that it is generally safe or wise to do such a thing, especially when it results in the submissive feeling insecure and disrespected enough to not trust to talk about problems with her partner.

Aeroil...the fact that your friend has to come to you or a message board to discuss these problems is a big red flag in and of itself. If she was in a secure and comfortable relationship, she would likely be discussing these things with her Dom, not a bunch of strangers. Asking for advice or reassurance is fine, but my opinion is that in a healthy relationship, the dominant is a part of that process and someone that the submissive can turn to for advice and reassurance as well. Either he isn't there for her in that capacity, or she isn't allowing him to be.

edited to add...

There is a time and place for hard ass lessons and whatnot, but my opinion is that the softer, more reasonable and understanding side has to come first. I have no respect for "hardass doms" that expect results or punish for behaviour that they did not take the time to teach their partner first. If he handled the situation the way he did (from what we know) because he intended to teach her that what she wants is not a priority over his, and to punish her for reacting as she did...then he needs to communicate and teach those intentions and make sure she understands them first. Subs are no more mind readers than doms are, and you can't expect someone to learn a lesson from something when you don't take a realistic approach on teaching it. That kind of lesson learning and teaching works for people that have a hell of a lot more experience with each other and with D/s than these two seemingly have.

It's really hard to give any solid advice without knowing a lot more info, but based on what you've told us and assuming that her interpretation of the situation is accurate and not based solely on her emotions, that is my take on it. There are always two sides to the situation, but being you are asking based on that info, that is what I'm answering based on.

 

[Netzach]

Doesn't sound like the healthiest of scenarios, especially in a fairly new relationship. It's not to say that this kind of thing is not within the right of a Dominant, it's not to say that this kind of thing is wrong in any given scenario, it just sounds like it's totally the wrong tactic applied to your particular friend.

Simple enough: if a relationship is not making you happy, get out. If it's not giving you more than it's subtracting, it's not good.

Sinn and catalina -- while you may or may not submit "whether you feel up to it" I'd argue that overall, you are extremely happy with the parameters and the nature of your relationships. You're confident in the decisions you made. I would argue, as serijules did, that if this person was happy and confident in her decision she would not be soliciting advice or overly upset.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Doesn't sound like the healthiest of scenarios, especially in a fairly new relationship. It's not to say that this kind of thing is not within the right of a Dominant, it's not to say that this kind of thing is wrong in any given scenario, it just sounds like it's totally the wrong tactic applied to your particular friend.

Simple enough: if a relationship is not making you happy, get out. If it's not giving you more than it's subtracting, it's not good.

Sinn and catalina -- while you may or may not submit "whether you feel up to it" I'd argue that overall, you are extremely happy with the parameters and the nature of your relationships. You're confident in the decisions you made. I would argue, as serijules did, that if this person was happy and confident in her decision she would not be soliciting advice or overly upset.

LOL, I wish I were that good but I often need reminding of what it is I want when I am not feeling 100%. I do not advocate it for all, or for many in fact, but we may be doing a disservice in that this may have been made clear in the beginning and agreed upon.....I have known of more than one time it has happened this way and then the submissive has had a bad day and declared they did not realise the Dominant was serious when they agreed to those terms and they should be able to decide if and when and to what they submit....and it is equally possible we are doing the submissive a disservice as we still do not have all the facts (reminds me of another thread which took on this life with part of the story and no offer to expand, but asking advice....it is difficult as it makes everyone have to guess and assume which most of us do not like doing). Why do we let ourselves get drawn into these type situations?http://www.smilies4you.de/content/sonstige/a39.gif

http://www.smilies4you.de/content/sonstige/b3.gifAnyway, like you say, if you are not happy (seriously and not whimsical on a particular day) you get out which is why I mentioned in my first post that she needs to decide if she feels safe and this is acceptable behaviour to her and act accordingly. That really is the bottom line because no matter what was agreed upon, what was understood or not, this does not sound like a TPE relationship and thus leaves the door open to moving on with no need to feel guilty.

Catalina http://www.smilies4you.de/content/sonstige/a84.gif