Gun control ... actual question

[Que]

Nope, no gun problem here.. What a sad story..

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/143791...4294547d/ss_deputy-shoots-ex-girlfriend,.html

Deputy shoots ex-girlfriend, kills himself while on duty

Surveillance footage released by cops in Florida on Friday shows a sheriff’s deputy taunting his ex-girlfriend with his service pistol just moments before shooting her with it and taking his own life.

How is the gun even part of the problem here? I'm assuming that a sheriff's deputy even if unarmed would be just as macho and capable as you claim to be. How is it that he couldn't just as easily have used a knife or a blunt object against an undoubtedly smaller and weaker woman?

Maybe we should be like the UK and have our Police Departments unarmed?

 

[richard_daily]

A fairly thorough vetting process.

Nope, no gun problem here.. What a sad story..

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/143791...4294547d/ss_deputy-shoots-ex-girlfriend,.html

Deputy shoots ex-girlfriend, kills himself while on duty

Surveillance footage released by cops in Florida on Friday shows a sheriff’s deputy taunting his ex-girlfriend with his service pistol just moments before shooting her with it and taking his own life.

Good thing that fairly thorough vetting process!

 

[cowslinger64]

How is the gun even part of the problem here? I'm assuming that a sheriff's deputy even if unarmed would be just as macho and capable as you claim to be. How is it that he couldn't just as easily have used a knife or a blunt object against an undoubtedly smaller and weaker woman?

Maybe we should be like the UK and have our Police Departments unarmed?

I suppose he could have just thrown a knife at her, or his car...you know, cause those are dangerous too.

I guess it's too bad you weren't the boyfriend... she could have broken off one of your bony arms and beat you with it.

The point of my post was... you can never know who is wacked, and allowing just anyone to own a shit load of guns, or guns that fire a bazillion rounds a second, isn't very smart to a lot of us.. and for the thousandth time, I am not anti gun..

 

[Rightguide]

I suppose he could have just thrown a knife at her, or his car...you know, cause those are dangerous too.

Not with a car, can't be. They're licensed, registered, emission controlled, permitted, total government regulation of design and manufacture process. We're safe from cars...oh wait.

 

[cowslinger64]

Not with a car, can't be. They're licensed, registered, emission controlled, permitted, total government regulation of design and manufacture process. We're safe from cars...oh wait.

You missed the joke, dummy.


Compare intentional rammings with a car verses people shot and killed... Your argument is stupid.

 

[richard_daily]

I suppose he could have just thrown a knife at her, or his car...you know, cause those are dangerous too.

I guess it's too bad you weren't the boyfriend... she could have broken off one of your bony arms and beat you with it.

The point of my post was... you can never know who is wacked, and allowing just anyone to own a shit load of guns, or guns that fire a bazillion rounds a second, isn't very smart to a lot of us.. and for the thousandth time, I am not anti gun..

You are anti-gun.

 

[cowslinger64]

You are anti-gun.

Well other than that not being true... The fact that I've owned guns and hunted should have made that clear.

Your statement that hunting was stupid was all I needed to hear from you.

 

[Rightguide]

You missed the joke, dummy.


Compare intentional rammings with a car verses people shot and killed... Your argument is stupid.

Not really, most people shot are shot on purpose just like intentionally rammed people.

 

[cowslinger64]

Not really, most people shot are shot on purpose just like intentionally rammed people.

Surely you're not suggesting that there are equally as many shot and kills as there are intentional rammings with a car.

Not even you are that dumb.. I'd hope

 

[Rightguide]

Surely you're not suggesting that there are equally as many shot and kills as there are intentional rammings with a car.

Not even you are that dumb.. I'd hope

You said that I didn't,

 

[BotanyBoy]

You keep saying the same stupid shit and offering up the same lies, and yes I will be a broken record.

Your story... is just bullshit.

It doesn't matter what I say, you sound like a broken record either way.

Good thing that fairly thorough vetting process!

LOL!!

Government is perfect comrade!!

You missed the joke, dummy.

He's not the one who missed the joke, dummy.

Well other than that not being true.

So you support peoples right to keep and bear arms then ?

Surely you're not suggesting that there are equally as many shot and kills as there are intentional rammings with a car.

Not even you are that dumb.. I'd hope

If you knew how to read you'd see there was no suggestion of the sort.

Learn to read Detroit.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You said that I didn't,

He doesn't understand what he even said much less what anyone else is saying.

The guy is a fuckin' borderline illiterate meat stick.

 

[Que]

I suppose he could have just thrown a knife at her, or his car...you know, cause those are dangerous too.

I guess it's too bad you weren't the boyfriend... she could have broken off one of your bony arms and beat you with it.

The point of my post was... you can never know who is wacked, and allowing just anyone to own a shit load of guns, or guns that fire a bazillion rounds a second, isn't very smart to a lot of us.. and for the thousandth time, I am not anti gun..

You cannot get any more anti-gun then suggesting that someone who works for the sheriff's department should not have had a gun.

 

[Rightguide]

He doesn't understand what he even said much less what anyone else is saying.

The guy is a fuckin' borderline illiterate meat stick.

Could be his environment, he probably lives in the Brightmoor district of the Detroit cesspool where crack particles are an airborne contaminate.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Could be his environment, he probably lives in the Brightmoor district of the Detroit cesspool where crack particles are an airborne contaminate.

Public school.....

 

[Rightguide]

Public school.....

Must have been grade inflation that moved him from the 6th grade to graduation.

 

[cowslinger64]

Lovely.. I've got three of the biggest idiots in here all in a lather.

Yes.. I think Americans have the right to have guns. I support that. However, not all guns.. And not any maniac.. You turds are good examples of why there should be gun control.

It's funny... Three idiots, none have been laid any time in what, years? Try getting a life off this board, maybe it'll cure your stoopid.. Or at least the bitter whining.

 

[Rightguide]

Lovely.. I've got three of the biggest idiots in here all in a lather.

Yes.. I think Americans have the right to have guns. I support that. However, not all guns.. And not any maniac.. You turds are good examples of why there should be gun control.

It's funny... Three idiots, none have been laid any time in what, years? Try getting a life off this board, maybe it'll cure your stoopid.. Or at least the bitter whining.

Who's whining? We're just contemplating your environment and the horribly stunted level of your intellectual development.

 

[KimGordon67]

Good thing that fairly thorough vetting process!

My comment was related to the context with which I'm familiar. Which I think was pretty obvious from the rest of the post which you chose to edit out, even though it was kind of relevant.

 

[cowslinger64]

Who's whining? We're just contemplating your environment and the horribly stunted level of your intellectual development.

You're the dumbass that thinks no one knows you're vette

 

[BotanyBoy]

Lovely.. I've got three of the biggest idiots in here all in a lather.

LOL you don't have any means to get me in a lather.

Yes.. I think Americans have the right to have guns. I support that. However, not all guns.. And not any maniac.. You turds are good examples of why there should be gun control.

OMG....he might be capable of discussion.

Which guns?

Define maniac.....

Ohhhhh back to personal insults, probably because you lack the mental facilities to formulate any sort of argument or reasoning behind your position.

(D) told you to say that and like a good stooge you will.

It's funny... Three idiots, none have been laid any time in what, years? Try getting a life off this board, maybe it'll cure your stoopid.. Or at least the bitter whining.

I have no desire to get laid, at all, haven't in years.

You'll have to go back to the playground and find a new insult there publick school.

Who's whining?

 

[Rightguide]

You're the dumbass that thinks no one knows you're vette

You're a crazy hallucinating back bencher.

 

[Hypoxia]

https://www.lambiek.net/artists/image/c/cobb_ron/cobb_progress.gif

 

[KimGordon67]

So I guess what puzzles me about this ongoing discussion is this ... Que is quite right that the initial question I asked sort of elided the contextual difference between the US and other places, in that, due to various historical quirks, the US is now awash with guns (and yes, when the number of [I assume just legal] guns is higher than the number of people, I don't think 'awash' is particularly emotive), and I understand that, living in the US now, it's possible that owning a gun is necessary to make yourself a player on a lever field.
BUT what I don't understand is the apparently underlying suggestion that this is actually a good thing ... that widespread gun ownership somehow makes a society 'better'.
First - the argument that it creates a 'more polite society' - I cannot see a skerrick of evidence to support that. (In fact, just yesterday an American gun ownership (and, I assume from how he spoke, Second Amendment supporter - sorry if I got that wrong) PMed me to apologise on behalf of ... men? gun owners? Americans? ... for the fairly shitty treatment I've had throughout this thread. So I don't think that even the immediate evidence supports a correlation between gun ownership and politeness.)
Secondly - the argument that it makes everyone safer. Absolutely NO evidence to support that. In fact, if the 'level playing field' concept is right, it just puts you all in the same position as no gun ownership. Crime rates in the US aren't lower than the rest of world, neither are violent crime rates or homicide rates.
This, however, has in some instances been further argued on the basis that it makes women safer. Again, NO evidence to support this.
Then there's the apparent 'need' for a well-armed militia ... well, there's perilously little evidence that this has made the US a 'safer' place. Maybe, given the high level of gun ownership, that's true ... but it just sort of brings me back to my original point.

Here's another story. This quite literally happened to the daughter of a work colleague of mine last week. She was home along and heard someone in the house. Being obviously extremely sensible, she went and hid in her room until the person had gone. However, when she came out, it turns out the burglar was still in the house. Somehow the young girl got them to leave ... and, in a sequence of events that I'm a little unclear on, almost got a knife off the burglar.
Now, obviously one can't really know what would have happened if there'd been guns involved, but when facing an obviously jittery burglar, I'm pretty sure I'd prefer them to NOT have a gun. Yes, clearly the daughter could/would have had a gun to protect herself ... oh, except she's 12. I doubt that even in the US it's legal for a 12 year old to have access to a firearm.
What I took from this story is that her parents have done a freaking excellent job of raising a kid who, in a difficult situation, acted calmly and appropriately. And that it's possible to raise young women who don't think they're too weak to defend themselves in the absence of a gun ... especially if no one involved in the equation has one.

So yes, maybe living in the US in the 21st century gun ownership is fairly sensible (maybe). But don't try to tell the rest of us we're 'wrong' or 'pussies' because we've not ended up in that situation.

 

[BotanyBoy]

BUT what I don't understand is the apparently underlying suggestion that this is actually a good thing ... that widespread gun ownership somehow makes a society 'better'.

I think few argue it makes a society better, even when they try to dress it up like that.

Most argue that it's better for the individual.

As a collectivist who's almost if not entirely incapable of looking at anything from the perspective of the individual will have a near if not totally impossible time trying to understand it.

This, however, has in some instances been further argued on the basis that it makes women safer. Again, NO evidence to support this.

Sure there is, if you are able to remover yourself from the collectivist mindset and look at things from the individual perspective.

You're a woman. If a 6'3" 200lb athletic guy with a knife is attacking you do you think your odds of survival are better with a rape whistle or a gun?

You seem to think being totally unarmed woman vs over powering or even armed man is the best way to go.

I'm pretty sure I'd prefer them to NOT have a gun.

You can't ensure that.....not even in your country is that the reality.

Yes, clearly the daughter could/would have had a gun to protect herself ... oh, except she's 12. I doubt that even in the US it's legal for a 12 year old to have access to a firearm.

15 y/o defends home with AR15

Woman defends herself with hand cannon and kills possible serial killer.

You can find more with a google search.

So yes, maybe living in the US in the 21st century gun ownership is fairly sensible (maybe). But don't try to tell the rest of us we're 'wrong' or 'pussies' because we've not ended up in that situation.

There you sit judging our gun policy while getting all touchy about us sending the same judgmental shit back at you LOL my gawd the smug could not be any thicker.

How about don't tell us we're wrong because we see and do things differently from the very government we told not long ago to fuck off and mind it's own bidnizz...and we won't call you a bunch of collectivist pussies.