Getting your work stolen

[naughtygaywriter]

I found out recently that someone stole over 20 stories from me and published them as their own on Amazon. I already filed a copyright infringement with Amazon, so hopefully it will get taken care of soon.

Has anyone else gone through this? Does Amazon give you your rightful royalties or (providing its worth it) do I need to get a copyright lawyer involved?

I also figured out that the person took the stories from literotica based on what they took and not my personal site or any others that I post on. Does anyone know if Literotica helps with these cases or are we on our own?

 

[KeithD]

First questions. Is this in the United States? If so, did you actually formally file for copyright with the U.S. Copyright Office? If you don't hold a formal copyright in the United States, you have no legal standing for action (and, no, it doesn't matter what the Berne Convention says).

But, yes, Literotica stories are regularly swiped and published elsewhere. That's a risk you take by putting it on a free-access Internet site. And, yes, this periodically comes up and is discussed to death on the discussion board. There's a sticky at the top of the Author's Hangout that tells you what you can try to do about it.

 

[PennameWombat]

I found out recently that someone stole over 20 stories from me and published them as their own on Amazon. I already filed a copyright infringement with Amazon, so hopefully it will get taken care of soon.

Has anyone else gone through this? Does Amazon give you your rightful royalties or (providing its worth it) do I need to get a copyright lawyer involved?

I also figured out that the person took the stories from literotica based on what they took and not my personal site or any others that I post on. Does anyone know if Literotica helps with these cases or are we on our own?

Read this thread (it's at the very top of the Author's Hangout): https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1055555.

Sorry, you can't sue. You posted the stories on a 'free' website so the putative value is essentially... nil, making any damages... nil. Also, without registration of the copyright in the US you can't go through the federal court system and copyright is a federal right.

You can file DMCA reports to Amazon, again, see the link, but if you've done that, well, good. Literotica cannot file, Amazon only accepts reports from the copyright holder and they will probably get around to removing the works. Probably. Lit claims they'll remove any copyright violating stories posted on Lit and will ban accounts, but they can't/won't help you deal with Amazon beyond the pointers.

 

[HeyAll]

I only know of one of my detective stories being sold on Amazon. No one seems to have voted on it, as I recall. I don't really care since no one bought it.

Sometimes I'll get messages from readers that my stories were posted by other people on other sites. One my most popular stories here (Quarantined with Mom) was posted on another erotica website and I was at least pleased that there were a lot of glowing comments there. It was posted by someone who takes stories from other sites, but at least admits that.

Once a reader told me that my story was posted on this website which had the most unusual format. I still dont know what that was. But someone took my story and changed the names so all the characters were Japanese and I sent an email to the Admin, and the story was eventually taken down. A number of readers gave it good reviews though.

On two occations people have posted my story verbatim right here on Lit. I told Laurel and the people were banned.

 

[RejectReality]

On two occations people have posted my story verbatim right here on Lit. I told Laurel and the people were banned.

I had that happen on another site. I could tell from a couple of corrections I'd made from the original Lit posting that it was stolen from here. ( I try not to bother Laurel with minor edits, and just take my lumps on the mistakes. )

They got a Recommended Read tag on it

When I reported it, they removed the stolen copy, and the moderator who approved it gave my already posted story the RR tag, so all's well that ends well.

Stuff slips through even on a smaller site with a full team of moderators.

 

[LAHomedog]

First questions. Is this in the United States? If so, did you actually formally file for copyright with the U.S. Copyright Office? If you don't hold a formal copyright in the United States, you have no legal standing for action (and, no, it doesn't matter what the Berne Convention says).

But, yes, Literotica stories are regularly swiped and published elsewhere. That's a risk you take by putting it on a free-access Internet site. And, yes, this periodically comes up and is discussed to death on the discussion board. There's a sticky at the top of the Author's Hangout that tells you what you can try to do about it.

I'm apologize for disagreeing with you, but that isn't the case anymore. It use to be, and a lot people believe it is, but if you are in the USA, any work that you create and make public, published, art on display, video, etc. nowadays under our copyright law you own the copyright automatically. It does not have to be registered.

Trademarks are a different deal, and yes, they need to be certified by the trademark office, but copyrights no longer.

What one can do and action you can take, that's a different matter. There are no damages, so you can't really sue -- even though anybody can sue anyone at anytime. That doesn't mean it has merit -- I can't speak to what action one can take with Amazon and other sights. I know I do not post anything on here that I'm precious about. Digital is forever, and once you post it, how do you control how it is dispersed or stolen or used?

I have found a few of my stories on Russian sites. Don't know if anyone has stolen me yet for Amazon.

 

[RejectReality]

I'm apologize for disagreeing with you, but that isn't the case anymore. It use to be, and a lot people believe it is, but if you are in the USA, any work that you create and make public, published, art on display, video, etc. nowadays under our copyright law you own the copyright automatically. It does not have to be registered.

Having copyright and the ability to enforce that copyright are two different things. Without a formal filing, you don't get your foot in the door in the legal system. So essentially, you have nothing.

 

[XerXesXu]

nowadays under our copyright law you own the copyright automatically. It does not have to be registered.

Suppose the pirate has taken the trouble to register your work as his copyright, what then?

Do you have USA copyright but with no remedies if you're not registered? The same if you hold copyright in another jurisdiction; unless you register in the USA what remedies do you have in the USA?

The old adage was 'Where there's a right, there's a remedy', but not in US copyright law.

 

[LAHomedog]

Having copyright and the ability to enforce that copyright are two different things. Without a formal filing, you don't get your foot in the door in the legal system. So essentially, you have nothing.

Actually, not true. The foot in the door to the legal system is having a lawyer and filing a suit against the offender. But again, what are the damages? And is it worth the expense of the lawsuit?

If you are protecting a million seller, sure. porn from here? Maybe not.

 

[LAHomedog]

Suppose the pirate has taken the trouble to register your work as his copyright, what then?

Do you have USA copyright but with no remedies if you're not registered? The same if you hold copyright in another jurisdiction; unless you register in the USA what remedies do you have in the USA?

The old adage was 'Where there's a right, there's a remedy', but not in US copyright law.

Again, You automatically have the US copyright. Remedies? The same as if you registered it. You remedies are in the courts. Usually it starts with a cease and desist letter to the culprit. You have to lay claim to your rights.

And sorry, your last sentence is incorrect. I can write something, publish it, you can steal it, I can have my attorney write a cease and desist letter establishing my ownership and rights, and if you refuse, I can file a suit against you. And I would win. Expensive and win. There is absolutely no difference between being registered and not. You still have only one remedy. The courts.

I believe Keith was correctly describing his experience with the major publishing houses who do this to stake their claim up front. If a project is a major hit, there will be a zillon lawsuits claiming ownership and plagiarism. You have no idea how many 1,000s sued 20th Century Fox claiming that "Avatar" was their original idea.

In the USA, if you create it you own it. Boom. End of story. Other countries are different. I know France has very tricky copyright laws.

 

[lovecraft68]

Unfortunately this comes with the territory. You put something on the web for free, someone scoops it. In the realm of erotic stories Lit is the pirates biggest Grocery store.

The only solution to be able to avoid your work being lifted is to not post it here or on any other free site.

 

[LAHomedog]

Unfortunately this comes with the territory. You put something on the web for free, someone scoops it. In the realm of erotic stories Lit is the pirates biggest Grocery store.

The only solution to be able to avoid your work being lifted is to not post it here or on any other free site.

Exactly!! And that is why I'm struggling with my Mickey Spillane story. My IP attorney wife is deadset against me posting it because she believes it can be expanded another 20,000 words and submitted to publishers as a novel. (She has contacts.)

I have been attempting to write a shadow story that mimics what the book could become, but not the actual book, characters, or story. We'll see. Who wins in the debate.

Kind of difficult to win on IP issues with a IP attorney wife who handles some of the most high-profile projects on the planet.

But then again, it is my work and we have always respected the separation between hers and mine. She is what we call derisively "a suit." I am what they call demeaningly "talent."

The deadline will tell...

 

[XerXesXu]

Again, You automatically have the US copyright. Remedies? The same as if you registered it. You remedies are in the courts. Usually it starts with a cease and desist letter to the culprit. You have to lay claim to your rights.

And sorry, your last sentence is incorrect. I can write something, publish it, you can steal it, I can have my attorney write a cease and desist letter establishing my ownership and rights, and if you refuse, I can file a suit against you. And I would win. Expensive and win. There is absolutely no difference between being registered and not. You still have only one remedy. The courts.

I believe Keith was correctly describing his experience with the major publishing houses who do this to stake their claim up front. If a project is a major hit, there will be a zillon lawsuits claiming ownership and plagiarism. You have no idea how many 1,000s sued 20th Century Fox claiming that "Avatar" was their original idea.

In the USA, if you create it you own it. Boom. End of story. Other countries are different. I know France has very tricky copyright laws.

It hurts me to say this, but KeithD is correct.

410. Registration of claim and issuance of certificate
(c) In any judicial proceedings the certificate of a registration made before or within five years after first publication of the work shall constitute prima facie evidence of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate. The evidentiary weight to be accorded the certificate of a registration made thereafter shall be within the discretion of the court.


412. Registration as prerequisite to certain remedies for infringement12
In any action under this title, other than an action brought for a violation of the rights of the author under section 106A(a), an action for infringement of the copyright of a work that has been preregistered under section 408(f) before the commencement of the infringement and that has an effective date of registration not later than the earlier of 3 months after the first publication of the work or 1 month after the copyright owner has learned of the infringement, or an action instituted under section 411(c), no award of statutory damages or of attorney’s fees, as provided by sections 504 and 505, shall be made for—
(1) any infringement of copyright in an unpublished work commenced before the effective date of its registration; or
(2) any infringement of copyright commenced after first publication of the work and before the effective date of its registration, unless such registration is made within three months after the first publication of the work.



502. Remedies for infringement: Injunctions
503. Remedies for infringement: Impounding and disposition of infringing articles4
504. Remedies for infringement: Damages and profits5
505. Remedies for infringement: Costs and attorney’s fees

You’d be struggling uphill. If the pirate registers it, you'd do a copyright search, and it would be the in the pirate's pseudonym. Eventually, you get registered (How?), who would you sue? Platforms are protected, notice and takedown only, they’re not publishers.

Attorney’s and court fees to pay, no money in it for you if you win, just a restraining order against sock-puppet A. Sock-puppet B could pirate your work net day. Not worth powder and shot. Ask your wife how much of the monthly budget she would let you use to pursue unregistered copyright claims.

 

[PennameWombat]

Again, You automatically have the US copyright. Remedies? The same as if you registered it. You remedies are in the courts. Usually it starts with a cease and desist letter to the culprit. You have to lay claim to your rights.

And sorry, your last sentence is incorrect. I can write something, publish it, you can steal it, I can have my attorney write a cease and desist letter establishing my ownership and rights, and if you refuse, I can file a suit against you. And I would win. Expensive and win. There is absolutely no difference between being registered and not. You still have only one remedy. The courts.

I believe Keith was correctly describing his experience with the major publishing houses who do this to stake their claim up front. If a project is a major hit, there will be a zillon lawsuits claiming ownership and plagiarism. You have no idea how many 1,000s sued 20th Century Fox claiming that "Avatar" was their original idea.

In the USA, if you create it you own it. Boom. End of story. Other countries are different. I know France has very tricky copyright laws.

Partially correct. You indeed automatically own the copyright once you’ve fixed your original work in tangible form (unless it’s work for hire, but ignore that.) Besides, most countries also have automatic copyright and most do not require registration to pursue in court. The USA is the outlier here.

Here I quote from the US Copyright Office, Circular One (bolds added):

Automatic copyright:

Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States to the authors of “original works of authorship” that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. An original work of authorship is a work that is independently created by a human author and possesses at least some minimal degree of creativity. A work is “fixed” when it is captured (either by or under the authority of an author) in a sufficiently permanent medium such that the work can be perceived, reproduced, or communicated for more than a short time. Copyright protection in the United States exists automatically from the moment the original work of authorship is fixed.

But, if you want to enforce in court, need, in the USA, to register (or at least to attempt):

Copyright exists automatically in an original work of authorship once it is fixed in a tangible medium, but a copyright owner can take steps to enhance the protections of copyright, the most important of which is registering the work. Although registering a work is not mandatory, for U.S. works, registration (or refusal) is necessary to enforce the exclusive rights of copyright through litigation.

And

In addition to establishing a public record of a copyright claim, registration offers several other statutory advantages:
• Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration (or refusal) is necessary for U.S. works.2
• Registration establishes prima facie evidence of the validity of the copyright and facts stated in the certificate when registration is made before or within five years of publication.
• When registration is made prior to infringement or within three months after publication of a work, a copyright owner is eligible for statutory damages, attorneys’ fees, and costs.
• Registration permits a copyright owner to establish a record with the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)4 for protection against the importation of infringing copies.
Registration can be made at any time within the life of the copyright. If you register before pub- lication, you do not have to re-register when the work is published, although you can register the published edition, if desired.

Note that you can register the work after publication, but limitations on getting damages. Oh, and see here if you doubt the need for registration being approved (or rejected) before filing suit: SCOTUS Ruling Provides Bright-Line Rule on the Registration Requirement for Filing Copyright Lawsuits.

You don’t even need to mark your work (the ©) for it to be covered by copyright - see USA Copyright Marks. That document recommends you do so, if for no other reason that people can find you if they want to license your work .

Note, beginning sometime in late 2021 the US Copyright Office will be opening a new ‘small claims’ Copyright Claims Board, to deal with infringement matters where damages will be less than US$30,000 - US Copyright Claims Board. But here, you’ll still need registration to bring claims, but:

Will I need to register my work with the Copyright Office before I bring a claim?

No. To bring a claim with the CCB, you will need to either (1) have a registration from the Copyright Office for the work(s) at issue or (2) have filed an application with the Copyright Office to register the work(s) at issue either before or simultaneously with filing a claim with the CCB.

This is different than what federal courts require. In federal lawsuits, you cannot rely only on an application. Instead, you need to have a registration (or a refusal) from the Copyright Office before you can bring your case. Additionally, federal courts allow you to bring a case based on an application that the Copyright Office refused, but the CCB will dismiss a case if the application is refused.

You always have recourse to letters and to DMCA claims - section 512 information:

Do I need to register my work with the Copyright Office in order to request a takedown?
No. A copyright registration is not required before sending a takedown notice. However, for U.S. works, a copyright registration is required before suing in court for copyright infringement.

Can you sue under other basis and not copyright infringement? Beyond my ken.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Again, You automatically have the US copyright. Remedies? The same as if you registered it.

We have this discussion every few months and people keep on posting this take. It's still wrong.

17 U.S. Code § 411 - Registration and civil infringement actions and 17 U.S. Code § 412 - Registration as prerequisite to certain remedies for infringement are the relevant parts here. (The name of the second second is a pretty strong hint.)

§ 411 says: "[with an exception relevant only to visual arts], no civil action for infringement of the copyright in any United States work shall be instituted until preregistration or registration of the copyright claim has been made in accordance with this title. "

So if somebody is ripping off your unregistered work, you're going to need to go register it before the court will even give you the time of day.

§ 412 says: "[with some more exceptions not relevant here] ... no award of statutory damages or of attorney’s fees, as provided by sections 504 and 505, shall be made for—
(1) any infringement of copyright in an unpublished work commenced before the effective date of its registration; or
(2) any infringement of copyright commenced after first publication of the work and before the effective date of its registration, unless such registration is made within three months after the first publication of the work."

And sorry, your last sentence is incorrect. I can write something, publish it, you can steal it, I can have my attorney write a cease and desist letter establishing my ownership and rights, and if you refuse, I can file a suit against you. And I would win. Expensive and win.

Expensive for you. Even if you can prove ownership, § 412 means that "winning" the case will cost you far more than you can ever get back. No statutory damages, no legal costs.

 

[LAHomedog]

Hey, I am no longer going to argue with you guys. Take what you think you know and run with it. There is no downside.

I have hinted -- sometimes not slightly, that I happened to be married to one of the top IP attorneys in the US. I'm merely posting what I know.

I am not looking to trump anybody, and I believe everyone should find their own comfort zone on this. It is your creative work and your intellectual property.

Go with God.

Whatever makes you comfortable and feels safe.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's interesting how confused people get about these copyright issues. It's a case where multiple things can be true at once:

1. It's true that under US law your copyright exists from the moment a work is fixed in a tangible medium of expression. That includes having it on your hard drive, or storing it in the cloud. Registration of the copyright is not necessary for the copyright to exist.

2. It's also true that you cannot go to federal court and sue somebody for copyright infringement unless you register the copyright with the copyright office. An unregistered copyright is, basically, a right without a legal remedy.

3. It's ALSO true that you can register your copyright after you discover the infringement. Then you can sue to enforce your rights in a story that was not yet registered at the time the infringement occurred.

4. And yet it's ALSO true that your rights and remedies may not be the same if you wait to register until after the infringement. For instance, you may not be entitled to attorney's fees and statutory damages, which are important weapons in a suit where actual damages may be difficult to prove (which almost certainly is the case where someone has ripped off a smutty Literotica story).

5. It's ALSO true that all of this may be of little practical help to a Literotica author who writes under a pseudonym and has no desire to take actions with the US Copyright Office or in federal court in a way that exposes that author's identity.

6. And yet, it's ALSO true that, if you contact the infringer and act smartly and aggressively, you may get the infringing work taken down, because most infringers and copyright pirates don't want to get exposed or face even a small risk of liability. I know this for a fact, because I did exactly this once, despite the fact I never registered the copyright or revealed myself. Somebody ripped off my story, I contacted them under my pseudonym, I called them on it, and the infringing story came down right away.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And that's why I put my stuff from here on Amazon and vise versa. I do have to change the titles slightly to avoid there check. I also put them on Smashwords. Whether they sell or not I don't care, I just have them for pay on about twenty sites that I can point to in a DMCA.

 

[KeithD]

I'm apologize for disagreeing with you, but that isn't the case anymore. It use to be, and a lot people believe it is, but if you are in the USA, any work that you create and make public, published, art on display, video, etc. nowadays under our copyright law you own the copyright automatically. It does not have to be registered.

Go read what it says on the U.S. Copyright site. You can't go to court without holding a formal copyright, which negates all of the "protected as soon as written" stuff in the U.S. context. Everything beyond that is bluff, although it's fine when that works. I know what it says and why the U.S. instituted this barrier after signing the Berne Convention in 1989 (they don't want the courts flooded with he said/she said cases)--because I helped write the provision.

I know its sneakily written. It was meant to be.

this nonsense has been going on for over thirty years now. Please check the U.S. Copyright site before you continue pushing this myth. The disinformation is a disservice to fellow writers.

 

[Ada Stuart]

I found out recently that someone stole over 20 stories from me and published them as their own on Amazon. I already filed a copyright infringement with Amazon, so hopefully it will get taken care of soon.

Has anyone else gone through this? Does Amazon give you your rightful royalties or (providing its worth it) do I need to get a copyright lawyer involved?

I also figured out that the person took the stories from literotica based on what they took and not my personal site or any others that I post on. Does anyone know if Literotica helps with these cases or are we on our own?

It happens all the time. Don't bother with laws or lawyers. Just contact Amazon and make a fuss: adding copyright claims, and hit all the "Report an issue" link below. My favourite is "inappropriate content"

It often helps to spread the word and your readers will do the same. Bottom line, it may take 1-2 weeks but Amazon usually removes it and the user too, if they realise that they've stolen more than one story.

Also, please tell us the name of the author that stole your stories (or add a link). That gives the rest of us a chance to go after them if our stories are stolen too. Usually, they grab around 200 at the time. I know some authors have given up fighting them, but for those that still bother, this helps to minimize the problem (I hope).

Still, when your works are published by others, have you considered publishing them yourself? Many of us publish to Amazon before posting stories here. And Amazon is often quick to ban stories they have received before.

Well, that also means that you might have difficulties publishing stories that were stolen (I have a few that Amazon refuse to accept and instead asks the thief to give their consent before I can publish my own stories, yeah right...)

And stories don't just get stolen from Lit. My entire catalogue from Smashwords is available on plenty of credit card (scam?) sites. The only way to avoid it completely is not publishing at all. Or publish them yourself and earn a little bit of cash at the same time.

 

[oggbashan]

I have been posting on Literotica since 2002.

Although I am UK based and therefore my copyright exists from first writing a story because of UK law and the Berne Convention I know (and knew) that because I was posting it on a free site I would have no legal redress if someone stole it and passed it off as their own.

I would have suffered no financial loss because I was giving it away free. If the person who 'stole' my work is outside Europe? My likelihood of finding them or bringing proceedings against the host site would be minimal and could cost me a substantial amount of money - for what?

My stories have appeared all over the internet. They have been translated into French, German, Spanish, various Indian languages but the most frequent are Japanese and Czech. Why? I don't know.

I just accept that they WILL be stolen...

 

[Bramblethorn]

Hey, I am no longer going to argue with you guys. Take what you think you know and run with it. There is no downside.

I have hinted -- sometimes not slightly, that I happened to be married to one of the top IP attorneys in the US. I'm merely posting what I know.

Knowledge is not absorbed through the dick, else the world would be a very different place.

This is an anonymous forum. Anybody can make whatever claims they want about themselves. This is why I posted links to the actual law - the one that severely limits your remedies for an unregistered work - rather than appealing to an authority nobody here can verify.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Knowledge is not absorbed through the dick, else the world would be a very different place.

Chuckled at that one, Bramble .

 

[mynameisben]

Well, whaddayaknow. I did a quick search and just found out one of my Literotica stories — the first one I searched on — has been lifted and posted on another website. It's going to really gall me if I find out somebody's making money on it.

I guess it's a much more rampant problem than I had realized.


Ben

 

[RejectReality]

If you really want to horrify yourself, take a sentence or partial sentence from early in your story with no person or place names ( because the less lazy thieves will replace those — sometimes to comical results ) and do an exact match search in Google for it. Try to choose something reasonably unique.

"crushed his can of beer with an amused smirk"

That's an example search line — quotes included. The quote marks mean to search for those exact words in that exact order.

That's from "Pole Skills" and immediately turns up 5 shady sites that have horked it as content for their ad and malware laden endeavors. If I click the link for showing all results, it goes up to 8.

Unfortunately, the way the Ebook places display their previews prevent this from finding those. It will only find the fly-by-night crap sites, but you'll likely be shaken by just how many of them steal everything that gets posted within hours of it going live.

The updated version of the story pages eliminate one way of stealing stories that's always been common practice, but no security measure can really stop them. Someone will always figure it out, and somebody will disseminate that information to other scumbags. It's a never ending battle to make it as difficult as possible for thieves without detrimentally affecting the experience of regular users.