Has my bubble burst? :(

[Chi-Guy31]

Well, I had some odd encounters this weekend and I thought I would share them here for some feedback. It kinda ties into other threads I have started waaaay in the past here at Lit, such as "Ever Feel Like a Freak Among Family & Friends?", but I wanted to start a new thread just for some more opinions.

My wife and I were out with one of our usual groups of friends Friday night and the topic of sex came up. It never comes up as a serious conversation in this particular group, we just make funny jokes and innuendo, but never actually talk about sex. There were three girls and three guys in our group and the topic was addressed about why guys like facials, anal sex and tit fucking. I ended up being the only person educated on more advanced techniques, arguing how both why a guy might enjoy these and how a woman might as well. The girls were not having it. They all felt that pretty much most of the time a girl does everything just to please her man. I even drew on what I learned from Tristan Taormino about anatomy and the nerves to be stimulated in both women's and men's asses, but it just got more frustrating as the chat progressed and I looked more like a typical man who believes the hype that a women really does enjoy whatever a man thinks she enjoys. I felt defensive yet retained diplomacy, allowing for the certainty that not all women are aroused by the same things, but the girls in our group still felt I was misinformed and out of touch, even my wife. I am an educated, sensitive, sex-positive man focused on a woman's pleasure and I felt more uncomfortable and vulnerable than I have in awhile.

Later at home, I mentioned to my wife how awkward I felt and that I never intended to be the sole voice at the table for a woman's enjoyment of anal pleasure (among others). It opened up the ongoing argument about sex between my wife and I. She feels that her opinions and thoughts on sex are negated by me because I read Tristan and that her "expert" knowledge trumps my wife's. Not true. She feels I have been in a "bubble" due to sites like puckerup.com and message boards like this, adultdvdtalk.com and OpenUp and it has simply reinforced what I want to be true. I happen to think that women on these boards are simply more interested in expressing their sexuality and sex in general, but I never thought they were the majority. My wife still thinks most of these women are lying anyway, again just to please men.

My wife also thinks my focus on the ass is new within the last few years, but I had to explain that I hid it from her so as not to frighten her early on. How does a guy start a romantic relationship saying how he enjoys his own ass and stimulating a woman's ass too? It just does not happen often. We talked about the infrequency of our sex life and what happens during. I finally admitted how I use the dildos and butt plugs in our closet on myself and that I originally bought them for myself and just hid them for years before she found them last year. I still want her to use them on me, but she really is not all that comfortable with the idea, which I find strange since how it could hurt her to slide a dildo into my ass? She thinks all our sexual activities are geared towards what turns me on but I pointed again that this is because she has never admitted to me what works for her, even though I have asked for years. I still try to find out what arouses her, where she wants to be touched, what is her favorite position, what should I do again cause it felt good, etc, and she NEVER has a response. And if I did not act on something that turns me on, then we would simply lie there on the bed naked cause she would never initiate. She conceded this point.

She then noted how for her a back and/or shoulder rub is really the tops in terms of pleasure, whereas for others it might be an orgasm. Again, this leaves me in a lurch cause as a normal married male, I would like to experience an orgasm during sexual relations with my wife. So what am I supposed to during the weeks and months where there is no sex but I can continue to massage her back each day, which she prefers over an orgasm? How is that fair for me? She conceded this point too.

So after that night I was just left feeling kinda embarrassed, frustrated and sick to my stomach the rest of weekend. I didn't want to face our groups of friends again as they now know about all my research into sexuality and ass play in particular. And I just felt defeated and alone, wondering how the heck do I reconcile all this, after such a rude awakening? Any comments or opinions? I realize this is still my "bubble" environment, but I guess I wanted to hear a sympathetic voice…

 

[rcuhljr]

Yikes, I could see myself ending up in a similar situation.

Since this is two problems, let me deal with the simpler one first, the friends. Why should you be embarrased that you enjoy actively improving yourself? Sex is another important part of life to live in ignorance is nothing to be proud of. If they haven't said anything about it, just assume they don't care, or perhaps are as interested as you but aren't brave enough to say anything. If they do, just remind them that given the choice you'd rather be having more fun then less

Now the wife is a much more complicated situation, and I'm going to preface this with the warning that my advice isn't guranteed.

Firstly I'd possibly think about sex/relationship counseling, there's apparently a large gap between where you and your wife are on the sexual/relationship playing field. But on the plus side you are talking about it, which is a good start. And really any improvement in what you two get out of it is worth the effort. I really feel the backrub comment is kind of alarming, and I'm curious if she has shame/guilt issues associated with sex/orgasm, does she masturbate at all on her own?

On a side tangent as far as anal, facials, tit fucking go, there are threads around based exactly on "why do I find this enjoyable" you could possibly find some of the more eloquent and vocal members of lit and see if you wife would be interested in talking to them, see if they can convince her why they enjoy it. But that seems like a large step for her. I'd focus on trying to figure out how to reconcile your sexual lives.

 

[gingermango]

Your conversation around the table and then later with your wife sounds like those I used to be a part of before I got divorced and then met and married the love of my life. I don't know what I can offer in terms of advice but you certainly have my sympathy.

Personally, I could never imagine going back to such a repressed and repressive environment. My Goddess/wife is completely open about what turns her on and fortunately, what turns her on turns me on and vice versa, in marked contrast to my first wife. Together, we've met and played with some incredibly sexy people who feel the exact same way. Yes, some women most certainly do what they do for their own pleasure and not just to make some man happy. It's sad that your wife and her friends don't seem to grasp that.

 

[lovingdreamer]

Ok, as you know everyone is far far different! Everyone likes different things. I for one am very sexual, love it, all the time, anytime. whenever I can. My husband on the other hand would be happy with a few times a year! So we are at different ends of the rainbow shall we say. I actually know some women who do not see sex and orgasm as to important. (i personally don't understand it!) My husband does not go close to an ass any ass! Scares the heck out of him! So marriage closed the door on that one! Anyhow be honest with her about what you like and don't like and respect her, but maybe you can also teach her what you like as well. We all do things from time to time that we don't love if we know it gives the other great satisfaction. Just keep being honest and open.

 

[Chi-Guy31]

Yikes, I could see myself ending up in a similar situation.

Since this is two problems, let me deal with the simpler one first, the friends. Why should you be embarrased that you enjoy actively improving yourself? Sex is another important part of life to live in ignorance is nothing to be proud of. If they haven't said anything about it, just assume they don't care, or perhaps are as interested as you but aren't brave enough to say anything. If they do, just remind them that given the choice you'd rather be having more fun then less

Now the wife is a much more complicated situation, and I'm going to preface this with the warning that my advice isn't guranteed.

Firstly I'd possibly think about sex/relationship counseling, there's apparently a large gap between where you and your wife are on the sexual/relationship playing field. But on the plus side you are talking about it, which is a good start. And really any improvement in what you two get out of it is worth the effort. I really feel the backrub comment is kind of alarming, and I'm curious if she has shame/guilt issues associated with sex/orgasm, does she masturbate at all on her own?

On a side tangent as far as anal, facials, tit fucking go, there are threads around based exactly on "why do I find this enjoyable" you could possibly find some of the more eloquent and vocal members of lit and see if you wife would be interested in talking to them, see if they can convince her why they enjoy it. But that seems like a large step for her. I'd focus on trying to figure out how to reconcile your sexual lives.

I would love to give the therapy another try, but she HATES therapy and therapists. Bad experiences in her past are partly to blame, parents who sent her to a Christian therapist and a psych ward against her will, forcibly. I went to therapy on my own for this back in 2004 and invited my wife along to one session - she loathed it, felt she was seen as Public Enemy #1 and that the therapist was biased against her, so I decided that we somehow have to figure these issues out between the 2 of us, with no mediator.

I forgot to mention something, your comment on the shame/guilt aspect reminded me. When we were talking about what works during sex and I noted how she often declines my offer to go down on her, she noted that she does feel self-conscious about that. She says it does not take long before that happens and she said her fierce, independent side kicks in and she thinks that she can be doing the job herself, I don't need to be down in that area. I can sympathize with her, as for years I was uncomfortable receiving oral from any woman I was with (or the men I fooled around with in college!), thinking I didn't deserve the attention and I should be focused on them instead....

 

[Chi-Guy31]

Ok, as you know everyone is far far different! Everyone likes different things. I for one am very sexual, love it, all the time, anytime. whenever I can. My husband on the other hand would be happy with a few times a year! So we are at different ends of the rainbow shall we say. I actually know some women who do not see sex and orgasm as to important. (i personally don't understand it!) My husband does not go close to an ass any ass! Scares the heck out of him! So marriage closed the door on that one! Anyhow be honest with her about what you like and don't like and respect her, but maybe you can also teach her what you like as well. We all do things from time to time that we don't love if we know it gives the other great satisfaction. Just keep being honest and open.

I do always try to keep that in mind and she assures me that I can talk honestly about what I like, but that is no guarantee that she will be a party to it - for instance the attention on my ass, thru toys and fingers, is something I like but she cannot bring herself to attempt...

 

[lovingdreamer]

Just keep it open and honest and hope things will turn around for you. Took me a while to figure out some things my hubby likes, but now that I know we both are happy! Communication was the trick for us. Maybe show her how you like the toys played with? Show her what you do. bring it into the playtime.

I do always try to keep that in mind and she assures me that I can talk honestly about what I like, but that is no guarantee that she will be a party to it - for instance the attention on my ass, thru toys and fingers, is something I like but she cannot bring herself to attempt...

 

[Chi-Guy31]

Thanks for the support, lovingdreamer - is it wrong of me to feel a bit hurt if she does not want to take part in something I really enjoy? I guess I just can't imagine not being into ass play to some extent, but if she finds no joy in it, then what's the point?

 

[LadyJeanne]

I'm not trying to pick on you Chi-Guy, but what were you doing getting married to someone who was so far on the other end of the sex spectrum than you?

If you've always liked anal play you should have brought that up to the woman you were about to marry, someone you'd be spending the rest of your life with! No, you don't need to mention that over coffee on your first date, but yes, you mention at some point before you get married!

In any case, it sounds like you have problems with your sex life in general. You need to deal with those first. If you could work through those issues, then you'd have a much better chance of working toward anal play of some kind.

I would try to get her to a counselor. There are underlying issues causing your sexual problems, but when you two talk, I see that you go off into tangents about whether internet people are lying about liking certain sexual practices. You're not really addressing your primary problem, which is that you and your wife don't have much sex, and when you do, it's not what either of you want.

It may be difficult to get her to do this, but perhaps you could suggest that she go to one by herself that she selects for herself. That way, she can be more comfortable with the person when you join them since she felt your previous counselor was on your side and she wouldn't get a fair and impartial viewpoint.

 

[gingermango]

I'm not trying to pick on you Chi-Guy, but what were you doing getting married to someone who was so far on the other end of the sex spectrum than you?

If you've always liked anal play you should have brought that up to the woman you were about to marry, someone you'd be spending the rest of your life with! No, you don't need to mention that over coffee on your first date, but yes, you mention at some point before you get married!

LadyJeanne has it exactly. That's the point I was trying to slide up to kind of obliquely - yes, sometimes I'm too subtle I guess. But she's dead on. After the failure of my first marriage (which had a LOT to do with sexual incompatibility), I made it a point to seek out a new partner who was suited to me. I even used an online dating service with the username "Submissive" as an email handle. I used that to wean out women who didn't "get it." Having been through the wringer over my kinks and desires, I wasn't going to do it again. Goddess "got it" right off - she had me kneeling down to kiss her feet on the first date, hog-tied within two weeks, and wearing sexy panties and stockings with my toenails painted and legs shaved within two two months. We've been happy together for 5 1/2 years now.

It's all about compatibility and life's too damned short to settle.

 

[rcuhljr]

LadyJeanne has it exactly. That's the point I was trying to slide up to kind of obliquely - yes, sometimes I'm too subtle I guess. But she's dead on. After the failure of my first marriage (which had a LOT to do with sexual incompatibility), I made it a point to seek out a new partner who was suited to me. I even used an online dating service with the username "Submissive" as an email handle. I used that to wean out women who didn't "get it." Having been through the wringer over my kinks and desires, I wasn't going to do it again. Goddess "got it" right off - she had me kneeling down to kiss her feet on the first date, hog-tied within two weeks, and wearing sexy panties and stockings with my toenails painted and legs shaved within two two months. We've been happy together for 5 1/2 years now.

It's all about compatibility and life's too damned short to settle.

Having never been married or in a serious relationship I was loathe to offer such serious advice, but yes there is a huge gap here, and while sex isn't everything to a relationship, it is a large part for most people. Either way I'd really suggest trying to get her talking to someone, even if she has to go alone.

 

[Chi-Guy31]

I'm not trying to pick on you Chi-Guy, but what were you doing getting married to someone who was so far on the other end of the sex spectrum than you?

If you've always liked anal play you should have brought that up to the woman you were about to marry, someone you'd be spending the rest of your life with! No, you don't need to mention that over coffee on your first date, but yes, you mention at some point before you get married!

In any case, it sounds like you have problems with your sex life in general. You need to deal with those first. If you could work through those issues, then you'd have a much better chance of working toward anal play of some kind.

I would try to get her to a counselor. There are underlying issues causing your sexual problems, but when you two talk, I see that you go off into tangents about whether internet people are lying about liking certain sexual practices. You're not really addressing your primary problem, which is that you and your wife don't have much sex, and when you do, it's not what either of you want.

It may be difficult to get her to do this, but perhaps you could suggest that she go to one by herself that she selects for herself. That way, she can be more comfortable with the person when you join them since she felt your previous counselor was on your side and she wouldn't get a fair and impartial viewpoint.

I think the crying shame of that was I had no idea I would marry her, but we were very much in love and I was also not so comfortable with myself as to make my interests known to her. Admittedly, it had been a pattern in past relationships, where I take a very undemanding role, concerned with the woman's pleasure but afraid to ask for any for me. If it was given freely that was fine, but I never wanted to be seen by the girl as demanding or pushy or selfish. My wife and I just loved being around each other, talking, laughing, and I never had a relationship last more than 6 months so I was not prepared for actually having to admit what I like sexually. Now I am in it, I still love, but yep, that sexual gap is wide, my friend. Leave it to me to really take more pride in what I like but end up in a marriage where I feel compelled to hide it.

 

[Bandit58]

Your conversation around the table and then later with your wife sounds like those I used to be a part of before I got divorced and then met and married the love of my life. I don't know what I can offer in terms of advice but you certainly have my sympathy.

Personally, I could never imagine going back to such a repressed and repressive environment. My Goddess/wife is completely open about what turns her on and fortunately, what turns her on turns me on and vice versa, in marked contrast to my first wife. Together, we've met and played with some incredibly sexy people who feel the exact same way. Yes, some women most certainly do what they do for their own pleasure and not just to make some man happy. It's sad that your wife and her friends don't seem to grasp that.

*smiles* I have been back to visit the "repressed environment" I left 2 years ago when I met Master Gil. I felt like an outsider and it was like I had to climb back in the closet Here in Sydney I'm out as a bisexual submissive, our friends all know us as the DV8 couple

I was married for many years to a very vanilla man. I was 19 when we married and didn't know anything let alone understand about sexuality. Since I left him I've found that sex is something to be enjoyed, especially with someone you really care about, trust and love. With trust comes willingness to explore and learn. I've tried things that previously would have had me running for the hills.

I also have to remember that not everyone is as open about sex as we are - I remember at a get together of Aussie Lit members a couple of years ago, a group of us was sitting round a table at the pub talking about fisting, and it just seemed like old home week Try that where I used to live and you'd probably get a chorus of "TMI!!" and signs warding off the evil eye

 

[Chi-Guy31]

*smiles* I have been back to visit the "repressed environment" I left 2 years ago when I met Master Gil. I felt like an outsider and it was like I had to climb back in the closet Here in Sydney I'm out as a bisexual submissive, our friends all know us as the DV8 couple

I was married for many years to a very vanilla man. I was 19 when we married and didn't know anything let alone understand about sexuality. Since I left him I've found that sex is something to be enjoyed, especially with someone you really care about, trust and love. With trust comes willingness to explore and learn. I've tried things that previously would have had me running for the hills.

I also have to remember that not everyone is as open about sex as we are - I remember at a get together of Aussie Lit members a couple of years ago, a group of us was sitting round a table at the pub talking about fisting, and it just seemed like old home week Try that where I used to live and you'd probably get a chorus of "TMI!!" and signs warding off the evil eye

I do sometimes hate the cry of "TMI" when the topic can be interesting as sex, since I have always been curious about what turns other people on, as well as myself. It just stifles the number of topics and I find the same trouble with people who don't want to discuss politics either. The "TMI" often seem to be from people who themselves have not really experienced much sexually or are embarrassed about it. I would love to have been in on that fisting chat you guys had!

 

[wrathofkublakhan]

Sympathies Chi-Guy. A tough road ahead of you, no doubt.

I can relate to the party with friends tho. When all you've been listening to is Cole Porter you might confess 'my heart belongs to daddy' or 'anything goes' or you're 'easy to love' only to find that the conversation is as different as 'night and day'.
And then you realize your friends only listen to Judas Priest and they just spout 'breaking the law, breaking the law'.

The clash of cultures can be shocking when steeped in one and exposed to another.

Chin up and remember 'you're the top!'

 

[Cathleen]

I don't have much to offer here Chi-Guy, except I think the conversations with your friends at dinner sounds excellent. I have found that since coming to Lit I am more apt to share or discuss sexual information then previously. But not everyone comes to Lit and not everyone can discuss sex openly. (Believe me, I was the *last* person people would have thought to discuss sex.)

I do see a bright spot with your wife. The willingness to discuss openly and honestly with each other is great. I'd definitely keep at that. Your thoughts about seeing a therapist together are pretty clear, I'm sorry for it too because it might help tremendously.

You are married, you can't go backwards there. I like the suggestion your wife maybe reading around here - would she be open to that?

 

[Chi-Guy31]

I don't have much to offer here Chi-Guy, except I think the conversations with your friends at dinner sounds excellent. I have found that since coming to Lit I am more apt to share or discuss sexual information then previously. But not everyone comes to Lit and not everyone can discuss sex openly. (Believe me, I was the *last* person people would have thought to discuss sex.)

I do see a bright spot with your wife. The willingness to discuss openly and honestly with each other is great. I'd definitely keep at that. Your thoughts about seeing a therapist together are pretty clear, I'm sorry for it too because it might help tremendously.

You are married, you can't go backwards there. I like the suggestion your wife maybe reading around here - would she be open to that?

Thanks Cathleen, for the thoughts.... I have always wanted my wife to visit here and see what it is about, I have sent her the links for the sites I visit and message boards I post. But I cannot force her to browse through them. She has never given any indication that she ever visited any of the sites, never asking for more info or letting me know what she found. She might have visit once 2 years ago and that was it, it's just not in her area of interest to research here, but you are right that it is a good thing we still have the comminication and honesty. We still make great friends who like to talk and laugh together and I just don't think I should take that for granted....

 

[SweetErika]

Thanks Cathleen, for the thoughts.... I have always wanted my wife to visit here and see what it is about, I have sent her the links for the sites I visit and message boards I post. But I cannot force her to browse through them. She has never given any indication that she ever visited any of the sites, never asking for more info or letting me know what she found. She might have visit once 2 years ago and that was it, it's just not in her area of interest to research here, but you are right that it is a good thing we still have the comminication and honesty. We still make great friends who like to talk and laugh together and I just don't think I should take that for granted....

I think it might be worthwhile to look into this facet of your relationship, and explore the feelings surrounding it, Chi-Guy.

I don't know about you, but it's important for my husband and I to take an interest in eachother's activities, even if they're not OUR primary interests. For example, my hubby loves computer games and fantasy books, two things that I have no interest in getting involved in myself. However, I make a point to ask and learn about them because they're an important part of his life, and I love him.

Likewise, he's not as interested in sexuality and doesn't come here often, but checks Lit and links I send out, asks about what I'm doing here, and is open to discussing different topics. His efforts make me feel important and loved. By the same token, when he doesn't acknowledge my efforts to share/communicate, I feel ignored.

There was a time when we didn't take an interest in these types of things, and it was at least a little hurtful. That small amount of hurt started to fester into resentment that began coloring many of our interactions, which is why we both started making a conscious effort to make some changes (which became a natural part of our relationship with time and practice).

My point? You can do much of the work you'd do in counseling by examining these types of things and asking what impact they have on your thoughts, feelings and interactions, then working on changing the negatives. That's a huge part of making any relationship successful, and the changes could break down some of the sexual barriers as well.

 

[Chi-Guy31]

Thanks, Erika, I am hoping similar sharing can happen with us. We tend to do this with most everything else we enjoy, as far as movies, music, TV, books and art, etc, but I held back on the porn, dildos and overall interest in sexuality becuase it was something that made her uncomfortable - you certainly give me hope in that if your husband can learn to inquire than so can my wife!

 

[TBKahuna123]

There's a definite patter that I'm seeing here. No offense to anyone here, especially the ladies, but has anyone else noticed that the avarage age of people on this forum seems to be approaching middle age? I mean there are times that I feel like the baby of this group at 34, but I think it's very telling. Only when we start to mature can we look at sex in a mature way.

Think back, when you were 18 what were your thoughts on sex? Did any of use really explore any of the more open minded options out there? Think about them sure, but explore them? Honestly embrace them? The point is that most of us marry during a time when we don't really even understand our own sexuality, let alone how it connects with someone else's.

That's what's happened here with Chi-Guy, so how does he deal with it. Very carefully, that's how. I think that sometimes when we are the ones with broader sexual tastes that we can feel victimized when our mates aren't overjoyed and wide open to trying new things, and we have to be understanding and patient. I know I've been guilty of pushing too hard int he past, and that's with a wife who is VERY open sexually. I'm not trying to discount your feelings or frustrations one bit, just counselling a deep breath and a vast amount of patience.

Everyone here has given you such great advice, but the comments about her thinking a back rub is the height of pleasure struck me. A few people ahve said this is a danger sign, I disagree. This is an opening.

My wife said it just yesterday, she felt we were starting to slide into that rut of not enough foreplay again. Now if you've read some of my other novelesque posts, you'll know that the first time she said this is started a ton of confusion. When she says foreplay, she's not talking "foreplay" as most of us define it, she means quality non-sexual time before we start anything sexual. The thing is that when we spend time together she feels more connected and this increases her sexual desire AND enjoyment. So what does this mean to me? Well in the absolute basic term it means that all I have to do to get laid is to hang out and spend an evening with her, devote my attentions to her, just be there totally with her. It's an aphordisiac that nothing else can match, and you have the same opportunity here I think.

She loves a good back rub, that's her height of pleasure? Well turn those same research skills which have helped you explore your pleasures onto learning to enhance HER pleasures. Research massage tenchinques, both erotic and non-erotic. Put your whole being into giving her pleasure through that massage. Worst case scenario it will give her some pleasure and give you an opportunity to touch her body. Best case scenario it may help her start to open up a bit. You said that she agreed it isn't fair if she gets pleasure and you don't, that means she's probably not completely self-centered. The biggest point of the whole endeavor though is to show that you actually listened ot what she had to say. She told you what gives her pleasure, so act on that, even though it isn't what you would consider pleasurable in the same way. Spending quality time with my wife, while wonderful in it's own right, does nothing to enhance my sexual mood or desire. The fact though that I listened to what my partner had to say and acted on it for HER benefit is even more important than the actual time spent, at least that's what my wife has said. It has also made her think about what I've expressed about things that give me pleasure and she has made an effort there as well.

I can't promise that this is the silver bullet that makes her open up, but it's a great place to start. It's not a hard thing to do, it's something very small that can show that you care about her feelings too. Good luck!

Oh and BTW: Silicone lube makes a great multi-purpose massage oil too!

 

[Chi-Guy31]

Thanks, TBKahuna, you do make sense! Typically the back rub does not lead to anything sexual, but I will keep trying, stay patient and see if I get lucky. Often after a backrub, she has to stretch out and ends up not moving for awhile, so it is not often feasible afterwards, but you never know.... there have been times in the past in which I was able to have the back massage develop into a butt massage and into some fun in that area....

 

[TBKahuna123]

Thanks, TBKahuna, you do make sense! Typically the back rub does not lead to anything sexual, but I will keep trying, stay patient and see if I get lucky. Often after a backrub, she has to stretch out and ends up not moving for awhile, so it is not often feasible afterwards, but you never know.... there have been times in the past in which I was able to have the back massage develop into a butt massage and into some fun in that area....

That's just it though, it probably won't directly lead to anything sexual. What your goal should be is to show her that you care about her pleasure and giving her pleasure in HER way. Maybe then that will lead to her feeling not just an obligation, but a desire to give you pleasure in your way. The most important thing is to not expect it to turn into sex and to not have that as your goal. Do it to show her you care about her pleasure, not to turn her on.

Patience is required because its the long road. If it works though, trust me, it will be worth the wait.

 

[lovingdreamer]

I am 31 so I call that still rather young, and I will try anything once, if i don't like it then so be it but how are you going to know if you don't try it?

Now back to topic, just be slow and communicate with her, let her know what you think feels good as well as make her feel good.

 

[Chi-Guy31]

I am 31 so I call that still rather young, and I will try anything once, if i don't like it then so be it but how are you going to know if you don't try it?

Now back to topic, just be slow and communicate with her, let her know what you think feels good as well as make her feel good.

Ditto for me, I am only 33 so I don't feel ancient quite yet! That is why I want to make the most of this time, when my energy level is still high!

 

[SweetErika]

First off, TBK, great thoughts as always; I've dearly missed those "novelesque posts," (you're a man after my own verbose heart, you know ) and am thrilled to see you back! I hope you and Mrs. TBK had an amazing time!

And when you feel like the baby of the group, you can always think of me.

Thanks, TBKahuna, you do make sense! Typically the back rub does not lead to anything sexual, but I will keep trying, stay patient and see if I get lucky. Often after a backrub, she has to stretch out and ends up not moving for awhile, so it is not often feasible afterwards, but you never know.... there have been times in the past in which I was able to have the back massage develop into a butt massage and into some fun in that area....

Going into it with your only goal being making her feel good is definitely the way to go. I think most of us pick up on even the smallest 'I'm doing this with reciprocity in mind' vibes.

I'm going to preface this with BE SURE TO ASK BEFOREHAND for that very reason. One thing my husband's long done is kiss my back. We're not talking about a few kisses as a part of foreplay, but rather what I think of as a 'kissing massage,' an event unto itself. Sometimes he starts with a great backrub, which sounds like it might work well for your wife, then proceeds to kiss, lick, suck and touch from the base of my skull to my ass, experimenting and reacting to my verbal cues. It's certainly a turn on for me, but it's also relaxing and the entire point is to make me feel just plain good -- even if 'good' means melting into sleep (which has happened maybe once).

So, perhaps you could let her know you'd love to find new ways to make her feel good during backrubs, and ask if she's up for some experimentation and communication. Tell her you have a few ideas, some of which could be interpreted as sexual, though arousal/sex isn't your intent at all. I think being up front about it and affirming it's not meant to go beyond her experiencing pleaure is likely to go over very well.