Gender Question

[MarshallCS]

Hello

I'm currently going to a counselor about my intersex condition that i just found out about, and my continuing questioning of my gender. Since i was having trouble vocalizing my feelings, she suggested asking other this question.

What qualities/mannerisms/feelings are feminine? Since we know that having a hysterectomy or a masectomy does not negate ones femininity, what qualities make someone a girl/woman?


I'm hoping that some of your responses will help me with my own feelings

thanks

 

[ammre]

Hello

I'm currently going to a counselor about my intersex condition that i just found out about, and my continuing questioning of my gender. Since i was having trouble vocalizing my feelings, she suggested asking other this question.

What qualities/mannerisms/feelings are feminine? Since we know that having a hysterectomy or a masectomy does not negate ones femininity, what qualities make someone a girl/woman?


I'm hoping that some of your responses will help me with my own feelings

thanks

Argh. Unfortunatelly i can't answer you. I'm known as a "tom boy" I have a gay male friend and often he'll refer to me as the "man in the relationship" while i'll refer to him as "my woman". I hate the prescribed traits society has put upon men and women. And to make it all worse, I'm taking a psychology of gender class that's making me hate them even more.

Steriotypical female atributes are but not limited to:
Affected, Emotional, High-strung, Sentimental, Affectionate, Excitable, Meek, Softhearted, Appreciative, Mild, Sophistocated, Attractive, Fickle, Nagging, Submissive, Charming, Flirtatious, Prudish, Talkative, Complaning, Frivolous, Rattlebrained, Weak, Dependent, Fussy, Sensitive, Whiny, Dreamy, and Gentile
Based on Williams & Bennett, 1975 "Sex Roles"

erm, just curious, do you have AIS or CAH? You don't have to answer if you don't want to.
Unfortunatelly i know of one or two post "corrective" surgery people who still don't feel right simply becasue they havea mroe androgynious gender even if they have a more definitive sex.

 

[Weird Harold]

What qualities/mannerisms/feelings are feminine? Since we know that having a hysterectomy or a masectomy does not negate ones femininity, what qualities make someone a girl/woman?

Tough question. For me it's one of those "I know it if I see it" kind of issues.

The problem is, the answer varies from culture to culture and even region to region within a larger culture. In many cultures, a hysterectomy, mastectomy, or just menopause does negate a woman's femininity, because a woman's femininity is bound up in her ability to reproduce.

A recent news story about a woman who won a beauty contest sponsored by a "conservative men's club" revealed she was "born a man." Surprisingly, the club offered her an honorary memebership instead of being outraged and negating her win. I'd say for the members of that club, the standard was "if it looks like a duck..."

I think that's probably as close as I can come to explaining my viewpoint -- if it looks like a woman and acts like a woman, then it's probably a woman, regardless of what physical equipment she may or may not have.

 

[Lynxie]

I've always hated how many societies limit their definitions of gender based on physical attributes and genetalia. Gender is far more psychological than physical. In some cultures, there are dozens of genders... not just your usual male/female dichotomy.

In the US (and many other Western nations), we hint at variances in genders, but rarely acknowledge them seriously. If you don't fit into the stereotypical description of male or female, you're bound to face a certain degree of teasing and ridicule. Like Ammre, I grew up as a tomboy. While this is a common occurance among females, there was still pressure from my family and peers for me to change. My mother would constantly tell me to "be more ladylike" and my female friends didn't understand why I didn't want to wear skirts, or why I didn't write in the bubbly "girly" handwriting that they did. I used to wish that I'd been born as a boy, because I thought it would have made my life easier. Since then, however, I've come to terms with my female body (I would sometimes get depressed to the point of being suicidal whenever I had my period) and have stopped being embarassed about my non-stereotypical behaviors.

Do I consider myself a woman? Yes. However, I do perceive gender as being different for every individual. Just as the term "blonde" can mean a wide range of shades and colors, "woman" and "man" include a broad spectrum of masculine/feminine trait combinations.

 

[MarshallCS]

Thanks for the responses--- perhaps i should have asked that differently

What makes YOU feel like you are a woman?


And to answer the question--- from what i understand I have CAH. I'm just learning about this stuff-- so i don't know the ramifications of what that is going to mean from me other then this 2nd puberty that i'm going through right now


Thank you all again

 

[MarshallCS]

Thanks again for all the help---- if anyone else has anything to add it would be HIGHLY appreciated.

I feel so lost and confused and it seems like the counselor is really helping. I just want to be a proactive as possible with this.

I really appreciate it and thank you again

 

[Ricwilly]

I don't know what exactly your condition means but I would advise being yourself.
I don't know if this forum might get you more responses "GLBT Chatter
Discussion of non-straight sexuality and life. Find support and friends. "
If I'm off base suggesting a post there, I apologise. You're certainly welcome to post here, it just looks like there is more activity there.

 

[crysede]

Thanks for the responses--- perhaps i should have asked that differently

What makes YOU feel like you are a woman?

And to answer the question--- from what i understand I have CAH. I'm just learning about this stuff-- so i don't know the ramifications of what that is going to mean from me other then this 2nd puberty that i'm going through right now

My gender identity is definitely female, since that’s what I take myself to be. As for what makes me feel like a female, there isn’t anything concrete that I can point to, my femaleness is more of an ongoing dynamic: my own feelings about my gender reinforce the gender that other people assign to me, which in turn reinforces my feelings about my gender, and so on.

Frankly, there’s nothing that could be discovered about me that would make me question my gender identity: it’s totally irrelevant to me personally whether I have a Y chromosome, or an unusually large clitoris, or undescended testes, or what-have-you. None of that has anything to do with my gender: if it did, it would have made me question my female gender prior to my knowing about it.

What could alter my gender identity is if everyone else started identifying me as male, since part of the stability of my female identity lies in others acceptance of that identity. If, for whatever reason, people no longer accepted me as female, I’d probably come to identify myself as both male and female, or perhaps neither.

In generally I think our society gets far too worked up about “sex assignment” and “gender identity.”

 

[Private_Label]

Thanks for the responses--- perhaps i should have asked that differently

What makes YOU feel like you are a woman?


And to answer the question--- from what i understand I have CAH. I'm just learning about this stuff-- so i don't know the ramifications of what that is going to mean from me other then this 2nd puberty that i'm going through right now


Thank you all again

As others have mentioned here, some of the gender identity is wrapped up in the culture one grows up in or is surrounded by.

I have a number of traits that 30 years ago would be considered masculine. However my identity (sexual or otherwise) is female. Always has been; always will be.

Things I think of as feminine traits I have (for my culture)
Prefer cooperation to competition
Easier for me to expresss my feelings (than some men)

Things I think of as masculine (for my culture)
When I listen to someone's problem I try to provide possible solutions (the feminine side of this is needing to vent without wanting solutions)
I have a tendency to say what is on my mind instead of keep my opinions to myself.


There are a whole lists I could work up on this... but it comes down to this - who am I when I look at myself in my minds eye? Not what you look like in the mirror, but what do you feel yourself to be? All the parts of my personality are female, if I give them identities. Some are less feminine than others, but they all self identify as female. I just cannot see myself as male. (I can see myself thinner and better looking but that is another story)

So I guess I'd like to ask you... when you think about yourself in your own mind, regardless of how you appear in the mirror, regardless of how you are dressed, regardless of your physical body's genetalia, do you think of yourself as female or male?

 

[MarshallCS]

So I guess I'd like to ask you... when you think about yourself in your own mind, regardless of how you appear in the mirror, regardless of how you are dressed, regardless of your physical body's genetalia, do you think of yourself as female or male?

I totally feel like a female--- For the longest time i delt with people calling me gay and a freak (which i now unfortunately believe-- something else we are working on) because I didn't act like the other boys, and i always had to sit down to potty. My parents totally sheltered me from anything that had to do with sex or gender.

But I feel like a girl--- i feel like i think more like a girl (alot of what you said about your traits i have too, except i always want to beable to provide a solution for those who need to vent to me). I even dream as a girl.

I'm just scared of the ramifications of all of this. Its scary and a relief at the same time to find that there is a biological reason for all of this. Its also scary and a relief to be going through the physical changes associated with girls puberty. I just don't want people to not like me because of this. That is my biggest fear


thank you again
marshall

 

[~ Kit ~]

I first want to say, I wish you all the best. What a difficult experience you must face and have faced. It must take a lot of soul searching and courage.

What makes me feel like a woman:

Dresses, as a kid I was always in the dirt so my mom dressed me for that. When I got to college is when I started to enjoy wearing dresses, I feel like a woman when I wear a dress. I like to pick out the shoes etc. and feel good about my outfit.

I am not into a lot of makeup but do enjoy using a little eyeliner, lipstick and maybe a blush. I very much enjoy messing with my hair. I like different lengths and still have fun finding different ways to wear my hair.

I enjoy a night time bath or shower and then spending time moisturizing my skin (hint: works best when your skin is wet). I take my time (if I have it) and do those girly things like plucking and shaving. I think the appeal is the time and the luxury of spending some just on me.

I like reading good novels about women, I will sometimes in the winter read a few of the romance novels and have a cup of hot chocolate and be cozy inside. I enjoy feeling all mushy and dreamy while reading them.

I also enjoy lots of sports, participating mostly but do enjoy watching some too. I like the physical exertion and the company, especially if there are men participating too. I used to be on a softball team through the company I worked for, there were also ski trips etc.

I am typical when it comes to creepy crawly things and scream for help, but I'd never back down from fighting for family or friends.

I guess the things that most makes me feel like a woman is enjoying the differences between men and women. I like those differences, sure seems to work rather nicely.

I admire your courage, good luck. Oh and flowers definitely make me feel very womanly.

 

[Private_Label]

... I even dream as a girl.

I'm just scared of the ramifications of all of this. Its scary and a relief at the same time to find that there is a biological reason for all of this. Its also scary and a relief to be going through the physical changes associated with girls puberty.

We are scared of the changes we don't understand. Yeah, that describe puberty doesn't it. We all somehow managed to survive it though didn't we. And you will survive this change too.

I just don't want people to not like me because of this. That is my biggest fear

All I can say to that is... if this is the only thing people use to judge like and dislikes; then they are really small people, and you are better off without them in your life. You are trying to be true to yourself, and that takes a lot of strength to do. No matter what you eventually decide to do, if you follow what feels right in your heart and are certain it is the correct path for you, don't worry about what anyone else may think of you. Do what you need to do to be happy. Your true friends may not understand the whys of what you are going through, but they will try to give you the emotional support you need.

All the best wishes on your journey.

 

[Lilli Rose]

Have you taken any of the gender ID tests? That may help you figure things out a bit and while taking some of them you will be able to see what is considered male vs. female behavior. http://androgyne.0catch.com is actually a site for those whose gender is androgynous but half way down the opening page is a ton of links to gender tests, a number of which are the same as the psychologists will give you.

I wish I could say I don't understand your gender confusion but I do, I am neither male nor female and yet both. People don't know how to react to that. My sex is female and I look it but my gender comes though loud and clear in my personality and people just don't know how to react because "I" don't react as either male or female.