Have the Brits become as wacky as the Americans?

[Pure]

What do you think. Is it shades of Ashcroft or a genuine issue?

What's to be done when an 'overage' model looks to some, as underage? How does she look to you?

see video clip at
http://cmmnews.blogspot.com/



8am

Shower gel ad a source of concern

Mark Sweney
Wednesday October 25, 2006

MediaGuardian.co.uk

Cussons Original Source: the shower gel's TV ad attracted 29 viewer complaints

A television ad for PZ Cussons Original Source shower gel has been banned by the advertising watchdog for featuring a naked woman in a sexual pose who appeared to be under 16.

The TV ad showed the young woman - who is in fact of adult age - naked for only around two seconds but nevertheless attracted 29 viewer complaints.

Complainants objected that the ad, created by BDH TBWA, was offensive and inappropriate because the model appeared to be under 16 and was shown in a sexually provocative way.



In its defence PZ Cussons said the ad was intended to represent the naturalness of the product and that the question of how old she looked was entirely subjective.

The company added that they had taken care not to cast a more voluptuous model so that the ad would not have sexual overtones.
Furthermore, the company said it had taken into account the Independent Television Commission's research into 'nudity within advertising' that suggested it was mostly suitable for nudity to appear in advertising for bath and shower products.

PZ Cussons moved to re-edit the ads so that the model was seen only from the shoulders up after it began to receive complaints.
The Advertising Standards Authority ruled that viewers were likely to view the model as a young girl and considered that the combination of nudity and the stylised shots used were likely to be seen to have sexual overtones.

On this basis the ASA upheld viewers' complaints, concluding that the ad was likely to cause widespread offence.
· To contact the MediaGuardian newsdesk

 

[oggbashan]

Since I can't see the model, I can't comment.

Og

 

[TheEarl]

I actually have some of that shower gel.

To be honest, I didn't think the girl looked underage at all. Dangerously skinny, yes. Underage, no.

The Earl

 

[3113]

From that picture you presented, yes, she could be 14. But we're back to that interesting delemma....

If a girl past puberty is still underage and illegal, then does that mean that you can't have images of any mature woman who looks underage and illegal...and who is going to judge?

She doesn't look like a child, but yes, she does look young.

 

[TheEarl]

From that picture you presented, yes, she could be 14. But we're back to that interesting delemma....

If a girl past puberty is still underage and illegal, then does that mean that you can't have images of any mature woman who looks underage and illegal...and who is going to judge?

She doesn't look like a child, but yes, she does look young.

Reminds me of the 'damning' evidence in the Michael Jackson case. Police found pornographic magazines in his house that showed overage women dressed up as schoolgirls and cheerleaders. <gasp>

Men are genetically programmed to be attracted to young women. It's one of those things.

The Earl

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Geez, if that commercial had run in the US the viewer complaints would have been in the millions, instead of 28 complaints.

That said...She does appear rather young but I'm an old man so to me a 40 year old woman looks rather young, *shrugs shoulders* and although I didn't think the pose was all that suggestive to some it might appear to be.

 

[R. Richard]

From that picture you presented, yes, she could be 14. But we're back to that interesting delemma....

If a girl past puberty is still underage and illegal, then does that mean that you can't have images of any mature woman who looks underage and illegal...and who is going to judge?

She doesn't look like a child, but yes, she does look young.

There are laws in the US against both using underage performers in porn films and also against using adults to act as if they are underage performers. Who is going to judge? Why, the crusading DA who is going to clean up the town and then run for Governor/Congress/President/All of the forgoing.

 

[Liar]

I know both 14 and 25 year olds who look like that. Can't say that I thought 'jailbait' when I saw it. More like 'Skinny chick, naked, under a lemon tree, in the jungle. Does lemons grow in the jungle? And why naked? That's just tacky.'

 

[Pure]

some of the US 'child porn' laws read that the person in the photo is under 18 or *depicted as being* under 18. indeed i heard of some disclaimer--actually a friend saw it--that said something like, "all models at this site are over 18 and are represented as such."

in a story, of course, we're into an even grayer area, e.g., "small breasted with a very childlike look."

i would not have said the model looks 15, merely that she could be 15 or 17, but equally 18 or 20. maybe she should have said, "i don't look my age, but the reason i'm 20 and look sixteen is all those lemons in my shower gel."

 

[oggbashan]

UK majority for consent is 16

Please remember that in the UK the age of consent for heterosexual sex is 16.

Despite Literotica's rules, any story about 16 year olds, or pictures of 16 year olds would be legal in the UK.

18 year olds have the vote and can buy alcohol with no restrictions whatever. Being 21 means little in the UK except for some heavy vehicle driving licences.

Og

 

[wazhazhe]

The TV ad showed the young woman - who is in fact of adult age - naked for only around two seconds but nevertheless attracted 29 viewer complaints.

Complainants objected that the ad, created by BDH TBWA, was offensive and inappropriate because the model appeared to be under 16 and was shown in a sexually provocative way.

Naked? I guess, but you can see more than that at just about any beach or swimming pool. I still don't see anything sexually provocative.

I think Zeb is right that there would be millions of complaints if the ad aired in the US but it wouldn't violate any laws if it did.

 

[Tuomas]

I think we should allow for the fact that this was published in The Guardian....

Other than that, I would like to bring up a refrence to Freud for all those who saw the girl as 16-ish. That is what you wanted to see, not what was there Which means you are really sick, and should seek professional help immediately.

 

[Pure]

by my count, there are 24 states in the US where the 'age of consent' is 16. BUT i'm not sure that such a law applies to a picture of a girl/woman in an ad, nor that it would apply to a girl/woman in a film (be it sexy mainstream, softcore, or hardcore).

i believe for the sexual content, the FEDERAL law is trying to set 18 as a lower limit for photos and films. notice that this means that a film of what's legal (i.e., a legal sex act) in half the states, is illegal.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

So, what if a 12-year-old dresses as and looks like a 23-year-old? Because I know a lot more of those than the other way around...

 

[kendo1]

The age of consent in Khazakstan has been raised to 8yo.

Models can do topless photos at 16 in the UK.
It's much the same in the rest of Europe.

 

[Boxlicker101]

by my count, there are 24 states in the US where the 'age of consent' is 16. BUT i'm not sure that such a law applies to a picture of a girl/woman in an ad, nor that it would apply to a girl/woman in a film (be it sexy mainstream, softcore, or hardcore).

i believe for the sexual content, the FEDERAL law is trying to set 18 as a lower limit for photos and films. notice that this means that a film of what's legal (i.e., a legal sex act) in half the states, is illegal.

A 16 year old boy or girl in a porn movie, either soft or hard, would be illegal. However, in a sexy movie it should not be. There are many movies around suc as "Pretty Baby" or the movies made by the young Brook Shields, "Lolita", and probably some others if I thought harder about them.

 

[Pure]

note to lauren, note to Box

Lauren//So, what if a 12-year-old dresses as and looks like a 23-year-old?//

P: That doesn't matter and is not a defense in the US (in the laws of its various states), generally. There is limited scope for 'honest mistake' in sexual relations.

Apparently there is sometimes exception where the accused can claim 'due diligence,' i.e. they did everything a reasonable person would do to ascertain the age (but were still hoodwinked).

There is NO scope, in US federal law for such exceptions in pornographic depictions. (But I think in practice 'due diligence' is going to have to count, i.e. if the movie maker asked for a birth certificate and was given a false one.)

Hence all the 'classic' Tracey Lords movies in her early days (at age 16, which she lied about) are now illegal in the US.

In this present British case, it's pushing it to say she acted as if 15. Indeed her talk wasn't 'teen talk'--like, ya know, he goes....
---

Note to Box: given some of the laws already drafted and passed, i would not be so sure that "Pretty Baby" could pass muster (i.e., if a new film were made, of that sort). The COPA legislation on the internet speaks of 'material harmful to minors.'

 

[Boxlicker101]

I didn't vote at first but now I have. The British are nowhere near as whacko as the US on the subject. In England, the age of consent is 16. In the US, it's different ages in different places. In most of the country a person can get married at 16, but it is illegal for that person's spouse to have sex with him or her, if the spouse is an adult. I can't imagine that law being enforced, of course, but if they had sex before the wedding, the spouse could be prosecuted.

As for the model in the commercial and her "nudity": I wouldn't call that nudity; she keeps herself covered at all times. She is skinny, but I would guess her to be around 16. If she looks younger but is actually old enough, it should be okay.

In the first segment of "The Green Door" the actress says she is 12 years old and looks it and acts it. I would assume she is at least 18, though, because she 69's with her co-star. In another porn movie, the man seduced a girl who said she was 15 years old but was obviously older.

I saw some of the early Tracey Lords movies. By no stretch of the imagination were those kiddieporn.

 

[Pure]

there is some puritanical streak in the Brits, which got 10 times worse in the ones who came to America. this fascination with men's mistresses, whores, etc. it's just a weird exaggeration of Xtianity as to *suspicions* about pleasures, esp. sex.

the shower get thing is emblematic. it's a sensual thing. so it's suspicious. (after all, people probably stroke themselves in the shower).

 

[emma72]

I actually have some of that shower gel.

To be honest, I didn't think the girl looked underage at all. Dangerously skinny, yes. Underage, no.

The Earl

I love that shower gel, I used Original Source products alot and the girl is very pretty and it is a pity the ad has been taken off. She does look too thin naked though. Here in the UK there is a drive against very skinny models. I think people
are concerned with the obsession with body weight in the media with celebs and people like Nicole Ritchie, Lindsey Lohan, Sienna Miller, Victoria Beckham and Kate Moss being image role models for teenagers.
On the one hand we have an increase in obese children but we also have an increase of eating disorders, body obssessed women trying to conform to this thin chic.

 

[Pure]

let's start a salma hayek and kate winslett fan club!

 

[emma72]

let's start a salma hayek and kate winslett fan club!

I have friends with little girls, they all fear for them because the pressure for them to be slim, to exercise and were sexy clothes is hugh on them from the age of 10. I have been in shops where I have seen pre-pubescent friends buying thongs. One friend solved it by getting her girls into horses and it worked well.
They are between 17 and 15 now, a healthy weight, naturally pretty but not obsessed with their appearances either.

 

[emma72]

let's start a salma hayek and kate winslett fan club!

For the teenagers; Charlotte Church, Emma Bunton, Colleen McCouglin etc.
All curvy, pretty, successful and photogenic too.

 

[Just-Legal]

let's start a salma hayek and kate winslett fan club!

I love Kate Winslet!

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure
let's start a salma hayek and kate winslett fan club!

I love Kate Winslet!

Both of these women are really beautiful and sexy. I remember seeing TV ads for "Bridget Jones's Diary" and thinking what a sexy woman the star was. Later, I learned that she was portrayed as disgustingly fat. I coud hardly believe it.