health and the bdsm fetish

[fulvius]

I would like to start a thread on the health aspects of being someone drawn towards all things BDSM. It is an issue I am struggling with myself. Specifically, I would like to invite discussion on where and how to draw the line in the face of lust and on what constitutes SSC - not just what has already been said, but new ideas as well. With regards to photographs, this may mean avoiding certain publications, even if they could be considered SSC by some. Paintoy, for instance, is rather different than Hogtied. Compare also the Insex material with the german slave sex series. Are they all SSC? If so, what isn't?

I need help coming to terms with desires fuled by fantasies of nonconsent, rape, or torture in the face of my morality - this is something many people struggle with, and the discovery of good safe, sane, consensual bdsm can be a godsend for folks who struggle with desire. For the first time, men and women who have been ashamed of their secret yearnings to be controlled, bound or tortured, enslaved, and raped, or the opposite, can discover that these urges can be healthy and natural, and that they can be satisfied in a healthy way.

The reconciliation of lust with morality, sex with good health, and hygeine, is an ancient topic. I am young and relatively inexperienced with regards to BDSM in person, but I have been looking at internet pornography for more than ten years now, and as someone who participates in the scene from that end, I must share that I experience a variety of uncomfortable feelings with regards to the way I react to both real and fantasy scenes and stories of rape, sexual slavery, and especially torture.

For the young and computer-savvy, the internet does indeed make available dangerous material that is not consensual, not safe, not sane -- sometimes, it is mixed in with consensual and sane photography, and one never knows what one will see until the image shines upon the screen. I speak from experience when I testify that at times, even the thought of truly NON-SSC material can inspire vivid feelings of lust, uncertainty, guilt, trauma, and even pleasure.

It is easy to say that BDSM is either safe, sane, and consensual, or it's not - and that real abuse, slavery, and assault have nothing to do with BDSM, and that the desire to see real rape, real torture, or snuff is not the same fetish as BDSM, and that such desires are unhealthy while a love of BDSM is healthy -- but my personal experience says that this is only sometimes true. While I want to believe that there is always a line or litmus test between what is consensual and sane and what is not, such a line is one that only humans draw, or fail to draw, themselves. In moments of lust, stirrings deep within me can not always tell the difference between what is healthy and what is not, what is desirable, and what is trash; what brings life and what brings death. And sometimes, when I see a conflict between my morals and my insistent curious desire I make a choice where my morality trumps my lust. Sometimes, I cohose the other way, and my lust trumps my morality, and I later pay the price with psychic tears of blood. Safe and sane can be matters of opinion at times, as much as we all wish that wasn't true. A frat boy's drunken score can be a girls' drunken rape. Abuse of the unwilling can feel good, or so I'm told, and that dosen't make it right. Submission of the willing can be painful, so I'm told, and does that make SM wrong and bad? Certainly not for everyone, surely not for me?. Consensual -- this can be a grey zone, for some, but not for others. How do we draw the line, and where? How does one who lusts for things that hurt stay safe, stay healthy, sane? Suggestions? Comments?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Seems very broad in terms of what you want to discuss. I don't think any one person can decide what is SSC or not, though governments with little or no real knowledge take the liberty of doing so. I am also not a fan of censorship, especially to the extremes most are subjected to in these times. Yes, some young people may stumble across stuff they shouldn't and not have the maturity and knowledge to handle it correctly, but that is no reason why the rest of the adult world should be denied exercising their right to enjoy adult material which they may be quite capable of enjoying safely.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/214/445100642_86ac67f384_s.jpg Catalina

 

[CutieMouse]

How do we draw the line, and where? How does one who lusts for things that hurt stay safe, stay healthy, sane? Suggestions? Comments?

For me, it boils down to choosing a Lover with the utmost care, caution, and concern, with whom I am as well matched as possible, and never going outside of that singular relationship. It also means I am responsible for educating myself prior to "dangerous" activities (essentially knowing everything possible to make a sane "risk assessment"), and expecting the same attention to educational detail from my partner... for example, even if my Lover begged to be sounded, I'd not do so until I'd been taught to do so by an experienced mentor. I'd expect a similar level of responsibility from my Lover, for any "edgy" activity preformed on myself.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I don't want to get into a censorship or SSC debate . I relish the freedoms to explore , I also believe SSC only relative in context to each of us as individuals.

However parts of fulvius's post resonated with me. I'll sight an example from just two days ago. I was looking for a very specific form of erotic image that is not overly 'mainstream' even within a BDSM context. I decided to to try a different search engine and moved from Google to Ask.com . Scrolling down the 2nd page of general BDSM imagery with no success was a Hentai drawing depicting an act of pedophilia. I couldn't shut down the page fast enough. I was reviled and a little shocked if I am to disclose completely. I will not be using that search engine again. My reaction based on my personal belief system as to online resources was to withdraw. My point is sometimes the best reconciliation is rejection itself . You're an adult , if it poses issues to your core then remove yourself.

 

[Netzach]

There's vanilla porn made under unfair labor conditions, under compulsion, under duress, not ethically. Just sayin'.

 

[fulvius]

online images

Yes, rebecca has touched on one aspect of it, absolutely. You never know exactly what you are going to see when you click a link on the internet, until it comes up on your screen.

I have noticed that the climate of the internet has gotten a bit more dangerous in the last couple years. I believe that images such as the one rebecca saw and worse are a much greater danger to children than chat predators, although responsibility must be taken on all sides to treat the issues with justice and compassion.

The real question, is what if something that you didn't want to see still turns you on?

I like the advice about finding one lover and sticking to it. Perhaps I should join the trusty hogtied webring again and trust them for all my bdsm pornography. They have always been satisfying and also very safe and consensual. A real life lover would be wonderful hehe

Well - what do people think about the borderline zone? What do you do if you are getting pleasure from something you know is wrong? BDSM is not the only arena that this can happen in; cigarettes for example. What happens if safe sex seems like it saps the fun out of it? What are the most healthy ways to practice and explore that carry as much punch as the risky side of things, is the question. If one finds unhealthy things stimulating, is that an illness? If so, what is the cure?

Thank you all for your participation!

love,
kevin

 

[FurryFury]

If you see something that you feel is wrong but it turns you on anyway then as long as you keep in in fantasy land I'm fine with that.

Provided you do not financially or otherwise support the people who make non consent, snuff and/or child porn, (actual, not fake), and the like, then I don't have a problem with it. If it stays a fantasy who does it hurt?

Fury

 

[fulvius]

support

I would never do that, but - it can hurt ME. Even if you don't financially support the stuff, it still hurts you and is wrong to look at it. I guess I am talking about in general, for bdsm, how do you stop when it starts to look like it's going too far. I have trouble with self-control, I guess is the problem.

Fake or artistic nonconsent/pedo/snuff can also be damaging to the viewer, even if it isn't morally wrong. Some would say it is. where do you draw the line and what techniques can one use to stay safe in the face of lust? And why would things that I think are wrong turn me on?

 

[FurryFury]

I don't agree that it hurts me to, well I don't generally look at porn at all cause that's not my thing, but to think about or even role play "sick stuff."

I don't know why things you think are sick turn you on and I don't know why, for years that was the same thing for me. I do know I wasted a lot of years condemning myself for what was essentially part of me.

I have pretty good self control. I mean my ethics and morals will be upheld by me almost always. I grew up being very different and very restrained due to religion so I know how to tow the line but what your soul needs that can't be torn out of you. It will resurface over and over again in your mind even if you do nothing about it and as long as you do nothing about it, I have come to accept it as okay.

I used to think that it was a sign of me being sick and possibly needing help. I yearned for the sort of soul that enjoyed the slow mo run into each other's arms in a field of daisies. Or a mind that could get off by not thinking about humiliation and degradation but about "love" or just feeling sensations and not thinking at all.

I struggled with that for decades. Then I shared some of my "terrible" fantasies with others and instead of calling for the men in white coats or shooting me outright, they were turned on too.

Shortly after that I became liberated from my self loathing, at least to a certain extent and; BONUS, even more sexual. But that's just me. It may not apply to anyone else. Guilt rarely does a body good, I always say.

I can even do some aspects of what I crave without guilt or compromising my values while other things must remain in my head and/or writing only.

I wish you well in coming to terms with yourself far sooner than I did..

Fury

 

[catalina_francisco]

Bottom line is you can't expect to go through life without ever being confronted by something that is going to upset or harm you in some way, that is unrealistic and idealistic. Sheesh, you only have to turn on the news or pick up a newspaper to see and hear things which can make you weep in grief, sick to the bottom of your stomach, overcome with hopelessness, or filled with enough rage to want to do something which can make a real difference. It is life and if you are going to continue to live, you learn to deal with it without calling in the moral police to protect your sensibilities.

Catalina

 

[SweetErika]

I don't agree that it hurts me to, well I don't generally look at porn at all cause that's not my thing, but to think about or even role play "sick stuff."

I don't know why things you think are sick turn you on and I don't know why, for years that was the same thing for me. I do know I wasted a lot of years condemning myself for what was essentially part of me.

I have pretty good self control. I mean my ethics and morals will be upheld by me almost always. I grew up being very different and very restrained due to religion so I know how to tow the line but what your soul needs that can't be torn out of you. It will resurface over and over again in your mind even if you do nothing about it and as long as you do nothing about it, I have come to accept it as okay.

I used to think that it was a sign of me being sick and possibly needing help. I yearned for the sort of soul that enjoyed the slow mo run into each other's arms in a field of daisies. Or a mind that could get off by not thinking about humiliation and degradation but about "love" or just feeling sensations and not thinking at all.

I struggled with that for decades. Then I shared some of my "terrible" fantasies with others and instead of calling for the men in white coats or shooting me outright, they were turned on too.

Shortly after that I became liberated from my self loathing, at least to a certain extent and; BONUS, even more sexual. But that's just me. It may not apply to anyone else. Guilt rarely does a body good, I always say.

I can even do some aspects of what I crave without guilt or compromising my values while other things must remain in my head and/or writing only.

I wish you well in coming to terms with yourself far sooner than I did..

Fury

No, it's not just you. From what I know of myself and have heard from others, it's very common to find a higher level of sexuality and liberation after we accept and share facets of our true selves. I've found namely Lit, but a few other places as well, to be an excellent tool in that regard.

And I wanted to say that even if the OP doesn't find him/herself sooner than you did, this post touched me, and I bet others will find something special about it as well.

 

[FurryFury]

No, it's not just you. From what I know of myself and have heard from others, it's very common to find a higher level of sexuality and liberation after we accept and share facets of our true selves. I've found namely Lit, but a few other places as well, to be an excellent tool in that regard.

And I wanted to say that even if the OP doesn't find him/herself sooner than you did, this post touched me, and I bet others will find something special about it as well.

Thanks SweetErika for your post.

Fury

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I don't really understand where the OP is going with this. I would conjecture that the majority of the web sites depicting BDSM acts are compensated models, who have their age verified to the best of the site producers' abilities. (I know the US based ones have strict guidelines.)

But basically as far as the acts go, if you see something you do not like, click close. I have come across shit that I do not want to see, and can't click out fast enough, and often clear my browser history right after.

If it makes you feel uncomfortable, it is your duty to yourself to click off of it.

 

[fulvius]

duty to click close

Yeah - MasterPhoenix, you are absolutely correct, that is what I should do and will do from now on

-- but you still saw it.

I guess it brings up the question of the internet, maybe this is the reason for the "anti-obscenity" laws that have spread through the amateur pics board.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yeah - MasterPhoenix, you are absolutely correct, that is what I should do and will do from now on

-- but you still saw it.

I guess it brings up the question of the internet, maybe this is the reason for the "anti-obscenity" laws that have spread through the amateur pics board.

I prefer to not have a government body telling me what I can and can't see, especially given they see it first and it presumably doesn't harm them for all eternity, so why then do they assume it is going to harm the rest of us and should be banned. Wouldn't it be much better if they spent more time pursuing and looking into real acts of crime such as the Virginia massacre, murder, rape, kidnapping, assault, domestic violence, robbery etc., than wasting time and money on trying to stop people getting their jollies in ways which harm no-one else including themselves?

Catalina

 

[FurryFury]

Yeah - MasterPhoenix, you are absolutely correct, that is what I should do and will do from now on

-- but you still saw it.

I guess it brings up the question of the internet, maybe this is the reason for the "anti-obscenity" laws that have spread through the amateur pics board.

Here is an idea, set your browser screens and settings up as if you were a minor. Also you can now pay for a "sanitized" connection to the internet from christians who are concerned over these things. Enjoy. Remember when you can't open a site or see things and wonder why, that's why and it was your choice to censor your own connection.

You can also, until the law suits stop it buy sanitized movies.

What joy!

Why bother with making difficult choices or with self restraint! Let someone else make these sorts of decisions for you, for a fee. No personal growth or conflicts required.

Fury

 

[SilkVelvet]

BDSM is still seen by many health organisations and governments around the world as a mental illness, a paraphilia. Homosexuality used to be viewed as a mental illness too, but thankfully times have changed. I think it is up to us, collectively, to pressure our own countries to get the status of BDSM changed.

The problem is, that governments seem to want to curtail our choices and control our lives in ever more restrictive and conservative fashion. Making people give up hand guns did not reduce the number of gun-related murders in the UK. Making us get identity cards will not reduce terrorism just make criminals a lot of money supplying forged documents. Brits are the most watched on CCTV nation in the world and police here are able to use data from cellphone providers as evidence in court to pinpoint a suspect at the geographical co-ordinates where the crime was committed.

Outlawing BDSM related images would not have any effect on the numbers of murders or paedophiliac abuse in the UK because there is no evidence to suggest that they are linked at all. There is a period of consultation going on I believe at the moment. If the prudes get their way it would be illegal for even a married D/s couple to take pictures of each other at play and store them on their own PC for their own use.

I guess we just have to stick up for ourselves and our kink !

 

[fulvius]

SilkVelvet - although I'm a native of Colorado, I have always admired Britain for the civilization we posess. The way you speak of law has a powerful ring to it. But those of us who feel deep within that there is right to be found in nontraditional sex must respect also the privacy and beliefs of those who wish to preserve the traditions of romantic wholesomness, and the traditions of safe sex.

I am a Libertarian, and I agree that sexual ethics is not the domain of governmental and legal control - it is a powerful responsibility that a man or a woman can take for their self to stay true to their ethics, and never compormise what they consider to be safe sex - for if we don't feel safe and loved when we are in the throes of greatest pleasure, how possibly can a healthy society be sustained?