God and War

[sweetnpetite]

IF God is really on your side, why do you need to fight at all?

Why not just pray that he smite your enemy, striking them all down from on high?

Seems logical.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Praying would be a lot cheaper, let's give it a try....Nope, it doesn't seem to be working. Back to the drawing board.

 

[Guest]

Oh



My



God

 

[cheerful_deviant]

In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time.

- The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Meditation on the Divine Will" (September 2, 1862?), pp. 403-404.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Oh



My



God

That's about how all of my communication with the almighty goes. "Oh yeah, Jesus!"

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by sweetnpetite
IF God is really on your side, why do you need to fight at all?

Why not just pray that he smite your enemy, striking them all down from on high?

Seems logical.

Same reason I root for my son at his little league game, but I'm not going to hit the ball for him.

 

[SummerMorning]

In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time.

- The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Meditation on the Divine Will" (September 2, 1862?), pp. 403-404.

Yes he can.

If this world is god's creation, god is obviously suffering from a multiple personality disorder, not to mention ADD.

 

[Liar]

IF God is really on your side, why do you need to fight at all?

Why not just pray that he smite your enemy, striking them all down from on high?

Because god just would tell me "Do it yasself, you lazy, spoiled punk."

 

[Guest]

IF God is really on your side, why do you need to fight at all?

Why not just pray that he smite your enemy, striking them all down from on high?

Seems logical.

Because talking to someone/something that isn't really there is impossible, and using that same someone/something as an excuse or reason to fight is an easy cop-out.

That's my logic and I'm sticking to it.

Lou

 

[rgraham666]

If someone says they are killing in God's name, they're lying.

 

[oggbashan]

I have a WWI German soldier's belt.

The buckle is inscribed 'Gott Mit Uns' - God With Us.

As my friend's father (a WWI veteran) told me:

"The first time I saw that German inscription that I thought 'Odd. I thought He was with us.' After surviving two years on the Western Front I thought 'He isn't with either of us or He'd have stopped this long ago.'. After the Armistice I thought that God must have turned his attention away from Earth for a moment in his timescale and in that time we killed 20 million of each other. I just hope He doesn't turn away again or the human race won't survive."

Og

 

[fifty5]

In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time.

- The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Meditation on the Divine Will" (September 2, 1862?), pp. 403-404.

I see two ways that Abe's problem can be resolved:

1. The thing that God actually is 'for' is war itself - humans killing each other - or
2. There ain't no such thing as God...

I go for the second one, despite the old maxim that "There are no atheists in foxholes!"

19 days ago I went in to the local casualty department, because I'd banged my ribs and they were "£$%^&*" painful. The x-rays showed no bone damage, so the recommended treatment was simply pain killers till it stopped hurting.

But...

Today I got a letter from my own GP asking me to make an appointment for tests relating to "some changes in the lungs, unrelated to your injury."

To a 40-a-day man, that's suggestive...

I still don't believe in God!

f6

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

There are more than just the two options (as a democratic response):

1) God doesn't exist.
2) God exists and isn't aware of the situation.
3) God exists, is aware of the situation and cannot do anything about it.
4) God exists, is aware of the situation and doesn't want to do anything about it.
5) God exists, is aware of the situation and is doing something about it.
6) God exists, is aware of the situation and is propogating it ("for" it).

I think there might be others, but there you go.

Personally, I believe #5.

 

[Liar]

Personally, I believe #5.

Which would be: 5) God exists, is aware of the situation and is doing something about it.

If so, God must have the weirdest agenda ever.

#L, happily indesicive between #1, #2, #3 and #4

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Liar
Which would be: 5) God exists, is aware of the situation and is doing something about it.

If so, God must have the weirdest agenda ever.

#L, happily indesicive between #1, #2, #3 and #4

Martin Luther King, Jr.; Ghandi; Mother Teresa... I think God's agenda is fine.

 

[Edward Teach]

With God On Our Side

With God On Our Side
Bob Dylan

Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And the land that I live in
Has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.

The Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns on their hands
And God on their side.

The First World War, boys
It came and it went
The reason for fighting
I never did get
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And then we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

I've learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war comes
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

Ed

 

[Liar]

Martin Luther King, Jr.; Ghandi; Mother Teresa... I think God's agenda is fine.

Your god is clearly not omnipotent then. Because that would also include Mao Tse-Tung, Peewee Herman and Paris Hilton in the agenda.

Now that's what they call mysterious ways.

#L

 

[Guest]

Mao Tse-Tung, Peewee Herman and Paris Hilton

I want to mind-meld with you. P.

 

[fifty5]

Re: With God On Our Side

With God On Our Side
Bob Dylan
...
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

Ed

Brother, you and Bobby D said a mouthful!

f6

 

[Liar]

I want to mind-meld with you. P.

Rowr, you make it sound so...durty.

Beware what you wish for. My mind is a catalouge of mass media consumption impressions, that has had a one-night stand with a lawnmover. These days it's me and the duct-tape trying to patch it together into coherent sentences.

#L

 

[Guest]

... My mind is a catalouge of mass media consumption impressions, that has had a one-night stand with a lawnmover. These days it's me and the duct-tape trying to patch it together into coherent sentences.

Backing... away... erm... ta...

Perdita

 

[English Lady]

Martin Luther King, Jr.; Ghandi; Mother Teresa... I think God's agenda is fine.

Amen.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Liar
Your god is clearly not omnipotent then. Because that would also include Mao Tse-Tung, Peewee Herman and Paris Hilton in the agenda.

Now that's what they call mysterious ways.

#L

No, he's not necessarily so.

 

[cantdog]

Rowr, you make it sound so...durty.

Beware what you wish for. My mind is a catalouge of mass media consumption impressions, that has had a one-night stand with a lawnmover. These days it's me and the duct-tape trying to patch it together into coherent sentences.

#L

But you have a great voice!



With regard to the thread:

Firstly, second-guessing God is a mug's game. You're bound to have it wrong. He has more information than you do. If he doesn't, why waste your time?

Adopting God for your team is idolatry; it's subordinating God to be another believer in the new belief, whatever belief it was that made *you* take a side. Your equal, a teammate.

Abe had it right. God is not on those teams, any of them. Those teams are supposed to be getting onto God's team.

But I never worry about any of it, since I'm an atheist. I take it as one more reductio, demonstrating yet again that the belief of religionists does not even agree with itself. A system with so many self-contradictions has to be wrong, regardless whether God exists.

cantdog

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

There are more than just the two options (as a democratic response):

1) God doesn't exist.
2) God exists and isn't aware of the situation.
3) God exists, is aware of the situation and cannot do anything about it.
4) God exists, is aware of the situation and doesn't want to do anything about it.
5) God exists, is aware of the situation and is doing something about it.
6) God exists, is aware of the situation and is propogating it ("for" it).

That's an excellent list Joe. Personally, I'll take number 4.
Why should he want to do something? Most wars are religious. Believers against non-believers, i.e. Christians against Communist. Or Believers against those who don't believe our way. i.e. Christians against Muslims, Allies against Axis, Serbs against Croats.
As John Lennon sang:



Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No Hell below us
Above us, only sky
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one