Guns in WWI, specifically rifles.

[myrionomos]

I have set out a fairly detailed plot for a story but have run into a problem.

The story is set in NE France in early 1918; German reservists have been called upon to fight. These are middle aged men with families who would on the whole rather be elsewhere. They are opposed to a small force of young Americans fresh in spirit and out for adventure. The part of the line these soldiers find themselves on is thinly occupied and not very important. They each take and retake a tiny hamlet now mostly deserted except for a widow with two daughters and the village priest plus a few local bit players.

I am conscious that if one gets the factual detail of any war situation wrong the military experts will jump on the author, but I want to include a few details of their armaments for effect.

It came down to what guns they might use. My research indicated that the Germans used the Mauser which was accurate and well made but slow firing. However reservists might not be issued with them

The Austrians used the Steyr Mannlicher which was pretty good and almost unbreakable. Only Austrian Empire troops used them.

The French used the Leber and later the Berthier, the former being unreliable. American troops used both early on from time to time.

The British used the fast firing Lee Enfield .303 and so did the Americans using both Brit and American(Springfield versions).

However the Russian Gun, the Mosin Nagant is the most interesting The Germans captured tens of thousands of them early in the war and issued them to their own reserve troops. In addition about 750,000 Russian rifles were made in America for export to Russia. After Russia capitulated in 1917 there were still 200,000 un delivered Russian rifles left in the USA, and apparently these were issued to the US army. My question is, were the Russian rifles ever used by American troops in the front line?

It would be a nice twist if I could have these soldiers shooting at each other with similar rifles.

Any thoughts?

 

[estragon]

See http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/mosinfrench.asp

Unclear, but doubtful. AFAIK, the only non-US rifle used by AEF in any quantity were Berthier rifles, primarily issued to African-American units fighting alongside French Foreign Legion.

My late brother-in-law owned a Moisin-Nagant 1891. He said it was a reliable weapon.

 

[JackLuis]

Americans carried the Springfield 1903 or the 1917 Enfield, built by Remington, mostly in the Eddystone arsnel. Most of the Americans carried 1917s due to the lack of capacity of the Springfield armory.
Alvin York carried and used the 19717 when he won the CMH.

It is highly unlikly that the Moslin was issued to US troops as the ammunition was probably unavailable in quantity.

 

[estragon]

True. The Moisin-Nagant fired a 7.62mm (.308) cartridge, and the Springfields were .30-06.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

True. The Moisin-Nagant fired a 7.62mm (.308) cartridge, and the Springfields were .30-06.

The bullet diameters are the same but that doesn't mean anything. What counts is the cartridge case size. If you put too small a cartridge into a chamber it will rupture and that can be disastrous. If you try and put too large a case in, the bolt won't close and it's basically useless.

The Mauser 98 is no more 'slow-firing' than any other bolt action rifle. The difference in the British and German rates of fire was the training the British soldiers got. Now, when it comes to machine guns, the German's had a significantly greater rate of fire but you didn't ask about that.

 

[estragon]

VM, true about rates of fire. The SMLE and the 98Mauser did not, AFAIK, have longer throws in their respective bolts or other mechanical differences such that their theoretical rates of fire differed significantly. However, the British Army training dwelt heavily on rates and accuracy of fire. Barbara Tuchman quoted a German General as saying one of his regiments was "shot flat" in August 1914, and thought the British had automatic weapons.

 

[oggbashan]

VM, true about rates of fire. The SMLE and the 98Mauser did not, AFAIK, have longer throws in their respective bolts or other mechanical differences such that their theoretical rates of fire differed significantly. However, the British Army training dwelt heavily on rates and accuracy of fire. Barbara Tuchman quoted a German General as saying one of his regiments was "shot flat" in August 1914, and thought the British had automatic weapons.

That was true of the "Old Contemptibles", the regular troops of the first British Expeditionary Force, but not true of the conscripts later in the war.

The senior officer responsible for pre -WW1 training of infantry in the use of the SMLE insisted on rapid aimed rifle fire to compensate for the lack of machine guns that the General Staff and the Treasury thought were unnecessary.

It took far too long into the war to equip British regiments with a reasonable number of machine guns. Like French reliance on 'elan' instead of equipment, the British generals thought that good training was better than automatic weapons. Both myths killed far too many troops.

The 98 Mauser was slightly more difficult to aim quickly than the SMLE. It was a minor difference but could explain why the Germans were initially surprised by the fast accurate fire from the British - faster than they could achieve, but they had machine guns instead. The British advantage was useful in a fluid battlefield when machine guns could not be deployed quickly, but was nullified by trench warfare.

Snipers using the 98 Mauser and the SMLE were equally effective because time between shots was not critical.

 

[rgraham666]

The Germans made up for their lack of mobile machine guns by using as many Lewis guns as they could capture. They even issued a manual for it in German.

 

[Weird Harold]

It is highly unlikly that the Moslin was issued to US troops as the ammunition was probably unavailable in quantity.

A bit of research shows that Mosin-Nagant rifles were issued and used in combat by US troops only in the Archangel and Murmansk areas during 1918-19 -- 8,000 US troops sent to protect stockpiles of war materiel from a german offensive through Finland and Communist offensives against the "White Russians."

Presumably, 30-06 and English .303 would have been in shorter supply than the stockpiles of 7.62x54R they were sent to protect.

ETA: the only other Mosin Nagants used by the US were restricted to training bases and national guard home defense. None were sent overseas with US troops.

 

[myrionomos]

Thank you Harold for your succinct comments. Your comments were backed up by a detailed pm I received. Apparently, as you say the remaining Mosin Nagant rifles never left the US after Russia capitulated. It appears that many were sold to private buyers after the war and many ended up with the Finnish army - though the latter came from Russian stocks.

Ogg's and VM's comments about training are interesting. The regular army(old contemptibles) soldiers were very effective users of the Lee Enfield but the new conscripts were not. The History of the Devon Regiment for example records that at the battle of Loos in August 1915, the first major battle involving conscripts, many men were lost advancing across open ground against machine gun fire from 3 sides. The author noted that it was a pity that the men had received very little musketry practice and in too many cases had only drilled with wooden replica rifles!

I suspect however that these unfortunates may just as well have been armed with those wooden replicas.

Sadly little was learned at Loos for the even bigger disaster at the Somme.

Thank you all for your comments. The problem for me now is that the research has become as interesting as the story itself!

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Having a degree in History, I fully concur. The sensation showed up again when I was doing strategic intelligence research for the Army. Yeah, I got decorated for my report but that was a non-issue. What was fun was being able to once again play the world's best game--Go Find Out!