Gay Pride vs. Straight Pride

[Etoile]

I recently participated in a thread elsewhere about Gay Pride vs. Straight Pride. Some of the people felt that straight pride shirts were offensive, that they were poking fun at gay people. Others felt like it was just amusing. Other people thought pride anything was ridiculous, and we should all be ourselves. I'd like to see some commentary here; please read the other thread if you can (I made lots of posts to it and I'd prefer not to restate everything upfront). Thanks!

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I was born straight. Some of you were born gay, bi, or transgendered. I personally take no more pride in being straight than I do in my eye color. My understanding of gay pride is that it is necesary in a world that thinks you should be ashamed of being gay, but there isn't any legitimate parallel for straight people to draw on. A 'straight pride' shirt is silly at best, and more likely to be vaguely homophobic.

 

[Pookie]

I generally see most of those who are promoting "straight pride" paraphernalia as mocking the GLBT population. I see it as just another attempt by some to belittle us for even attempting to stand our ground as human beings. However, I don't have a problem with someone wearing a straight pride shirt who is just expressing pride in who they are.

I wouldn't be offended by someone just wearing a straight pride shirt. However, a number of warning signals would go off in my mind unless I knew the person well. But I wouldn't immediately judge them as a homophobe for wearing it.

 

[Queersetti]

Ideally, everyone should be proud of what they are. The question to me is; why does someone feel compelled to make a point of expressing their pride in a specific aspect of themselves?

When members of a marginalized group go out of them way to express pride in their identity, the basic motivation is usually a desire for empowerment. It is to become visible in a society that usually ignores them.

When members of dominant groups do so, however, the basic motivation, in my opinion, is usually to further their dominance at the expense of marginalized groups.

 

[simonedb27]

i think wearing a 'straight pride' shirt is just as silly as talking about 'reverse racism,' whatever that is.

'straight pride' is about trying to take away a mechanism of empowerment for the gblt community.

 

[thickspear]

h

 

[madmanmike]

i cant be proud.

im just a slightly abnormal white guy. if i go to a if i wear a shirt that says "white pride" or "im the proud parent of a white boy" then i get put into the racist KKK or neo nazi group. but "black pride" or "gay pride" or "jewish pride" dont. it sucks because i cant say im prode of what i am without being called a "sick nazi fuck" or a white supremisist.

 

[Angel]

Re: i cant be proud.

im just a slightly abnormal white guy. if i go to a if i wear a shirt that says "white pride" or "im the proud parent of a white boy" then i get put into the racist KKK or neo nazi group. but "black pride" or "gay pride" or "jewish pride" dont. it sucks because i cant say im prode of what i am without being called a "sick nazi fuck" or a white supremisist.

Really.

Try reading the posts above yours for an answer to your questions.

Also, I have quite a few pieces of jewelry and other items declaring my Pride in being American, Italian, and Irish as well as my Bi-Bracelet.

So I don't see where exactly you're limited on cultural pride.

 

[Etoile]

Re: i cant be proud.

im just a slightly abnormal white guy. if i go to a if i wear a shirt that says "white pride" or "im the proud parent of a white boy" then i get put into the racist KKK or neo nazi group. but "black pride" or "gay pride" or "jewish pride" dont. it sucks because i cant say im prode of what i am without being called a "sick nazi fuck" or a white supremisist.

There's a reason for that. Have you been paying attention? White males have not been systematically marginalized for hundreds of years, as blacks, gays, Jews, and other groups have. (For the record, I'm Jewish, but I'm not aware of a huge Jew Pride movement. Did I miss a memo?)

 

[Cigan]

Re: Re: i cant be proud.

There's a reason for that. Have you been paying attention? White males have not been systematically marginalized for hundreds of years, as blacks, gays, Jews, and other groups have. (For the record, I'm Jewish, but I'm not aware of a huge Jew Pride movement. Did I miss a memo?)

Don't tell them about the memos. They might start to suspect. They musn't know of the plan.

Um . . . anyway. cough. I personally think that the idea of pride in general the way it is used in gay culture is a little silly. I consider my homosexuality to just be a thing that is there, kind of like my unruly black curly hair. I'm not proud of my hair, but I'm also not ashamed of it. It's just there. So is the fact that I get weak in the knees over hard sexy guys instead of voluptuous sexy girls (and I am of the firm belief both are sexy. I'm an artist I must appreciate all beauty. It's just the later doesn't get the juices boiling so to speak). Anyway. It's late and I'm rambling now. So um. Yeah we're just here and damn the man save the empire.

 

[Prime]

I have never believed in taking pride for anything you are by birth or choice, or whatever, but rather only taking pride in things you have made yourself become.

myself for example, i used to be a scrawny 120lb guy with no muscle or anything. I have since gained a bit of weight, all very defined muscle, and have become a very competent martial artist. that is something i am extremely proud of.

I am not, however, proud of my sexuality, my race, hair color, etc, because those are things i am, not things i made myself become.

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

When I was little and didn't understand about repression and such I was very upset that my Black and Native American friend's had all this hertiage stuff and I didn't. I wished I was Black or Native American so I could have cool tribal songs, or clothes, or Black history month or something. Being White, I felt, meant I had no roots. (Black people had Roots, I saw it on TV!).

When I was a little older I learned that White's had history, but not a very happy one and I felt badly for being an American of German descent. Everyone was against me for being White, and being thrid gen German!

After I dug around in my family history I discovered my family missed a lot of the landmark bad stuff. Still in Germany till WWI we missed the whole slavery thing, and my Grandfather came over to the U.S. when his country (Prussia) was absorbed by Germany so we missed the Natzi party.

How does this relate?

Well, I grew up with little pride in my hertiage because it was so taken for granted. I could never really connect to Presidents Day and longed for something more speical than mainstream like my friends had. I wanted to be seen as speical, and my Black and Indian friends had that.

Maybe that Straight Pride stuff is something along the same lines for some folks (the rest being just jerks).

When the dominate culture is so overwhelmingly taken for granted that smaller groups have to fight to be given respect...some members of that dominate group may take it so for granted that they don't feel as if they have any uniqueness or anything to be proud of.

It's the whole "forest for the trees" thing.

So, when you see someone wearing a Straight Pride shirt or something instead of being insulted may I suggest a tiny bit of sorrow that they felt they needed such a shirt to appear unique?

(And now, on a lighter note, does this mean I shouldn't buy one to go with my friends Sally and June to the local gay bar? )

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

Post Script from PS:

I guess it's the difference between being a part of a speical intrest group and being a part of a no-one-is-intrested group.

 

[Angel]

Post Script from PS:

I guess it's the difference between being a part of a speical intrest group and being a part of a no-one-is-intrested group.

The problem with that is most people aren't as kind hearted as you are and want to wear things like that "Just Cause" or to purposely start trouble.

You're just too good of a person Maybe we'll make you an honorary straight-whitegirl pride shirt .

---


Prime, I agree to a point, but I also disagree. My family taught me to be proud of my heritage and my culture, which assists in preserving it - and I'll do the same for my children if I choose to have any, because I'll be diluting it - and I want them to know their background, where they came from and how we live. My boyfriend is Irish and Austrian Jew. (Jewish on his father's side) and I'm ItalioIrish with some American Indian thrown in somewhere. He's basically assimilated american and the only leftover thing from his heritage is the fact that he adores Jewish Deli food.


I loved the way the two big sides of my family entwined to create me and my own traditions. I'm proud of who I am, and I'd like to keep it that way.


I wish someone, somewhere in my bloodline had enough pride in their native heritage to retain that culture because I know nothing about it.

And that's MY white pride.

Black Pride and Gay pride have totally different reasons for exsistance, so I won't even go into it.

 

[Cigan]

Everyone was against me for being White, and being thrid gen German!

I would like to say that pride for your race isn't something that I necesserily look at the same way I see pride in accomplishments. But I do think there is a certain amount of pride you should hold in the accomplishments of those who have come before you. I am also part German. I am a mut so I'm part a lot of things, but the Germain was one of the 2 most talked about ones when I lived with my parents, and I am very proud to be of Germain decent. Yes the Nazi's happened, but you know what. The American's killed damned near as many Native American's as Hitler killed jews, homosexuals, etc. Hell the man who was responsible for the trail of tears is on our currency for god's sake. Not to mention we were allied with Stalin, not even going to touch that one. The German's did a lot of good things as well. I don't think you should be proud of being "straight" or "white". Because these terms don't mean anything culturally. There is no "white" culture or "straight" culture. However, I think you can take pride in the cultural accomplishments of your predecessors. So you can be proud to be of German descent, or Celtic descent, and use that pride as a motivator to try and help yourself live up to the greatest expectations of those who have come before you, and to try to work away the bad karma of the worst. The Asians have practiced ancestor worship for a long time, and in a way I think pride in what one is on that level serves a very specific social purpose. Being proud of being gay follows a different evolutionary line, but I am proud to be part of the culture that has risen from the muck and is still doing so, and that pride is part of what drives me to attempt to continue that rise until we are equal with everyone else.

 

[Angel]

Thank You Cigan, for saying something very similar to what I was trying to say, but saying it much more eloquently.

 

[Cigan]

Thank You Cigan, for saying something very similar to what I was trying to say, but saying it much more eloquently.

I actually hadn't read all the way down when I posted it. I read yours afterwords. I probably would have been more succinct if I had read yours first.

 

[simonedb27]

angel, cigan, and politesuccubus: you have all been very eloquent in your attempts to explain a very convoluted topic that is hard to talk about with the words that we have to use. good job!

i feel a little like polite succubus sometimes, or at least a little like the sort of person she was describing. sometimes i am sad that i don't have cultural roots and i know that the people that wear 'straight pride' shirts might feel the same way. however, i also know that wearing such a shirt would further marginalize a minority group and that is just not nice. the term 'gay pride' was invented by the community and bastardizing that phrase does nothing other than make fun of it and the community. i don't know of a phrase that would not hurt anyone. i was going to try to be clever about it and come up with one, but i am not good at that.

 

[Prime]

Angel, and my struggle with the english language continues. I can never be as eloquent in my words as i am in my thoughts. mainly because when i think of something, i think of the whole concept, but i have to then translate it into words, and by the time i am halfway through it, my mind is already on something else.

Basically, my last name is a french name, it is immediatly reconizable as a french name, complete with the capital 3rd letter. But I am not french, I have never been to france, and i have no real intention of going there any time soon.

I am American. I have no pride in it because it is where i was born. It is not something I had any control over, it is not something i chose. I can only have pride in what i do myself, not what others who are similar to me have done.

(I hope that was a little more thought out than my previous post, and I did not write this to begin an argument with angel, merely to clarify and elaborate on what i said)

 

[Netzach]

"White" is a trope. Angel understands it, all us caucasian people came from somewhere and hit someone over the head to take this land, or got here after the dirty work was done...but we came from somewhere and probably someone hated us at some point who had gotten here first.

There's my spectacularly dumb encapsulation of American history, but there is a point.

The whole point of "pride" was that for centuries....queer people were made to be *ashamed* of themselves. Shame and self hatred were the strongest tools used to oppress this paticular group because...well because westerners are especially freaky and paranoid about sexuality.

"Black Power" became a buzzword in the 70's because a sense of power was precisely what was denied, most keenly.

"Gay Pride"...same thing.

Reading what simone wrote, my feeling was always this, and I had a partner who was straight once, who was simply fabulous on the whole issue.

If you get us, if you love us, if you marry one of us, simply showing up to an event, risking people thinking you might BE queer and not feeling the need to correct the mistake out of a desire to distance....if you hang out in our bars and become part of our culture, you don't need the T shirt, you have something more precious and more wonderful to be proud of. You are doing the hard work of making the world a more tolerant and better place.

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

*scratches out "Straight Pride" t shirt and adds "Proud parent of a bisexual" t shirt in it's place*