Global overpopulation

[Mike_Yates]

What would Bill Gates do?

http://blogoehlert.typepad.com/eclippings/images/2008/07/14/billgates_angry21.jpg

 

[badbabysitter]

What would Bill Gates do?

http://blogoehlert.typepad.com/eclippings/images/2008/07/14/billgates_angry21.jpg

probably say something like " 640 k of people left on earth is enough for everybody"

 

[Adre]

This thread is so full of dumb I'm afraid it could be contagious.

 

[Balcor44]

.......

 

[run_silent]

The white house was purchased by the large "we must have a surplus populatiom to buy our stuff" corporations for a puppet president by the name of Regan. He did more damage to our country than will ever be known.

Zero Populatiom still exists and there are other groups still fighting the good fight.

Lighten up Francis

 

[badbabysitter]

They failed to prove overpopulation. You can fit every person on earth in Texas with 1,000 square feet each. Amicus is right, nature will fix any population problems, just like it does with all other animals.

the dumb is strong with this one

 

[amicus]

name calling won't change that none of your pondering diatribes have anything to do with the subject matter


you are trying to present an opinion as fact and have absolutely nothing to back it up

please dont lecture me on rationality when you have brought exactly nothing to the table that even remotely resembles rational thought

if you're going to bitch about me posting facts... an opinion isnt going to change them...facts dont change...it's kinda why they are called facts


when you show something to back up any of your claims then and only then will you be able to be more then a tired old small town radio hack


too tough for your elementary school credits?

~~~

You really do not understand, do you?

Picture this if you will, you and I on a stage debating an issue; in your perception, it is pointless because there are no 'concrete' facts to be presented except from memory.

You mis the entire meaning of the exchange of ideas without quoting others. I have little or no respect for those with a liberat arts education, all most do is point to others.

There is a tremendous and catastrophic fault in your education; you cannot make the connection between the concrete and the conceptual abstraction of an idea.

Only in hard science, and not always even there, do bare 'facts' prove anything.

Facts provide a foundation for rational thought; facts are only observations of reality, not definitions or concepts, those all come from the human mind.

Over the years of debate and dicussion, long before I ever arrived here, I found a consistent disconnection between artistically talented people and the world of science. Even Art is not totally subjective as it describes the essence of an existent and therefore is as valid as a photograph.

Liberal arts students, mostly women, make up the base of those who look to others, to present their opinions.

It is a complete philosophy for those who think as you do, a hive mentality wherein only the 'whole' can decide an issue, a fact,or a practicality.

You truly do not understand that it all begins right here in this one single, brilliant brain of mine. Every thing begins with the individual in my philosophy, yours only exists in group form.

I beloabor this point to impress upon those interested, the logical conclusion of a group or socialist philosophy and that is the total abolishment of individual rights.

My philosophy, the American philosophy of individual rights and liberties protected by law also has a logical conclusion: human freedom and full rights.

It is white or black, it is not grey. You either choose to be free or you do not. It is not subjective, it is not relative, it is an either/or, free or not free.

There is not a single 'fact' in any of the above, but there is reality, objective, rational, logical thought and for t hose of you who follow this thinking, it is not new, 'to be or not to be'....a responsible individual.

Amicus

 

[KingOrfeo]

One should perhaps view the 'hockey stick' ruse of the global warning freaks and compare it to the wikipedia graph of human population.

There us no man made warming of the earth; none.

Climatologists believe there is.

The scientific opinion on climate change is that the Earth's climate system is unequivocally warming, and it is more than 90% certain that humans are causing it through activities that increase concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, such as deforestation and burning fossil fuels.[1][2][3][4] This scientific consensus is expressed in synthesis reports, scientific bodies of national or international standing, and surveys of opinion among climate scientists. Individual scientists, universities, and laboratories contribute to the overall scientific opinion via their peer-reviewed publications, and the areas of collective agreement and relative certainty are summarised in these high level reports and surveys.

National and international science academies and scientific societies have assessed the current scientific opinion, in particular on recent global warming. These assessments have largely followed or endorsed the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) position of January 2001 which states:

An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.[5]

The main conclusions of the IPCC on global warming were the following:

1.The global average surface temperature has risen 0.6 ± 0.2 °C since the late 19th century, and 0.17 °C per decade in the last 30 years.[6]

2."There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities", in particular emissions of the greenhouse gases carbon dioxide and methane.[7]

3.If greenhouse gas emissions continue the warming will also continue, with temperatures projected to increase by 1.4 °C to 5.8 °C between 1990 and 2100. Accompanying this temperature increase will be increases in some types of extreme weather and a projected sea level rise.[8] On balance the impacts of global warming will be significantly negative, especially for larger values of warming.[9]

No scientific body of national or international standing has maintained a dissenting opinion; the last was the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, which in 2007 updated its 1999 statement rejecting the likelihood of human influence on recent climate with its current non-committal position.[10][11] Some other organizations, primarily those focusing on geology, also hold non-committal positions. There are also groups of individuals outside national or international organizations that have expressed their dissenting opinions and counterarguments in venues such as public petitions.

 

[KingOrfeo]

As for overpopulation:

Overpopulation is the state of any species exceeding, in numbers, the ecological carrying capacity of its ecosystem. This is primarily expressed in terms of habitat and food supply available. In conventional predator-prey relationships (most commonly illustrated with rabbits and foxes), increased predator numbers mean that food supply drops and the population subsequently starves. The cycle completes as the population dwindles, allowing the prey population to recover.

This principle can be applied to human population growth just as much as it can to hypothetical rabbits and foxes. Ecological carrying capacity is established scientific fact, but often denied, or more usually, ignored in the pursuit of endless economic growth.


Overpopulation denialism

Denialism of overpopulation is common within fundamentalist Christianity, as well as the Catholic Church, who see any discussion of the issue as a violation of the Biblical commandment to "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth".[1]

There also exists a conspiracy theory that overpopulation is a cover issue for a plot to reduce the human population through genocide; this conspiracy theory is sometimes advanced, for example, by AIDS conspiracy theorists (who believe AIDS was created in a CIA lab to depopulate Africa), as well as perennial wingnut candidate Lyndon LaRouche.[2] The most common and popular form of overpopulation denialism these days, however, comes from the influence of free market economists, such as The Wall Street Journal, and the late Julian Simon (who is popular among libertarians).[3] This form of denialism teaches there are "no limits to growth", and is associated with the view that economic growth can and should continue indefinitely, and that continued economic growth depends on a perpetually growing human population. It is also closely tied to excessive optimism over globalization and technology, as well as economic deregulation. These views are collectively sometimes referred to as "cornucopian" - in that they believe there is an endless supply of matter to support an ever-growing population and economy. It denies the fact that at some point, the consumption demand will run up against natural limits in supply.

Another form of denialism comes from those on the other extreme of the issue, who believe carrying capacity is set in stone and deny that the carrying capacity can be increased due to science and advances in technology increasing food output, and from easier access to energy; see the "failed predictions" section below.


Failed predictions

On the other side of the coin, the scientific fact of overpopulation has led, in the past, to rash and inaccurate predictions of impending world famine which erred on the side of sensationalism over sober analysis. Thomas Malthus, one of the earliest to theorize about overpopulation, wrote in 1798 that the population would grow exponentially while the food supply would only grow arithmetically. During the 1960s, Paul Ehrlich predicted massive famine by the 1970s. Neither happened, although Ehrlich is a respected scientist and time will tell whether his prediction was completely off base or merely premature. (His prediction was also based on the assumption that the birth rate in the United States and other western countries would continue at high Baby Boom levels, and may well have been postponed by the birth rate dropping to near-replacement levels due to the sexual revolution and the related widespread availability of birth control, as well as by the "green revolution" in agricultural techniques increasing food output.)

Hard green ideologues, some of whom see humanity itself as a polluting influence on the earth, tend to be the biggest offenders in this area.


Solutions

Finding a solution to human overpopulation is difficult, in that it essentially requires people to reproduce in fewer numbers, something they may be unwilling to do, and any success is likely to be a very gradual process. Greater awareness of and access to contraception around the world would help promote population control, although this is opposed by some cultures and religions, particularly the Roman Catholic Church. There is an international childfree movement that may help curb the problem of overpopulation.

The People's Republic of China's response to its populations problems is the one-child policy, instituted and enforced since 1979, but this has been controversial as a human rights issue, as well as for its economic and societal consequences.

Another fairly extreme response is the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, which advocates that people everywhere should voluntarily desist from procreating so that humanity can become extinct and the world can recover from the damage we have caused it. Of course this is probably not going to happen without perhaps nuclear fallout and then we can see how the Earth fares in a destructive nuclear winter which then will wipe out all life or at least reduce it to microbes. This isn't, of course, counting all the things humans would need to shoot into space, or the fire in Centralia's mines which is never going out, or Chernobyl.

The demographic transition model holds that as nations transition from low-income, undeveloped nations to high-income, developed nations, their birth rate and death rate both drop. This model posits five stages, and in the fifth and last stage of demographic transition, population levels off and reaches a state of zero or negative population growth. With increased prosperity comes greater autonomy for women in society, better access to family planning and birth control, women entering the workplace and limiting their number of children, and more free flow of information (with the effect of secularizing the society and lessening the influence of religions which promote large families); conversely however, during the middle stages of the demographic transition the death rate drops faster than the birth rate, causing a temporary increase in population. Countries like Japan, and much of Europe, are at or near the final stage, and have achieved a state of zero-to-negative population growth without any need for coercive policies such as China's.

 

[badbabysitter]

~~~

You really do not understand, do you?

Picture this if you will, you and I on a stage debating an issue; in your perception, it is pointless because there are no 'concrete' facts to be presented except from memory.

You mis the entire meaning of the exchange of ideas without quoting others. I have little or no respect for those with a liberat arts education, all most do is point to others.

There is a tremendous and catastrophic fault in your education; you cannot make the connection between the concrete and the conceptual abstraction of an idea.

Only in hard science, and not always even there, do bare 'facts' prove anything.

Facts provide a foundation for rational thought; facts are only observations of reality, not definitions or concepts, those all come from the human mind.

Over the years of debate and dicussion, long before I ever arrived here, I found a consistent disconnection between artistically talented people and the world of science. Even Art is not totally subjective as it describes the essence of an existent and therefore is as valid as a photograph.

Liberal arts students, mostly women, make up the base of those who look to others, to present their opinions.

It is a complete philosophy for those who think as you do, a hive mentality wherein only the 'whole' can decide an issue, a fact,or a practicality.

You truly do not understand that it all begins right here in this one single, brilliant brain of mine. Every thing begins with the individual in my philosophy, yours only exists in group form.

I beloabor this point to impress upon those interested, the logical conclusion of a group or socialist philosophy and that is the total abolishment of individual rights.

My philosophy, the American philosophy of individual rights and liberties protected by law also has a logical conclusion: human freedom and full rights.

It is white or black, it is not grey. You either choose to be free or you do not. It is not subjective, it is not relative, it is an either/or, free or not free.

There is not a single 'fact' in any of the above, but there is reality, objective, rational, logical thought and for t hose of you who follow this thinking, it is not new, 'to be or not to be'....a responsible individual.

Amicus

you have not presented any of this alleged hard science


all you've done is spout opinion


you babble ceaselessly but it doesnt change that you bring nothing to support your claims


backing up what you say is something everyone who isnt a coawrd learns to do...its called being a responsible individual

 

[amicus]

The global over population problem was solved during the early 80's when most of the human population was wiped out during global cooling.

~~~

Hear, Hear!

The do not like to be reminded how wrong they were and are and will be....thats what happens when you don't have a brain, just a puss....

 

[amicus]

You're so cute when you think you're people.

I'm not actually interested in reducing population growth, never was. The idea that capitalism is an effective population cap is laughable, you're claim that 1789 marked the beginning of this brave experiment isn't even revisionist history, it's an outright fabrication.

Personally I don't even believe your the real Amicus. I think someone hacked your account.

~~~~

Capitalism is a Das Kapital invention by Karl Marx; how ever the free market economy did indeed raise the living standard of all and fuel population growth, I mean you can read, right?

It went into effect on March 4, 1789. The first ten constitutional amendments ratified by three-fourths of the states in 1791 are known as the Bill of Rights.
1789...."

little history lessonfor you...you are, or, you're welcome...

ami

 

[Sean Renaud]

~~~~

Capitalism is a Das Kapital invention by Karl Marx; how ever the free market economy did indeed raise the living standard of all and fuel population growth, I mean you can read, right?



little history lessonfor you...you are, or, you're welcome...

ami

Absolutely adorable!

Still making shit up about the free market and it increasing the standard of living. I presume you have a time machine and can show me all the alternate routes we could have taken, or perhaps you can show us about how eighteenth century England was communist?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Amicus never attended college. He helped his kids with their homework and pronounced himself an educated man.

 

[amicus]

Oreo.... the earth has been warming for the past 13,000 years or so, on a Sunday afternoon. The earth will begin cooling into another Ice age at some point in the future,so the scientists say...and neither, in the least, is affected by the actions of mankind. There is a large collection of articles by TriSail that might educate you if you are looking for knowledge.

To all those young girls, young women, of child bearing age,who decided not to carry on their family line because of the ignorance of some about population growth, I apologize for them, they are all wrong.

It has to be cruel irony to those who hate humanity as an infestation, that along with our modern industrial society, birth rates have nat urally fallen, in some areas, below the two child per woman needed tomaintain a stable population.

What the anti-industrial primitives want, is a society like that in Africa, nothing modern, in da jongle,mama, and....they average, I think I read, 8 children per woman, the same the Ayrab world.

No man cause warming, no overfpopulation problem, and, news to you, I am certain,(shhhh no santa claus either)

Faiith and belief are necessary elements as a child learns, but should be put aside with all the other toys of childhood....I mean, if you have any intentions of maturing, you have to use your mind and think.

Amicus

 

[amicus]

Oreo.... the earth has been warming for the past 13,000 years or so, on a Sunday afternoon. The earth will begin cooling into another Ice age at some point in the future,so the scientists say...and neither, in the least, is affected by the actions of mankind. There is a large collection of articles by TriSail that might educate you if you are looking for knowledge.

To all those young girls, young women, of child bearing age,who decided not to carry on their family line because of the ignorance of some about population growth, I apologize for them, they are all wrong.

It has to be cruel irony to those who hate humanity as an infestation, that along with our modern industrial society, birth rates have naturally fallen, in some areas, below the two child per woman needed tomaintain a stable population.

What the anti-industrial primitives want, is a society like that in Africa, nothing modern, in da jongle,mama, and....they average, I think I read, 8 children per woman, the same as the Ayrab world.

No man caused warming, no overfpopulation problem, and, news to you, I am certain,(shhhh no santa claus either)

Faiith and belief are necessary elements as a child learns, but should be put aside with all the other toys of childhood....I mean, if you have any intentions of maturing, you have to use your mind and think.

Amicus

 

[unregistered]

 

[Ishmael]

Nothing has changed... you're just misinformed


this really doesnt come as a surpise

But, of course, you, the moron, are informed but incapable of articulating that information. Perhaps you just 'know' it because you are a woman/intuitive/have a crystal ball, or something of that nature.

As usual, you are quite incapable of articulating anything that approaches a cogent reply. Like the balance of your moronic ilk, a casual, dismissive, is sufficient for you to think that you've addressed the issue in a serious manner.

The reality of it is that Liberals, like you, can not survive without an impending global catastrophe. Genetically, or intellectually, you predisposed to the 'chicken little' syndrome. You don't see solutions, only the heavy hand of government through which you want to control ALL economic behavior. And exactly what is your personal benefit from all of this?

Ishmael

 

[badbabysitter]

But, of course, you, the moron, are informed but incapable of articulating that information. Perhaps you just 'know' it because you are a woman/intuitive/have a crystal ball, or something of that nature.

As usual, you are quite incapable of articulating anything that approaches a cogent reply. Like the balance of your moronic ilk, a casual, dismissive, is sufficient for you to think that you've addressed the issue in a serious manner.

The reality of it is that Liberals, like you, can not survive without an impending global catastrophe. Genetically, or intellectually, you predisposed to the 'chicken little' syndrome. You don't see solutions, only the heavy hand of government through which you want to control ALL economic behavior. And exactly what is your personal benefit from all of this?

Ishmael

you didnt even notice the link in my following post, did you


that pretty much makes everything else you say verbal diarrhea


dumbass

 

[badbabysitter]

If he did would you believe it?

that's only a theoritical question... because he's never going to do it

 

[unregistered]

 

[badbabysitter]

To all those young girls, young women, of child bearing age,who decided not to carry on their family line because of the ignorance of some about population growth, I apologize for them, they are all wrong.

problem, and, news to you, I am certain,(shhhh no santa claus either)

Faiith and belief are necessary elements as a child learns, but should be put aside with all the other toys of childhood....I mean, if you have any intentions of maturing, you have to use your mind and think.

Dumbassicus

really? you think the only reason women who decide to not have kids is due to population?


really?


really?


seriously man.. use your mind and think

 

[amicus]

Your truly sad limitations in , as Ismael put it, to 'articulate' anything, is becoming more apparent each time you type a word. Vetteman knows it and so do may others who remain silent. You can't even talk a good game, lip sync anyone?

You still, well, I think you just refuse on lack of principle, to understand reason, ratinality and logic. A is A, is axiomatic, it cannot be proven. I cannot show you one plus one equal two, but everyone on this forum knows it to be fact, except you, you j u s t don't get it.

Your solution for global warming even though not man made? Force people to do what you think they should do to alleviate a problem that is not caused by man. Again, There is no evidence of any kind to prove man caused temperatures to rise, not even a hundreth of a degree.

There is a gradual warming of the planet as we come out on an ice age and that, we can and have documented by ice cores, tree cores and other deductive conclusions supported by real evidence.

No evidence any warming was caused by man.

What these people want, as is clarified by the Kyoto agreement, is for the United States and other industrialized countries to support third world people until they can idustrialize themselves. What they reallly want and always want, is raw power, the bvarrel of a gun or a tax warrant to force you to insulate, use solar or wind poswer , all because of an ideological craphouse that we should all love nature, move out of the cities nad condo's and sing around a campfire. It is so silly one cannot believe that grown up people really advocate such idiocy.

And just who in the hell do you think you are, anyway? To force people to live the way you want them to, to coerce and then force people to lmiit their procreatioln because you think they should? Take care of your own worthless life and leave real people alone to live as they choose.

We don't needyou!

FUCK YOU!

Amicus the belligerent bastard!(alliteration)

 

[badbabysitter]

Your truly sad limitations in , as Ismael put it, to 'articulate' anything, is becoming more apparent each time you type a word. Vetteman knows it and so do may others who remain silent. You can even talk a good game, lip sync anyone?

You still, well, I think you just refuse on lack of principle, to understand reason, ratinality and logic. A is A, is axiomatic, it cannot be proven. I cannot show you one plus one equal two, but everyone on this forum knows it to be fact, except you, you j u s t don't get it.

Your solution for global warming even though not man made? Force people to do what you think they should do to alleviate a problem that is not caused by man. Again, There is no evidence of any kind to prove man caused temperatures to rise, not even a hundreth of a degree.

There is a gradual warming of the planet as we come out on an ice age and that, we can and have documented by ice cores, tree cores and other deductive conclusions supported by real evidence.

No evidence any warming was caused by man.

What these people want, as is clarified by the Kyoto agreement, is for the United States and other industrialized countries to support third world people until they can idustrialize themselves. What they reallly want and always want, is raw power, the bvarrel of a gun or a tax warrant to force you to insulate, use solar or wind poswer , all because of an ideological craphouse that we should all love nature, move out of the cities nad condo's and sing around a campfire. It is so silly one cannot believe that grown up people really advocate such idiocy.

And just who in the hell do you think you are, anyway? To force people to live the way you want them to, to coerce and then force people to lmiit their procreatioln because you think they should? Take care of your own worthless life and leave real people alone to live as they choose.

We don't needyou!

FUCK YOU!

Amicus the belligerent bastard!(alliteration)

Ishmeal didnt bother reading the link... your cowardice in not being to back up anything you claim is another story


I'm not forcing you to do anything...I'm calling you a coward because you havent brought forth anything to back them up....


rambling on and on pointlessly still doesnt change that you still are incapable of providing anything but your opinion on matters

 

[KingOrfeo]

There is a gradual warming of the planet as we come out on an ice age and that, we can and have documented by ice cores, tree cores and other deductive conclusions supported by real evidence.

No evidence any warming was caused by man.

Until the Industrial Revolution.