Goodreads by genre and sex

[astuffedshirt_perv]

Anyone else see this? Mostly that the 'erotica' genre is so heavily biased to women at 90% vs 10% male. Does that not apply here at Lit?

Goodreads graph

Thelwall, Mike, and Kayvan Kousha. “Goodreads: A Social Network Site for Book Readers.” Journal of the Association for Information Science and Technology, vol. 68, no. 4, Dec. 2016, pp. 972–83, https://doi.org/10.1002/asi.23733.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

No, here it's the opposite, probably somewhere between 65 and 85% men.

Erotica downloads are different. Women read smutty novels. Men read smutty free short stories.

We all love lit because it's free and it has huge traffic. Lit does not get huge traffic by accident. It does not get the traffic that it does simply through individuals googling 'sexy stories'. Lit advertises. However since lit is a smut site, there are limited places where lit can advertise. It can't put banners or youtube nor kijiji, nor any other mainstream web advertiser. So it posts its banners on porn sites. Who watches free porn sites? 90% men. What are these men looking for when they come to lit? The same thing that they're looking for in free porn thumbs - quick easy faps. They don't like plot, they don't like deep characters, they don't care about backstory, and they certainly don't care about any plausibility nor motive. They just want eager and aggressive women to do sexy stuff to men, quickly. Why does this woman want to please him so badly? No reason, she just does. What a wonderful fantasy world this is! Women just put out. What more would anyone want? They don't even like fleshed out male characters. It either just makes it harder for them to place themselves into the male lead to live out the fantasy - or in some cases reading sexy details about another man makes them feel gay.

So that is why the demographics of the lit short fap audience is almost the exact opposite of erotic novel downloads. Women care about the characters more. Women like the occasional sexy man (go figure?). Women like a little plot (even if these plots are largely cookie-cutters). Guys aren't interested in that. Just give them sluts and faceless gameless men. Most porn watching men can't relate to a charming man. When they read one they disconnect. They haven't the interest in nor the imagination to be charming. Free porn skanks do that to them. Before internet porn men fantasized about being Han Solo or Bruce Wayne or James Bond. Not anymore. Too much work. Just bring on the eager aggressive skanks and give them a beer. Free internet porn kills men's imaginations. That's why they dominate here.

 

[StillStunned]

No, here it's the opposite, probably somewhere between 65 and 85% men.

Erotica downloads are different. Women read smutty novels. Men read smutty free short stories.

We all love lit because it's free and it has huge traffic. Lit does not get huge traffic by accident. It does not get the traffic that it does simply through individuals googling 'sexy stories'. Lit advertises. However since lit is a smut site, there are limited places where lit can advertise. It can't put banners or youtube nor kijiji, nor any other mainstream web advertiser. So it posts its banners on porn sites. Who watches free porn sites? 90% men. What are these men looking for when they come to lit? The same thing that they're looking for in free porn thumbs - quick easy faps. They don't like plot, they don't like deep characters, they don't care about backstory, and they certainly don't care about any plausibility nor motive. They just want eager and aggressive women to do sexy stuff to men, quickly. Why does this woman want to please him so badly? No reason, she just does. What a wonderful fantasy world this is! Women just put out. What more would anyone want? They don't even like fleshed out male characters. It either just makes it harder for them to place themselves into the male lead to live out the fantasy - or in some cases reading sexy details about another man makes them feel gay.

So that is why the demographics of the lit short fap audience is almost the exact opposite of erotic novel downloads. Women care about the characters more. Women like the occasional sexy man (go figure?). Women like a little plot (even if these plots are largely cookie-cutters). Guys aren't interested in that. Just give them sluts and faceless gameless men. Most porn watching men can't relate to a charming man. When they read one they disconnect. They haven't the interest in nor the imagination to be charming. Free porn skanks do that to them. Before internet porn men fantasized about being Han Solo or Bruce Wayne or James Bond. Not anymore. Too much work. Just bring on the eager aggressive skanks and give them a beer. Free internet porn kills men's imaginations. That's why they dominate here.

You seem to have some very strong ideas about the quality of the writing, and of the readers, here on Lit. I think the reality is far more nuanced than you suggest.

 

[samhasstories]

No, here it's the opposite, probably somewhere between 65 and 85% men.

Erotica downloads are different. Women read smutty novels. Men read smutty free short stories.

We all love lit because it's free and it has huge traffic. Lit does not get huge traffic by accident. It does not get the traffic that it does simply through individuals googling 'sexy stories'. Lit advertises. However since lit is a smut site, there are limited places where lit can advertise. It can't put banners or youtube nor kijiji, nor any other mainstream web advertiser. So it posts its banners on porn sites. Who watches free porn sites? 90% men. What are these men looking for when they come to lit? The same thing that they're looking for in free porn thumbs - quick easy faps. They don't like plot, they don't like deep characters, they don't care about backstory, and they certainly don't care about any plausibility nor motive. They just want eager and aggressive women to do sexy stuff to men, quickly. Why does this woman want to please him so badly? No reason, she just does. What a wonderful fantasy world this is! Women just put out. What more would anyone want? They don't even like fleshed out male characters. It either just makes it harder for them to place themselves into the male lead to live out the fantasy - or in some cases reading sexy details about another man makes them feel gay.

So that is why the demographics of the lit short fap audience is almost the exact opposite of erotic novel downloads. Women care about the characters more. Women like the occasional sexy man (go figure?). Women like a little plot (even if these plots are largely cookie-cutters). Guys aren't interested in that. Just give them sluts and faceless gameless men. Most porn watching men can't relate to a charming man. When they read one they disconnect. They haven't the interest in nor the imagination to be charming. Free porn skanks do that to them. Before internet porn men fantasized about being Han Solo or Bruce Wayne or James Bond. Not anymore. Too much work. Just bring on the eager aggressive skanks and give them a beer. Free internet porn kills men's imaginations. That's why they dominate here.

We also love Lit because we can engage with our sexual fantasies without facing judgment. That's what you meant by all that, right?

 

[SimonDoom]

An awful lot of what is called "erotica" out there in the published world is basically romance, spiced up with some sex. It's not explicit like what you get here at Literotica. Women are by far the major consumers of romance novels, and I think that's what you're seeing with this data and the way it contrasts with the numbers at Literotica, which apparently skew far more male.

I don't think it has anything to do with depth or character, because an awful lot of romance fiction is completely superficial and cliche-ridden. It's no more sophisticated than the sex stories at Literotica. It's just different subject matter. Women care far more about romance; men are more content with sex stories that don't involve romance in the same way. These, obviously, are just crude generalizations.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Certainly there are all kinds here, every taste imaginable. But the bulk of that huge traffic that we all love are quick fap men from porn sites. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. It just is. How else do you think these thousands of 2-3k word cardboard strokers get Red Hs? It's from all of these guys. Just keep that in mind about the audience. That's all that I'm saying.

And I'm certainly not saying that women are more cerebral. Women love their Harlequin romances (1500 printed titles per year!) and Hallmark movies. These things stink. I did mention women-centric cookie-cutter fantasy plots above. For real. Soapy tears and happy endings may be different than eager sluts, but they are a cheap addiction all the same.

 

[SimonDoom]

Certainly there are all kinds here, every taste imaginable. But the bulk of that huge traffic that we all love are quick fap men from porn sites. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. It just is. How else do you think these thousands of 2-3k word cardboard strokers get Red Hs? It's from all of these guys. Just keep that in mind about the audience. That's all that I'm saying.

And I'm certainly not saying that women are more cerebral. Women love their Harlequin romances (1500 printed titles per year!) and Hallmark movies. These things stink. I did mention women-centric cookie-cutter fantasy plots above. For real. Soapy tears and happy endings may be different than eager sluts, but they are a cheap addiction all the same.

You keep saying this, over and over, but at the same time you offer no data to support it, and you've admitted before that you don't read many stories here. The data, such as it has been collected, doesn't support you. 2000-3000 word stories in general do NOT get the highest scores, or the most views, or the most votes, or the most favorites, at this Site. The stories that do "best" tend to be longer, upwards of 10,000 plus words, which is long for a short story. Your description of what does well at Literotica runs counter to my experience of 20 years as a reader here, and it conflicts with the data 8Letters has gathered and posted about what's successful. All you have to do is check out the stories that tend to place in the top three of contests and you'll see that they don't fit your description of what people want to read at Literotica. I get the feeling from what you write that you don't read those stories, so you don't know.

 

[StillStunned]

There's the extra confusion about readers, writers and posters here being for all intents and purposes anonymous. Men writing under a female identity, either to explore that side of their personality or because female writers are likely to draw readers. Women writing as men because they've been harassed under a female account. People posting here as a different gender to attract or avoid attention.

And all this is assuming they even use an account, or include any information or hints about their gender identity. I suspect that the vast majority of people reading stories on Lit never create an account, but just open the site and click on whatever story appeals most to them.

So as to who reads the stories, I really doubt there's any way to make even a half-decent guess.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

An awful lot of what is called "erotica" out there in the published world is basically romance, spiced up with some sex. It's not explicit like what you get here at Literotica. Women are by far the major consumers of romance novels, and I think that's what you're seeing with this data and the way it contrasts with the numbers at Literotica, which apparently skew far more male.

I don't think it has anything to do with depth or character, because an awful lot of romance fiction is completely superficial and cliche-ridden. It's no more sophisticated than the sex stories at Literotica. It's just different subject matter. Women care far more about romance; men are more content with sex stories that don't involve romance in the same way. These, obviously, are just crude generalizations.

Certainly there are all kinds here, every taste imaginable. But the bulk of that huge traffic that we all love are quick fap men from porn sites. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. It just is. How else do you think these thousands of 2-3k word cardboard strokers get Red Hs? It's from all of these guys. Just keep that in mind about the audience. That's all that I'm saying.

And I'm certainly not saying that women are more cerebral. Women love their Harlequin romances (1500 printed titles per year!) and Hallmark movies. These things stink. I did mention women-centric cookie-cutter fantasy plots above. For real. Soapy tears and happy endings may be different than eager sluts, but they are a cheap addiction all the same.

We basically just said the exact same things here yet you have to put me in my place for being wrong.

 

[AG31]

No, here it's the opposite, probably somewhere between 65 and 85% men.

Erotica downloads are different. Women read smutty novels. Men read smutty free short stories.

We all love lit because it's free and it has huge traffic. Lit does not get huge traffic by accident. It does not get the traffic that it does simply through individuals googling 'sexy stories'. Lit advertises. However since lit is a smut site, there are limited places where lit can advertise. It can't put banners or youtube nor kijiji, nor any other mainstream web advertiser. So it posts its banners on porn sites. Who watches free porn sites? 90% men. What are these men looking for when they come to lit? The same thing that they're looking for in free porn thumbs - quick easy faps. They don't like plot, they don't like deep characters, they don't care about backstory, and they certainly don't care about any plausibility nor motive. They just want eager and aggressive women to do sexy stuff to men, quickly. Why does this woman want to please him so badly? No reason, she just does. What a wonderful fantasy world this is! Women just put out. What more would anyone want? They don't even like fleshed out male characters. It either just makes it harder for them to place themselves into the male lead to live out the fantasy - or in some cases reading sexy details about another man makes them feel gay.

So that is why the demographics of the lit short fap audience is almost the exact opposite of erotic novel downloads. Women care about the characters more. Women like the occasional sexy man (go figure?). Women like a little plot (even if these plots are largely cookie-cutters). Guys aren't interested in that. Just give them sluts and faceless gameless men. Most porn watching men can't relate to a charming man. When they read one they disconnect. They haven't the interest in nor the imagination to be charming. Free porn skanks do that to them. Before internet porn men fantasized about being Han Solo or Bruce Wayne or James Bond. Not anymore. Too much work. Just bring on the eager aggressive skanks and give them a beer. Free internet porn kills men's imaginations. That's why they dominate here.

Once again I have to say that I find your generalizations ridiculous.

 

[NoTalentHack]

We basically just said the exact same things here yet you have to put me in my place for being wrong.

That's because you are wrong. You offer up the same basic comment over and over again ("Everyone/the vast majority is here for short strokers") without any stats to back it up, and almost always ignoring or waving aside any counterarguments. Or, alternately, going silent when someone does, then popping back up to make the same wrong argument all over again in another thread.

Occasionally, you'll change up your tactics, like moving the goalposts to say "well, here's this small cadre of readers that prove my point," usually bringing up the folks you interact with in chat. That, of course, ignores that the number of people regularly in chat is both a very fairly small and a self-selecting subset of the readers here, and they're often going to be the ones most looking for the type of pieces you describe. They want smut to stroke to, they want it now, and any more setup than "okay, you're a hot college girl, and I'm her professor" is wasted on them. You already understand at least part of this; God knows you complain often enough about how they don't like plot in your stories. Other people have gone over this ad nauseam, though, including at least one longtime former administrator of an adult chat forum.

Damn near everyone here who writes stories with minimal-to-no-sex, both plot-driven and character-driven, can point to stories of theirs that score well, that received numerous comments praising the content (or arguing about plot points as opposed to lack of sex), and are widely favorited. Are some people here for strokers? Sure. Due to the way "reads" are counted, do they show up higher on the "most read?" Yes. But pretending that they represent the majority of the readership is nonsense and insupportable by the numbers.

Strokers can do well here. Plot-dense stories can do well here. Longer works, shorter works, spicy or mild, kinky or vanilla, they all have their place here. Is scoring directly correlated to writing? No, but it is at least reasonably correlated, as long as you don't post a story in a place where people are likely to hate it, e.g. non-con in First Time. If someone wonders why they aren't scoring better, blaming the readers is silly, as is assuming their own shit doesn't stink; "overwritten" is not the same as "well-written," after all.

 

[SimonDoom]

We basically just said the exact same things here yet you have to put me in my place for being wrong.

We DON'T say the same thing. You keep saying things like "the bulk of that huge traffic that we all love are quick fap men from porn sites." I've never said that, and I see no reason to believe it. You offer no reason or evidence to support your belief in it. The evidence I see contradicts it. You have admitted that you don't read stories here, so why have an opinion at all? It's not based on anything but speculation inside your head. I've been reading stories here for 20 years and the stories I've read don't fit your description.

 

[KeithD]

Yes, I just post stories here so that actively gay men will have someplace to fap about other actively gay men until their next hook up. But damned if people don't insist on commenting on my stories' plotlines. Go figure. And damned if some of them don't self-identify as female.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

God knows you complain often enough about how they don't like plot in your stories.

No, I do not. I almost never even talk about my own stories. let alone complain about the response to them. I have never complained once. Post search me on that before you stick your foot in your mouth next time.

 

[KeithD]

So as to who reads the stories, I really doubt there's any way to make even a half-decent guess.

I agree with this.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

You have admitted that you don't read stories here

No, I have admitted that I don't often stories here. Hyperbole works for you but not for me? Get back to me when you're willing to debate on a level field. Until then, I'm not going to waste time arguing with a three year old.

 

[onehitwanda]

 

[NoTalentHack]

No, I do not. I almost never even talk about my own stories. let alone complain about the response to them. I have never complained once. Post search me on that before you stick your foot in your mouth next time.

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/intelligent-stories-that-don’t-insult-you.1595660/page-2#post-97569798

Let me tell you, they don't like plot. Oh, here and there some appreciate it but by and large, they hate it. They tell me so straight up. They're bored with my plot.

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/yeah-awww.1603957/#post-98301634

I highly doubt that it's anyone who has actually read the stories. It's either some snowflake here in this forum who is hopelessly butthurt by something that I said, or more likely it's someone in chat, except that when it's someone from chat I basically know who it is and this time I really have no clue which increases the chance that it's actually someone from AH. Either way they are hopping onto multiple accounts to bomb me. The last time that this happened the sweeps only removed about half of the bomb votes. Whatever.

https://forum.literotica.com/thread...i-need-help-foks.1605614/page-2#post-98447237

I write stuff that I consider a certain higher level of literature and even many of my detractors have conceded this despite not liking my work. I still write smut. Yes I have elements of story, plot, motive, immersion, dialogue and other things, but my sex scenes are still rutty sweaty lascivious glorious smut, even when they're sweet and emotional.

I have tons more (searching that up took a couple minutes), but you get the point. You do regularly talk about your stories, and when you go, it’s usually correlated with “and I know they didn’t do well because they’re too (insert reason that points fingers at the site/readers here). Therefore, you shouldn’t believe that (scores/favorites/comments) mean anything either.”

 

[Djmac1031]

Certainly there are all kinds here, every taste imaginable. But the bulk of that huge traffic that we all love are quick fap men from porn sites. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. It just is. How else do you think these thousands of 2-3k word cardboard strokers get Red Hs? It's from all of these guys. Just keep that in mind about the audience. That's all that I'm saying.

That, I get.

Because you're right. There are some... And I'm being kind ... Very basic stories here. Guy meets Girl. Guy fucks Girl. The End.

Bad grammar. Bad spelling. No plot. No characterization. Many read like a basic porn script.

And yet we see readers rave over them. "Made me hard! 5 Stars! More!"

Meanwhile the story we slaved over for days, weeks, months, languishes in obscurity.

It is what it is. Most readers here just want to spank it out and go.

Those of us looking to write something slightly more sophisticated than that are left with the rest. Because there are people out there looking for more out of the stories here than Boy Fucks Slut.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/intelligent-stories-that-don’t-insult-you.1595660/page-2#post-97569798


https://forum.literotica.com/threads/yeah-awww.1603957/#post-98301634


https://forum.literotica.com/thread...i-need-help-foks.1605614/page-2#post-98447237


I have tons more (searching that up took a couple minutes), but you get the point. You do regularly talk about your stories, and when you go, it’s usually correlated with “and I know they didn’t do well because they’re too (insert reason that points fingers at the site/readers here). Therefore, you shouldn’t believe that (scores/favorites/comments) mean anything either.”

None of those are complaints. Try again.

 

[NoTalentHack]

None of those are complaints. Try again.

LOL if you say so.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I think the topic that this thread has derailed into is an interesting one, so it would benefit from a somewhat less "heated" discussion. I believe that the term @SimonDoom used should be properly defined before we can talk meaningfully about it. I mean the "stories that are doing well" statement. What does it mean "doing well" precisely? I think it's important to define this more closely.
Is it stories with a huge amount of views? High score? A large amount of votes and still a decent score? A lot of comments? A lot of positive comments? A lot of detailed and meaningful feedback? Stories that are favorited many times? Stories that bring many followers? Stories that end up high on top lists? Stories that lead to the commercial success of the author on Smashwords or through Patreon?
I am saying this because I believe we don't all see "doing well" in the same way.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think the topic that this thread has derailed into is an interesting one, so it would benefit from a somewhat less "heated" discussion. I believe that the term @SimonDoom used should be properly defined before we can talk meaningfully about it. I mean the "stories that are doing well" statement. What does it mean "doing well" precisely? I think it's important to define this more closely.
Is it stories with a huge amount of views? High score? A large amount of votes and still a decent score? A lot of comments? A lot of positive comments? A lot of detailed and meaningful feedback? Stories that are favorited many times? Stories that bring many followers? Stories that end up high on top lists? Stories that lead to the commercial success of the author on Smashwords or through Patreon?
I am saying this because I believe we don't all see "doing well" in the same way.

Agreed, there's no one way to look at "doing well." But for purposes of the response to pinksilkglove, it doesn't matter. Whatever measure of "doing well" you want to adopt, the generalizations are inaccurate. This is a very big and diverse site with a huge readership with diverse tastes. There is some evidence of short stroke stories that PSG is talking about that get a lot of views, but there are plenty of stories that do not fit this description that get many views as well. And as for other measures of success, like favorites, or high scores, the generalization is just plain wrong. Anyone who takes a little time to read the stories or look at the top lists or the favorites lists can confirm this. Longer stories with character development have a very strong track record here, by any measure.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I think the topic that this thread has derailed into is an interesting one, so it would benefit from a somewhat less "heated" discussion. I believe that the term @SimonDoom used should be properly defined before we can talk meaningfully about it. I mean the "stories that are doing well" statement. What does it mean "doing well" precisely? I think it's important to define this more closely.
Is it stories with a huge amount of views? High score? A large amount of votes and still a decent score? A lot of comments? A lot of positive comments? A lot of detailed and meaningful feedback? Stories that are favorited many times? Stories that bring many followers? Stories that end up high on top lists? Stories that lead to the commercial success of the author on Smashwords or through Patreon?
I am saying this because I believe we don't all see "doing well" in the same way.

Good point. I will just share my own perception of what "doing well" means to me as a writer who submits stories here:

• Consistency - Does the story maintain the scoring and viewership it established over several months or years?
• Feedback - Does the story still motivate readers to provide regular feedback on it?
• Motivation - Does the story still provide incentive for readers to check out my other stories?

A story is "doing well" if I can look back on its history here and still feel proud of it.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I strongly disagree with the generalizations of some in this thread about the readership at Literotic. There is no reliable way to test readers on a site that is A. Free, B. worldwide, C. filled with every kind of kink (other than beastality and underage), D. used by unregistered users, and E. has no way in place to reliably poll even registered users about their likes and dislikes.