Gun Advice

[Roxanne Appleby]

Tis a shame this beautiful weapon was taken over by the movies who seem to think every gangsta owns one. It really is a great weapon with a bad rep. Except the rep where it jams a lot - that rep is true.

The Israelis make gorgeous weapons of all kinds. The lunatics usually do (no offense to anyone of Israeli descent - but the "government", military and paramilitary of Israel really are nuts - just finished a long piece on them)

~WOK (Who has her own well crafted bad-rep to uphold)

Seriously, I always thought that submachine gun that the Italian carabibieri have (Beretta, I think) really is beautiful. It has sexy, Ferrari-like lines, as you would expect from the Italians, rather than he usual brutal, blocky lines of other submachineguns.

I don't suppose your moll could have an Italian carabinieri boyfriend, could she Aurora?

 

[The_Fool]

PAH! The Mauser is hardly obscure!

~WOK

True....just old...*G*

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

re. 9mm confusion. "9 mm" is just a measurement that refers to the diameter of a bullet. There is a particular pistol round called the "9 mm parabellum." It is rather small and you can fit a lot of them into a pistol magazine, which is partly why it's so popular. This is the 9mm that is used by all military submachineguns and the one referred to in modern automatic handguns. As some have noted it's not considered particularly powerful, although that term is relative. It's more than powerful enough to kill a human being. Unless hit in the brain a hopped up meth addict may not drop in his tracks when shot with it, which is why considered not "powerful."

There are various rifle cartidges that also fire a bullet that is 9 mm in diameter. The bullet is shaped different, and the cartridge that holds the powder is much bigger. A 9 mm rifle round is a BIG cartridge. The M-16 fires a 5.56 mm diameter bullet. The US M-1 Garand rifle of WWII (and current U.S. machineguns and sniper rifles) fire a bullet that is 7.62 mm in diameter. The German G-98 or K-98 rifles of WW I and WWII fired a 7.92 mm diameter bullet (often referred to as an 8 mm, even though it's not, really. It's a common designation for the round, and not incorrect to use that term. )

To my knowledge there has never been a widely used military rifle that uses a 9 mm diameter bullet. There have been a number of sporting rifle cartridges over the decades that fire a 9 mm diameter bullet. Some of those sporting rifles were built by Mauser, or built using the Mauser-designed bolt action system. Therefore, it is not incorrect in a narrow sense to say that there have been 9 mm mauser rifles.

How'm I doin' WOK?

Aurora, if you're still around, you can stop reading about 10 posts ago. The gun nuts and history buff took this thread off into the tall grass long ago.

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

True....just old...*G*

Old - yes - but not obscure!

~WOK

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

re. 9mm confusion. "9 mm" is just a measurement that refers to the diameter of a bullet. There is a particular pistol round called the "9 mm parabellum." It is rather small and you can fit a lot of them into a pistol magazine, which is partly why it's so popular. This is the 9mm that is used by all military submachineguns and the one referred to in modern automatic handguns. As some have noted it's not considered particularly powerful, although that term is relative. It's more than powerful enough to kill a human being. Unless hit in the brain a hopped up meth addict may not drop in his tracks when shot with it, which is why considered not "powerful."

There are various rifle cartidges that also fire a bullet that is 9 mm in diameter. The bullet is shaped different, and the cartridge that holds the powder is much bigger. A 9 mm rifle round is a BIG cartridge. The M-16 fires a 5.56 mm diameter bullet. The US M-1 Garand rifle of WWII (and current U.S. machineguns and sniper rifles) fire a bullet that is 7.62 mm in diameter. The German G-98 or K-98 rifles of WW I and WWII fired a 7.92 mm diameter bullet (often referred to as an 8 mm, even though it's not, really. It's a common designation for the round, and not incorrect to use that term. )

To my knowledge there has never been a widely used military rifle that uses a 9 mm diameter bullet. There have been a number of sporting rifle cartridges over the decades that fire a 9 mm diameter bullet. Some of those sporting rifles were built by Mauser, or built using the Mauser-designed bolt action system. Therefore, it is not incorrect in a narrow sense to say that there have been 9 mm mauser rifles.

How'm I doin' WOK?

Aurora, if you're still around, you can stop reading about 10 posts ago. The gun nuts and history buff took this thread off into the tall grass long ago.

What you are talking about is known as the "luger" bullet as well and gained pupularity in SMGs during WWI and is considered the paradigm of reliable ammunition which has resulted in its widespread use. It comes with different loads and the full metal jacket ball load has been used in US military for the Beretta M9 (Pistol)since 1985 as well as in a variety of SMGs.

Yes- 9mm is the diameter and 19mm is the standard length. The 9mm Mauser rifle I was speaking of is not the same as the one used by the Nazi's in WWII (It was a mauser - but not the same one). As you so correctly point out - the 9mm rifle made by mauser is a sporting rifle but it IS widely used by military and paramilitary in Africa (although going into disuse). If memory serves me correctly that was a 9mmx52mm (maybe 54) and as you said, it is the same diameter but has more load inside of it (although not "powder" - they are balls). In a rifle and with such a large load the 9mm Mauser had quite a bit of stopping power over the standard Luger bullet.

Speaking of stopping power - the standard luger is ideal for SEMIs and AUTOS because it is low on stopping power. But it is a heavyweigth compared to the 22. If you really want true stopping power you should get a hand grenade (and a nifty launcher - those are TOOOOOO fun!) or a 45.

And Roxanne - I have to say you are rather the whiz at weaponry. Need a job? I know of a few publications who may be looking to replace a wron out and underpaid staff writer soon. Although as I've said - the fan mail is creepy.

~WOK (creeping herself out)

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Speaking of stopping power - the standard luger is ideal for SEMIs and AUTOS because it is low on stopping power. But it is a heavyweigth compared to the 22. If you really want true stopping power you should get a hand grenade (and a nifty launcher - those are TOOOOOO fun!) or a 45.

And Roxanne - I have to say you are rather the whiz at weaponry. Need a job? I know of a few publications who may be looking to replace a wron out and underpaid staff writer soon. Although as I've said - the fan mail is creepy.

~WOK (creeping herself out)

I think I'll stick to lesbian porn for the time being, but you never know. I'm actually a history buff and the weaponry knowledge is an offshoot of that. Colly was really the master of historic weapons knowledge. I swear, the woman had a stack of Janes on her nightstand! Check out her waxing profound on the type 93 or "long lance" Japanese torpedo of WWII in this thead: https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=16553951

Re. stopping power and grenade launchers:
A discussion subject that will put smiles on any gun nut is, "What is the best handgun to carry in Alaskan grizzly country, where you're walking through willow thickets and suddenly an angry bear is charging you from 15 feet away?"

Based on your post I have a new answer: A sawed off M-79 grenade launcher ("blooper.") Just kidding - at short range that would be problematic, for reasons of fusing and, um, "collateral damage" (getting shrapnel blown back in your face.) My real answer has always been this: An Ingram 9mm or Uzi-pistol submachinegun! Or a Beretta 93, or whatever they call that Glock full-auto pistol, with 30 round magazines. Or a full-auto H&K VP 70. The heck with those giant .45 and .50 revolvers that will break your wrist and knock you on your fanny - 'ol Griz isn't going to be all that impressed anyway. Now if you dump 30 rounds of hardball into him in about three seconds (I want penetration, not expansion in this instance), I think he would be impressed.

 

[SeaCat]

If I recall correctly wasn't the 38 Special Load stopped being used because while it didn't have the stopping power of a larger round it had way too much penetration? ie. it would go through the perp, through the person behind the perp, and so on?

Because of my small hands I like to use either the Berretta 92fs for general use. (I use a mixed load in the mag. One Hydroshock followed by a FMJ through the mag.)

For pure stopping power and reliability I like the Ruger Blackhawk in .41 Magnum. (Again the grip is nice for my smaller hands.) It's slower to load than most revolvers with the gate system but for six shots it's a wonder.

For Home defense, a twelve guage with bird shot up the spout can't be beat at close range.

For assasination, either a Ma Bell Special or get in close with a medium calibre handgun.

(Although if you are assured of getting in nice and close and don't worry about escape, something like a 12 guage Bangstick which looks like a cane does absolute wonders. Tilt it up, ram it home under the Diaphragm and watch them deflate.)

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

I think I'll stick to lesbian porn for the time being, but you never know. I'm actually a history buff and the weaponry knowledge is an offshoot of that. Colly was really the master of historic weapons knowledge. I swear, the woman had a stack of Janes on her nightstand! Check out her waxing profound on the type 93 or "long lance" Japanese torpedo of WWII in this thead: https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=16553951

Re. stopping power and grenade launchers:
A discussion subject that will put smiles on any gun nut is, "What is the best handgun to carry in Alaskan grizzly country, where you're walking through willow thickets and suddenly an angry bear is charging you from 15 feet away?"

Based on your post I have a new answer: A sawed off M-79 grenade launcher ("blooper.") Just kidding - at short range that would be problematic, for reasons of fusing and, um, "collateral damage" (getting shrapnel blown back in your face.) My real answer has always been this: An Ingram 9mm or Uzi-pistol submachinegun! Or a Beretta 93, or whatever they call that Glock full-auto pistol, with 30 round magazines. Or a full-auto H&K VP 70. The heck with those giant .45 and .50 revolvers that will break your wrist and knock you on your fanny - 'ol Griz isn't going to be all that impressed anyway. Now if you dump 30 rounds of hardball into him in about three seconds (I want penetration, not expansion in this instance), I think he would be impressed.

Nah, just load the M-79 with the old ShotGun Round and you're good to go.

An old trick I have heard about from many sources was to carry and over under shotgun rifle configuration. Have the Shotgun loaded with shot.

As the bear charges shoot them in the head/face area with the shotgun which will blind them at least temporarily, (as well as ruin their nose for sniffing you out.) Then you can take your time and place your shot with the rifle section.

For my part, if a Grizzly comes charging out of a thicket I either want to be in the next county, or have a squad of loaded and unlocked Grunts between me and the bear.

Cat

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

If I recall correctly wasn't the 38 Special Load stopped being used because while it didn't have the stopping power of a larger round it had way too much penetration? ie. it would go through the perp, through the person behind the perp, and so on?

Because of my small hands I like to use either the Berretta 92fs for general use. (I use a mixed load in the mag. One Hydroshock followed by a FMJ through the mag.)

For pure stopping power and reliability I like the Ruger Blackhawk in .41 Magnum. (Again the grip is nice for my smaller hands.) It's slower to load than most revolvers with the gate system but for six shots it's a wonder.

For Home defense, a twelve guage with bird shot up the spout can't be beat at close range.

For assasination, either a Ma Bell Special or get in close with a medium calibre handgun.

(Although if you are assured of getting in nice and close and don't worry about escape, something like a 12 guage Bangstick which looks like a cane does absolute wonders. Tilt it up, ram it home under the Diaphragm and watch them deflate.)

Cat

You know I am really more versed in military weapon use and not police weapon use. I know that penetration has its ups and downs in police actions (you need a gun to go through car doors AND not hit the 3 people behind the suspect).

There are a lot of ex cops who could answer this better than me.
(Maybe if you are in luck TJ Hooker will bust out and roll over your windshield before doing an elbow roll and catching a bad guy while explaining it to you. Then when you are done you can go talk to Ponch - man I love TV cops!)

~WOK

 

[Zeb_Carter]

An example of an automatic, please? I'm still a bit lost at sea here.

These are automatics or semi-autos. You pull the trigger the slide goes back ejecting the spent round, as it move back forward (because of the return spring) it picks up another round from the magizine pushing it into the breach. As the slide went back it also cocked the hammer.

http://www.preferredarms.com/Images/Semi-automatics.JPG

These are revolvers. Five to six round in a cylinder that is spun by the pulling of the trigger or the cocking of the hammer.

http://www.preferredarms.com/Images/Revolvers.JPG

 

[Weird Harold]

I appreciate whatever comments I can get on the subject, thanks.

She doesn't have any association with the military. She's an 18 year old civilian.

An 18-year-old (female) civilian probably would not know much about guns or have easy access to a specific type or model.

The most likely source for her weapon in 1994 would be an heirloom revolver or derringer -- probably in .38 Special or .41 caliber. A semi-automatic pistol would probably be 9mm (parabellem). Your character wouldn't necessarily even know what the caliber of the pistol is unless she has to buy ammunition for it.

A revolver -- especially a double-action revolver -- doesn't require a great deal of knowledge to use; they are quite literaly point-and-shoot devices.

However, I'd reduce your range from ten feet to five feet or less. I know from personal experience that it is possible to completely miss a station-wagon sized target from about fifteen feet away the very first time you fire a pistol.

As mentioned earlier, it is very difficult to shoot yourself in the heart or chest because of the awkward angle it imposes on the wrist. It is NOT however impossible, just very difficult, especially in a crowd that is likely trying to subdue the shooter (or trampling her as they try to escape.)

If I were writng this scenario, I'd provide her weapon by having a relative or friend leave a loaded weapon in the bedstand -- probably a revolver -- for her to find and not worry over-much about how much she knows about it. I'd have her shoot her victim from about four or five feet away and then suicide with a shot to the temple or the roof of her mouth.

The less you specify about the weapon, the less you give the gun-nuts to nit-pick about.

 

[Antfarmer77]

There's always the single shot pistol. The Thompson Center Contender, the old
Remington .41 single shot deringer ( the one that got Lincoln) or an antique dueling pistol. Let your heroine deliberate over that...one shot...who gets it?

 

[kbate]

Good small woman's guns --

Charter Arms Bulldog . 44 special - small comes in stainless steel and is a good gun for fiction because the name is catchy, and the caliber ".44" although not the Dirty Harry gun - gives people the image of that kind of power. It is also an interesting piece in that it is 5 shots, small (2 inch) and can fit in a handbag or fanny pack easily.

Smith and Wesson Ladysmith or Airweight -- both .38 special - (I have the airweight) and it is excellent - accurate and quite loud -- I bought mine used at a shoppe, but both have been around long enough that your shooter could find one in a back alley sale.

For a pistol - a Walther PPK .380 (James Bond) is a good choice in an automatic - fairly powerful, lightweight and commonly known.

 

[Aurora Black]

An 18-year-old (female) civilian probably would not know much about guns or have easy access to a specific type or model.

The most likely source for her weapon in 1994 would be an heirloom revolver or derringer -- probably in .38 Special or .41 caliber. A semi-automatic pistol would probably be 9mm (parabellem). Your character wouldn't necessarily even know what the caliber of the pistol is unless she has to buy ammunition for it.

A revolver -- especially a double-action revolver -- doesn't require a great deal of knowledge to use; they are quite literaly point-and-shoot devices.

However, I'd reduce your range from ten feet to five feet or less. I know from personal experience that it is possible to completely miss a station-wagon sized target from about fifteen feet away the very first time you fire a pistol.

As mentioned earlier, it is very difficult to shoot yourself in the heart or chest because of the awkward angle it imposes on the wrist. It is NOT however impossible, just very difficult, especially in a crowd that is likely trying to subdue the shooter (or trampling her as they try to escape.)

If I were writng this scenario, I'd provide her weapon by having a relative or friend leave a loaded weapon in the bedstand -- probably a revolver -- for her to find and not worry over-much about how much she knows about it. I'd have her shoot her victim from about four or five feet away and then suicide with a shot to the temple or the roof of her mouth.

The less you specify about the weapon, the less you give the gun-nuts to nit-pick about.

Thanks.

 

[Aurora Black]

Good small woman's guns --

Charter Arms Bulldog . 44 special - small comes in stainless steel and is a good gun for fiction because the name is catchy, and the caliber ".44" although not the Dirty Harry gun - gives people the image of that kind of power. It is also an interesting piece in that it is 5 shots, small (2 inch) and can fit in a handbag or fanny pack easily.

Smith and Wesson Ladysmith or Airweight -- both .38 special - (I have the airweight) and it is excellent - accurate and quite loud -- I bought mine used at a shoppe, but both have been around long enough that your shooter could find one in a back alley sale.

For a pistol - a Walther PPK .380 (James Bond) is a good choice in an automatic - fairly powerful, lightweight and commonly known.

So many choices. Wow.

 

[Antfarmer77]

Smith and Wesson Ladysmith or Airweight -- both .38 special - (I have the airweight)

The hammerless version?

 

[kbate]

The hammerless version?

No, mine has a hammer. I didn't like the hammerless because I like to target shoot.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Good small woman's guns --
Smith and Wesson .38 special - (I have the airweight)

Great minds think alike - me too. (I'll show you mine if you show me yours. And then we can play "doctor." ) Mine has a shrouded hammer but there's a little nubbing that sticks out so you can still cock it with your thumb. The shroud makes it less likely to snag in a purse. I think it's kind of ugly, though.

 

[kbate]

Great minds think alike - me too. (I'll show you mine if you show me yours. And then we can play "doctor." ) Mine has a shrouded hammer but there's a little nubbing that sticks out so you can still cock it with your thumb. The shroud makes it less likely to snag in a purse. I think it's kind of ugly, though.

Mine is prettier than yours. I know this because it is mine.

 

[R. Richard]

I don't want to turn her into Rambo, RR.

The coorect term hjere is "a floozy with an Uzi!"

 

[R. Richard]

For Home defense, a twelve guage with bird shot up the spout can't be beat at close range.

Cat

I would disagree. I use my 10 guage pump, loaded with 00 buckshot. I actually had to use the 10 guage against a home breakin. One shot did the trick and you could see ground [floor actually] through the perp after the incident.

 

[R. Richard]

"bear is charging you from 15 feet away?"

Based on your post I have a new answer: A sawed off M-79 grenade launcher ("blooper.") Just kidding - at short range that would be problematic, for reasons of fusing and, um, "collateral damage" (getting shrapnel blown back in your face.) My real answer has always been this: An Ingram 9mm or Uzi-pistol submachinegun! Or a Beretta 93, or whatever they call that Glock full-auto pistol, with 30 round magazines. Or a full-auto H&K VP 70. The heck with those giant .45 and .50 revolvers that will break your wrist and knock you on your fanny - 'ol Griz isn't going to be all that impressed anyway. Now if you dump 30 rounds of hardball into him in about three seconds (I want penetration, not expansion in this instance), I think he would be impressed.

I have just one question. What if your full-auotmatic jams? Ol' griz don't play timeout. A .475 Wildey, properly loaded, will stop a grizzley at close range with a single well placed shot.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Mine is prettier than yours. I know this because it is mine.

Yours IS prettier! Can I touch it?

 

[Aurora Black]

Yours IS prettier! Can I touch it?

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I have just one question. What if your full-auotmatic jams? Ol' griz don't play timeout.

Then I hope 'ol griz has time to pound me on rocks for a while to tenderize the meat, because I will probably be kind of tough and stringy otherwise.