Gun Advice

[wornoutkeyboard]

An example of an automatic, please? I'm still a bit lost at sea here.

Here are the classes of hand held firearms that would be encountered by your average joe:

Semi-automatic (may be single or double action)
~~ May be a hand gun or an assault weapon, etc
Single-action revolver
~~Almost exclusively a hand gun
Revolver (must manually cock)
~~Almost exclusively a handgun
Pump Action (think shotgun)
Bolt Action (think shotgun or REALLY old military handguns)
Lever-Action (unlikely to ever see)


Outside of this you get into the kinds of weaponry that are only seen in the military or para-military (or people who like to hunt deer in order to turn it into deer-bits).


Here are some examples of SEMI-automatic pistols that you may actually encounter:
Glock (17/22/21) - used frequently by the police
Intratec
Beretta (boy- too many to list model numbers - maybe a 1934 if you are looking for a .38)
Browning (M series)
Smith & Wesson (mostly 9mm)
Sig (also mostly 9mm)


Don't worry about fully automatic weapons - they are mostly seen in machine guns, submachine guns, assault rifles and machine pistols. Not something the average joe or jane would see too much of in their lifetime.

~WOK

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

In handguns, autos go back-and-forth (the slide, or top half, rides back-and-forth upon the grip and frame, which is the bottom half); revlovers go round-and-round (the cylinder that holds the bullets). The "back" part of back-and-forth action pulls the empty brass cartridge from the round that was just fired out of the chamber (or breech end of the barrel) and ejects it into the air, and in the "forth" part of the movemen the sllide strips a new cartridge from the top of the magazine or clip located in the grip-part, and jams it into the chamber, where it is ready to fire. Revolvers are simpler; the cylinder just revolves enough on each shot to line up the the next round with the barrel in front and the hammer in back. No empty cartridges are ejected - you have to unload and reload the cylinder manually after you've fired all five, six, or eight rounds in the cylinder. (I've never heard of a seven-shooter, but never say never with firearms.)

"Fully automatic" or "full-auto" means machine gun - the thing will keep shooting as long as you hold down the trigger, until the magazine runs out of rounds. "Semi-automatic" means you have to pull the trigger a separate time for each new shot, but that's all you have to do - the "back-and-forth" motion does all work described above. In civilian parlance "automatic" or "auto" almost always is short for "semi-automatic pistol." For purposes of your story that is the key piece of info. (In civilian parlance, machineguns will be referred to as "fully-automatic" or "full-auto.")

In both full- and semi-autos the back-and-forth action is powered by tapping some of the energy from the cartidge that's been fired, either by tapping a little bit of the hot expanding gases via a teeny little hole inside the barrel, or more typically in handguuns, by just using the recoil (which is the equal-and-opposite reaction half of the action that's the bullet flying out of the barrel).

And this is already way-more than you need for your story, but they say no knowledge is ever wasted, I guess.

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

In handguns, autos go back-and-forth (the slide, or top half, rides back-and-forth upon the grip and frame, which is the bottom half); revlovers go round-and-round (the cylinder that holds the bullets). The "back" part of back-and-forth action pulls the empty brass cartridge from the round that was just fired out of the chamber (or breech end of the barrel) and ejects it into the air, and in the "forth" part of the movemen the sllide strips a new cartridge from the top of the magazine or clip located in the grip-part, and jams it into the chamber, where it is ready to fire. Revolvers are simpler; the cylinder just revolves enough on each shot to line up the the next round with the barrel in front and the hammer in back. No empty cartridges are ejected - you have to unload and reload the cylinder manually after you've fired all five, six, or eight rounds in the cylinder. (I've never heard of a seven-shooter, but never say never with firearms.)

"Fully automatic" or "full-auto" means machine gun - the thing will keep shooting as long as you hold down the trigger, until the magazine runs out of rounds. "Semi-automatic" means you have to pull the trigger a separate time for each new shot, but that's all you have to do - the "back-and-forth" motion does all work described above. In civilian parlance "automatic" or "auto" almost always is short for "semi-automatic pistol." For purposes of your story that is the key piece of info. (In civilian parlance, machineguns will be referred to as "fully-automatic" or "full-auto.")

In both full- and semi-autos the back-and-forth action is powered by tapping some of the energy from the cartidge that's been fired, either by tapping a little bit of the hot expanding gases via a teeny little hole inside the barrel, or more typically in handguuns, by just using the recoil (which is the equal-and-opposite reaction half of the action that's the bullet flying out of the barrel).

And this is already way-more than you need for your story, but they say no knowledge is ever wasted, I guess.

Just to clarify a point. What Roxanne is describing is a DOUBLE ACTION semi automatic. A single action still requires that you cock the hammer. It is just nice enough to chamber the round for you (and expel the casing).

Equal and opposite - lol - that is very sexy of you (i'm a sucker for sexy brains)- in the happy hand-holding lollypop world of weapon writing we nerds call it the "3rd action" (referring to newton's 3rd law of motion - every action has an equal and opposite reaction).

~WOK

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Just to clarify a point. What Roxanne is describing is a DOUBLE ACTION semi automatic. A single action still requires that you cock the hammer. It is just nice enough to chamber the round for you (and expel the casing).

Equal and opposite - lol - that is very sexy of you (i'm a sucker for sexy brains)- in the happy hand-holding lollypop world of weapon writing we nerds call it the "3rd action" (referring to newton's 3rd law of motion - every action has an equal and opposite reaction).

~WOK

Correcto-mondo. In most so-called "single-action" semi-automatic pistols ("automatics" or "autos") you only have to manually cock the hammer for the FIRST ROUND. The back-and-forth action does it for you on subsequent rounds. (As with all things gun there are exceptions.) The classic example of a singe-action automatic is the military's .45 caliber Automatic Colt Pistol (.45 ACP, or just "forty-five.") If you want to start an endless debate amongs gun nuts present them with a bunch of beer and say, ".45 auto: unloaded chamber or cocked-and-locked - what's safer and better?" That's all you need to do, they'll take it from there. What does that question mean? That, dear Aurora, really is more than you need to know for this story, but if you want to know I have no doubt that there are those here who will tell you, in loving and extensive detail.

 

[Aurora Black]

Here are the classes of hand held firearms that would be encountered by your average joe:

Semi-automatic (may be single or double action)
~~ May be a hand gun or an assault weapon, etc
Single-action revolver
~~Almost exclusively a hand gun
Revolver (must manually cock)
~~Almost exclusively a handgun
Pump Action (think shotgun)
Bolt Action (think shotgun or REALLY old military handguns)
Lever-Action (unlikely to ever see)


Outside of this you get into the kinds of weaponry that are only seen in the military or para-military (or people who like to hunt deer in order to turn it into deer-bits).


Here are some examples of SEMI-automatic pistols that you may actually encounter:
Glock (17/22/21) - used frequently by the police
Intratec
Beretta (boy- too many to list model numbers - maybe a 1934 if you are looking for a .38)
Browning (M series)
Smith & Wesson (mostly 9mm)
Sig (also mostly 9mm)


Don't worry about fully automatic weapons - they are mostly seen in machine guns, submachine guns, assault rifles and machine pistols. Not something the average joe or jane would see too much of in their lifetime.

~WOK

*scribbles furiously in notebook* This is great stuff!

 

[Aurora Black]

In handguns, autos go back-and-forth (the slide, or top half, rides back-and-forth upon the grip and frame, which is the bottom half); revlovers go round-and-round (the cylinder that holds the bullets). The "back" part of back-and-forth action pulls the empty brass cartridge from the round that was just fired out of the chamber (or breech end of the barrel) and ejects it into the air, and in the "forth" part of the movemen the sllide strips a new cartridge from the top of the magazine or clip located in the grip-part, and jams it into the chamber, where it is ready to fire. Revolvers are simpler; the cylinder just revolves enough on each shot to line up the the next round with the barrel in front and the hammer in back. No empty cartridges are ejected - you have to unload and reload the cylinder manually after you've fired all five, six, or eight rounds in the cylinder. (I've never heard of a seven-shooter, but never say never with firearms.)

"Fully automatic" or "full-auto" means machine gun - the thing will keep shooting as long as you hold down the trigger, until the magazine runs out of rounds. "Semi-automatic" means you have to pull the trigger a separate time for each new shot, but that's all you have to do - the "back-and-forth" motion does all work described above. In civilian parlance "automatic" or "auto" almost always is short for "semi-automatic pistol." For purposes of your story that is the key piece of info. (In civilian parlance, machineguns will be referred to as "fully-automatic" or "full-auto.")

In both full- and semi-autos the back-and-forth action is powered by tapping some of the energy from the cartidge that's been fired, either by tapping a little bit of the hot expanding gases via a teeny little hole inside the barrel, or more typically in handguuns, by just using the recoil (which is the equal-and-opposite reaction half of the action that's the bullet flying out of the barrel).

And this is already way-more than you need for your story, but they say no knowledge is ever wasted, I guess.

It definitely won't be wasted. Thanks.

 

[Aurora Black]

If you want to start an endless debate amongs gun nuts present them with a bunch of beer and say, ".45 auto: unloaded chamber or cocked-and-locked - what's safer and better?" That's all you need to do, they'll take it from there. What does that question mean? That, dear Aurora, really is more than you need to know for this story, but if you want to know I have no doubt that there are those here who will tell you, in loving and extensive detail.

I think I'll pass this time around.

 

[R. Richard]

In handguns, autos go back-and-forth (the slide, or top half, rides back-and-forth upon the grip and frame, which is the bottom half); revlovers go round-and-round (the cylinder that holds the bullets). The "back" part of back-and-forth action pulls the empty brass cartridge from the round that was just fired out of the chamber (or breech end of the barrel) and ejects it into the air, and in the "forth" part of the movemen the sllide strips a new cartridge from the top of the magazine or clip located in the grip-part, and jams it into the chamber, where it is ready to fire. Revolvers are simpler; the cylinder just revolves enough on each shot to line up the the next round with the barrel in front and the hammer in back. No empty cartridges are ejected - you have to unload and reload the cylinder manually after you've fired all five, six, or eight rounds in the cylinder. (I've never heard of a seven-shooter, but never say never with firearms.)

The LeMat revolver was a 10 shooter. There was a nine chambered revolver cylinder that revolved around a shotgun barrel. There are rumours that a version was produced with a six chambered revolver cylinder, but I have never been able
to find documentation regarding a "seven shooter."

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

You know what I find interrestng about posting to threads like this? (Besides the fact that I find everything interesting - except horses - I find them very boring)

When people don't know what I do for a living and then they find out - they are vaguely frightened. They picture lil ol WOK sitting at home reading books about making bombs and WMDs while stroking a copy of "The Catcher in the Rye". They think I actually have an affection for guns - that I like them - nooo....that I loooooooove them (extra "o"s for extra lovin) - and that I own a bunch.

For anyone interested in stalking me - I own no guns and I only fire them at expos so I can keep current with the technology I write about (and even then I spend more time with military issue weapons) and I am an exceedingly poor shot.

I am a weapon savant. I'm not interested in the topic any more than a secretary is interested in typing memos and answering phones when s/he gets home.

A little FYI/TMI about your buddy WOK.

~WOK (Stroking "Catcher in the Rye" for entirely different reasons - and while nekkid)

 

[Aurora Black]

When people don't know what I do for a living and then they find out - they are vaguely frightened. They picture lil ol WOK sitting at home reading books about making bombs and WMDs while stroking a copy of "The Catcher in the Rye". They think I actually have an affection for guns - that I like them - nooo....that I loooooooove them (extra "o"s for extra lovin) - and that I own a bunch.

Asses.

 

[R. Richard]

Just to throw a bit more confusion into the discussion, the Israelis produced a machine pistol, called an Uzi. The Uzi comonly fires a 9 mm Parabellum cartridge at 600 rounds per minute. The Uzi is a fully-automatic pistol.

You will find Uzis on the streets of some inner cities. They are light, maneuverable weapons with a high rate of fire and decent shocking power. Rumors to the contrary, I have never used an Uzi in the street.

 

[Aurora Black]

Just to throw a bit more confusion into the discussion, the Israelis produced a machine pistol, called an Uzi. The Uzi comonly fires a 9 mm Parabellum cartridge at 600 rounds per minute. The Uzi is a fully-automatic pistol.

You will find Uzis on the streets of some inner cities. They are light, maneuverable weapons with a high rate of fire and decent shocking power. Rumors to the contrary, I have never used an Uzi in the street.

I don't want to turn her into Rambo, RR.

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

Sort of a threadjack.

Aren't most 9mm weapons for military duty SMGs? To make up for the lack of stopping power?

End sort of a threadjack.

To answer your question - yes and no.

A good number are in the US military. But they probably only account for about 50% of military personal use weapons worldwide. (If you give me a few hours I can get the actual percentage of SMGs used worldwide). You frequently see automatic rifles in small nations.

~WOK

PS~ for anyone who cares - an SMG is a submachine gun.

 

[AchtungNight]

{eye roll} Gun nuts.

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

Just to throw a bit more confusion into the discussion, the Israelis produced a machine pistol, called an Uzi. The Uzi comonly fires a 9 mm Parabellum cartridge at 600 rounds per minute. The Uzi is a fully-automatic pistol.

You will find Uzis on the streets of some inner cities. They are light, maneuverable weapons with a high rate of fire and decent shocking power. Rumors to the contrary, I have never used an Uzi in the street.

Tis a shame this beautiful weapon was taken over by the movies who seem to think every gangsta owns one. It really is a great weapon with a bad rep. Except the rep where it jams a lot - that rep is true.

The Israelis make gorgeous weapons of all kinds. The lunatics usually do (no offense to anyone of Israeli descent - but the "government", military and paramilitary of Israel really are nuts - just finished a long piece on them)

~WOK (Who has her own well crafted bad-rep to uphold)

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

{eye roll} Gun nuts.

gotta love that I write gun nut smut for a living.

I can just see billy bob jerkin his gerkin to pics of the newest Tech while reading my articles.....

I get fun fan mail.

And really frighteneing hate mail.

~WOK (rolling nekkid in hate mail)

 

[Aurora Black]

gotta love that I write gun nut smut for a living.

I can just see billy bob jerkin his gerkin to pics of the newest Tech while reading my articles.....

I get fun fan mail.

And really frighteneing hate mail.

~WOK (rolling nekkid in hate mail)

Jesus Christ on a cracker. Hate mail for freaking guns?

 

[rgraham666]

To answer your question - yes and no.

A good number are in the US military. But they probably only account for about 50% of military personal use weapons worldwide. (If you give me a few hours I can get the actual percentage of SMGs used worldwide). You frequently see automatic rifles in small nations.

~WOK

PS~ for anyone who cares - an SMG is a submachine gun.

Are there 9mm rifle rounds? Doesn't an SMG by definition fire pistol ammo?

That was my understanding.

I did a fair bit of research into weapons for a role playing game I designed about a decade ago. I wanted the combat system realistic, meaning short and bloody.

Worked too. My playtesters quickly learned to avoid firefights. Talking, bribery, running away and even grovelling are much more survivable.

 

[The_Fool]

Jesus Christ on a cracker. Hate mail for freaking guns?

Discussing the attributes of weapons can take on robes of a religious discussion.

One example the ballistic qualities of 9mm vs. 40 S&W vs. .45.
Another, the reliability of the revolver versus the semi-auto.
Not to mention brand awareness.
Think NASCAR on steroids, at least in certain circles.

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

Jesus Christ on a cracker. Hate mail for freaking guns?

I write HUMOR pieces primarily for Military and Military History publications (and frequently guest pieces/features for magazines).

Not everyone enjoys my humor.

I have also been known to write non-humorous prieces and product reviews. Those really get a lot of hate mail.

But at least when they send the mail they are really specific about what weapon they will use to kill me and/or my ferrets.

Fortunately I write under a pen name. (Suzie McUzi.....lol....I wish I had thought of that one - my own pen name is really boring)

~WOK

 

[The_Fool]

Are there 9mm rifle rounds? Doesn't an SMG by definition fire pistol ammo?

That was my understanding.

I did a fair bit of research into weapons for a role playing game I designed about a decade ago. I wanted the combat system realistic, meaning short and bloody.

Worked too. My playtesters quickly learned to avoid firefights. Talking, bribery, running away and even grovelling are much more survivable.

I think the 9mm you are talking about is a pistol round. There may be some obscure rifle cartridge that shoots that size bullet, but none come to mind that are called that.

Yes a SMG shoots pistol rounds. Most common are 9mm although just about any caliber of round could be used.

 

[Aurora Black]

Discussing the attributes of weapons can take on robes of a religious discussion.

One example the ballistic qualities of 9mm vs. 40 S&W vs. .45.
Another, the reliability of the revolver versus the semi-auto.
Not to mention brand awareness.
Think NASCAR on steroids, at least in certain circles.

Yeehaw.

WOK:

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

Are there 9mm rifle rounds?

Doesn't an SMG by definition fire pistol ammo?

Question 1 - Sure- the Mauser uses them

Question 2 - Yes. Otherwise it would be a general purpose machine gun or large aritillery type machine gun

~WOK

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

I think the 9mm you are talking about is a pistol round. There may be some obscure rifle cartridge that shoots that size bullet, but none come to mind that are called that.

Yes a SMG shoots pistol rounds. Most common are 9mm although just about any caliber of round could be used.

PAH! The Mauser is hardly obscure!

~WOK

 

[rgraham666]

The Mauser the German Army used to use? I though that was an 8mm round.

Eh, as I found out you can find just about any type of gun you want.

I liked the FN P90 and the Calicos myself. Interesting guns.