Guidance on writing style - perspective

[cocput]

I seek guidance for writing one of my stories. I have confusion on perspective and tense to use.

I want the story to be written such that a major section of the story involves the protagonist narrating the past to his beloved as part of conversation.

The story is about how a man falls in love with a woman. There are a lot of things that the man does, which is kept as a complete secret from the woman till the beginning of the story. There were a lot of things that he never told her. He finally agrees to tell her the story. After the narration of how he dealt with the past, the story moves to how the last part of the story happened.

I was thinking of using third person for narrating the till the revelation of the past. The main theme will be told as 1st person by the protagonist. The climax reverts back to 3rd person to reveal the rest of the story. The punch is in climax, where the woman becomes totally aware of the extent to which the man loves her.

I don't want the entire revelation of the man to be a monologue.

Should I really write the story as a series of block quotations with a starting double quote in every para?

If I write it like that, then how do I write dialogues? Of course I can write dialogues within single quotes, but then what about dialogue within dialogue?​

If not, then how do I do it? How will the reader know that there is a change of perspective of narration?

Which tense is appropriate for the three sections of the story?

I am experimenting with this way of presentation. The way the plot looks currently, this going to end up as a novella.
All suggestions are welcome.

 

[PennLady]

First off, what you're proposing -- starting in 3d person, switching to first, then back to 3d, certainly can be done. You have to remember there is no real "right" way to do things in a story, except the right way for that story. I think this idea sounds like the best way, since a section in first person would be different than a monologue.

Another way, of course, would be to do it all in third person, and this section about the past would just be a flashback

 

[Kojote]

Which tense is appropriate for the three sections of the story?

I think I'm not the one to answer the more complex questions. But one thing almost immediatly came to mind: Why don't you put the 'Flashback' in italic.
That could also solve the problem with the single and double quotes.

 

[PennLady]

Whatever tense you pick, stay with it. I'd advise going with past tense. If he's going to talk about things that have already happened, why not use past? Again, there's no real right answer as to which tense, but consistency with tense is important. It's very frustrating to read a story where the author switches tenses.

I have done two stories that involved flashbacks, although each story is all in third person. If you'd like to see them as an example, they are:

Who Cares What I Wear?

Facing the Past

One thing you can always do with writing a story is to look at other stories to see how different authors handle various situations and challenges.

 

[PennLady]

I think I'm not the one to answer the more complex questions. But one thing almost immediatly came to mind: Why don't you put the 'Flashback' in italic.
That could also solve the problem with the single and double quotes.

I would advise against putting the entire flashback sequence in italics unless it is short. For one thing, you may end up italicizing portions of the story you didn't mean to. Also, too much italics is tough on the eyes and harder to read. Short bursts are okay, but I wouldn't want to put a whole page in italics.

 

[cocput]

This is a very strong idea, it has been pestering me for the past three weeks. I just want it to let lose so that it doesn't torment me anymore.

..... would be to do it all in third person, and this section about the past would just be a flashback

I thought of flash back first. But there were three problems.

• 
  One: The story idea didn't come to me that way. The lamest excuse, but a fact.

The idea was a fairly strong romantic beginning, but suddenly for some reason my character refused to take the final step. He decided that the woman had a dark past, and he was the one to solve the past. I don't play with how characters talk to me in the dream. When I start writing, I relive those dreams to express the story in words.
​

• 
  Two: I don't know how to make the woman interrupt in the middle, if I wrote it as a flashback.

The past, as I have mentioned, is very dark. Even the mention of the past to the woman is going to force her into emotional turmoil. The man has to console her, and show support. When i was thinking of the scene, I cried. The revelation of the man about he had done makes her believe that, for the man, this is not a mere sexual fascination towards her, but real deep love.
​

• 
  Three: I don't know how to write a flash back. Have never seen flash back in any book I read yet.

The last problem is trivial though. I can always learn the technique with assistance.

First off, what you're proposing -- starting in 3d person, switching to first, then back to 3d, certainly can be done ... I think this idea sounds like the best way, since a section in first person would be different than a monologue.

I was hoping for some guidance on how to do it. At least some assistance in helping me move forward.

If you need further details, I can post the plot (excluding the climax ). WARNING: The story contains incest and reference to violence, both ended up being integral part of the story. My stories do not revolve on the central taboo nature of incest, but on the casual coincidence that the romantic partner happens to be a close relative.
EDIT::: For those who are opposed to incest, I can provide a modified plot summary which will turn out to be a story about the strong relationship between mother and son.

 

[cocput]

Why don't you put the 'Flashback' in italic.

I don't think I want to do that. I have read stupid literature in all fonts and styles. Bold and Italics are good, only if they appear in a word or a sentence, at the most a paragraph. If I write an entire scene in italics, the reader will tire his/her eyes and run away without reading it.

Whatever tense you pick, stay with it. I'd advise going with past tense. If he's going to talk about things that have already happened, why not use past? ........ It's very frustrating to read a story where the author switches tenses.

I was thinking in terms of past tense first as well. But how will the reader know that the man(who is in past) is telling an incident in the past of past. Or, is my understanding of tenses wrong? I just hope I could retrieve my high school grammar book.

I have done two stories that involved flashbacks, although each story is all in third person. If you'd like to see them as an example, they are:

Who Cares What I Wear?

Facing the Past

I have opened them for reading. They are long, so I might take a while to figure things out.

 

[_Lynn_]

This is a very strong idea, it has been pestering me for the past three weeks. I just want it to let lose so that it doesn't torment me anymore.



I thought of flash back first. But there were three problems.

• 
  One: The story idea didn't come to me that way. The lamest excuse, but a fact.

The idea was a fairly strong romantic beginning, but suddenly for some reason my character refused to take the final step. He decided that the woman had a dark past, and he was the one to solve the past. I don't play with how characters talk to me in the dream. When I start writing, I relive those dreams to express the story in words.
​

• 
  Two: I don't know how to make the woman interrupt in the middle, if I wrote it as a flashback.

The past, as I have mentioned, is very dark. Even the mention of the past to the woman is going to force her into emotional turmoil. The man has to console her, and show support. When i was thinking of the scene, I cried. The revelation of the man about he had done makes her believe that, for the man, this is not a mere sexual fascination towards her, but real deep love.
​

• 
  Three: I don't know how to write a flash back. Have never seen flash back in any book I read yet.

The last problem is trivial though. I can always learn the technique with assistance.




I was hoping for some guidance on how to do it. At least some assistance in helping me move forward.

If you need further details, I can post the plot (excluding the climax ). WARNING: The story contains incest and reference to violence, both ended up being integral part of the story. My stories do not revolve on the central taboo nature of incest, but on the casual coincidence that the romantic partner happens to be a close relative.
EDIT::: For those who are opposed to incest, I can provide a modified plot summary which will turn out to be a story about the strong relationship between mother and son.

If you choose to post part of the story, Lit only allows a paragraph or two on the forums.

I might be able to look at what you have so far. Shoot me a PM with some details.

 

[PennLady]

One: The story idea didn't come to me that way. The lamest excuse, but a fact.

You can't always tell a story in the way it came to you. Sometimes what works in your head does not translate to a written story. If you're not willing to try different things, I think you will find yourself in a corner very quickly. You may like the way it came to you, but there may be a better way to tell it.

Two: I don't know how to make the woman interrupt in the middle, if I wrote it as a flashback.[/list]

Then flashback may not be the right way to go. Perhaps even separating it into sections, as you've described, isn't the right way to go. Perhaps it needs to be more linear.

Three: I don't know how to write a flash back. Have never seen flash back in any book I read yet.
[/list]

Well, a flashback is just a section of the story set off with some kind of header to indicate the events take place at a time before what you've read so far. You can look at my stories for one way to do it.

I was thinking in terms of past tense first as well. But how will the reader know that the man(who is in past) is telling an incident in the past of past. Or, is my understanding of tenses wrong? I just hope I could retrieve my high school grammar book.

You can just tell the reader -- don't make anything more difficult than it has to be. Just say. "Joe remembered when such and such happened." And then describe the event. It's really not hard.

I have opened them for reading. They are long, so I might take a while to figure things out.

"Who Cares..." isn't that long, although yes, "Facing..." is. Feel free to just skim, I won't be offended.

 

[sr71plt]

I just read a book, The Reservoir, which is a murder mystery, which flips back and forth between the time of the murder (rendered in third person, past tense) and the time of the arrest and trial (rendered in third person, present tense). It works fine, with the changes sectioned off by chapter. It would also work with them sectioned off by subchapter.

I alone--and in co-authored works--have also alternated between one character's first-person perspective and another character's first person. And the reviewers have all said it works fine.

I even once read a book about a juvenile leukemia victim where we get sections in his first-person, present tense voice broken by sections of his parents talking after he died, rendered in third person, past tense. It was a little wierd but it worked, because it emphasized that there was no future for the boy; he lived whatever he was going to live in the present, personal tense.

You just, I think, have to section them off--and be very careful that you stick with the tense/perspective you've chosen within section.

 

[cocput]

My problem is that there are situations in the man's narrative, when the woman will interrupt. I think I better name them as Alice and Bob.

Some of the interruptions are small. Two-four exchanges. Some of the breaks are going to be longer, in which the Alice will cry for longer periods.
A typical scenario:

narration
---
Alice interrupts, "so this is why you did this?"

"Explanation, " Bob requests to continue.

By that time, Alice is sob sob sob.
"It's Ok, ", Bob consoles.
Alice calmer and asks to continue.
---
narration continues
​

How does the reader know that the change in tense is change in timeline?
Also, what about the quotation problem?

 

[cocput]

If you choose to post part of the story, Lit only allows a paragraph or two on the forums.

The plot, if I mention all the sub-plots, itself is large. What I have is timeline clues, which I have heavily abbreviated now, and that is large. I have a sub-plot on Bob's childhood, two subplots on his grandfather, three possible fathers, apart from the thrill factors, and a few for Alice. The way I remember it 8 or 9. If things don't get bad when I write it shouldn't exceed 11.
Apart from the main plot, there are three sub-plots that are spanning over a longer period of time. 4 sub-plots get over in a single incident. I am not interested in thinking of the parts where I am leaving to reader's imagination.


I don't know how to express the problems I am facing with just two para of story.

 

[cocput]

You can't always tell a story in the way it came to you. Sometimes what works in your head does not translate to a written story. If you're not willing to try different things, I think you will find yourself in a corner very quickly. You may like the way it came to you, but there may be a better way to tell it.

That's why I called it the lamest excuse. I was continuing this story in daydreams for three days. The idea is not a single long dream. The number of off-shoot ideas are enough to built at least 4 parallel stories. I don't want to move away, because it is easier sticking to the way I saw it.

My options are go flashback, play with perspective, or write a dull single line narrative in which I start when Bob was 14 and built all the way till he becomes 28.
I dumped the single line idea because the story will cease to be interesting. I am not a great professional author. I will not be able to convincingly tell the story in journal type narration.
The only way I can remind the reader what the story is all about is by playing with time.

 

[_Lynn_]

The plot, if I mention all the sub-plots, itself is large. What I have is timeline clues, which I have heavily abbreviated now, and that is large. I have a sub-plot on Bob's childhood, two subplots on his grandfather, three possible fathers, apart from the thrill factors, and a few for Alice. The way I remember it 8 or 9. If things don't get bad when I write it shouldn't exceed 11.
Apart from the main plot, there are three sub-plots that are spanning over a longer period of time. 4 sub-plots get over in a single incident. I am not interested in thinking of the parts where I am leaving to reader's imagination.


I don't know how to express the problems I am facing with just two para of story.

True, but I did say to send me details in a PM and I might be able to look at what you have. And you can send more than two paragraphs in an e-mail or a PM.

 

[sr71plt]

My problem is that there are situations in the man's narrative, when the woman will interrupt. I think I better name them as Alice and Bob.

Some of the interruptions are small. Two-four exchanges. Some of the breaks are going to be longer, in which the Alice will cry for longer periods.
A typical scenario:

narration
---
Alice interrupts, "so this is why you did this?"

"Explanation, " Bob requests to continue.

By that time, Alice is sob sob sob.
"It's Ok, ", Bob consoles.
Alice calmer and asks to continue.
---
narration continues
​

How does the reader know that the change in tense is change in timeline?
Also, what about the quotation problem?

You've lost me. This is all third person, present tense (and pretty tedious and not grammatical).

My answer, though, on changing person/tense with a conversation is that I doubt it can be effectively done.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... I want the story to be written such that a major section of the story involves the protagonist narrating the past to his beloved as part of conversation.
...
I was thinking of using third person for narrating the till the revelation of the past. The main theme will be told as 1st person by the protagonist. The climax reverts back to 3rd person to reveal the rest of the story.
...
I don't want the entire revelation of the man to be a monologue.

Should I really write the story as a series of block quotations with a starting double quote in every para?
...
If not, then how do I do it? How will the reader know that there is a change of perspective of narration?
...

Here's how I would do it, and have done it in some of my novels.

Split the story into chapters or parts clearly delineated by the chapter headings as follows:

Chapter 1 Love Is In The Air
Third person story of their falling in love.
Chapter 2 He Confesses
First person confession without quote marks on every para. Where there is dialogue, use quotation marks as normal.
Use your own suggestion for interruptions.
Chapter 3 Happy Ever After
Back to third person for the happy ending.

Of course you can substitute more relevant chapter headings, and replace "happy" with "tragic" if it is appropriate.

If the story itself has multiple chapters (advised for stories over 5000 words) then these three headings are called Part 1, etc. with chapter headings within parts.

Finally, get a reasonable volunteer editor from here to help when you think the text is ready. If you can persuade MistressLynn to advise you then I can think of no-one with a better reputation.

 

[cocput]

If the story itself has multiple chapters (advised for stories over 5000 words) then these three headings are called Part 1, etc. with chapter headings within parts.

I have started writing the story as it came to me. I am just going through the motion of letting it flow through me. There is no point in counting chicken when there are no eggs laid. At first, the damn thing looked so complicated that I allowed my worries take control of me.

I haven't devised this as a multi-part series. Only after completing, I would know whether this can be split into multiple parts.

 

[cocput]

There is no point in counting chicken when there are no eggs laid.

Is this grammatically correct?

 

[sr71plt]

Is this grammatically correct?

No. "Chicken" should be "chickens."

I think you're being overly ambitious in trying to run before you can walk in the realm of writing.

 

[cocput]

No. "Chicken" should be "chickens."

I think you're being overly ambitious in trying to run before you can walk in the realm of writing.

That's why I am an amateur and not a professional.

I am not an expert because this is just a time-pass for me.

Ambition, my friend, is the driving force to greatness.

Tao says reach for the sky so that you touch the lowest branch of a tree.

 

[sr71plt]

Happy writing to you then.

 

[cocput]

I have crossed the 8000 word mark. I have been sitting on this for about 10 hours straight.

I have to finish one of the sub-plots now.

 

[PennLady]

Plus, I can consider chicken there as general idea since it indicates a concept(something that comes out of egg) and not a countable. If there was an assumption that more than one egg is definitely going to hatch, then what you said is true. Has to be chickens, to indicate conutable.

You can, but that's not the expression you were using. The expression is "You shouldn't count your chickens before they're hatched."

 

[cocput]

You can, but that's not the expression you were using. The expression is "You shouldn't count your chickens before they're hatched."

I know. I had meant to write that, but I was writing that at 2 am or 3 am. So my mind was not working linearly.




The problem is mine. I am getting too sensitive, even child-like, when someone says or alludes that I can't.
I apologize for hurting anyone in any manner. Please forgive me.



I have finished typing 9000+ words. I am using ##### to indicate change of perspective.

 

[sr71plt]

You can, but that's not the expression you were using. The expression is "You shouldn't count your chickens before they're hatched."

I like to fracture the expressions when I don't care if the flow of the read is interrupted there. It's fresh and makes people stop and think about the expression.