Halloween Contest Off-Topic Thread

[lovecraft68]

Whoa. 3.00 is not a bomb to anyone who reads the category explanations. It's an "I like it," and it's spot on for the comment (generous, actually, for the comment "still not too bad"), which could very well be legitimate. Your work is more than 35,000 words and the commenter said they skipped over maybe half of it--which means they read a big chunk of it. Instead of calling someone who took the time to read about half of a 35,000-word piece (I wouldn't read any of it. I don't think short stories should be mixed with novellas and novels in the same contest) "some ignoramus," you might look to the possibility that you were too verbose for the material you had.

Technically you're right, but let's face it, people have become skewed to think anything less than a 4 is a bomb and I believe the trolls are 'three bombing" because of what you just said so it looks more legit and let's face it, a three can bring a story down out of contention and away from the red H if that's the only goal

 

[SecondCircle]

Only 4's and 5's will do apparently.

 

[oggbashan]

Technically you're right, but let's face it, people have become skewed to think anything less than a 4 is a bomb and I believe the trolls are 'three bombing" because of what you just said so it looks more legit and let's face it, a three can bring a story down out of contention and away from the red H if that's the only goal

I don't think people have become skewed. It is authors that have become skewed by the H setting at 4.50.

Anyone coming to Literotica for the first time could reasonably assume that a 3 vote was for an average story with a scale of 1 to 5. They don't realise, like less than five stars for eBay sales, that anything less than a perfect response counts against the story.

I have said before that there is one way that the contests could become immune to game-playing even with the current system of voting and sweeps.

That is simple - IF the contests attracted hundreds or thousands of entries instead of dozens the game-playing would be wholly ineffective. But while people gripe about the unfairness, those considering entering the contests are deterred.

 

[sr71plt]

I took a different stand on this issue. I did not vote on my own story. I did pick the top three stories (in my opinion) and I gave them the vote they deserved. One of the top 3, I did not vote on because, again, in my opinion, it was and still is in violation of Lit's posting rules. All other stories, some of which I liked but felt they needed work still...I commented on but didn't vote for or against.

On this Halloween Contest? How do you know what your top three are when the contest is open for submissions for another week?

I don't vote on any of the stories in a competition I've entered.

 

[sr71plt]

Technically you're right, but let's face it, people have become skewed to think anything less than a 4 is a bomb and I believe the trolls are 'three bombing" because of what you just said so it looks more legit and let's face it, a three can bring a story down out of contention and away from the red H if that's the only goal

In this case, the voter backed up the vote with a comment that validates a 3--and there's a 50/50 chance that the commenter has a good point and isn't an "ignoramous."

 

[oggbashan]

On this Halloween Contest? How do you know what your top three are when the contest is open for submissions for another week?

I don't vote on any of the stories in a competition I've entered.

The ratings can be seen at any time.

But you are right. There still might be better entries to come. (Probably not from me - my next Halloween stories are stalled.)

 

[sr71plt]

As a writer who has won twice the contest money of any other writer on the site, I beg to differ with you.

True these contests are nothing more than popularity contests and are usually won over and again by the same people with the largest fan bases.

Yet, no one should enter one of these contests with the idea of winning in mind. Instead, you should enter the contest as your way to write a theme story and to showcase your writing ability, your creative skills, and honed talent.

Along the way, you'll pick up more fans and more votes. Along the way, you may even win a contest without it being rigged. Along the way, you may even make some friends.

The whole idea about theme contests is to stretch your talent as a creative writer of fiction and to have fun.

It should be noted that all of the contest money you've won here was in a contest that's based only on the number of stories posted in a year across the category list (the survivor contest). It has nothing to do with the themed contests discussed here or with votes or with popularity or with story quality. (This isn't a knock on the quality of your stories. The few I've read have been quite good. It's merely a "point of order" that you are not talking about the same kind of contest that this thread is talking about. You haven't won any themed contests on Literotica, have you? If so, which one(s)?)

So, I should think that you could talk more to the manipulation of themed contests and the art of downvoting than you can to winning strategies or history.

 

[sr71plt]

The ratings can be seen at any time.

That's irrelevant to my point. You can't possibly decide what are the top three stories in a contest--in your view or by any other standard--if the entry period for the contest doesn't end for another week.

 

[sr71plt]

Would you please take the time explain what you actually do mean here SusanJill? You begin by saying that you disagree with me, giving your earnings in prize money, twice as much as those of any other writer, as the reason for disagreeing, that much is clear. You have quoted two statements of mine as being, at least one would logically assume so, what you then go on to disagree with. Which of these two statements or what in them is it that you disagree with?

a) That this is the final competition I will bother to enter?
b) That (to me) it's not about the winning?

As to the first, I believe that I am more qualified to judge whether or not it is accurate . As to the second, what you then go on to elaborate actually echoes this opinion rather than contradict it.

I think that upon reflection you will have to agree that your post is rather confused and the way you have explained your thinking rather muddled, SusanJill. Would you please give it another go?

Do you still need an explanation from Freddie (currently calling himself Susan), knowing that he's not talking about themed contests here at all?

 

[NicoleZ]

Thank you for posting the table, Jsmiam.

If part of your concern was based on the moment in time that you had five votes

No,

My concern was that after eight votes the score had been bombed to 3.23 and that as a consequence the number of people reading and responding would decline. As a reader, with a huge number of new stories available during contest time, would you bother to read a story with 3.23 or would you choose to read those with scores around 4.50 or better?

Also, people are swayed by what others think and if in the choice between two scores would look at what others have votes and adjust their own vote accordingly.

 

[NicoleZ]

you might look to the possibility that you were too verbose for the material you had.

No,

If anything, I was the opposite as if you'd take the trouble to read it, you would see that the plot is far from simple and that there are huge swathes that have been cut out of what in essence is a 90,000+ word, novel sized plot, in order to bring it down to 1/3 the size.

Is jenorma2012 (joined March 11, 2016, age given as 18+ no other information, no story/poem entries, no favourites, no contact information) perchance one of your aliases? From the emotional involvement and length of your answer, plus the fact that you seem to have made a count of words, it would be quite logical to draw that conclusion...

 

[NicoleZ]

In this case, the voter backed up the vote with a comment that validates a 3--and there's a 50/50 chance that the commenter has a good point and isn't an "ignoramous."

With this answer, I think it is safe to conclude that you are indeed the person behind the obvious alt Jenorma 2012 - https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=3101773

If not, well, you can very easily see how poisonous and inflamed the issue is - and before you or anyone else point the finger - it did not begin with me!

 

[oggbashan]

...
My concern was that after eight votes the score had been bombed to 3.23 and that as a consequence the number of people reading and responding would decline. As a reader, with a huge number of new stories available during contest time, would you bother to read a story with 3.23 or would you choose to read those with scores around 4.50 or better?

Also, people are swayed by what others think and if in the choice between two scores would look at what others have votes and adjust their own vote accordingly.

Some of my stories start with very low ratings. I have reached 10 votes with a 2.xx rating. Those stories are usually fetish. The fetish either works for the reader, or doesn't.

If readers look at the contest list on the front page of Literotica they don't see the ratings. They can see them on the New list, but a contest entry will soon drop off the front page of that.

I was happier when ratings weren't visible at all until after 10 votes but that didn't stop trolls from dropping 1-bombs on stories reaching 10 votes with a perfect 5.00 rating. A few 4 votes might introduce some realism but several 1-bombs within a couple of hours is deliberate. But the pattern of 1-bombs is obvious and should be swept.

Edited to add: Some of my femdom stories ALWAYS have low scores because 'real men' don't like them. My flawed early stories Hen Party and Stag Party have been at 3.23 for a long time.

 

[sr71plt]

With this answer, I think it is safe to conclude that you are indeed the person behind the obvious alt Jenorma 2012 - https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=3101773

If not, well, you can very easily see how poisonous and inflamed the issue is - and before you or anyone else point the finger - it did not begin with me!

I think that just about anyone on the forum will tell you I'm not that alt, Nicole. I think your bad attitude is showing. And I think I was correct in seeing calling a commenter who gave you a 3 and explained that it was because you didn't keep their attention in ten-page entry an "ignoramous" as abuse by the author.

 

[SecondCircle]

Thank you for posting the table, Jsmiam.



No,

My concern was that after eight votes the score had been bombed to 3.23 and that as a consequence the number of people reading and responding would decline. As a reader, with a huge number of new stories available during contest time, would you bother to read a story with 3.23 or would you choose to read those with scores around 4.50 or better?

Also, people are swayed by what others think and if in the choice between two scores would look at what others have votes and adjust their own vote accordingly.

8 votes is still, not a lot of votes. And what he's saying is that with so few votes, if an honest reader voted it anything less than a 4 or 5, the score will drop tremendously. Because there are so few votes to average together. Hell, even a 4 will significantly drop a story with that many votes.

Furthermore, anyone that doesn't rate you a 4 or 5 is not a troll. A 3 star is "it was okay, I liked it". Readers can and do rate stories as a 3. Not every vote you get will be an extremely favorable 4 or 5. Not every reader will like your story. Readers and voters have widely varied reasons for reading stories, most having to do with just taste, and you will not win them all over.

The contests are supposed to be a fun activity where writers write the story They like in the category of their choosing based on the provided theme. Not a measuring gauge of actual story quality. It's just basically the stories that people read and like best.

Not every little nuance is fraudulent. Not every vote is a bomb. Especially not the ones like yours where the person left honest negative feedback telling you why they didn't like the story. Not everything is rigged. Do not assume war from bird signs.

No one knows how exactly sweeps work, except the one that oversees them. No one can say how people vote and why. People are capable of voting honest 2's, 3's, 4's, 5's, and nine hells forbid even 1's. People are capable of voting dishonestly with all those as well.

And lastly, it's the interwebs. There are negative people that do negative shit for all manner of reasons. Any contest, whether it's an online Halloween erotica contest or a video soft drink belching contest, will have dumbasses, naysayers, conspirators, and trolls. This should not be surprising at this point.

Write the stuff you love, take the good with the bad and vice versa, have fun, and don't take things so seriously.

 

[TamLin01]

Hmm. Well. Everyone has an opinion. Here's mine: My stories are doing just fine. I'm delighted that they're getting three to five times more traffic than the stuff I usually post outside of contests. I only wish even my best efforts approached the level of readership enjoyed by some of the other authors in this thread.

I think of scores as opinions, not "bombs," and if anyone is plotting against me I haven't noticed, so it must not be a terribly robust conspiracy. If enough people read your story, some of them will dislike it. Frankly, it would only be suspicious if this didn't happen from time to time. I imagine some do indeed people vote in bad faith, but this is always true no matter what the context. When a cure for human nature comes along, let me know. In the meantime, I only wish the Halloween contest came twice a year. My two cents.

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't think people have become skewed. It is authors that have become skewed by the H setting at 4.50.

Anyone coming to Literotica for the first time could reasonably assume that a 3 vote was for an average story with a scale of 1 to 5. They don't realise, like less than five stars for eBay sales, that anything less than a perfect response counts against the story.

I have said before that there is one way that the contests could become immune to game-playing even with the current system of voting and sweeps.

That is simple - IF the contests attracted hundreds or thousands of entries instead of dozens the game-playing would be wholly ineffective. But while people gripe about the unfairness, those considering entering the contests are deterred.

I think its safe to say 'people' as in authors and readers. Reason being people are obsessed with scores and why? Because many readers search stories by that and unfortunately use scores as an indicator of whether or not its worth reading.

Someone sees a 3.92 story which according to the way the scores are described is a good story, and they say "not even a four forget it'

So its not just authors who see a three as being more negative than it really is.

And to reiterate my point the clever troll is dropping three's not one's, especially on contest stories

 

[oggbashan]

I still get a few favourable comments on stories that are rated 3.xx.

But I tend to have a limited audience.

 

[lovecraft68]

With this answer, I think it is safe to conclude that you are indeed the person behind the obvious alt Jenorma 2012 - https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=3101773

If not, well, you can very easily see how poisonous and inflamed the issue is - and before you or anyone else point the finger - it did not begin with me!

I would doubt that's Pilot, they have illustrated stories here. Pilot doesn't draw, at least not here anyway.

I have to agree that if the person left somewhat of a reasonable explanation to go with their three vote, than its not falling under what others are discussing here.

I once had an entry that was around a 4.8 with an hour later it was 4.65 with 9 additional votes. That's an attack and many of us have seen them here.

The trolling is not across the board. People have agendas and targets. If you're quiet on the boards and never argue, if your material is not overly popular, if you've never won a contest...in other words if you're 'no threat' you're fine. Start pointing things out, start winning, start building a reputation you'll see it more

Or like I said in the beginning have the audacity to critique a certain author and see what happens.

Or just hang around, keep your eyes open and see the fun that can be seen

Like Darkniciad's first post under any name in months happens to be on this thread. Wonder who sent him the SOS e-mail?

Or now we have a representative from the group to name call all the tolls and naysayers and etc's..

100% high school and 110% herd 'I'll just swallow what's shoved at me' mentality.

 

[holliday1960]

That's irrelevant to my point. You can't possibly decide what are the top three stories in a contest--in your view or by any other standard--if the entry period for the contest doesn't end for another week.

Sr-plt: You have a point in that until all entries are in, not all can be voted on. I SHOULD have said, I voted on 2 of my top 3 choices at the time. I'm still reading, so my votes may or may not be finalized. If someone drops a story in on the last day of entry, then they may not get read by me. Depends on whether I have time left to read a late entry. But, there's no rule that says I have to choose ONE story to vote on, is there? There are some great entries in this contest and I may decide to vote a couple of more times before it is over.
How do you cast your votes? One and only one vote after the entries are all in? Thanks!

 

[ChloeTzang]

My concern was that after eight votes the score had been bombed to 3.23 and that as a consequence the number of people reading and responding would decline. As a reader, with a huge number of new stories available during contest time, would you bother to read a story with 3.23 or would you choose to read those with scores around 4.50 or better?

Also, people are swayed by what others think and if in the choice between two scores would look at what others have votes and adjust their own vote accordingly.

No, I'd disagree - I think your decision after 8 votes was premature by a long shot. My Halloween story got 2 x 5* ratings first, then went to 3.5 and was in the 3's for the first 10 ratings. It then climbed slowly to around 4 and from there crept up. It's now averaging around 4.61 - 4.60 and I don't mind sharing that coz I honestly don't expect to win - even with the off 1* discounted, it won't move much now.

When I went into this competition, I was looking above all for #'s of views, so I picked a category to write in (Incest) that was pretty much guaranteed to get a lot of views in the first few days. Placing high was a secondary objective. Winning would be nice but I'm really not concerned with that.

I could have gone for my usual First Time or Interracial, but it was more of a "I want to try something different" and I had a plot that more or less fitted what I had in mind altho it had started off a bit different.

Now your story picked Lesbian Sex, which doesn't have a lot of readers compared to the major viewer categories, so if it's number of views your after, you're not going to get them there. If it appealed to readers in that category, you might have got the ratings if you'd given it a chance and left it up longer. Now a couple of the top ranked stories have #'s of views similar to yours and they're in "low reader" categories but the ratings are reasonably high so I can see where that might help you game the ratings.

And a couple of the other highly rated stories are in the Incest category and obviously just plain good - they have #'s of views and high ratings. You and me fall in between, NicoleZ. My advice for next time would be, don't freak out, just go for the ride and gain the experience. First prize ain't no big bucks. It's the reader views and the feedback that's important.

I get stories where the ratings are low but the feedback I do get is just ravingly good - so there's a split between readers that like my stuff and readers that'd don't. Can't argue with reader preferences. So I'm not quite sure where this train of thought started out going but it seems to be ending with "c'est la vie". Write more and do it again next year (I had an entry in last year without any idea what I was doing and the ratings for that one at the time were low 4.0's - it's crept up ever since and it just jumped to 4.52 so someone(s) have liked it). This year I had a better idea, next year I'll aim to do better still.

Suck it up, learn from it and don't take it personally - You'll get some good advice here - I've got a lot but I'm not shy about admitting to mistakes either - or to putting myself out there - it's the best way to learn altho sometimes I feel like an idiot

 

[TamLin01]

I don't understand: Do some authors expect that ALL of their stories will average 4.8s? That anything less than a five is a personal attack? Yes, some people will give your story three stars. That's not even a bad score; what it IS is an entirely inevitable, natural, and predictable outcome of reaching an audience. What else could you possibly expect?

 

[SecondCircle]

Paranoia and negativity only breed more of the same. All one sees on the support threads anymore are the words "sweep" and "troll" and "bomb". Too much focus is on a number, and it's apparent that not even honest votes are being considered honest anymore.

It's discouraging to even consider a contest entry now. Some inevitable sort of negativity will undoubtedly be hurled, be it that low votes must definitely be trolls or that newcomers that win were handed the contest by the powers that be. No matter what you do you're a cheat. If you like a story and vote it a 5, you're a pandering 5 bomber. If you enter more than one story, you're gaming the field. If you finish late, it's a hack to try to accrue few and favorable votes. Enter in your favorite kink and category, you're submitting to a low traffic audience that will upvote said kink. Vote a 3 and see yourself branded as the new breed of "3 bomb troll". Include elements of a story that others do not like, then you're asking for a lecture on morality, or you're doing it on purpose to draw bombs for sweeps. New forum poster? First time contest? Fall under the scrutiny of regulars that assume you are one of their enemies.

Nothing you do is safe from accusation or negativity. Nothing honest happens in the contests. Not even from the site admin.

Enter the contests because you like to. Write the stories you love. Do not become ensnared in negativity. It only leads to more, and needlessly so.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I don't get it: Do some authors expect that ALL of their stories will average 4.8s? That anything less than a five is a personal attack of some kind? Yes, some people will give your story three stars. That's not even a bad score; what it is is entirely inevitable, natural, and predictable. What else could you possibly expect?

I just like to get over 4.0. If I get under that I feel like I need to work on the story.

Enter the contests because you like to. Write the stories you love. Do not become ensnared in negativity. It only leads to more, and needlessly so.

Now I wish I'd written that. Totally agree

 

[NicoleZ]

I would doubt that's Pilot

And I would agree with you, I do not really think it was our former Blackbird Pilot. All I wanted to do is to illustrate how quickly the atmosphere becomes poisonous when the self-interest of a few unscrupulous ones is allowed to ruin what should be a happy and fun occasion.

Oh well. It was a lovely story, one I put an enormous amount of effort into and rewrote twice in its entirety before I was happy with it, but best forget all about that one, eh? Before the scat hit the fan I had put another entry into the queue. It will be interesting to see if that receives the same kind of welcome.