Great Depression II

[AllardChardon]

With U. S. stock markets falling, again, today, and the threat of another recession, when will the financial analysts "call a spade a spade", and say we are in the Great Depression II, (which, I believe, is the truth of it)?

 

[sr71plt]

What's the upside of that?

 

[mynameisben]

With U. S. stock markets falling, again, today, and the threat of another recession, when will the financial analysts "call a spade a spade", and say we are in the Great Depression II, (which, I believe, is the truth of it)?

I honestly believe that every economist worth his nickel privately acknowledges that we are indeed in a great depression. But SR71 is right. There is no upside to publicly calling a spade a spade. The U.S. hasn't "declared" war in 70 years, although we fight them all the time. Even the idiots in Washington know there's no upside in telling the truth. Ever.

No, you will never hear an official announcement. Economists, Wall Streeters, politicians, businessmen...everybody who knows what money is has a deeply vested interest in NOT acknowledging the obvious. Your grandchildren will be reading about it in school, though. At least that's something you can take to the bank.

 

[trysail]

US Business Cycle Expansions and Contractions

http://www.nber.org/cycles.html



Source:

Public Information Office
National Bureau of Economic Research, Inc.
1050 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge MA 02138
USA
617-868-3900

Permission to copy is granted, provided credit is given

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I honestly believe that every economist worth his nickel privately acknowledges that we are indeed in a great depression. But SR71 is right. There is no upside to publicly calling a spade a spade. The U.S. hasn't "declared" war in 70 years, although we fight them all the time. Even the idiots in Washington know there's no upside in telling the truth. Ever.

No, you will never hear an official announcement. Economists, Wall Streeters, politicians, businessmen...everybody who knows what money is has a deeply vested interest in NOT acknowledging the obvious. Your grandchildren will be reading about it in school, though. At least that's something you can take to the bank.

True. No one ever goes on teevee and alerts the nation that the barbarians are inside the fort. Every pol worth his salt sneaks outta town with the gold and jewels.

I suppose the real question is: HOW DO YOU KNOW THE END IS HERE WHEN THEY WONT GIVE YOU THE NEWS?

 

[3113]

With U. S. stock markets falling, again, today, and the threat of another recession, when will the financial analysts "call a spade a spade", and say we are in the Great Depression II, (which, I believe, is the truth of it)?

I've already sharpened my pencils, gotten a bushel of apples and picked out my street corner.

http://subdude-site.com/WebPics/WebPicsBushLib/BushEconomy/cartoon_appleSeller_1929vs2008_500x352.jpg

 

[sr71plt]

Seriously, unless the declaration comes with food stamps, what earthly reason would there be to declare it exists until it's over and you can look back at what you survived? There would be reason if some sort of greater-society fixes kicked in upon declaration. But the political forces in the States at the moment have made that impossible. Cooperating with a government effort to get it done (as happened with the Great Depression) has been declared treason by our conservative forces, which are doing everything they can to sabotage any coordinated effort to get out of it. And if you're expecting the selfish, grasping business establishment to get it done, you might as well whistle "Dixie" into the telephone line leading to India.

 

[AllardChardon]

I keep forgetting truth is not now, nor never has been, fashionable, especially for the rich and powerful. My old hippy brain just keeps on hoping someday it will change.

If the Great Depression II, unlike WWII, is a thing for future history books, what year do you think it started, all the time remembering the end is nowhere in sight?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Obama and the Democrats had all of 2009 and 2010 to do as they pleased, the GOP be damned, and nuthin much happened except lotsa money was pissed away and the reckoning kicked down the road.

 

[sr71plt]

I think this misses the reality that economic phases are largely built on public perception--even the "boom" phases. It isn't all lists of statistics. Absent strong, intentional, centralized planning and execution--which the current political climate has negated--the economy will only stimulate itself when/as society believes in itself and its safe buying power. Once again, what's the payoff of saying we're in a depression, if government's hands are tied and the business world is just sitting on whatever it can accumulate?

I helped last month. I bought a new car--with cash--and a whole bunch of patio furniture.

 

[sr71plt]

Obama and the Democrats had all of 2009 and 2010 to do as they pleased, the GOP be damned, and nuthin much happened except lotsa money was pissed away and the reckoning kicked down the road.

Largely bullshit, but I agree that Obama could have been more forceful--and still can be. (It it looks like he may finally be taking that road.) He could declare that we're not going to get anywhere without taxing the rich more and doing more centrally--both of which, of course, the Republicans are dragging their feet on. So, just ram it down their throats and say it's their turn to propose midstream compromises or take responsibility for the stagnation and campaign heavily with the electorate that if they want out of the economic situation, they have to give him a Congress that will pass legislation. I have no doubt that a majority of the voters understand and support taxing the rich more. Make the GOP sweat more. I don't see anything else working.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Largely bullshit, but I agree that Obama could have been more forceful--and still can be. (It it looks like he may finally be taking that road.) He could declare that we're not going to get anywhere without taxing the rich more and doing more centrally--both of which, of course, the Republicans are dragging their feet on. So, just ram it down their throats and say it's their turn to propose midstream compromises or take responsibility for the stagnation and campaign heavily with the electorate that if they want out of the economic situation, they have to give him a Congress that will pass legislation. I have no doubt that a majority of the voters understand and support taxing the rich more. Make the GOP sweat more. I don't see anything else working.

Taxes wont go up cuz Daddy Bush did it and the Democrats stuck it up his ass in the election. So the GOP wont take the bait again.

The election hangs on how secure the independents feel. Democrats will vote for Obama and GOP will vote for whomever, but the Independents are gonna dump Obama if things arent kewl for them.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://cnsnews.com/blog/lars-larson/obama-goes-country-i-blame-everyone-man-its-still-same-old-song

OBAMA 2012 CAMPAIGN SONG

 

[sr71plt]

Taxes wont go up cuz Daddy Bush did it and the Democrats stuck it up his ass in the election. So the GOP wont take the bait again.

The election hangs on how secure the independents feel. Democrats will vote for Obama and GOP will vote for whomever, but the Independents are gonna dump Obama if things arent kewl for them.

Taxes will go up, at least for the rich, if we're going to get out of this economic situation--and unless business steps up the plate like the GOP declares it will. (So, if the GOP doesn't want to be the big loser on this, it needs to get off its ass and help make business stand up to the task.)

And I'm betting taxes'll go up on the rich if Obama hangs in there and sticks to the GOP for blocking that. Because I have every confidence that a majority of the electorate is in favor of taxing the rich more. They just have to be given the clear opportunity to vote on that issue.

For all the GOP's windbagging on taxes, they've raised them too when in power when it suited them.

But I'll let them work this out (and you and others here "oh woe is me" over it). This is an erotica forum. I'll happily use writing and posting erotica as a distraction and let you worry about what you can't do a damn thing about.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

They wont tax the rich. The rich fund their elections, and everyone in Congress is rich. Obama's rich. Kerrys rich. Pelosi's rich.

They gonna get the money from you like they always do.

 

[Handley_Page]

I keep forgetting truth is not now, nor never has been, fashionable, especially for the rich and powerful. My old hippy brain just keeps on hoping someday it will change.

If the Great Depression II, unlike WWII, is a thing for future history books, what year do you think it started, all the time remembering the end is nowhere in sight?

For what I can see, it started when the Banking system lost control of it's operators (who had lost all concept of good behaviour), it would be when the dominoes started to fall. Say, 2007 ?

Meanwhile, the rest of the world awaits the USA's policies in an effort to stabilise World Trade (the only ones who benefit are led by China, who has massive spending power). So the sooner some of these Senators who are blocking 'everything' (for the sake of being bloody-minded ?) get off their haunches, work together and stop the 'Pissin' Contest', the better.

If America wants to demonstrate that it leads the world, it had better start doing it.

 

[Fish_Tales]

You could move to Australia. We have free healthcare, we have retirement pensions, we have enforced savings, we have unemployment benefits, we tax rich people more (that's why Murdoch moved over there - you can keep him), when there's a natural disaster they just levy a few percent on our taxes till it gets paid off..... That's enough to mention for now.

We have conservatives who moan that we didn't do it like the US, but look what happened? We are tiny and yet 4 of our banks (just about the only 4 really) are in the top 10 globally for security.

The US has so much going for it, but the top end seems to be inordinately selfish and then sucks the middle class and wannabees into thinking like them.

It's confusing really - there's no reason for the US to be down as far as I can see except that big business gets away with what it wants. The people are innovative, companies (especially in IT) are very forward thinking, individual philanthropy is much bigger there etc. I just don't understand from afar how they could rack up so much debt and still not deliver things to the people that we would consider "normal". I know wars and such take a toll, but surely, where did all the money go? I'm not saying "regulate" but if you hand out public money to save a financial company then how can you justify paying bonuses?

If we got into so much debt that we had to increase our debt ceiling, then surely we'd be wiped off the face of the earth and placed at the mercy of the IMF like some of the Europeans. The US just keeps believing things will get better by printing more money.

I don't know much, but it just seems weird. We have so much respect for the US here, and justifiably so, but it's confusing as to what happened.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

America has always been the land of innovation but since the 80s our major corporations have aggressively captured and consolidated competition, to protect themselves from innovations.

My local bank is Bank of America, but before it was BOA it was Nations Bank, Barnett Bank of Florida, and Community Bank. Every few years a bigger fish eats the smaller one.

 

[Fish_Tales]

Yes - we have a rule that none of the Big 4 (as they call the big banks) can buy and/or merge with each other. It makes sense I guess. People say it's "regulation" but it doesn't seem to hurt them at all.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Obama and the Democrats had all of 2009 and 2010 to do as they pleased, the GOP be damned, and nuthin much happened except lotsa money was pissed away and the reckoning kicked down the road.

This is how it's worked for the Democrats these past years;
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/images/si/science-idol-2011/web-UCScalendar-Nuez-attack_not-full-res.jpg

 

[AllardChardon]

Perfectly put, FishTales. I hate to admit that Americans are tax-paying guinea pigs, who are supposed to die from Big Pharm's Wonder Drugs long before we can retire, but it is a belief I have held for some time, now. How many U.S. Congressmen are on Prozac, Zoloft and the like is a study I would gladly pay taxes for.

 

[rgraham666]

Well, the people who make the decisions can't use the word 'depression'.

You see, that would mean they've done something wrong. That all their expertise and power couldn't stop them from making major mistakes. That all this is their fault.

So it's a 'recession' instead. 'Recession' sounds controllable. "Take two tax cuts, add plenty of liquidity and call me in the morning." A 'recession' means nothing is really wrong.

So it will never be a 'depression' until it is history and no longer threatens anyone's power.

 

[avidreader_01]

For what I can see, it started when the Banking system lost control of it's operators (who had lost all concept of good behaviour), it would be when the dominoes started to fall. Say, 2007 ?

Meanwhile, the rest of the world awaits the USA's policies in an effort to stabilise World Trade (the only ones who benefit are led by China, who has massive spending power). So the sooner some of these Senators who are blocking 'everything' (for the sake of being bloody-minded ?) get off their haunches, work together and stop the 'Pissin' Contest', the better.

If America want to demonstrate that it leads the world, it had better start doing it.

you can go a little further than that. back in the 90s when that bill was signed to allow jobs to go overseas for cheaper labor.

solution seems simple to me: bring jobs back, tax immigrants who consider themselves americans. wow, would you look @ that, we now have billions back in the treasury & americans are now working, which means consumers are buying more... do you think anyone from congress will read these threads... I just helped lower the deficient

 

[Fish_Tales]

Perfectly put, FishTales. I hate to admit that Americans are tax-paying guinea pigs, who are supposed to die from Big Pharm's Wonder Drugs long before we can retire, but it is a belief I have held for some time, now. How many U.S. Congressmen are on Prozac, Zoloft and the like is a study I would gladly pay taxes for.

Thanks

Perfectly put, FishTales.
http://www.primeaffiliate.com/track/images/22.gif

A very good example 1bbcd5

rgraham makes a very good point - they just ignored it. Your interest rates are incredibly low, but it cheapens the value of money and gives you nowhere to go if you need to reduce. I'm no economist, but continual stimulation to aid buisness has to run out of puff at some stage. In the end, people have to have jobs, confidence in their future and be given the right necessities (healthcare, penisons etc) and then they will buy. I can't see why they would feel confident buying when their jobs are under threat and the only reason to buy is to stimulate the economy.

If most of the politicians weren't sitting in their offices just stimulating themselves, then things would be a lot better. I have a lot of time for Americans and their ingenuity (my wife used to work for Oracle) but their politicians and opinion leaders are a pack of clowns. Your big businessmen - the legitimate ones, not ones that just play with money and stuff it up - have more heart and sense. Maybe one of them should run the country? Bill Gates seems to have more humanity about him than what you call Democrats. And your Republicans (at least the ones we see on the news here) - here they would be judged as fringe loonies!

It's not fair on the "normal" people that just want a "normal" life.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Our Republicans ARE fringe loonies. The fabric, so to speak, of our society, is unravelling very quickly and I would say that there's more fringe than fabric. We are witnessing a dozen or more USA-grown Adolf Hitlers, all of whom are vying to inherit the moustache and armband, and the brownshirts are just waiting for their leader.

Anyone that is even close to center is reviled by them as a pinko lefty commie socialist, and the public buys that.

These are the Interesting times" that the Chinese curse wishes upon the hapless.