He Fought For Our Country ... But He's Not Worthy.

[zeb1094]

HE FOUGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY ... BUT HE'S NOT WORTHY. @ Boortz.com

http://boortz.com/images/pappy_boyngton.jpg

His name was Gregory Boyington. Some called him "Pappy." He served as a combat pilot in World War II with the 1st Squadron, American Volunteer Group. This squadron was known as the Flying Tigers of China. Boyington later served as a combat pilot for the U.S. Marine Corps. He commanded Marine Fighting Squadron 214. Perhaps you've heard of this squadron. It was called the Black Sheep Squadron and was later featured in a TV series called "Baa Baa, Black Sheep." Boyington shot down 26 Japanese aircraft while serving in the Pacific. He was later shot down and spent 20 months in a Japanese POW camp. For those of you who aren't up to par on World War II history, Japanese POW camps were not happy places. Torture .. .and we mean real torture, not stripping them naked and taking snapshots. After the war Pappy Boyington was awarded the Navy Cross and the Medal of Honor. He died in 1988. You can visit his grave in Arlington National Cemetery.

Education? Oh yes! Almost forgot! Pappy Boyington was a graduate of the University of Washington. Just recently the idea of erecting a memorial to this Medal of Honor winner at the University of Washington made its way to the student senate. Here you have an alumnus who served in World War II. was captured and held, and was later awarded the Medal of Honor and the Navy Cross. Perhaps some sort of monument would be a good idea!

Well .. not to Jill Edwards. Thanks to the folks at WorldNetDaily we can show you a copy of the minutes of a meeting of the student senate at the University of Washington. Under old business there was a discussion of a resolution calling for a tribute to Pappy Boyington. Student senate member Jill Edwards immediately moved to table the resolution. She wanted other issues to be considered. Another member said that the issue was at the top of the agenda and should be dealt with. Jill's motion failed, but she wasn't through. There was then some discussion on why Andrew Everett, another student senate member, wanted the memorial. Everett responded that Colonel Boyington "had many of the qualities the University of Washington hoped to produce in its students." Well, I guess that might be true, if leadership and courage are considered to be good qualities. Anyway ... that's when Jill Edwards spoke up and showed her true colors. She questioned whether it was appropriate to honor a person who killed other people. Then the lovely Jill Edwards said that a member of the Marine Corps was not an example of the sort of person the University of Washington wanted to produce.

Shall I repeat that? Jill Edwards, a Junior in Mathematics at the University of Washington, says that a U.S. Marine is not --- that's right, NOT the example of the sort of person that the University of Washington wants to produce. Let's let this sink in. To all of you men and women out there who have served with pride in the United States Marine Corps; to those of you who fought in World War II, Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East, Jill Edwards, student senate member at the University of Washington, thinks that you are unworthy to be graduates of the University of Washington. My father was a Marine. He's buried in the National Cemetery at Ft. Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas beneath a grave market that reads "Neal A Boortz, Sr. Lt. Col. USMC. World War II, Korea, Vietnam." Therefore, I think that Jill Edwards is an ignorant fool. I would submit that Jill Edwards is an embarrassment to the University of Washington. With her mathematics degree and her leftist outlook on life my guess is that she'll end up being a teacher in a government school. Oh goody.

By the way .. there's at least one more moonbat on the U of W student senate. Her name is Ashley Miller. Ashley says that there are already enough monuments at UW commemorating "rich white men." Well .. I guess you have to get that wealth-envy stuff in there somewhere.

Don't you just love these young people? They're so much fun to watch during those magic years when they know everything and when they have all of the answers to every problem facing mankind. As I said the other day, we should take 100 volunteer members of university student senates from across the country --- and let's make sure Jill Edwards is one of them --- and give them a country to run for four years. Haiti would do just fine.

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Pappy was also a Native American (Cherokee I believe).

 

[drksideofthemoon]

HE FOUGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY ... BUT HE'S NOT WORTHY.

And what's your point? Two people have differing opinions...so what?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

It's sad that people like these, enjoy the freedoms they have, because of people like Pappy boyington, and seem unable to understand they owe a debt to them. They aren't wrothy of curses, or hatred. They are just pathetic. Yet somehow, I can't even pity them.

 

[zeb1094]

And what's your point? Two people have differing opinions...so what?

No point! Maybe I should have added a poll!

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Yeah, well, I'd like to see how long that country remained in the hands of Ms. Edwards, after she refused to keep up an army for its defense! It reminds me of what George Orwell said. "Men sleep peacefully at night, because others are prepared to do violence on their behalf." Happy nightmares, Ms. Edwards!

The very notion that a college should be ASHAMED because one of its alumni protected the rights of its students (freedom ain't cheap, after all) to protest is sickening. News flash, Miss Edwards! The world isn't going to turn into some utopia, just because you lay down your arms. That's a one-way ticket to life under foreign occupation. The enemies of America are not going to sit there and sing "kumbaya" with you. They ARE going to send you to a gulag for criticizing THEIR heroes: whomever those might be!

 

[drksideofthemoon]

It's sad that people like these, enjoy the freedoms they have, because of people like Pappy boyington, and seem unable to understand they owe a debt to them. They aren't wrothy of curses, or hatred. They are just pathetic. Yet somehow, I can't even pity them.

Yes, I do agree that it is sad. She is entitled to her opinion though, whether we agree with it is an entirely different thing.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Yes, I do agree that it is sad. She is entitled to her opinion though, whether we agree with it is an entirely different thing.

No one disputes that. However, I would hate to see this become the official policy the UW student senate.

 

[Stella_Omega]

No one disputes that. However, I would hate to see this become the official policy the UW student senate.

It didn't, so don't worry about that.
This is an inflammatory rhetorical article, Zeb, about an incident in a student meeting.
They're students- get it?

Boortz spends a lot of time digging molehills up to make right-wing mountains out of.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

No one disputes that. However, I would hate to see this become the official policy the UW student senate.

I seriously doubt that will be the case, she is but one person. In the "article" you will notice that another student was in support of the idea.

Mr. Boortz is a bufoon whose only purpose in life is to try to inflame people. And from the looks of it, he is generally successful.

 

[3113]

The world isn't going to turn into some utopia, just because you lay down your arms.

Quite right. I mean, when has non-violent protest ever changed anything? I mean, there was that movement in India that kinda worked...oh and that one in the south....

Look, guys, I know that war is war is war and you're not going to stop a war mongering country by sitting in peaceful protest. And I know all about the great drama and heroism that war affords. But let's keep in mind that there are Marines who fought for their country, got suck in a P.O.W. camp, got metals...and then went on to burn crosses on people's lawns. There are Marines who fought for their country, got stuck in P.O.W. camps, go metals...and then went on to be drunks, wife beaters, serial killers.....

Being a Marine, going to a P.O.W. camp, getting metals DOES NOT instantly make you a role model for future generations. It doesn't give you a "get-out-of-jail-free" card for the rest of your life.

Now, I'm not saying Pappy did any of those things. But what I'm seeing here is not really "news." Jill was over-ruled, she didn't even make a dent in the motion. All you're saying is that you're really pissed at how this mathematics professor in Maine thinks. Your post, however, that long rant about how Marines are role-models, implies that ANYONE who thinks like this under ANY circumstances is screwy. And as I pointed out at the start of this...that's not necessarily true. Under certain circumstances, killing people is the wrong way to get freedom, democracy, etc. And peaceful protest is the right way.

There is courage in war. It's to be greatly admired. But it's not the only kind of courage there is. I don't know the full argument here, but maybe all Jill was trying to say--and sadly, was very badly mistaken, or said it poorly--was that the University had honored many soliders, and maybe it was time to honor some other profession, like a doctor or a peacekeeper. Or maybe she was being stupid. Not being there, I can't judge. How many soldiers from how many wars has U.M. honored? Maybe that's the only type of person they've ever honored. If that's the case, then her objection maybe understandable.

Were you there at this discussion? Do you have an exact transcript of what she and others said? Or did this report--reported however it was (unbias?) just push one of your sacred buttons and cause you to go off into this rant? I don't mind rants. I go off on them myself. I have my sacred buttons, too. But this seems to be more about your anger at ANYONE who who disrepects soldiers and Marines for ANY reason...than against one teacher in Maine who said something stupid. And that's got me worried. This tempest-in-a-teapot should not be used as a springboard for a flag-waving rant against anyone who thinks that war MIGHT NOT be best solution to certain problems.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I think Jill was a brave young woman who dared to stand up for her belief that you shouldn't honour someone for having killed a lot of people.

To me, all wars are nothing but failure, and anyone fighting in a war, be it for "honour" or "democracy" or whatever he or she believes in, will become a murderer.

This whole "for our country", "for AMERICA", this whole patriotism thing... I don't agree with it. The glorification of war, of soldiers, as heros who die for a noble cause... the other side of the penny shows the same men blowing the brains out of other men, in different kind of uniforms, who have wives and children and mothers back home.

If you call American soldiers heros because they fight for what they believe in, then you should, by the same logic, call the enemy soldiers heros too, because they're also fighting for what THEY believe in. Vice versa, if you call them terrorists for killing Americans, then you must also call yourselves terrorists, for killing them! One size fits all...

And no, it's NOT a different thing. Killing other human beings, for whatever reason, is wrong. Even killing in self-defense, necessary as I confess it could be, is killing, and therefor morally wrong.

And I agree with Jill; it's nothing to honour, that a man killed a lot of people. And I certainly hope that ALL the universities of USA will try to produce skilled men and women whose major isn't Professional Mass Murdering 101.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Quite right. I mean, when has non-violent protest ever changed anything? I mean, there was that movement in India that kinda worked...oh and that one in the south....

Look, guys, I know that war is war is war and you're not going to stop a war mongering country by sitting in peaceful protest. And I know all about the great drama and heroism that war affords. But let's keep in mind that there are Marines who fought for their country, got suck in a P.O.W. camp, got metals...and then went on to burn crosses on people's lawns. There are Marines who fought for their country, got stuck in P.O.W. camps, go metals...and then went on to be drunks, wife beaters, serial killers.....

Being a Marine, going to a P.O.W. camp, getting metals DOES NOT instantly make you a role model for future generations. It doesn't give you a "get-out-of-jail-free" card for the rest of your life.

Now, I'm not saying Pappy did any of those things. But what I'm seeing here is not really "news." Jill was over-ruled, she didn't even make a dent in the motion. All you're saying is that you're really pissed at how this mathematics professor in Maine thinks. Your post, however, that long rant about how Marines are role-models, implies that ANYONE who thinks like this under ANY circumstances is screwy. And as I pointed out at the start of this...that's not necessarily true. Under certain circumstances, killing people is the wrong way to get freedom, democracy, etc. And peaceful protest is the right way.

There is courage in war. It's to be greatly admired. But it's not the only kind of courage there is. I don't know the full argument here, but maybe all Jill was trying to say--and sadly, was very badly mistaken, or said it poorly--was that the University had honored many soliders, and maybe it was time to honor some other profession, like a doctor or a peacekeeper. Or maybe she was being stupid. Not being there, I can't judge. How many soldiers from how many wars has U.M. honored? Maybe that's the only type of person they've ever honored. If that's the case, then her objection maybe understandable.

Were you there at this discussion? Do you have an exact transcript of what she and others said? Or did this report--reported however it was (unbias?) just push one of your sacred buttons and cause you to go off into this rant? I don't mind rants. I go off on them myself. I have my sacred buttons, too. But this seems to be more about your anger at ANYONE who who disrepects soldiers and Marines for ANY reason...than against one teacher in Maine who said something stupid. And that's got me worried. This tempest-in-a-teapot should not be used as a springboard for a flag-waving rant against anyone who thinks that war MIGHT NOT be best solution to certain problems.

Boyington won the CMOH. There have only been 3400 odd of them awarded. They are awarded for exceptional heroism and gallantry. Honor, courage and self sacrifice, thankfully, don't go out of style. And they remain, traits worthy of admiration.

Boyington was no alter boy. He was an alcoholic, a brawler, and had, at times, a less than rosey disposition. He was also a hero, to this nation, in a war where there were definte good guys and bad. It was a war the US entered only after being attacked. It was a war against evil. If any war could ever be rightly characterized as such.

That there are people now, who like the girl in this story, don't recognize what millions sacrificed, to keep them free is just sad. If it weren't for the neville chamberlins who think like she does, Germany might have been contained, the holocaust might never have happened, the rape of nanking might have been prevented, the Bataan death march might not have occured, etc.

I should pity her. Those who don't recognize what price has been paid for their benefit are poor in spirit. I don't though. I'm not able to be that charitable. So here's to hoping she wins herself a darwin award in the near future and imporves the gene pool.

 

[zeb1094]

Well as one of my "Hero's" I just thought it was such an injustice by this individual, who in all liklyhood, didn't even know who "Pappy" was. The old saying would apply here, "Engage brain before opening mouth to insert foot!"

This man fought for our freedom, the freedom to make posts just like this one. I to served my country. Was I in a war zone, No! Would I have went if ordered? You're damn right I would. If I was younger than I am now, say 20 - 30 years, I would be the first in line at the recruiting office.

And true it's her opinion and I will defend, with my life for her right to it, I also have an opinion and a right to express that opinion, that she is a buffoon and knows not of what she speaks.

 

[zeb1094]

It didn't, so don't worry about that.
This is an inflammatory rhetorical article, Zeb, about an incident in a student meeting.
They're students- get it?

Boortz spends a lot of time digging molehills up to make right-wing mountains out of.

I know what it is and where it came from. I knew exactly what I was doing.
I know exactly what and who Mr. Boortz is and what he likes to do.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Well as one of my "Hero's" I just thought it was such an injustice by this individual, who in all liklyhood, didn't even know who "Pappy" was. The old saying would apply here, "Engage brain before opening mouth to insert foot!"

This man fought for our freedom, the freedom to make posts just like this one. I to served my country. Was I in a war zone, No! Would I have went if ordered? You're damn right I would. If I was younger than I am now, say 20 - 30 years, I would be the first in line at the recruiting office.

And true it's her opinion and I will defend, with my life for her right to it, I also have an opinion and a right to express that opinion, that she is a buffoon and knows not of what she speaks.

Indeed. Most times, tyrants do NOT bend to the likes of Gandhi. The Mahatma was lucky that the Brits had a conscience. Otherwise, he would have been killed at some point. The fact is that people, even those who decry soldiers as "murderers" and "terrorists", owe the fact that they are able to say such things freely to the soldiers that they hate so much. Pacifism has never worked and never will work. As Lancelot told Arthur in the movie "King Arthur", "Arthur, you fight for a world that will NEVER exist. There will ALWAYS be a battlefield."

I stand firmly behind the men and women, such as my own brother, who are willing to risk their lives to stand in defense of this nation and our freedoms. It's easy to sit there in a neutral country and damn soldiers, especially for someone for whom such things are purely abstract and who have never seen a shot fired in anger. It is easy for those who take their freedom for granted to dismiss the dangers faced by the policemen and soldiers who protect their own country. That is especially true if their previous posts demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of what individual freedom truly is.

"I would rather that you just said 'thank you', and went about your business. Either that, or pick up a gun and stand a post. Either way, I don't care." from A Few Good Men. Jessup may have been a villain, his character had a few good points.

I end this with one last quote.

"I was once asked what the difference was between a civilian and a citizen. I know now. A citizen has the COURAGE to make the safety of the human race their PERSONAL responsibility." Starship Troopers

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I like what Voltaire said. "I disagree with what you have to say, but I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT!" That quote always puts things back into perspective for me. It sums up my attitude about the matter VERY well.

 

[zeb1094]

I like what Voltaire said. "I disagree with what you have to say, but I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT!" That quote always puts things back into perspective for me. It sums up my attitude about the matter VERY well.

Yes is does and has always been my very favorite quote. It is why I joined the service when I did, at the height of the Viet Nam war, even though my number was 365 at the time.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Yes is does and has always been my very favorite quote. It is why I joined the service when I did, at the height of the Viet Nam war, even though my number was 365 at the time.

Well, thank you, sir, for doing your part to defend this country.

 

[zeb1094]

Well, thank you, sir, for doing your part to defend this country.

I thank you but your thanks are not necessary, I did my service with honor and my thanks was the great nation I served.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I thank you but your thanks are not necessary, I did my service with honor and my thanks was the great nation I served.

Well stated, Zeb.

 

[gauchecritic]

Well, I can't be arsed to trawl all the way through all the minutes for the last umpteen meetings and I suspect that there is a reason for such a poor link.

Then the writer gives, what I presume is, a link for Jill Edwards mail addy. something smells here.

There was apparently a 'discussion' of the original motion as to motive of proposer. Not a single word of the disussion is quoted except a quote by Everett and then a paraphrasing of Jill Edwards (I assume paraphrasing because it's not a direct quote.)

I think I may have to waste some time (which I won't be getting back obviously) in searching out the minutes.

Propoganda, don't you just love it?

 

[zeb1094]

Well, I can't be arsed to trawl all the way through all the minutes for the last umpteen meetings and I suspect that there is a reason for such a poor link.

Then the writer gives, what I presume is, a link for Jill Edwards mail addy. something smells here.

There was apparently a 'discussion' of the original motion as to motive of proposer. Not a single word of the disussion is quoted except a quote by Everett and then a paraphrasing of Jill Edwards (I assume paraphrasing because it's not a direct quote.)

I think I may have to waste some time (which I won't be getting back obviously) in searching out the minutes.

Propoganda, don't you just love it?

Here ya go, found them right off, no problem!

Minutes

 

[rgraham666]

Zeb, please don't link all leftists with this idiot.

I know of Pappy Boyington, have for years. I've read his biography. I've also read Saburo Sakai's, who was the top ace in the Japanese Navy. I recall that he and Pappy became friends after the war.

I have a high admiration for both of them. Along with Heinz Guderian, Erich von Manstein, as well as Zhukov and Chuikov. I admire anybody who is a competent soldier and is willing to die for what they believe in.

And I'm a 'leftist'.

Ms. Edwards is a mathematician, fercrissakes. She deals in an airy fairy world for a living. She's going to have airy fairy ideas of how the world should work. And she lost.

But please don't link me with this over-educated fool.

 

[dreampilot79]

There are lots of reasons why "Pappy" Boyington should be considered a hero and revered as such.

He was one of the great fighter tacticians of WWII, perhaps because of the tutledge of Claire Chenault and the flying tigers (technically a mercenary group). He was the leading Ace of the Marine corps and more than that, he was a great leader of combat flying. The black sheep squadron was not the collection of screw ups that the tv show portrayed... but they were people stuck in the reserve pool, who could have been stuck in the South Pacific indefinetely. Boyington somehow broke the Marine Corps rules and managed to turn this group of reserve pilots into an official squadron. Something that had never before or since been done. Then he turned this group into the leading squadron in the Marine Corps.

There are also lots of reasons why "Pappy" should NOT be revered. When the flying tigers were to be incorporated into the Army Air Corps.... Boyington stole an airplane and flew off to re-join the marine corps rather be attached to the Army.

His drinking and brawling were legendary. More than once he was charged with being drunk while on dubty.

He was given the nation's highest medal... and then thrown out of the Marines for drunken conduct.

After the war for many years he made his living by refereeing professional (???) wresteling. The only thing that saved him from poverty was the book he was credited with writing (ghost written in reality) about his war time exploits which was later made into a movie and a TV series.

The very pilots that idolized him during the war from VMF 214 nearly lynched him in the early 1980's for his portrayal of them.

He died of cancer nearly pennyless.

I had the great fortune to have met Mr. Boyington and I found him brash, but sober.

The man represents both the best and the worst of the Marine Corps. His exploits are exemplary.. but the man himself is far from a role model and probably not one to be held up by the University of Washington... but NOT for the reasons experssed by the student senate.

 

[zeb1094]

Zeb, please don't link all leftists with this idiot.

I know of Pappy Boyington, have for years. I've read his biography. I've also read Saburo Sakai's, who was the top ace in the Japanese Navy. I recall that he and Pappy became friends after the war.

I have a high admiration for both of them. Along with Heinz Guderian, Erich von Manstein, as well as Zhukov and Chuikov. I admire anybody who is a competent soldier and is willing to die for what they believe in.

And I'm a 'leftist'.

Ms. Edwards is a mathematician, fercrissakes. She deals in an airy fairy world for a living. She's going to have airy fairy ideas of how the world should work. And she lost.

But please don't link me with this over-educated fool.

Rob, don't worry a bit! I link no one with anything. Your safe with me. It was her that anything I may have said was directed and only her. Along with the other idiots in that meeting who hadn't a clue what they were talking about.