Grammar

[Guest]

Why does it seem as though none of your writers have gone beyond third grade regarding spelling and grammar. I realize that this is nat considered important in todays world, but it does make for much easier reading, and makes your story flow much better. I am not an English teacher, just a retired business executive. Believe me when I tell you that these things ARE important in life. Note; I love your stories once I have translated them.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I get bitchy about punctuation. Once I translated your post, I somewhat agreed with you.

I do believe that my grammar is just fine and that I'm a writer at this site. I defy you to have to "translate" one of my stories. I am aware that my grammar is not perfect and that I make mistakes. However, in general, my grammar is good and my writing is clear. If you have a problem with my writing, please feel free to criticize it. Otherwise, don't lump me in the with "She was a 5'4" blonde with green eyes 44DDDD boobs and 15 inch waist and a 30 inch ass and I am going to fuck her so hard that she almost swallowed my cock whole" crew.

There is some teeth gritting bad writing here. However, the site endeavors to make sure that most people with a sex story have a place to share it.

General comments that encompass the 12,000ish stories on this site wildly irritate me. It is physically impossible for you to have read all of them so you can't say that none of the writers have good grammar.

Next time you read a story with bad grammar, click on the author's name and send them an anonymous email. You may refer them to the volunteer editors on this site, or you may volunteer to explain the grammar problems yourself. Be aware that general "You suck! Don't quit your day job!" comments are usually sloughed off.

 

[Laurel]

Laurel's Stock Answer:

[Why does it seem as though none of your writers have gone beyond third grade regarding spelling and grammar.

I posted this elsewhere. I'm C&Ping it here because I'm damn lazy:

Part of what's cool about Literotica is that it allows amateur writers to publish their work for an audience. I do some editing, but I do not polish every story. If I did, then 1) the writer wouldn't have the flaws in his or her writing pointed out to him or her; and 2) there's no way I could get through 50-80 stories a night.

If you see a story with flagrant grammar/spelling errors, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take 5 seconds of your time to write the author a quick note suggesting that he or she seek help with our Volunteer Editor program. I've got editors writing me all anxious because no one is contacting them. We have editors in the program who are Literature students, who are professional editors & writers, who have special knowledge of different kinks and fetishes.

There's also a library of excellent essays and how-to's in the Writer's Resources area. All writers should check out that section - good info there!

With all that's available, there's no excuse for atrocious grammar and spelling. Many authors are not aware of the tools provided to them. Once they're aware of them, the vast majority WILL use them to improve the quality of the story they submit. By taking a bit of your time to nudge them in the right direction, you're making the site that much more enjoyable for you. You're also helping make this world a more literate place, which is a wonderful thing.

That said, your initial statement is incorrect. The illiterate authors are in the minority, and we have quite a few writers who are highly skilled not only at the mechanics of writing but also at the art of telling a compelling story. I don't know what story you read that put that wild hair up your butt, but I humbly submit that your time would've been better spent sending an email/anony feedback to the writer suggesting that they seek grammatical assistance through our Volunteer Editor program or elsewhere.

 

[hardman877]

Some....

As a relatively new volunteer editor for Literotica stories, an individual who shirks from poorly constructed stories, I must respond to the allegation that stories posted here are poorly written. I will agree that some are very poorly done. Some. But far from the majority.

When I read a story, I cannot help but evaluate the mechanics of the writing as well as the story line and its embellishments. And I have found some that I quit reading before I got to the end.

Conversely, I find many, many more that I finish. And enjoy. And I find a lot that I almost have to disect before I can find fault. I have found some authors for whom I would love to provide my editing services, yet cannot find a solid reason to contact them to offer them.

Is every story posted here one that would be passed by a professional proofreader? Heck, no! Are there many posted here that would be passed. I would again have to answer in the negative. Are there any? That story would be difficult to find.

Are there stories that would be enjoyed by a person with a solid grasp of the intricacies of the English language? You bet. Are there stories here that are written well enough to be read by almost everyone without grammatical distractions? Absolutely. I submit that most of them fall in that category.

Rather than making a general disparaging allegation such as was written, I suggest those who do not like any specific writing do one of two things:

- Provide CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to that particular author. Don't unload on him/her; provide samples of concerns you have and make yourself available to that author or suggest making use of the volunteer editors.

- or -

- Write and submit a story yourself. Then let me take a look at it for you. I will help you understand just how difficult authoring a story can be.

On a final note: to all those who actually sumit stories for posting, I offer my thanks. I know it isn't easy. And it becomes even tougher when people are ungrateful. Take even the bad criticism (but "with a grain of salt") and learn from it. And pick a good volunteer editor or two to help you. Again, thanks for your efforts. I, for one, enjoy them.

 

[fshagwell_1]

response to unregistered's comments on grammar

The nerve! First the coward goes in unregistered, then the clown doesn't even do a spell check before sending his comment....

I appreciate the straight forward responses each of you had to his post. I am a new writer, getting my feet wet here on this wonderful site. I work hard to get the grammar down. I have the courage to put my work out there for all to see on this site because I value the feedback I get from the readers. I can now see how much my writing has improved as a result. Yes, some posts are a little rough, and I can barely finish them. But I think if a person can paint a picture with words so well that I can see it as I read, I can overlook a couple grammar snags. Plus, the beauty of this site is... for that one that you deem "third grade level" there are a hundred others that are exceptional.

 

[Dragonette]

Volunteer Editors

Thats what I have been looking for!

Where is it?

The Volunteer Editors?
Maybe they are not getting any stories as like me, others can't find it!

I thought it was here, under Editor's Forum, seems the closest

Where is it as I have been looking for help!

 

[Karlynn]

amen fshagwell...i couldn't agree more. It does take a lot of courage in a way to post our stories, some of mine are just fluff, but some have a LOT of my heart in them. I do run across typos when I thought I'd caught them all..but hell, we're all human and mistakes will be made. Constructive critcism is a good thing, but this thread was nat (lol) constructive....
Have a good day all. karlynn

 

[Closet Desire]

Just a little fun...

Why does it seem as though (awkward) none of your writers have gone beyond third grade regarding spelling and grammar.(question mark) I realize that this is nat (sp) considered important in todays (possessive) world, but it does make for much easier reading,(no comma) and makes your story flow much better. I am not an English teacher,(comma not needed) just a retired business executive. Believe me when I tell you that these things ARE important in life. Note;(use colon not semi) I love your stories once I have translated them.

C-

 

[bobo_daclown]

Unregistered coments

Whoever you are (Unreg):

Reading your post gave me great cause to scroll past all the other posts just for an aggravated response. I am glad that so many others have criticized you in response to your selfish post.

If you do post to this site, REGISTER first. And, if you choose to post in any of my threads, check your spelling, punctuation, and other miscellaneous problems--I do not appreciate being told that I, like everyone else here, am a poor author.

Experience this site for what it is: a chance for people who do not have experienced publishers, editors, and printers backing them up. We are the authors that do not have the experience, the time, or the money to invest into writing a book of our own. Or, we choose to do this for fun. I think that I qualify for all of these.

Please excuse my generalization. And by the way:

"You nonconformists are all alike!" (taken from a bumper sticker and probably copyrighted)

-Bobo

 

[Dragonette]

Growls

We are not all English grammar majors, and I tend to disagree slightly.
I prefer commas to semi colons, which my spell and grammar check tries to add.

I do spell check, but I am only human, I miss typos because I KNOW what I mean!

Constructive critism is good and emails about errors, typos are appreciated, but..........

We all try!

 

[dr. Jocelyn]

Spellcheck

I have written three stories, in a bit of a hurry I might add. I was unable to access a spellcheck feature when writing the story directly on the submissions page. Is there a way to do this?

Iam aware of Word and other programs, but I'm on numerous computers daily, some of which don't have word.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Jocelyn

 

[Guest]

Grammar, spelling

I guess one should allow some latitude in spelling and grammar. Now and then a story actually gains from being written in a kind of nonstandard English so that the writer/protagonist comes across as less than mature or as an immigrant for instance, which may be the author's attention. In such cases incorrect English that can be charming and exciting.

But tell me: is there no one left in the United States (where I assume most Literotica authors reside) who remembers the word 'lie' and how it is conjugated? In almost every story the characters 'lay down' instead of lie down, and they are always 'laying' beside (or more often on top of or under) each other, rather than lying. It's 'I laid there watching her suck my dick' rather than 'I lay there ...'. What's up? Has the verb lie disappeared from modern American English?!

And editors: you don't have to think you are going too far rewriting or 'polishing' stories if you gently correct an author who writes 'waste' when he or she means 'waist' or writes 'your' when 'you're' (you are) is called for.

I'm no perfectionist, but dumb errors are for me a definite turn off — and that's the last thing I want when I open Literotica!

 

[Laurel]

Re: Grammar, spelling

But tell me: is there no one left in the United States (where I assume most Literotica authors reside) who remembers the word 'lie' and how it is conjugated?

While I agree that there is some abuse of the English language by native speakers, we do have a decent percentage of authors for whom English is NOT their native language - i.e. Germans, Danes, Indians, even Asians and Middle Easterners...all of whom would probably be very grateful to any reader who took a second or two to email them a quick note as to how to correct their grammar/punctuation/spelling. You as a reader can directly affect the quality of the writing on the site by taking the time to vote on stories and to send criticism directly to the authors.

 

[Closet Desire]

the battle rages...

I happen to think that most of the "writers" on lit do write extremely well--better in fact than the general population. Posting in threads should not be held to the same standard as a thesis or work intended for publication. It is informal and fun--like day-to-day conversation.

As for the old arguments about conjugation et. al. it might be interesting to note that only American schools teach sentence diagramming and conjugation techniques. Many who are entrenched in the "rules" as they were taught might also be surprised to find that those rules have changed due to "common usage". English today looks little like it did even 300 years ago because of this.

The semi-colon vs comma debate is a common one. Many people like to use commas to indicate a pause and I'm one of the biggest culprits of this. When you do this with a series of independent clauses then you are creating "comma splices". Personally I don't have a problem with it, but that is one rule that hasn't changed yet. If the clause is a complete sentence on its own then you should use a semi-colon or your editor will change it.

Finally, literature would be boring as hell if it was all spit and polish according to the MLA manual. Truly good literature captures language in the way that real people use it right down to bad puncutation, bad language, bad grammar, and regional dialect. The important thing is that the narrator or the language tying it all together should be reasonably proper or neutral--unless he or she is also a colourful character! To see how it's done pick up a classic or a recent popular work and notice how the author has breathed life into the words of the actors.

Lots of the contributors to lit are published authors and--yes (hangs head)--I have enough degrees in English to be embarrassing. Let's try not to suffocate the language with rules but use enough of them to let the reader know you're a pro. (don't try this one at home kiddies!)

 

[Dragonette]

I agree!

I use commas, I dislike semi colons, but my grammar check likes to ask me to put them in
Different books I read, some have them some don't!

My main pet hate, and I do it my myself, is a she instead of a he, or a her instead of him, or vice versa. Really confuses a story!

Especially within a sexual description, (eg. her penis grows hard)

As I repeat, we all do it as we know what we mean, even later rereading one of my stories, I cringe at the errors!

So then an email, even anonymous, to point out these errors is always appreciated!

I have had some editors look at a few of my stories, I find it amazing at the different comments!
We all have our own styles, so grammar comes second to spelling for me! I would prefer to get my genders correct and any other obvious errors.

Smiles

But I do try to improve my scribblings!

 

[LittleP]

Bad Grammar!

I have to say... I agree with the Lit. Editors on this one. I happen to be an English major who can properly conjugate 'lie' and explain to everyone why the Modal Auxiliary words in English retain a past tense construction but don't have a past tense meaning when used. But I don't.

In fact, I've had mistakes pointed out to me in my works. I used the word 'ample' to describe a B-cup pair of breasts (whoops). Not everyone is perfect, and expecting perfection from every story is silly. I have yet to find a writing style on here that actually turns me off. Better grammar is certainly more erotic, but if an author can effectively communicate the image they have in mind, I don't complain.

Erotica is about imagination, not grammar. Professionals get paid for for professional work- I suggest "unregistered" break out his credit card if he's not satisfied by his findings here.

 

[LittleP]

Re: Just a little fun...

but it does make for much easier reading,(no comma) and makes your story flow much better. I am not an English teacher,(comma not needed) just a retired business executive.

I disagree, Desire Neither comma is needed, but neither is inappropriate. I cite any work of Dickens as my support!

Of course, I could be wrong, and I'm always looking to learn!

 

[letsallgetlaid]

vounteer editors

Telling people to use the volunteer editor program is all well and good but I tried and I've yet to get any positive responses. I have recieved two "nope, sorry too busy"'s which is fine; and two "this e-mail does not exist"'s. But no one wants to help.

 

[Dragonette]

Really? Keep trying.

I got one that was - no email existing

A couple that seemed more interesting in reading than editing, another that replied, but told me to fix it as he has probelms reading it as it was, english grammar, punctuation, sentences that were much to bad for him, he said he could not follow the story as it was. ??????

Strangely these are posted and are all over 4 in votes!

I did get one, that eventually said, that even though my way of writing was wrong (???), he later found he could live my characters and congratulated me!

All I wanted, (and still want) was someone to check the major points, a he instead of a she, him instead of her, quotes unfinished or in the wrong place.
Also I do have a bad habit of never putting a full stop at the end of the final sentence.

Spelling I can manage.

Try some more volunteers, there are some good and nice ones out there

http://www.literotica.com/storyxs/voled_stor.shtml

I will only look at stories that interest me, I do not read ones like incest.

But if I can help with some basics, then OK.
I am not in the list of Volunteers though.

Smiles

PS,.old works, classics are great, but writing style has changed dramatically since Dickens and Tolkein.

 

[Closet Desire]

That...

...was sort of my point. Accepted usage has changed since Dickens (and the English are prone to use far more commas anyway--even today--I'm always removing them from my partner's reports). Truth is that many of the earlier writers (and remember the novel is barely two centuries old) made up their own rules and reading was a pretty new phenomena so the nuances weren't really there. I've suffered through the microscopic script of the Bronte sisters and they would have flunked any freshman English class--but it doesn't diminish the calibre of what they wrote. I was tickled to read Anne's unique words in the margins of one of her father's hymn books: "this is a load of rubbish." Church girls--they are the naughtiest!

In literature I'm less inclined to pull out the rule book and more inclined to read it and either like it or not. It's only when somebody starts harping about proper this or proper that I feel like grading their work .

By the way--hate Dickens--loathe him--arggghhh! But I don't like liver either so it's probably not a sin!

 

[LittleP]

What!?

Loathe Dickens! That's blasphemy! I won't argue at all that writing styles have changed since the 19th century, but maybe it's just a personal preference on my part... I look to Dickens for writing pointers long before I pick up someone contemporary like, say, Danielle Steel.

Come to think of it, this is pretty off-topic, isn't it?

 

[Closet Desire]

Never forget...

...that Dicken's--more than most--was a "common" writer and that the work we think of as "classic" today was pulp fiction then--destined for the penny dreadfuls. The 19th century was full of work written as pulp and included names we recognise today as greats.

Asimov's trilogy was originally pulp in Analog magazine (I think that's the name) so who knows what will push the right buttons and what will not.

I think it's brilliant to look at what these writers did and then use it what we write today. Something really clever then is often just as if not more than clever today.

Speaking of Dickens--there's a lovely second hand book shop here and one day, as I was collecting up a complete set of Scott's work in an 1850 edition I watched a young man gathering up a set of similar editions of Dickens. Of course I just shuddered but my wife asked him if he studied Dickens.

The man looked surprised and then said "Oh! Is that who it is?" He looked at the spine and then said "No, I just thought they would look cool on my bookshelf!" The shop owner told me that the best stuff, in leather binders, gets shipped to the US to go on the bookshelves of wealthy folks as decoration.

Sigh...

 

[LittleP]

Decorations

Wow....

Deep sigh....

Wish I had the money to buy the good stuff!

 

[RichandSis]

As a computer nerd I may have an answer on the mystery of the missing lie.

Many of us use Microsoft Word as our tool of choice when writing. And use it's built in spell/grammar check feature. That dictionary always suggests that 'laid down' should be changed to 'lay down' when writing in the past tense.

Without the confidence that more experienced writers have, many of us tend to rely on these automated tools, me included. It is only by reading others work, and lots of practice, that we can even hope to overcome our shortcomings.

I can give one piece of advice that teachers have been trying to pound in my head for 50+ years. ‘SLOW DOWN’

That one factor will help.

Thank you for all the help,
Richard