Has this case made any national attention?

[Wildcard Ky]

Please check out the link. This is a case that's going on in my area. I've never heard anything about it except for local coverage.

IMO this case has major implications in Gay rights and hate crime issues. To me, it could set a bigger precedent than the Matthew Shepard case. I can't believe it's not getting more widespread attention.

The defense claims he had the right to kill the gay man for making a pass at him. He says he felt threatened by rape, and in this state, killing an attempted rapist is self defense.

For what it's worth, I used to work with the victims father.

Here's the link.

News Enterprise

 

[ABSTRUSE]

That's the first I've heard of that story and I'm sick now. So you have the right to kill someone, but to stuff their body in a piece of luggage and throw it in a river?

I feel so sad for the family.

 

[SadieRose]

It's hard to say from that report what the situation was.

If the defendant was on the verge of being physically raped then I would say go for the rapist with all guns blazing.

But if, on the other hand, the remark about liking young guys was made light-heartedly and with a casual touch, then how the fuck does anyone have grounds for using 'fatal force' (evil terminology!)


It's like taking a knife to someone in a bar because they touched your ass, you might stamp on the fucker's foot, but you wouldn't kill him!

S

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Hmm, sounds like a male version of a girl I used to know that we called the "Huggy Monster", wonderfully affectionate and gave hugs to everyone on the planet male or female. He picked the wrong guy to do it to and the guy unable to cope (Joe-style uncomfortableness versus genuine homophobia) panicked and went apeshit on him, went oh fuck, and ran.

Doesn't sound as full-on hate crime as Matthew Shepard, but more personal misunderstanding gone horribly horribly wrong. The defense lawyer sounds like he's twelve degrees of slimeball though.

Also, I can see it becoming a dangerous precedent case if the wrong decision is reached, but nothing more than a justice is served blahdeblah if the right one is.

But I suppose all cases are like that.

 

[shereads]

Haven't heard a word. I wonder how many women have gotten away with killing or maiming a male acquaintance because they felt threatened that they might be raped.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

It's hard to say from that report what the situation was.

If the defendant was on the verge of being physically raped then I would say go for the rapist with all guns blazing.

But if, on the other hand, the remark about liking young guys was made light-heartedly and with a casual touch, then how the fuck does anyone have grounds for using 'fatal force' (evil terminology!)


It's like taking a knife to someone in a bar because they touched your ass, you might stamp on the fucker's foot, but you wouldn't kill him!

S

Some people would. A guy like Joe would do it. Same with amicus. There's a shitload of guys who would use violence in a situation like that.

Hell, there's a shitload of guys who would use violence for "looking the wrong way" or "pride". This is so far above that, that some people might even think themselves justified for going apeshit over what was little more than a pass.

It's stupid, but it's common.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Haven't heard a word. I wonder how many women have gotten away with killing or maiming a male acquaintance because they felt threatened that they might be raped.

I had the same thought run through my mind.

Jeezus, I mean the poor guy was 6ft and 125lbs, my son could take him down easily, was he that threatening?

 

[Wildcard Ky]

In my opinion, it was a full out hate crime. I think this Cottrell kid lured Phillips into the motel room to kill him because he was gay.

I think the whole rape thing is just a cover story. Phillips was the touchy feely type, was openly gay, and was a flirt. There's no way Cottrell didn't know he was gay.

If any of you want to follow the case through, just bookmark the front page of the newspaper link in my first thread. It will probably be the lead story every day until the case is over.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Thanks for sharing it WK.
If we forget to check, will you keep us posted please?

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Will do.

 

[shereads]

Hate crime laws are a separate issue to me. Murder is murder, and hate isn't necessarily a nastier reason to take a life than being afraid mom will write you out of the will. I've never been comfortable with the idea that a key issue in a criminal prosecution might be what the perpetators were thinking and feeling when they dragged the victim behind their truck. It's hard enough to prove a crime beyond a reasonable doubt without needing to prove that the killer was a bigot.

In a case like this, for example, it sometimes backfires when a jury gets the idea that the crime on trial isn't murder but homophobia. A few sympathetic ones on the panel may be all it takes to get an acquittal.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

In my opinion, it was a full out hate crime. I think this Cottrell kid lured Phillips into the motel room to kill him because he was gay.

I think the whole rape thing is just a cover story. Phillips was the touchy feely type, was openly gay, and was a flirt. There's no way Cottrell didn't know he was gay.

If any of you want to follow the case through, just bookmark the front page of the newspaper link in my first thread. It will probably be the lead story every day until the case is over.

As much as I hate to get on the side of these fuckers who I've had the unsurpassed honor of being in the targeting scope many a many fucking times before (something about a sheepish big guy draws em like flies), I'm willing to give him a little shred of doubt. Knowing that Phillips was gay is different than Phillips hitting on him.

But maybe in your area you have more information. How long did Cotrell and Phillips know each other? Did Phillips reveal to his buddies that he thought Cotrell was cute? If this was Cotrell's first meeting Phillips' flirt side, then it was probably a case of panic that went to far, if not then you're right.

But the chance of learning something relevant like that is probably nil.

 

[shereads]

So if a woman is date-raped she should kill him. She'll be treated more fairly in the legal system and the press than if she just has him arrested for date rape.

 

[KarenAM]

My sense of this is that the rape claim is rather suspicious. To kill a rapist in self-defence is one thing. But to kill and then stuff the body in a suitcase and throw it into a lake smacks of premeditation to me. And if the additional charges of first-degree robbery and tampering with evidence are proven, it makes the self-defence claim even more questionable.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

So if a woman is date-raped she should kill him. She'll be treated more fairly in the legal system and the press than if she just has him arrested for date rape.

I don't know about other places, but Ky law has provisions of killing an attempted rapist as self defense.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

But maybe in your area you have more information. How long did Cotrell and Phillips know each other? Did Phillips reveal to his buddies that he thought Cotrell was cute? If this was Cotrell's first meeting Phillips' flirt side, then it was probably a case of panic that went to far, if not then you're right.

But the chance of learning something relevant like that is probably nil.

I had to do a little checking on this. It seemed as if I remembered relatives and friends of Cottrell saying that it was premeditated. It took me a bit to find it, but here it is.

Josh Cottrell's aunt and cousin told police that Cottrell told them he had planned to kill Guinn "Richie" Phillips because Phillips was gay. Relatives said Cottrell strangled Phillips after Phillips made a pass at him in an Elizabethtown motel where Cottrell was staying, according to documents filed in Breckinridge Circuit Court.

Courier Journal

Note the words "planned to kill". The article is from August of 2003.

The whole motel thing is a bit fishy too. The murder was in Hardin County, Cottrell is from Breckinridge county. It takes about 1/2 hour to get from Breck to Hardin co. Why did Cottrell have a motel room if he lived less than 1 hour away?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I had to do a little checking on this. It seemed as if I remembered relatives and friends of Cottrell saying that it was premeditated. It took me a bit to find it, but here it is.

Josh Cottrell's aunt and cousin told police that Cottrell told them he had planned to kill Guinn "Richie" Phillips because Phillips was gay. Relatives said Cottrell strangled Phillips after Phillips made a pass at him in an Elizabethtown motel where Cottrell was staying, according to documents filed in Breckinridge Circuit Court.

Courier Journal

Note the words "planned to kill". The article is from August of 2003.

The whole motel thing is a bit fishy too. The murder was in Hardin County, Cottrell is from Breckinridge county. It takes about 1/2 hour to get from Breck to Hardin co. Why did Cottrell have a motel room if he lived less than 1 hour away?

Ah, totally premeditated then. Ignore everything I said and let him swing.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Just giving an update. The trial was given to the jury at about noon today. The jury is given the option of murder, a few different degrees of manslaughter or acquittal.

The defense has based all of it's case on Phillips making an agressive pass in the motel room. Cottrell testified in his own defense. He claimed that Phillips made a pass at him, and they got into a fight. Cottrell says that he won the fight, and Phillips was laying on the floor very much alive. Cottrell told Phillips to get his stuff and leave. Then Cottrell left the room to go down the street to get something to drink.

Cottrell claims that when he got back to the room, Phillips was dead. Cottrell says he panicked, stuffed the body in a suitcase, drove to the next county and dumped the suitcase in a lake. Then he took Phillips truck and abandoned it in Indiana.

 

[yui]

Cottrell claims that when he got back to the room, Phillips was dead. Cottrell says he panicked, stuffed the body in a suitcase, drove to the next county and dumped the suitcase in a lake. Then he took Phillips truck and abandoned it in Indiana.

Since I'm not on the jury, can I just say, "BULLSHIT!"

Sorry, I am not offering something more constructive, but this sort of thing makes me nuts!

 

[TheEarl]

My sense of this is that the rape claim is rather suspicious. To kill a rapist in self-defence is one thing. But to kill and then stuff the body in a suitcase and throw it into a lake smacks of premeditation to me.

I have to say (not knowing the facts of the case beyond the link originally given) that throwing the body in the lake does not necessarily mean pre-meditation. Anyone watched "I know what you did lat summer"? Shite film, but the premise could be the same - accidental death and the guilty party panics and tries to avoid any kind of blame.

It could be manslaughter or self-defence and the crime scene tampering was panic at suddenly being faced with a dead body. However if Wildcard's right and he lured him in there, then he deserves everything he gets.

The Earl

 

[Wildcard Ky]

A sad day.

I had hoped my small part of the world would be more advanced than what was shown yesterday. Cottrell was convicted of the lesser charge of second degree manslaughter.

Hopefully they will get him on being a persistent felon.

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[Blackie Malone]

A sad day.

I had hoped my small part of the world would be more advanced than what was shown yesterday. Cottrell was convicted of the lesser charge of second degree manslaughter.

Hopefully they will get him on being a persistent felon.

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Sorry to hear that babe, thanks for the update.

 

[sweetnpetite]

So if a woman is date-raped she should kill him. She'll be treated more fairly in the legal system and the press than if she just has him arrested for date rape.

That's what I was thinking.

Or you know, if he's *learing* at you. so long as you feel threatened, you should take him out.