haiti earthquake.

[blunt_trauma]

caring or mocking...
it makes no difference to the people in haiti,
but it makes a difference to/in you.
when you harden your heart to humanity then you become less human.

 

[butters]

caring or mocking...
it makes no difference to the people in haiti,
but it makes a difference to/in you.
when you harden your heart to humanity then you become less human.

tears won't help. mockery won't touch. what they're going through reduces both of those to nothingness.

practical aid is what is needed and what is being sent.

 

[zipman]

caring or mocking...
it makes no difference to the people in haiti,
but it makes a difference to/in you.
when you harden your heart to humanity then you become less human.

*Applause*

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

ah, there it is.

so which is it, AJ? you care, or you don't?

not about the politics. not about the monies you percieve as ill-gotten, ill-spent, but about people.

Why should I care?

What have they done to save their own humanity?

When did they stand up for themselves and fight back against tyranny?

Why have they just "accepted" what fate has dealt to them, and if they're willing to accept their fate, then why should I not also adopt the fatalism endemic to that half of the island? At least they don't have winter to contend with; maybe that's why they won't struggle on their own behalf...

In this regard, I do see them as less than human, just like the idiots wound up on Jihad willing to turn themselves into robotic slaves for Allah, ergo, I'm not too concerned about the "humanitarian" nature of the disaster any more that I got too terribly worked up over the hands-out welfare wards in the wards of Louisiana's welfare state after Katrina.

The people all wound up now, are pretty much the same people who were willing to let the people of Iraq rot under Saddam, a man-made humanitarian disaster, who were actually willing to fight until we stood silent while they were gassed and used to fill mass graves...

That death toll, induced by our rhetoric, far exceeds the wrath of nature in Haiti where the people have yet to rise up and storm that pathetic little mansion its "leaders" hid in until nature did them a favor and raised it...

Maybe now they'll catch the fever to do something about their plight.

Maybe they'll fight for Liberty and Prosperity.

Maybe. Slaves are hard to motivate.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

caring or mocking...
it makes no difference to the people in haiti,
but it makes a difference to/in you.
when you harden your heart to humanity then you become less human.

THEY make themselves less human by accepting that status...

I care much more about the people actually willing to struggle for their humanity.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

tears won't help. mockery won't touch. what they're going through reduces both of those to nothingness.

practical aid is what is needed and what is being sent.

We should be sending them some practical advice...

 

[blunt_trauma]

yes, people in each nation are just a big homogeneous blob.
there were no Iraqis standing up to saddam and ending up in prison torture rooms,
and there was nobody in haiti trying to change things and improve things, struggling for their humanity.
and you support obama.
because there are no individuals.

 

[Sean]

No-one's asking you to be what you are not, AJ. I am merely trying to understand what you really are.

Noob. This IS the right wing American philosophy. I'm all right Jack and devil take the hindmost.

 

[Ishmael]

caring or mocking...
it makes no difference to the people in haiti,
but it makes a difference to/in you.
when you harden your heart to humanity then you become less human.

I have no problem with aiding the people of Haiti, it's what the US does. It's what we've always done. Always.

My beef is with the media and certain politicians that are trying to turn this disaster into something more than what it is, and what it is is a natural and human disaster.

There are people in the media and some politicians that are calling for a general immigration amnesty for the people of Haiti. What is the plan there, to empty that half of the island? There are politicians that are talking of 'loaning' aid to Haiti. One can only presume that the plan there is to use the indebtedness to coerce the government to do the bidding of the US politicians. Considering the fact that the chances of EVER being repaid is close to zero we are talking perpetual national enslavement for the Hatians. There are a group in the press that are trying to turn this into another symbol of racism, as if the earthquake would have never occured if the US wasn't such a racist nation. (I can't even begin to try to explain the convoluted logic they are using to come up with that conclusion.) Obama is making noises as if this is another opportunity at nation building (see 'loans' above).

This is nothing more than a humanitarian effort, justified and morally required. You go do what you can to help ease the suffering then you get your ass out and perhaps, down the line, you'll get a "Thank You" note and that's the most you should expect. These farcical attempts to turn the disaster into so socio-political lever is just a leveraged attempt at quo quid pro that turns a noble effort into a extortive business deal.

The Haitians have to solve their own long term problems and in the meantime we have to help them in this hour of need because we have no other morally justifiable alternative.

Ishmael

 

[butters]

Why should I care?

What have they done to save their own humanity?

When did they stand up for themselves and fight back against tyranny?

Why have they just "accepted" what fate has dealt to them, and if they're willing to accept their fate, then why should I not also adopt the fatalism endemic to that half of the island? At least they don't have winter to contend with; maybe that's why they won't struggle on their own behalf...

In this regard, I do see them as less than human, just like the idiots wound up on Jihad willing to turn themselves into robotic slaves for Allah, ergo, I'm not too concerned about the "humanitarian" nature of the disaster any more that I got too terribly worked up over the hands-out welfare wards in the wards of Louisiana's welfare state after Katrina.

The people all wound up now, are pretty much the same people who were willing to let the people of Iraq rot under Saddam, a man-made humanitarian disaster, who were actually willing to fight until we stood silent while they were gassed and used to fill mass graves...

That death toll, induced by our rhetoric, far exceeds the wrath of nature in Haiti where the people have yet to rise up and storm that pathetic little mansion its "leaders" hid in until nature did them a favor and raised it...

Maybe now they'll catch the fever to do something about their plight.

Maybe they'll fight for Liberty and Prosperity.

Maybe. Slaves are hard to motivate.

I'm not saying YOU should. As I mentioned, I was seeking clarity.


As for the rest of this post? America and Britain (and others) would not have stepped one foot inside Saddam's little pleasure palace (again) if it weren't for the oil. And that's why I do believe we need the UN or some such organisation to have the teeth as well as the diplomacy AND the backing of the world to step in and remove any government terrorising its own civilians WITHOUT the ulterior motive of gaining resources for their own particular interests for times ahead. The poor, the hungry, the abused don't always have the courage or ability to stand up and fight back without support from outside. They endure - because this is all they can do, sometimes.

 

[blunt_trauma]

I have no problem with aiding the people of Haiti, it's what the US does. It's what we've always done. Always.

My beef is with the media and certain politicians that are trying to turn this disaster into something more than what it is, and what it is is a natural and human disaster.

There are people in the media and some politicians that are calling for a general immigration amnesty for the people of Haiti. What is the plan there, to empty that half of the island? There are politicians that are talking of 'loaning' aid to Haiti. One can only presume that the plan there is to use the indebtedness to coerce the government to do the bidding of the US politicians. Considering the fact that the chances of EVER being repaid is close to zero we are talking perpetual national enslavement for the Hatians. There are a group in the press that are trying to turn this into another symbol of racism, as if the earthquake would have never occured if the US wasn't such a racist nation. (I can't even begin to try to explain the convoluted logic they are using to come up with that conclusion.) Obama is making noises as if this is another opportunity at nation building (see 'loans' above).

This is nothing more than a humanitarian effort, justified and morally required. You go do what you can to help ease the suffering then you get your ass out and perhaps, down the line, you'll get a "Thank You" note and that's the most you should expect. These farcical attempts to turn the disaster into so socio-political lever is just a leveraged attempt at quo quid pro that turns a noble effort into a extortive business deal.

The Haitians have to solve their own long term problems and in the meantime we have to help them in this hour of need because we have no other morally justifiable alternative.

Ishmael

so you're not dead after all.

 

[butters]

I have no problem with aiding the people of Haiti, it's what the US does. It's what we've always done. Always.

My beef is with the media and certain politicians that are trying to turn this disaster into something more than what it is, and what it is is a natural and human disaster.

There are people in the media and some politicians that are calling for a general immigration amnesty for the people of Haiti. What is the plan there, to empty that half of the island? There are politicians that are talking of 'loaning' aid to Haiti. One can only presume that the plan there is to use the indebtedness to coerce the government to do the bidding of the US politicians. Considering the fact that the chances of EVER being repaid is close to zero we are talking perpetual national enslavement for the Hatians. There are a group in the press that are trying to turn this into another symbol of racism, as if the earthquake would have never occured if the US wasn't such a racist nation. (I can't even begin to try to explain the convoluted logic they are using to come up with that conclusion.) Obama is making noises as if this is another opportunity at nation building (see 'loans' above).

This is nothing more than a humanitarian effort, justified and morally required. You go do what you can to help ease the suffering then you get your ass out and perhaps, down the line, you'll get a "Thank You" note and that's the most you should expect. These farcical attempts to turn the disaster into so socio-political lever is just a leveraged attempt at quo quid pro that turns a noble effort into a extortive business deal.

The Haitians have to solve their own long term problems and in the meantime we have to help them in this hour of need because we have no other morally justifiable alternative.

Ishmael

this makes a lot of sense. imo.

 

[butters]

Noob. This IS the right wing American philosophy. I'm all right Jack and devil take the hindmost.

my exposure to right-wing american philosophy is, thankfully, limited.

 

[butters]

yes, people in each nation are just a big homogeneous blob.
there were no Iraqis standing up to saddam and ending up in prison torture rooms,
and there was nobody in haiti trying to change things and improve things, struggling for their humanity.
and you support obama.
because there are no individuals.

sigh

i wish i had your economy with words when it comes to prose

 

[Sean]

so you're not dead after all.

Unfortunately.

 

[blunt_trauma]

sigh

i wish i had your economy with words when it comes to prose

my writing? i like to call it ''being lazy''.

 

[butters]

my writing? i like to call it ''being lazy''.

let's be civil and call it succinct
i tend to rabbit as i dig, seeking answers, truths - you just slap it down on the slab and say - there ya go!

 

[Saint Peter]

Quite the cunning linguist.

 

[hogjack]

When did they stand up for themselves and fight back against tyranny?

Maybe they'll fight for Liberty and Prosperity.

If you haven't had a chance to read it find a copy of Frisco's (aka the Cap'n; aka AJ) wonderful book of poetry, Tyranny, Liberty and Prosperity: Where the Majestic Eagle Flies and Thrives.

The post borrows from his insightful, evocative and stirring poem, "No Maybe About It, Bitches, Fight for Right":

Maybe now they'll catch the fever to do something about their plight.
Maybe, yes just maybe they will do it right.

Maybe they'll fight for Liberty and Prosperity.
Maybe they'll stand up despite temerity.

Maybe some slaves are hard to motivate.
Maybe, yes just maybe they won't celebrate.

 

[butters]

If you haven't had a chance to read it find a copy of Frisco's (aka the Cap'n; aka AJ) wonderful book of poetry, Tyranny, Liberty and Prosperity: Where the Majestic Eagle Flies and Thrives.

The post borrows from his insightful, evocative and stirring poem, "No Maybe About It, Bitches, Fight for Right":

Maybe now they'll catch the fever to do something about their plight.
Maybe, yes just maybe they will do it right.

Maybe they'll fight for Liberty and Prosperity.
Maybe they'll stand up despite temerity.

Maybe some slaves are hard to motivate.
Maybe, yes just maybe they won't celebrate.

my fingers itch to edit that

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[butters]

It's already happening, the scale of which is limited by the ability of the infrastructure there to handle it's distribution, logistics, etc. There's already tons of supplies there at the airport but little means of distribution so far, it takes a little time to set it all up.

yes, v, i know. aid has been sent by the brits and no doubt almost every other country able to send. that wasn't the quibble at all and most here are no doubt thankful for the speedy response.

it was with individuals expressing themselves here with regards to their total lack of feelings for other humans in distress and AJ sidetracking that by asking if the US ought to be expected to go into Haiti and completely rebuild/reorganise their country.

 

[unregistered]