Have you ever considered that God and Lucifer are actually

[Frimost]

Just another bitter broken marriage and that they hate each other so much because they are ex-lovers and we (mankind) are just the little children in the way that they are bickering over in a custody case?

I wonder who is the man and who is the woman in that case though, any guesses?

 

[punkrockpoet]

y'know, if i had a two more hours and a bottle of beam i would take up this duscussion....

 

[CAROSI]

I've always pictured the two of them sitting back with the beverage of choice laughing as if this was a huge chess game for them. Each with an infinite number of moves and each with the power to wipe the board clean at any moment.

 

[Frimost]

Or perhaps

Maybe the Devil and God are both the same entity and are puny little understanding of the nature of deities dose not allow us to accept the possibility that someone so wise and kind can also be so terrible and cruel. Therefor, our morally principled logic dictated that they must be two separate beings instead of one multi-faceted, complicated, and moody one.

 

[punkrockpoet]

Job

hey Frimost...

ever read the Book of Job?

its pretty funny. depicts God and Lucifer as just kinda hangin out bullshitting. check it out.

 

[cymbidia]

Today is just a daydream
Tomorrow we'll be castaway

It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong among the gods and goddesses; we are mortals and, so, not privy to thier secret loves and quarrels. What matters is that we live well and love while we can, while we're here. Tomorrow will unfold regardless of our questing after answers to that which is thier concern.


(They're sisters, i think, and currently intent on destroying each other cuz one stole the others favorite blue sweater, then washed and shrank it...so the first took the second's favorite jeans in retaliation...and now they've begun to scream and shriek and grab at perfume bottles and stockings...it'll be shoes next, watch and see...)

 

[Frimost]

Or..

Id Hell really IS supposed to be a lying, confusing, maddening place then why would their leader be so well known to us? If subterfuge and sneakiness are evil and were invented by the original corrupting behavior of the devils of the elder night (the first rebellion) than wouldn’t the true masters of hell be shadowy players behind the scenes that we are currently completely unaware of (by their own design, after all, knowledge is power).


ALSO, f you read high magic knowing the name of a demon gives you some power over it so what possible purpose could Satan have for revealing himself to us if her were the true master of hell, real good strategy there bud!

 

[punkrockpoet]

huh?

right now my brain is looking for a stapler so my mouth won't say anything. luckily my fingers still work

 

[Frimost]

The again

Hell is supposed to be organized chaos with a loose and competing hierarchy structure formed in direct opposition to Heaven's. In that case, besides the supreme being (whether that title be Emperor, Prince, King, or President) there are also cabinet ministers but instead of being in charge of agriculture and education like our nation’s are they are in charge of promoting specific sins. Maybe Satan is actually a peeon and a mid-level manager type at best who is in charge of propaganda or better yet, taking credit for other people's accomplishments (like being the Lord of all the infernal kingdoms)!

Besides, don't the books call him the "Prince of Darkness" and not the King, Khan, Pope, Ayatollah, Emperor, or Head Honcho of Hell? lol

 

[punkrockpoet]

addendum

Frimost, you also forgot that some books call him "Jesse Helms"

 

[Frimost]

And that's the bottom line because I said so

I had friends that used to call Bill Clinton the devil...But personally I have a hell of allot more respect for Satan that to degrade him by comparing him to Slick Willy! lol

If your gonna do something make sure you do it right! Scary and powerful beat pathetic and sad anytime of the week in my book!

 

[Frimost]

My thoughts

Personally I think the devil is just a puppet, a decoy, a figurehead, the public face for mankind’s derision standing in place of the real powers that be that are much more elusive, sinister, sneaky, and far more dangerous. These darker entities remain cloaked in deception and hidden in the shadows, anonymous to our understanding of them.

Or, perhaps the devil is merely a representative of Hell for Earth their spokesman to mankind, like the equivalent to Hell’s ambassador to this planet. Perhaps each planet in the galaxy has it’s own equivalent, and that each Galaxy has a sort of district manager who supervises the planetary ambassadors and that there is also boss to them as well. Maybe they follow an officer ranking or a business or administrative structure.

Then again, surprise surprise-Maybe BOTH God AND the Devil are “good-guys”. Perhaps Lucifer never betrayed god and there was never a rebellion of if there was it was all faked by God with the Devil in cahoots to weed out traitors from the inside in a sting type operation. Maybe Lucifer is such the good little boy that even now he is taking one for the team in a fight for the greater good by earning mankind’s enmity and derision in order to help God weed out unworthy souls and that the two never parted ways and never had a falling out with each other in the first place. In the end Satan may give the Nelson laugh to all the Devil worshippers as God gives him a big hug and pats him on the back for a job well done! It’s kinda like 1984, that dude that lead the dissidents was working for DA MAN all along! Boy would he have earned that right-hand spot by God’s side to allow a zillion years of character assassination and besmirching of his persona in order to give God a helping hand in filtering out the crap in mankind and the other angels, but then again, would be that be expected of God’s favorite angel, for such loyalty to by synonymous with such selfless action in Gods service and our own behalf whether we know it or not? It does make sense when you think about it.

 

[cybergirly]

Re: My thoughts

Personally I think the devil is just a puppet, a decoy, a figurehead, the public face for mankind’s derision standing in place of the real powers that be that are much more elusive, sinister, sneaky, and far more dangerous. These darker entities remain cloaked in deception and hidden in the shadows, anonymous to our understanding of them.

Or, perhaps the devil is merely a representative of Hell for Earth their spokesman to mankind, like the equivalent to Hell’s ambassador to this planet. Perhaps each planet in the galaxy has it’s own equivalent, and that each Galaxy has a sort of district manager who supervises the planetary ambassadors and that there is also boss to them as well. Maybe they follow an officer ranking or a business or administrative structure.

Then again, surprise surprise-Maybe BOTH God AND the Devil are “good-guys”. Perhaps Lucifer never betrayed god and there was never a rebellion of if there was it was all faked by God with the Devil in cahoots to weed out traitors from the inside in a sting type operation. Maybe Lucifer is such the good little boy that even now he is taking one for the team in a fight for the greater good by earning mankind’s enmity and derision in order to help God weed out unworthy souls and that the two never parted ways and never had a falling out with each other in the first place. In the end Satan may give the Nelson laugh to all the Devil worshippers as God gives him a big hug and pats him on the back for a job well done! It’s kinda like 1984, that dude that lead the dissidents was working for DA MAN all along! Boy would he have earned that right-hand spot by God’s side to allow a zillion years of character assassination and besmirching of his persona in order to give God a helping hand in filtering out the crap in mankind and the other angels, but then again, would be that be expected of God’s favorite angel, for such loyalty to by synonymous with such selfless action in Gods service and our own behalf whether we know it or not? It does make sense when you think about it.

That was Anne Rice's take on things. The Devil is the one who thought mankind should be allowed into heaven, God did not agree and after the whole "fight" casts Satan out of heaven and tells him he can not return untill all of mankind is fit to be brought into heaven. He spends the rest of eterninty trying to make mankind worthy of heaven. I love that book, she flipped it making "Satan" Mennoch, the good guy and making God the uncaring figure head.

 

[Unclebill]

The best explanation I can offer is they're both creations of the imagination of men who use them as a source of power to influence or direct the lives and efforts of other men. But, then, I rely heavily on logic and reason and not much on superstition or mysticism.

 

[bluntforcemama]

... are jealous, pimpled adolescents who can't decide if they want the top or the bottom bunk?

 

[Sillyman]

I wonder if Frimost is suffering from Uncle Bill syndrome.

 

[mistressastra]

Growing up Catholic, I was told that Satan was a child of God who rebelled and was punished, not by being destroyed, thus sparing us ages of grief, but by being banished to Earth. So we get fucked up while those two battle over all our souls with all manner of torture.

The way I see it (and believe), I am the one bullshitting as someone put it so politely lol, with my own "gods". We are equals.

 

[p_p_man]

I've always considered God...

a schizophrenic who, during the early years which were 'recorded' in the Old Testament, had left behind his medication...

ppman

 

[Siren]

My thoughts exactly Sillyman

 

[mistressastra]

Anyone read the book, Inferno? I think it was. All about Hell being a series of circle kingdoms, with the worst being in the center and the limbo worthy being in the outer rings. Some humans had to find their way out of Hell, meeting people like Hitler and others. Fun book.

 

[Demian]

yes and no

or, er....

 

[cymbidia]

Re: The again

<snip>besides the supreme being (whether that title be Emperor, Prince, King, or President) there are also cabinet ministers but instead of being in charge of agriculture and education like our nation’s are they are in charge of promoting specific sins.

Which sins? From which religion(s)? From what point in time?

Human conception of "sin" has varied so widely across the centuries and through cultures; who gets to choose which sins deserve cabinet level posts and which can be handled by relatively minor functionaries?

And how do we know which are which?

I suppose murder, just plain no-frills murder, would be a cabinet level post for someone cuz that's been a pretty serious sin pretty much across the board. And i'm thinking that if they take that "adultery" sin thing seriously in Hell, then there's a shitload of us who're gonna be in trouble if it's been determined Down There that on-line fucking is the same as skin-to-skin fucking in terms of penalties.

 

[Frimost]

something I found fascinating

There was this web-site that was a comprehensive guide in alphabetical order of all the major devils in Hell with a description, profile, and various comments on their habits, moods, or personality of them. It was like a dictionary of Hell, or some infernal encyclopedia or famous persons..err, I mean famous demons.


One of the surprising things was the prominence of some relatively obscure devils over that of much more publicly known infamous ones. For example, a devil named Beleth unknown to common knowledge is said to command a staggering 85 Legions while the much more famous Astaroth controls 40 Legions. Another heavy-hitter, Asmodeus, controls 72 Legions, and while that is a whole lot Belial is alleged to command 80 Legions. Or how about Bitru, he controls only a few less legions than Asmodeus does at 70 Legions yet I had never even heard of his name until then.